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New Pirelli tyres and DRS - a disaster for F1 and racing? Part 2 [merged]


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#1 MightyMoose

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:39

As discussed on the original topic, please continue here.

If you wish to see what was discussed prior to closing of the original, click this link -->>> http://forums.autosp...w...&start=4000

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#2 UPRC

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:42

Gotta say, the fact that commentators are criticizing the sport and its tyres on live television now says a lot. I doubt FOM wants commentators telling casual/uninformed viewers that F1 basically sucks at the moment because the tyres are awful.

#3 Cavani

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:43

does the new topic has to be named "Disaster for F1 and racing" ? is it really a "disaster" :lol: ?

#4 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:43

Yes because this thread has always been a place for respectful, mature discussion.

As for someone saying that GP2 is getting closer to F1 times since Pirelli came in:

2010 Spanish GP F1 pole time: 1:19.995
2010 Spanish GP F1 fastest lap: 1:24.357

2010 Spanish GP GP2 pole time: 1:27.727
2010 Spanish GP GP2 fastest lap: 1:31.754, 1:31.229


2013 Spanish GP F1 pole time: 1:20.718 ROS 1:21.218 ALO
2013 Spanish GP F1 fastest lap: 1:26.217

2013 Spanish GP GP2 fastest lap: 1:28.706
2013 Spanish GP GP2 fastest lap: 1:34.352, 1:33.727

You missed it. The F1 FL is 3,4 seconds faster in 2010 than the pole time of GP2. In 2013, the F1 FL is only 2,5 seconds faster than the GP2 pole time. And the F1 FL is a freak of nature these days. Often only 2-3 laps are fast and then they resolve to 2-3 seconds/lap slower times.

Yes, that's a wild guess alright. If we count the difference in the total race time, and take away the extra pit-stops, how much time is left? That really is a badly thought out argument, no offense. It falls flat on the face of the numbers immediately. The total race time difference is a few pages back, take a look.

Secondly, the final stint is a horrible comparison unless you pick someone who is actually trying to chase somebody. Otherwise, even in years before, teams turn down the revs and preserve the car. It's only logical.

The extra pit stops are needed, otherwise the race time would even be longer to cancel out a pitstop. They need to drive even slower if they want fewer pitstops.

Last year at the start of the season we had a very similar situation with some people conplaining.. After the halfway point, the teams had already figured out the tires and some teams were finishing races with just one stop, the FiA was not too happy about this and they asked Pirelli to make tires for this year that would degrade faster - this is what we have today.. Today they went a little too far with one more stop than what they had anticipated.. Maybe it had to do with the circuit, but the other 4 races we've had 2 and 3 pit stops which is exactly what they said they would be delivering.


The teams drive slower for fewer pitstops, then Pirelli makes the tires softer to increase the number of pitstops. Continue like this and you have chewing gum tires in 2015.



When the tires could last, half the field would be out of fuel due to increased speeds. :p

#5 Cavani

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:48

best dry races last season which weren't influenced by tyres too much were "abu dhabi and usa"

#6 mattferg

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:51

After seeing Barcelona, I've completely changed my mind about the tyres. Barcelona was boring as hell AND the tyres sucked. Seeing incidents like Vettel just casually letting the guy behind him in both the race and WDC past made me sick.

And for Hembrey to claim he's doing it just so Red Bull can't win is sickening. It isn't just Red Bull who are suffering. Mercedes, McLaren, Williams are all suffering performance due to the tyres, and teams like TR, FI and others are having tyre delaminations... So they're suffering too. Pathetic comment from Hembrey.

Some good tyre variance is great for racing, but when there's f-all overtakes, tyres and pit stops deciding everything and one or two teams sailing off into the distance not due to performance, but tyre luck, it ruins F1. Grosjean might've been P4 if not for his issues.

Also, Pirelli is Italian, and uses a test car which a current one is based off. Notice who's getting tyre advantage this year? Hmm.

I want to see the crazy fast Red Bull and Mercedes fighting it out, Lewis and Vettel going at it like crazy. Can't see that when he slides from 2nd to 12th.

#7 Masenco

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:55

I think it's crazy that teams are unable to battle for position on the track and are having to adopt the mentality that they should all run at their own pace- this is F1 for gosh sake!
You might aswell give them each their own lanes to drive in. and the end positions are given in order of the fastest race times.
Its a joke when a driver asks his team whether he should be defending his position near the end of the race.

It's even more of a joke when a driver tells his team that he can't drive any slower even if he wanted to.

F1 has always been synonymous with pushing the limits, of both on-track driving and off-track engineering possibilities; we need to find a way of making races interesting without slowing down the drivers.

