40 replies to this topic

[ardbeg]

What makes them so good? In each race both Alonso and Massa starts much better than anybody else.

[rko281]

What makes them so good? In each race both Alonso and Massa starts much better than anybody else.

They've been having great starts for some years.


What I find great is how fast is Ferrari with full tanks, that's what I think makes a difference. Just look at Alonso in the opening laps comparing to some other cars. Yes, Alonso deserves the credit for the first laps, he's very aggressive and great at gaining positions, but the car seems great with heavy fuel loads.

[Kingshark]

Illegal launch control.

What is interesting is that Renault use to be very good at starts when Alonso was there. As Alonso left, Ferrari's starts went from average to mega.

Maybe Fernando took a little technical secret with him from Enstone to Maranello? I wouldn't put it past him.;)

[Jovanotti]

Maybe Fernando took a little technical secret with him from Enstone to Maranello?

That's what I was thinking, too, maybe he took some technician with him.

[Vesuvius]

Ferrari did something to their clutch/launch system was it in the middle of 2010 or 2011.Also it is not how they get off the line, they have massive traction. Also Mercedes got superstarts when Schumi was there.

[swerved]

What makes them so good? In each race both Alonso and Massa starts much better than anybody else.

If you watch the overhead replay it looks like Kimi got at least as good a start as Alonso yesterday in terms of putting the power down and building up speed, but got himself balked behind Vettel, I wish every Kimi start had gone like that in terms of traction etc, Ferrari are mighty off the line.

[HPT]

Illegal launch control.

What is interesting is that Renault use to be very good at starts when Alonso was there. As Alonso left, Ferrari's starts went from average to mega.

Maybe Fernando took a little technical secret with him from Enstone to Maranello? I wouldn't put it past him.;)

Could be coincidental but I remember McLaren has better starts than Ferrari in 2007 too when Alonso was there. In Malaysia, both Alonso and Hamilton starting on the dirty side P2 and 4 came out of turn 1 in P1 and 2, overtaking both Ferraris.

There were quite a number of other instances as well but I can't remember on top of my head.

[SUPRAF1]

Since Alonso is good friends with Webber, maybe he can give him some pointers...

[Zava]

Illegal launch control.

What is interesting is that Renault use to be very good at starts when Alonso was there. As Alonso left, Ferrari's starts went from average to mega.

Maybe Fernando took a little technical secret with him from Enstone to Maranello? I wouldn't put it past him.;)

but it took 1+ year lag to become mega. I think they changed settings for 2011 turkey or barcelona, up until that, it was a running joke on our hungarian board that "no worries, Massa is only 3 places behind Alonso at the start, he'll get him by the first corner", Alonso's starts in early 2011 were that bad.

what I found interesting this race, is that Alonso had a great getaway, when I saw that I thought he'll take the first corner in 2-3rd place, but he was still fifth come the corner, even though he was not blocked. what happened there, missed some shifts, or what?

[SCUDmissile]

Ferraris starts have been good since 2007. (Turkey, Brazil, Spain, Italy, France)

But not this good. Maybe it is their KERS?

Alonso used to have sh*** starts in 2010 and early 2011 though. It was in Spain 2011 that it all changed.

[Lights]

what I found interesting this race, is that Alonso had a great getaway, when I saw that I thought he'll take the first corner in 2-3rd place, but he was still fifth come the corner, even though he was not blocked. what happened there, missed some shifts, or what?

Missed slipstream of Mercedes.

[beqa16v]

Interesting topic
I dont think starts have anything to do with the powerband of the engine. Drivers cant use full power until arond 120-130kmh anyway. Clutch engagement can be a factor but there are few others which are maybe overlooked

first i think its differential settings. diffs are tuned for cornering not starts and different cars require different settings. Maybe optimal diff setup required for Ferrari is better for starts compared to other cars.

balance is also important. again chassis is tuned for specific tracks but for starts you need loaded rear. This means softer rear suspension compared to the front. Overal stiffness is also important, a softer sprung car will transfer more weight to rear wheels.

rear camber can also be a factor. more camber means more angle and less contact with the road on a straight line.

