70 replies to this topic

[kenkip]

Greetings all.I have been wondering how an African driver would be accepted in this modern version f1.Obviously there has been an African world champion,Jody Sheckter but that was in the 80's and times have changed.
I watched as Balloteli and Boateng were racialy abused in Roma yesterday and the question is,would a driver get the same abuse in Monza or at the Spanish Gp where they do have a history of this sort of behavior?
Also,if there are any Africans in this forum,would you support the said driver,even though he/she isnt of your nationality?I personaly would love someone to come and put the Alonsos and Vettels in their place but I fear he/she may struggle to get acceptance from the media and fans alike,especialy if he steps into a dominant car.What do you guys think?

[kenkip]

Apologies for the double post ,mods can you get rid of one?

[Absulute]

I feel that black athletes have no problems being accepted in other sports, so as far as the media is concerned, they'd be accepted into F1 as well.

Unfortunately there will always be a small group of narrow minded bigots who try to spoil it for the rest, but their opinion certainly wouldn't be in the majority.

[Jackmancer]

I think there where some Alonso "fans" in Spain insulting Hamilton with racist terms as well, in 2008.
http://www.f1fanatic...se-of-hamilton/

But this is a very small group of people that spoils it for them.
Personally I'd love more African drivers in F1, and would love to see them well.

I'm sure that if a driver is good the crowd will love them regardless of where they come from.

[teejay]

I couldnt care less where they come from, as long as they are fast and entertaining.

[Taxi]

This is formula 1. Not that other basic sport played with a ball and 22 guys. In formula 1 we welcome everyone from anywhere. Bring that guy from Cameroon. As long has he can turn 850 hp car fast around Silverstone he will be a star. And even if he's not that good, we'll make some friendly jokes on the photoshop thread but he'll be loved anyway.

Just look at the Indian drivers. Maybe they are not the best but their like our family. God I love this sport.

[corf]

You use the word African, name check a European and say things have changed since the 80's. I suspect you mean black as I don't think a white African would fit your post. Currently we have no black drivers, Lewis being mixed race is the closest and he has the odd issue most years.

I don't think a black African driver would have any additional issues compared to Lewis and but could expect issues in certain countries.

Your next question seems to ask "Would i support someone specifically because they are a black African?" The answer is no, I wouldn't support anyone just because of their skin colour.

[Myrvold]

Read a piece about women, black and homosexual in racing yesterday. Found it here

[Topsu]

Italian and Spanish people seem to be more racist than other European nationalities. A couple of Lewis' podiums in those countries have been hard to watch, I felt so bad for Lewis

Also, British fans have booed to Alonso, but I guess from purely racial reasons a black African should only worry about Italy and Spain. Eventually people will hopefully accept everyone.

[One]

No matter where he/she may comes from, one needs money-money-car_manufacturer-and-TV_channel_homeland in order for him to race F1... Terrible, but this cold mean higher chance for an African than a Greece...

[Imperial]

The one and only incident I am aware of (the abuse of Hamilton in Spain) was the result of a unique situation, where an extremely tiny minority of idiots (four or five of them) carried out some questionable action against someone who happened to be public enemy number one in F1 for Spaniards at that time.

This was at the height of the Alonso Vs Hamlilton carry on.

This in no way excuses what happened, but it is the reason why it happened. Note how the incident has not been repeated since.

Motorsport fans are in no way comparable to football fans, which is the reason Robin Webb drew so much criticism when speaking at the launch of the Superleague Formula he suggested that rival fans may have to be seperated at races to avoid any ugly incidents. Never have I ever seen fans in divided grandstands at any race, in any formula, anywhere in the world.

I don't believe a black African would have any issues.

[kenkip]

You use the word African, name check a European and say things have changed since the 80's. I suspect you mean black as I don't think a white African would fit your post. Currently we have no black drivers, Lewis being mixed race is the closest and he has the odd issue most years.

I don't think a black African driver would have any additional issues compared to Lewis and but could expect issues in certain countries.