Oh, and one more thing. Did anyone notice how Ross Brawn said that in qualifying his drivers are being very smart by saving the tires in sector one and two and using them more in sector three when they can get more time? How freaking embarrassing is that when drivers find that the fastest way to do a qually lap is by taking it easy for cartain parts of the track?!

I've been pretty calm on the matter so far, but now it's ridiculous. We need to get some true racing back.

Edited by Masenco, 13 May 2013 - 13:01.


#8 EvanRainer

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:00

Pirelli had absolutely no reason to change the construction of the tires from last year.

Tinfoil hat
You know, other than to make sure Ferrari is more competitive ;)
/Tinfoil hat

#9 prty

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:00

After seeing Barcelona, I've completely changed my mind about the tyres. Barcelona was boring as hell AND the tyres sucked. Seeing incidents like Vettel just casually letting the guy behind him in both the race and WDC past made me sick.

And for Hembrey to claim he's doing it just so Red Bull can't win is sickening.


Oh, you got it wrong. He meant that changing the tyres would make Red Bull win. There is a big difference, and it's the only fair thing to do.

It isn't just Red Bull who are suffering. Mercedes, McLaren, Williams are all suffering performance due to the tyres, and teams like TR, FI and others are having tyre delaminations... So they're suffering too. Pathetic comment from Hembrey.


So, still, there are teams which are not suffering that much, right? They must have done something well. It's not their problem that others couldn't.


#10 2ms

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:05

Yeah, every time Pirelli changes them they get worse instead of better. Except maybe for Ferrari and Kimi.

#11 Coops3

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:06

Oh, you got it wrong. He meant that changing the tyres would make Red Bull win. There is a big difference, and it's the only fair thing to do.



So, still, there are teams which are not suffering that much, right? They must have done something well. It's not their problem that others couldn't.


No, it's ours!

#12 michal2009b

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:08

Yeah, the race time was only 7 seconds higher than last year...

However looking at pole time in 2012 (1:21.7) on softs and 2013 (1:20.7) on mediums you can see that this year's cars are much faster on raw pace of course. And not forget that last year's and 2011's quali times were achieved with DRS open whatever you want, another 5 tenths gained. What's the conclusion? A 2012 car with 2013 tyres will finish a lap down on the same 2012 car with 2012. Now you can say how much they are conserving tyres :)

2013 Bahrain time: 1h36.00.4
2012 Bahrajn time: 1h35.10.9

But not forget that drivers were running on the harder compounds this year and the pole times were very similar. In a simplier words, there was a tyre conservion in Bahrain, but yesterday it was much more of that. And I'm saying this as a Ferrari fan since 2006 :)

Edited by michal2009b, 13 May 2013 - 13:09.


#13 Classic Ferrari

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:08

Also, Pirelli is Italian, and uses a test car which a current one is based off. Notice who's getting tyre advantage this year? Hmm.

This is getting pathetic :rolleyes:

#14 EthanM

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:11

Oh, you got it wrong. He meant that changing the tyres would make Red Bull win. There is a big difference, and it's the only fair thing to do.



So, still, there are teams which are not suffering that much, right? They must have done something well. It's not their problem that others couldn't.


No he's said it before it's not the first time, and the last time he said it was very clearly stated that if we hadn't changed the tyres Red Bull would be lapping everybody. Search the other thread, it was reported.

Pirelli are supposed to provide the control tyre. Not to try and influence competition.

The second part of what you saying is just a matter of opinion. With 3 years of tyre data when you change the tyre is a team doing "something right" if it's performing while others aren't or were they simply doing "something wrong" and you just moved your control tyre to meet them?

#15 boldhakka

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:11

@prty, what are your thoughts about the long term, how would you like these tyres for the next decades? Yes, let's say we keep these tyres unchanged for this season, thats fine. But what about next season and either season after that?

#16 BorkoF2012

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:14

There were also 4 pit stops in 2011 when Vettel won in Barcelona. Why didn't Mateschitz say F1 isn't about racing anymore back then?

#17 discover23

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:19

Gotta say, the fact that commentators are criticizing the sport and its tyres on live television now says a lot.

not universally..


#18 BenettonB192

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:19

F1 is in such a pathetic state thanks to the tyres. To see guys like Vettel and Hamilton cruising for a whole race distance to preserve tyres is just sad.
The goal for building an F1 car used to be to make it as fast as possible, find downforce where ever possible (remember the look of the 2008 F1 cars?). Now we are at a point where a team reduces downforce purposefully to make its car slower so the tyres hold a bit longer. What a complete joke.
Hembreys comments only make me angry at this point. He seems completely out of touch with what F1 is about. Good for him, all the world speaks about his brand, Pirelli.
That it only serves to hurt the image of their brand doesn't seem to bother him. I certainly wouldn't purchase them for my car. Perhaps he's a firm believer in the phrase "there is no such thing as bad publicity".