[Goron3]

but it took 1+ year lag to become mega. I think they changed settings for 2011 turkey or barcelona, up until that, it was a running joke on our hungarian board that "no worries, Massa is only 3 places behind Alonso at the start, he'll get him by the first corner", Alonso's starts in early 2011 were that bad.

what I found interesting this race, is that Alonso had a great getaway, when I saw that I thought he'll take the first corner in 2-3rd place, but he was still fifth come the corner, even though he was not blocked. what happened there, missed some shifts, or what?

Saved his KERS for turn 3.

[Ferrari2183]

but it took 1+ year lag to become mega. I think they changed settings for 2011 turkey or barcelona, up until that, it was a running joke on our hungarian board that "no worries, Massa is only 3 places behind Alonso at the start, he'll get him by the first corner", Alonso's starts in early 2011 were that bad.

what I found interesting this race, is that Alonso had a great getaway, when I saw that I thought he'll take the first corner in 2-3rd place, but he was still fifth come the corner, even though he was not blocked. what happened there, missed some shifts, or what?

He said that once he got midway down the straight he realised there wasn't an opportunity so he saved the KERS because he knew, due to watching the GP2 start, that overtaking on the outside through turn 3 was possible.

[HPT]

but it took 1+ year lag to become mega. I think they changed settings for 2011 turkey or barcelona, up until that, it was a running joke on our hungarian board that "no worries, Massa is only 3 places behind Alonso at the start, he'll get him by the first corner", Alonso's starts in early 2011 were that bad.

what I found interesting this race, is that Alonso had a great getaway, when I saw that I thought he'll take the first corner in 2-3rd place, but he was still fifth come the corner, even though he was not blocked. what happened there, missed some shifts, or what?

It was a combination of things. He said he got away very well but saw that he was running out of road to overtake the cars in front, so saved his KERS for the overtake on the outside as Ferrari2183 said. According to him, he also saw Kimi and Hamilton running wide and changed trajectory into T2, giving him a better exit and better traction into T3 where he made the double.

[kosmos]

The magic of it it's not only how good is the car in the mechanical side, but how good Alonso is in the first corners or even the first lap. I think Felipe has better starts than Fernando most of the time, but Fernando makes the difference in those first corners.

[MikeTekRacing]

The magic of it it's not only how good is the car in the mechanical side, but how good Alonso is in the first corners or even the first lap. I think Felipe has better starts than Fernando most of the time, but Fernando makes the difference in those first corners.

I don't know....if you look at the last race felipe was pretty good in the opening laps too..

[Ferrari2183]

I don't know....if you look at the last race felipe was pretty good in the opening laps too..

Massa impressed me in Spain during first stint. He just has to work on his tyre management, it's a bit erratic when compared to Alonso.

I fear Pirelli changing the structure and the compounds again will see Massa drop like stone again when the harder compounds are used.

[V3TT3L]

We have some hints about Ferrari gearbox/clutch advantage by the description of the technology transfered to road cars

The F1 dual-clutch transmission control software has been evolved and now
delivers more emphatic gear-shifts when the manettino is in the RACE, CT
OFF and ESC OFF settings. The new software features a strategy that utilizes
the energy built up during gearshifts by the twin clutches to provide positive
acceleration when the next gear engages. The extra acceleration is felt only on
up-shifts and is not available in the AUTO mode.

One of the important novelties on the 458 Italia is the introduction of the 7-speed F1 dual-clutch gearbox which guarantees faster yet smoother changes. The technology is based on the independent management of even and odd gears which are pre-selected using two separate input shafts. The gear shifting time (the overlap between the opening and closing phases of the two clutches) is zero and thus there is no interruption of engine torque to the driven wheels.

For all the advanced technological thought embodied by this powertrain, one of the most critical changes sounds the most anachronistic: a generator has replaced the alternator. This is a bit difficult to explain, but essentially, the generator decouples during acceleration to minimize drag.

http://wheels.blogs....s-up-cylinders/

Edited by V3TT3L, 13 May 2013 - 09:22.

[TheThirdTenor1]

Ferrari did something to their clutch/launch system was it in the middle of 2010 or 2011.

Alonso got a new clutch in Barcelona 2011. His start then was brilliant and since then, his starts have been very good and has rarely lost a position. Before then, his starts for Ferrari were quite mediocre.

Schumacher also had clutch problems when he first joined Ferrari in 96, but Ferrari quickly appointed Czapski (electronics guy from Benett0n) to sort out their starts. Czapski then returned to Renault, and of course their starts were once against mega around 2004/05. Not sure what he does now.