Your next question seems to ask "Would i support someone specifically because they are a black African?" The answer is no, I wouldn't support anyone just because of their skin colour.

Okay,I do admit you caught me,I was not sure wether I should use the term 'white African' because I wasnt sure if it was politicaly correct!
Its great to see you guys would accept an indeginous driver but what if he pulls a 'vettel' and dominates for three years,obviously he will be disliked but I fear that unlike Seb who is European and white,he may not get the same kind of objective critism in some quarters.
Remember also F1 coverage here is rubbish,(no journalists travel to the races and there is almost 100% dependance on British based media and if he rubs them the wrong way it may get ugly.
Then again maybe I am being too pessimistic.

[One]

Okay,I do admit you caught me,I was not sure wether I should use the term 'white African' because I wasnt sure if it was politicaly correct!
Its great to see you guys would accept an indeginous driver but what if he pulls a 'vettel' and dominates for three years,obviously he will be disliked but I fear that unlike Seb who is European and white,he may not get the same kind of objective critism in some quarters.
Remember also F1 coverage here is rubbish,(no journalists travel to the races and there is almost 100% dependance on British based media and if he rubs them the wrong way it may get ugly.
Then again maybe I am being too pessimistic.

I hear a Black Americans' can be as racist as a White Americans.

[kenkip]

Read a piece about women, black and homosexual in racing yesterday. Found it here

Great read,thanks.

[darkkis]

Why not, but it's unlikely for Formula 1 to get an african driver. It's only because all the infrastructure suck in Africa. Not that many good race tracks out there? And how about racing series? They do not have such a racing culture such as Europe or North America has.

[Sin]

I think its weird to even ask this question, why shouldn't he? If he is good enough he would be accepted...

[nomi]

You see Bernie trying to push a female driver into F1, it's not so easy even being the powerful promoter of the sport. There has to be a push by the teams and the sport to want to open up the African market, i don't see it happening soon anytime. They're searching for a Chinese driver as China offers potentially massive market for manufacturers.

[One]

I think its weird to even ask this question, why shouldn't he? If he is good enough he would be accepted...

DISAGREE. very sensible to question.

But is a man/woman arrive,where ever he/she is from, at the track and slash the rest at the first race, he she wold be the person to talk to. The question remains if he/she has such equipment, meaning money... At the same time I am against letting a person race just because he/she is a minority that needs to be represented in paddock for publicity reason. A slow driver wold most certainly make bad publicity in F1 grid, accumulating frustration and make beginning for pointless discussions.

[kenkip]

Why not, but it's unlikely for Formula 1 to get an african driver. It's only because all the infrastructure suck in Africa. Not that many good race tracks out there? And how about racing series? They do not have such a racing culture such as Europe or North America has.

I disagree with you on this abit,yes the infrastructure is not compareable to the west,that much is obvious,but we do have aome great racing tracks around (Kyalami off the top of my head) and karting is quite popular in the southern parts of Africa.
Racing culture?Rally fans will remember the great and demanding Safari rally in Kenya.some of my best memories as a kid was going camping in the Rift Valley and mixing it up with the Masais while watching the rally cars tear about the sand and cheering them.Also,the Darkar rally was held in West Africa before the move.
I think maybe what is lacking most is organization,Bernie wants a GP in Capetown but the South African government isnt cooperating so its preety hard to bring a race there which is a shame because it would be a really colourful and unique event which all of you guys would enjoy.I can now just look at India with envy.

[LB]

Scheckter was champion in the 70's not the 80's

[One]

I disagree with you on this abit,yes the infrastructure is not compareable to the west,that much is obvious,but we do have aome great racing tracks around (Kyalami off the top of my head) and karting is quite popular in the southern parts of Africa.
Racing culture?Rally fans will remember the great and demanding Safari rally in Kenya.some of my best memories as a kid was going camping in the Rift Valley and mixing it up with the Masais while watching the rally cars tear about the sand and cheering them.Also,the Darkar rally was held in West Africa before the move.
I think maybe what is lacking most is organization,Bernie wants a GP in Capetown but the South African government isnt cooperating so its preety hard to bring a race there which is a shame because it would be a really colourful and unique event which all of you guys would enjoy.I can now just look at India with envy.

more logical if African goes to Dacar or WRC?