#19 SpaMaster

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:21

From the previous thread
krea

That's kind of funny.
Vettel's Red Bull was in Bahrain in the small window where the tires were working and he won without any problems. It's all about if the team can make the tires work and not about some weird old school bullshit.

The only reason you don't hear any complains it that the Ferrari and Lotus do have an adventage with these tires.


It is not all about a team can make tires work. Ferrari and Lotus have distinctly proved to be better at retaining tyre pace for long periods compared to Red Bull. That compliments a very intellectual feel-based driving. That's why Alonso and Raikkonen have excelled.

rasul

I'm sorry, but this is highly illogical, to say the least. So Mark Webber isn't an old school driver? Or Button? Yet they have been having as much problem as the "lesser drivers of the present generation." What happened in Bahrain, then? Why the lesser driver of the present generation won the race, managing the tyres better than the superior old school driver? Alonso and Kimi aren't complaining because the tyres benefitting their teams, simple as that.

No, Mark Webber is definitely not in that category. I am talking about old school-like champion drivers. Button is may be halfway there. Button could drive very smoothly. But he is not the Professor Alonso or Raikkonen is. The level of intellect these guys have displayed is much more than conserve tyres and go faster or changing condition punting Button does. They can mentally imagine the race and their exceptional performance is down to how well they feel the car and the tyres. It is not just smooth driving.

boldhakka

Umm. He doesn't seem to realize that things can be judged on principle, without having to look at outcomes. Why is a component supplier discussing outcomes. What in the world is going on here.

Is the fact that Red Bull would benefit the right reason to not change the tyres? There may be legit reasons to not make changes to the tyres, but this isn't one of them. Thats a kindergarten level argument from PH and designed to sway emotions, not a well-thought-out and rational explanation for avoiding an action.


That's not what he said. He says what would happen if the tyres are changed. He is saying 'You are all complaining now, but be aware of what the situation would be if the tyres are made nicely durable'. Would people be more happy with Red Bull running away with championship?

Edited by SpaMaster, 13 May 2013 - 13:51.


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#20 Masenco

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:22

There were also 4 pit stops in 2011 when Vettel won in Barcelona. Why didn't Mateschitz say F1 isn't about racing anymore back then?


Because back then you could still race. Visibly you saw drivers battling it out, and putting the pedal to the metal when required. Now, driver's cannot attack or defend in the fear that the tires will go off. And the only time they can put the pedal to the metal is in their in-lap.

#21 Sakae

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:27

TheF1Times: (Furious) Mateschitz met with Ecclestone right after the race for one hour. (We assume to discuss tires).

#22 EvanRainer

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:29

The 2011 example is funny and proves EXACTLY that the problem is not overall degradation. Also Vettel has proved that his excellent preserving tyres smooth driving wise.

Ferrari and Lotus were better last year at preserving tyres as well. The Lotus is simply great at that, it's a car characteristic and no one is crying about it.

And it's not like RBR is complaining because they have a car with shitty rear traction that overheats the tyres and they demand tyres that last them longer. They have more of a problem with the front because Pirelli created tyres that can't take what should be normal loads.

#23 boldhakka

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:32

TheF1Times: (Furious) Mateschitz met with Ecclestone right after the race for one hour. (We assume to discuss tires).


Yes! Awesome. The drivers have had their say, and now the TV pundits are having at it too, it's time the team owners got together and bring back racing. I hope DM applies massive pressure.

#24 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:34

Im a bit on crossroads on this one.

Yes it was pathetic to see great drivers being told to drive slower otherwise the tyres fall off and I think for this season Pirelli - on request it has to be said - has made tyres a bit too agressive on wear, and its causing downright dangerous situations.

On the other hand teams that tested the 13 tyres and figured its better to design a car that is as kind as possible to its tyres, with various systems geared towards that - Ferrari and Lotus - are being hugely disadvantaged if Pirellis suddenly decides to change tyres mid season.

That horrible, horible Ed Foster had a point when he asked after race one why not al teams went for a tyre friendly design.

So we have 2 scenarios:

1. change tyres: advantage all the teams that cannot keep tyres in one piece, Red Bull, Merc, McLaren
2. Dont change tyres: keep advantage the teams that can manage the tyres: Ferrari, Lotus, Force India

I hate mid season changes because it pollutes the competition. Eventhough im a Red Bull fan, im inclined to say dont change the tyres, and give all the teams a full week of testing on a hot, abrassive track to get on top of any tyre woes. Maybe even 2 3 day tes sessions to give time to learn stuff from one, design new stuff for the next session. But stop the bullshit politics of mid season changes. this is exactly why big manufacturers get chased away from F1.