[redbarron]

Alonso works on his positioning into the first corners better then other drivers. I've noticed it for a long while now. He doesn't tend to pass on the first corner but positions himself well for the corners afterwards. Obviously the quick starts help get him into position.

[TheThirdTenor1]

The magic of it it's not only how good is the car in the mechanical side, but how good Alonso is in the first corners or even the first lap. I think Felipe has better starts than Fernando most of the time, but Fernando makes the difference in those first corners.

I agree. Off the line, Felipe is better. However Alonso usually positions himself very well for the first sequence of corners.

[BillBald]

Could be coincidental but I remember McLaren has better starts than Ferrari in 2007 too when Alonso was there. In Malaysia, both Alonso and Hamilton starting on the dirty side P2 and 4 came out of turn 1 in P1 and 2, overtaking both Ferraris.

There were quite a number of other instances as well but I can't remember on top of my head.

Until recently, pole in Malaysia was on the wrong side.

[Fontainebleau]

De la Rosa made an interesting comment while cars were finishing the formation lap and lining up for the start: he pointed out how Alonso was warming up the front tyres, while others seemed to warm up just the back tyres; he explained that, in his view, that was a sign of Alonso getting ready for the first turns while others were focusing on grip and traction for the start itself. I don't know if somebody here can shed some more light on this point.

[Alfisti]

Something is going on, both cars absolutely LAUNCH off the line race after race after race. Alonso has been smart and has been hanging wide at T1 so he can get on the power early for turns two and three but jesus off the line they are relentlessly epic, both of em.

[pingu666]

their launch control software they all have that there not ment to have but all do anyways is better

[yoyogetfunky]

Ferrari did something to their clutch/launch system was it in the middle of 2010 or 2011.Also it is not how they get off the line, they have massive traction. Also Mercedes got superstarts when Schumi was there.

This. They had some terrible starts in 2010 and really got down on that and by the end of 2010, their starts have been nothing short of amazing.

[Ramses1348]

Could be coincidental but I remember McLaren has better starts than Ferrari in 2007 too when Alonso was there. In Malaysia, both Alonso and Hamilton starting on the dirty side P2 and 4 came out of turn 1 in P1 and 2, overtaking both Ferraris.

There were quite a number of other instances as well but I can't remember on top of my head.

Those instances were all at the beginning of the season, then Ferrari made changes to its clutch setting and started having better starts (France I think was the turning point). Then in 2008 they carried that (just look at Rai start of Australian gp, it was Alonsoesque ;) ). So I'm not sure Alonso has anything to do with it to be honest, though he's making sure he uses those blinding starts 100%

[Afterburner]

It's all so simple.

Schumacher -> Benetton -> Flavio Briatore -> Something illegal -> Great starts -> Schumacher to Ferrari -> ??? -> Great starts
Alonso -> Renault -> Flavio Briatore -> Something illegal -> Great starts -> Alonso to Ferrari -> ??? -> Great starts

[MikeV1987]

Alonso @ start + KERS = lighting off the line,

[RealRacing]

Whatever it is, other teams should look into it. I think FA passing KR and LH made the difference for the win yesterday. It was the opposite for KR...

[Skinnyguy]

They´re not much better off the line than let´s say Lotus usually, it´s their high pace on heavy fuel load + superior performance on early parts of every stint what make them fearsome if you ask me. Both guys are consistently making up places all the time. It´s something really important when raw pace with enemies is close.

I don´t think this has anything to do with old Renault starts, that was all about weight distribution and smart launch control. Now weight distribution is very standarized and launch control is not even around. They simply have a mighty car in the conditions a F1 race happens to start now, heavy fuel load and used + coldish tyres.

[Skinnyguy]

De la Rosa made an interesting comment while cars were finishing the formation lap and lining up for the start: he pointed out how Alonso was warming up the front tyres, while others seemed to warm up just the back tyres; he explained that, in his view, that was a sign of Alonso getting ready for the first turns while others were focusing on grip and traction for the start itself. I don't know if somebody here can shed some more light on this point.