[undersquare]

Read a piece about women, black and homosexual in racing yesterday. Found it here

Yeah, I bet it would be quite similar between a woman/black/gay driver. It would be alright, just a small minority against them, as long as they 'behaved themselves' - if they acted like the perfect white male all well and good - Mo Farah, Jessica Ennis - it would all be sweet.

But as we've seen with Hamilton, every imperfection would be picked on and exaggerated. Things that JB, Kimi, Sebi get away with are totally different if Lewis does them - imagine if Kimi pulled a wheelie out of the track and got stopped by the police - how COOL baby!! Or if Lewis said 'get him out of the way' or pushed a photographer OMG .

So I think a black driver would be OK as long as s/he understood these rules. Also if ideally s/he wasn't too good .

What we really need of course is a brilliant dominant black lesbian driver with her multiple girlfriends in the garage, some a bit old, some a bit young, some white...

[froggy22]

Apart from a few incidents with Spanish fans, Lewis Hamilton hasn't really had any problems with race. On the whole, there really isn't much of a problem with racism in sport, only Football. Racism is made to look like a bigger problem in sport because of Football. Football fans aren't like fans in other sports, they tend to be more tribal and vocal. Football fans will verbally abuse anything and any one, so I don't think we can compare them to F1/Motorsport fans.

I don't think there would be a problem with an African driver at venues like Monza or Barcelona. Id say Lewis Hamilton has broken down any boundaries there would have been.

[revlec]

As long as you are(as a black African or woman) average, rubbish, or are not looking for excellence, nobody will care.

If you are above average and battle with the best in the sport (mainly white male), some problems may occur and many(not a few like peope here want us to believe) will struggle to acknowledge your talents and will look for all sort of explanations: spoon fed, overrated, only there because of his/her skin colour or gender, etc..

Obama, Hamilton, Balotelli, etc. It's the same story everywhere..;)

[Watkins74]

Apologies for the double post ,mods can you get rid of one?

Why not use the delete key yourself?

[noikeee]

May I be the one to make a really, really daft observation - drivers drive with helmets and suits on. So whilst a public figure that is African and/or dark-skinned and/or red-skinned and/or gay and/or a woman and/or Amish, will always attract a disproportionate amount of hate if he/she's a winner or a serious contender, it will attract less abuse from idiots on the stands than in sports where their looks are plain for all to see during the whole event.

Also, this is 2013. There are idiots everywhere sure, there will be idiots everywhere even by 2050, but this is not Alabama in the 1850s, civilization has evolved quite a bit since. And I may love football but the F1 fanbase does not have the same backwards mentality as football ultras tend to have, the problem is not comparable.

[Dzeidzei]

Greetings all.I have been wondering how an African driver would be accepted in this modern version f1.Obviously there has been an African world champion,Jody Sheckter but that was in the 80's and times have changed.
I watched as Balloteli and Boateng were racialy abused in Roma yesterday and the question is,would a driver get the same abuse in Monza or at the Spanish Gp where they do have a history of this sort of behavior?
Also,if there are any Africans in this forum,would you support the said driver,even though he/she isnt of your nationality?I personaly would love someone to come and put the Alonsos and Vettels in their place but I fear he/she may struggle to get acceptance from the media and fans alike,especialy if he steps into a dominant car.What do you guys think?

An interesting question and a dangerous one. Its politically correct to say that color doesnt have any effect, but then again.. Ive seen some African immigrants driving and based on that there is a difference. But that could be more cultural...

Dangerous waters here...

[revlec]

An interesting question and a dangerous one. Its politically correct to say that color doesnt have any effect, but then again.. Ive seen some African immigrants driving and based on that there is a difference. But that could be more cultural...

Dangerous waters here...

Did they have a legitimate driving license(some got theirs without turning a single wheel. The same happens illegaly in the southern part of Italy sometimes)?
Anyway I got mine in Africa when I was 18 years old after months of study of rules, car driving and car mechanics.

[froggy22]

May I be the one to make a really, really daft observation - drivers drive with helmets and suits on. So whilst a public figure that is African and/or dark-skinned and/or red-skinned and/or gay and/or a woman and/or Amish, will always attract a disproportionate amount of hate if he/she's a winner or a serious contender, it will attract less abuse from idiots on the stands than in sports where their looks are plain for all to see during the whole event.

Also, this is 2013. There are idiots everywhere sure, there will be idiots everywhere even by 2050, but this is not Alabama in the 1850s, civilization has evolved quite a bit since. And I may love football but the F1 fanbase does not have the same backwards mentality as football ultras tend to have, the problem is not comparable.

Id also add the fact that drivers cant hear the crowd when they're sitting in a screaming F1 car, so would be pretty pointless for the abuser to be shouting at someone that cant hear them or react to the abuse. That's one of the differences between F1 fans and Football fans, in football the player is pretty much standing in front of the fans and can hear the fans

[Spillage]

Not sure there would be a problem, to be honest. In terms of nationality, Balotelli is an European rather than an African, just like Lewis Hamilton. So if there were to be any problems, I'd expect to see them with Hamilton and mercifully in the past few years we haven't.

[undersquare]

Racism is a lot more than just abuse / not abuse. It's very like sexism in how it works.

[revlec]

Not sure there would be a problem, to be honest. In terms of nationality, Balotelli is an European rather than an African, just like Lewis Hamilton. So if there were to be any problems, I'd expect to see them with Hamilton and mercifully in the past few years we haven't.

He is still black.
And I'm sure I have read somewhere people complaining about Lewis not being British enough(when they talk about tax dodging they only target him for example) or Balotelli not being Italian enough(I live in Italy by the way).

[KiloWatt]

If he can take care of Mercedes tyres, I will worship the soil he walks on.

Edited by KiloWatt, 13 May 2013 - 11:08.

[holiday]

I watched as Balloteli and Boateng were racialy abused in Roma yesterday and the question is,would a driver get the same abuse in Monza or at the Spanish Gp where they do have a history of this sort of behavior?

The real problem is a social one and has nothing to do with individual players. Italy has been swept in recent years by hundred thousands of Black Africans immigrants entering the country illegaly from across the Med. You can see them hanging around in the inner cities in large crowds, completely disconnected to the local people and culture. The racist chants are only the - sad - symptom, the cause is the widespread feeling of the country being swamped by illegal foreigners.

Italian and Spanish people seem to be more racist than other European nationalities.

Sorry, but isn't such a generalizing comment itself racist?

I hear a Black Americans' can be as racist as a White Americans.

Sure, though chances are you won't read about it in the liberal press. But there are quite a few polls and studies by now that show that discriminative views among US minorities - Blacks, Hispanics, Asians - are actually more common than between Whites and other races. They just don't get the same media attention because they don't fit long-standing preconceptions.

Edited by holiday, 13 May 2013 - 11:06.

[tifosi]

Italian and Spanish people seem to be more racist than other European nationalities. A couple of Lewis' podiums in those countries have been hard to watch, I felt so bad for Lewis

My guess is that has much more to do with ravalry against Alonso/Ferrari then any specific racism. If/when Ferrari ever sign Alonso I am sure the Italien fans will embrace him with nothing but warmth.

[03011969]

My guess is that has much more to do with ravalry against Alonso/Ferrari then any specific racism. If/when Ferrari ever sign Alonso I am sure the Italien fans will embrace him with nothing but warmth.

I'm pretty sure they already have signed Alonso.

Doubt they will ever sign Lewis.