Everyone has target temps for tyres and brakes to get when they have to finally stop the car in the grid. They even change depending on how much time you´re expected to be stationary on your grid slot. If you´re already there, you don´t need to keep weaving, especially with tyres we have today. If you arrive the final sector and you´re not in the target, you have to work in whatever room you have left. Everyone warms all 4 tyres. If you ask them they´ll tell you "yes, yes, yes, I´m doing all the time"

[Fontainebleau]

Everyone has target temps for tyres and brakes to get when they have to finally stop the car in the grid. They even change depending on how much time you´re expected to be stationary on your grid slot. If you´re already there, you don´t need to keep weaving, especially with tyres we have today. If you arrive the final sector and you´re not in the target, you have to work in whatever room you have left. Everyone warms all 4 tyres. If you ask them they´ll tell you "yes, yes, yes, I´m doing all the time"

I would assume that De la Rosa would not have pointed it out had he not seen something different in Alonso's approach. After all, he is an experienced F1 driver, not just another TV broadcaster.

[Skinnyguy]

I would assume that De la Rosa would not have pointed it out had he not seen something different in Alonso's approach. After all, he is an experienced F1 driver, not just another TV broadcaster.

Don´t know, I missed that. What did he say?

If I get you right, and he said that only Alonso was weaving in the final part of the lap, you have the explanation why that can happen up there. You have a temperature target for the start for tyres and brakes, and you have to get close to that. If you don´t make it close enough, you have to work extra time in the very last moment. You´re even told how many burnouts+hard braking procedures you need to do.

Maybe you listened wrong and he said Alonso was harder than others warming up the fronts, because that´s well known. He used to lift a front wheel of the ground of those Renault cars even weaving at low speed. He was indeed very hard in his warming up procedures, I don´t know if he can still do that with current tyres.

[Fontainebleau]

Don´t know, I missed that. What did he say?

If I get you right, and he said that only Alonso was weaving in the final part of the lap, you have the explanation why that can happen up there. You have a temperature target for the start for tyres and brakes, and you have to get close to that. If you don´t make it close enough, you have to work extra time in the very last moment. You´re even told how many burnouts+hard braking procedures you need to do.

Maybe you listened wrong and he said Alonso was harder than others warming up the fronts, because that´s well known. He used to lift a front wheel of the ground of those Renault cars even weaving at low speed. He was indeed very hard in his warming up procedures, I don´t know if he can still do that with current tyres.

Can you access the Antena3 broadcast here http://www.antena3.c...rrera-completa/ ? My computer's loudspeaker is not working and I cannot listen to it and give the exact words, but I am pretty sure that his point was that others were warming up just the rear tyres for grip, while Alonso was warming up the front ones. He seemed to think that it showed Alonso's intent to do something on the first few turns.

[Seanspeed]

I dont know about that. I think a lot of swerving that gets done is pretty unscientific and largely "Well it might help....". If Alonso's approach indeed heated the fronts up better than everybody else's, it would be copied throughout the grid pretty quickly.

[anuroc]

Can you access the Antena3 broadcast here http://www.antena3.c...rrera-completa/ ? My computer's loudspeaker is not working and I cannot listen to it and give the exact words, but I am pretty sure that his point was that others were warming up just the rear tyres for grip, while Alonso was warming up the front ones. He seemed to think that it showed Alonso's intent to do something on the first few turns.

It's around the 3rd minute when he says that.

[discover23]

It's all so simple.

Schumacher -> Benetton -> Flavio Briatore -> Something illegal -> Great starts -> Schumacher to Ferrari -> ??? -> Great starts
Alonso -> Renault -> Flavio Briatore -> Something illegal -> Great starts -> Alonso to Ferrari -> ??? -> Great starts

I don't know.. Massa had pretty good starts in Ferrari even before Alonso joined. Remember Hungary 08?

[Afterburner]

I don't know.. Massa had pretty good starts in Ferrari even before Alonso joined. Remember Hungary 08?

It's a joke post.

[Skinnyguy]

Can you access the Antena3 broadcast here http://www.antena3.c...rrera-completa/ ? My computer's loudspeaker is not working and I cannot listen to it and give the exact words, but I am pretty sure that his point was that others were warming up just the rear tyres for grip, while Alonso was warming up the front ones. He seemed to think that it showed Alonso's intent to do something on the first few turns.

Good memory. He tells exactly what you said initially mate. My explanation for that is already posted.