[chdphd]

Has Mehdi Bennani had any problems in the WTCC? I know it's not F1, but it's an FIA World Championship and he's African.

[revlec]

The real problem is a social one and has nothing to do with individual players. Italy has been swept in recent years by hundred thousands of Black Africans immigrants entering the country illegaly from across the Med. You can see them hanging around in the inner cities in large crowds, completely disconnected to the local people and culture. The racist chants are only the - sad - symptom, the cause is the widespread feeling of the country being swamped by illegal foreigners.

An immigrant is illegal not only because he crosses the border illegally but also when he loses his right(so he came in the country legally) to stay here but decides to do so anyway.
_

In Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Bruxelles, Vienna, London, you will first see the black because they are different.

http://it.wikipedia....o_e_provenienza

_
Anyway there was a report done years ago by the OECD(the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) about illlegal immigrants and the ratio illegal immigrants/inhabitants of Italy were not that different from other countries.

Germany 0,73% of the popolation are illegal immigrants,
Italy 1,09%
Greece 2,69%
Spain 0,94%
Autria 1,11%
USA 3,94%


Of course it's an estimation, but you get the idea.

http://tg24.sky.it/t...ari_italia.html
So to conclude, the problem is their skin colour.

Big big sorry for going off topic.

Edited by revlec, 13 May 2013 - 12:01.

[fastdriver]

Greetings all.I have been wondering how an African driver would be accepted in this modern version f1.Obviously there has been an African world champion,Jody Sheckter but that was in the 80's and times have changed.
I watched as Balloteli and Boateng were racialy abused in Roma yesterday and the question is,would a driver get the same abuse in Monza or at the Spanish Gp where they do have a history of this sort of behavior?
Also,if there are any Africans in this forum,would you support the said driver,even though he/she isnt of your nationality?I personaly would love someone to come and put the Alonsos and Vettels in their place but I fear he/she may struggle to get acceptance from the media and fans alike,especialy if he steps into a dominant car.What do you guys think?

If I may ask, are you African?

[revlec]

Back to the topic, where I grew up(a black African country) there was a kart track near home.
Yes it was expensive but the structure was there. I didn't have the money to try it though.
That was 10 years ago, so I guess(I hope) some few tracks have been built since then.
_

So it will be a good thing to have a competitive Kart series(you will find drivers if it's cheap cheap.Plenty of children want to play and their parents will cause no problems) where you could see who can drive or not. Then let them try your simulator(or openwheel car), finally transfer them here...

When I think about it, it's very easy to build a kart track in Africa(Plenty of space, materials are cheap, labour cost is low).

Edited by revlec, 13 May 2013 - 12:33.

[kenkip]

If I may ask, are you African?

Yea,Kenyan to be specific,I actualy thought it was obvious hehe..
I always feel like we miss out on this great sport with no race,I was so envious of India when they went there!

[revlec]

Yea,Kenyan to be specific,I actualy thought it was obvious hehe..
I always feel like we miss out on this great sport with no race,I was so envious of India when they went there!

You already have a vibrant economy and last time I checked some guys have started their car companies in Kenya!!!
Kenya and South Africa would be the ideal candidates to create a series, but if you expect an African driver to come out of nothing it will be difficult.

The wise thing to do would be to create a racing series(I will go with the Karts) where you could promote the best. I have some ideas but I am years from there.
By the way, I am Cameroonian and discovered F1 thanks to Schumacher.

Edited by revlec, 13 May 2013 - 12:42.

[kenkip]

Back to the topic, where I grew up(a black African country) there was a kart track near home.
Yes it was expensive but the structure was there. I didn't have the money to try it though.
That was 10 years ago, so I guess(I hope) some few tracks have been built since then.
_

So it will be a good thing to have a competitive Kart series(you will find drivers if it's cheap cheap.Plenty of children want to play and their parents will cause no problems) where you could see who can drive or not. Then let them try your simulator(or openwheel car), finally transfer them here...

When I think about it, it's very easy to build a kart track in Africa(Plenty of space, materials are cheap, labour cost is low).

You are right,but as I said without organization its preety imposible because that is primarily what scares the investors and sponsors away.
I think many of you guys will be suprised with how many tracks are available around,I dare say maybe more than some developed countries.
The talent is definatley there,both male and female but its difficult to get into the single seaters in Europe especialy in this era of pay drivers.

[Massa]

Italian and Spanish people seem to be more racist than other European nationalities. A couple of Lewis' podiums in those countries have been hard to watch, I felt so bad for Lewis

Also, British fans have booed to Alonso, but I guess from purely racial reasons a black African should only worry about Italy and Spain. Eventually people will hopefully accept everyone.

BS. Your post is a shame. And i'm french.

[revlec]

You are right,but as I said without organization its preety imposible because that is primarily what scares the investors and sponsors away.
I think many of you guys will be suprised with how many tracks are available around,I dare say maybe more than some developed countries.
The talent is definatley there,both male and female but its difficult to get into the single seaters in Europe especialy in this era of pay drivers.

Why do you mean by "organization"? Bernie?
Briatore already live in your country. Go there and have a few words with him..
_

I have no doubt the talent is there, but it should be developed, so I will go with the kart first.

Edited by revlec, 13 May 2013 - 12:48.

[kenkip]

You already have a vibrant economy and last time I checked some guys have started their car companies in Kenya!!!
Kenya and South Africa would be the ideal candidates to create a series, but if you expect an African driver to come out of nothing it will be difficult.

The wise thing to do would be to create a racing series(I will go with the Karts) where you could promote the best. I have some ideas but I am years from there.
By the way, I am Cameroonian and discovered F1 thanks to Schumacher.

Yaaaay!finaly some company and he/she is a Schumacher fan!Cant ask for more!
your post actualy reminded me of something,cant believe I forgot to post this here,in the recent elections held here some guy actualy promised us formula one race!not just that but it would be held in the next 5 years!
Anyway he is in power so hopefuly he is already in talks with Bernie.

edit:By organization I mean the government and respective motorsport federations,too many wrangles.

Edited by kenkip, 13 May 2013 - 12:58.

[kenkip]

Why do you mean by "organization"? Bernie?
Briatore already live in your country. Go there and have a few words with him..
_

I have no doubt the talent is there, but it should be developed, so I will go with the kart first.

Try watching the karting series in South Africa,they bring it on Supersport every other weekend,some very fast drivers there.

[revlec]

Yaaaay!finaly some company and he/she is a schumacher fan!Cant ask for more!
your post actualy reminded me of something,cant believe I forgot to poast this here,in the recent elections held here some guy actualy promised us formula one race!not just that but it would be held in the next 5 years!
Anyway he is in power so hopefuly he has already in talks with Bernie.

Well, I will not trust politicians too much.. I hope to be wrong.

Africa is an untapped territory with 50+ different countries.
The problems are corruption and political stability.
The next big series will start there. I have no doubt about it(Bernie already owns everything in Europe and will not have enough time for Africa). But first, the mechanical industry should mature( a long long long way to go).

I am a he.

Edited by revlec, 13 May 2013 - 13:33.

[GodHimself]

No, I wouldn't accept an African driver. I wouldn't accept a black/female/gay/white/brown/orange/cyan driver, just because he/she was black/female/gay/white/brown/orange/cyan. I don't give a heck as long as they are up for the job. Asking such question is a bit racist in my opinion.

[JaredS]

An interesting question and a dangerous one. Its politically correct to say that color doesnt have any effect, but then again.. Ive seen some African immigrants driving and based on that there is a difference. But that could be more cultural...

Dangerous waters here...

Ignorant post of year award goes to you sir. You win!

edit: By the way, go to Italy and watch how they drive or ride. Maniacs. Yet Italy is very highly represented in top level motorsport.

Edited by JaredS, 13 May 2013 - 14:58.