#25 pingu666

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:34

the tyres have got softer each year, roughly a step?
I suspect theres already near the limit of tyre saving from car setup/inherient ability of the car. hence all thats left is to drive slower :(

#26 Slackbladder

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:38

TheF1Times: (Furious) Mateschitz met with Ecclestone right after the race for one hour. (We assume to discuss tires).


I wonder I Red Bull could ever think about withdrawing from F1 (not in the short term of course, but divest themselves over time), if they're there for brand promotion, then there comes a point that brand begins to be affected, either by poor results, or by being attached to a sport which is getting bad press.

They could pull out Toro Rosso for example quicker than Red Bull no doubt, especially if they don't have any expected young drivers to move up to the A-team.

#27 discover23

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:44

Visibly you saw drivers battling it out, and putting the pedal to the metal when required. Now, driver's cannot attack or defend in the fear that the tires will go off.

this is becoming a myth..

#28 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:45

I wonder I Red Bull could ever think about withdrawing from F1 (not in the short term of course, but divest themselves over time), if they're there for brand promotion, then there comes a point that brand begins to be affected, either by poor results, or by being attached to a sport which is getting bad press.

They could pull out Toro Rosso for example quicker than Red Bull no doubt, especially if they don't have any expected young drivers to move up to the A-team.


Or, he could conclude what other big teams have done in the past (BMW, Honda, Toyota, Ford, etc) after constant rule changes, mid season or not, that were designed and have hampered Red Bull since 2010: that F1 is a snakepit not worth throwing so much time and money on. Hembery publicly saying if he changes the tyres there will be only one winner says a lot, if not everything.

#29 pdac

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:48

After seeing Barcelona, I've completely changed my mind about the tyres. Barcelona was boring as hell AND the tyres sucked. Seeing incidents like Vettel just casually letting the guy behind him in both the race and WDC past made me sick.

And for Hembrey to claim he's doing it just so Red Bull can't win is sickening. It isn't just Red Bull who are suffering. Mercedes, McLaren, Williams are all suffering performance due to the tyres, and teams like TR, FI and others are having tyre delaminations... So they're suffering too. Pathetic comment from Hembrey.

Some good tyre variance is great for racing, but when there's f-all overtakes, tyres and pit stops deciding everything and one or two teams sailing off into the distance not due to performance, but tyre luck, it ruins F1. Grosjean might've been P4 if not for his issues.

Also, Pirelli is Italian, and uses a test car which a current one is based off. Notice who's getting tyre advantage this year? Hmm.

I want to see the crazy fast Red Bull and Mercedes fighting it out, Lewis and Vettel going at it like crazy. Can't see that when he slides from 2nd to 12th.

Yes, ideally we need tyres that can be pushed to the limit for their expected life. Oh, and ones that can't take too much load around corners.

#30 Sakae

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:48

I wonder I Red Bull could ever think about withdrawing from F1 (not in the short term of course, but divest themselves over time), if they're there for brand promotion, then there comes a point that brand begins to be affected, either by poor results, or by being attached to a sport which is getting bad press.

They could pull out Toro Rosso for example quicker than Red Bull no doubt, especially if they don't have any expected young drivers to move up to the A-team.



It's slightly OT, but it has been revealed recently that DM tried to sell TR already. I have however difficulty reading DM other than impression of him that he doesn't strikes me as being a "good looser". Far lauder ticking bomb I think is at Brackley. DZ was (allegedly) just as mad after race, if not more so, as DM, and that is very rare to see in him. (I actually met him once in Detroit on seminar).

#31 EvanRainer

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:49

Im a bit on crossroads on this one.

Yes it was pathetic to see great drivers being told to drive slower otherwise the tyres fall off and I think for this season Pirelli - on request it has to be said - has made tyres a bit too agressive on wear, and its causing downright dangerous situations.

On the other hand teams that tested the 13 tyres and figured its better to design a car that is as kind as possible to its tyres, with various systems geared towards that - Ferrari and Lotus - are being hugely disadvantaged if Pirellis suddenly decides to change tyres mid season.

That horrible, horible Ed Foster had a point when he asked after race one why not al teams went for a tyre friendly design.

So we have 2 scenarios:

1. change tyres: advantage all the teams that cannot keep tyres in one piece, Red Bull, Merc, McLaren
2. Dont change tyres: keep advantage the teams that can manage the tyres: Ferrari, Lotus, Force India

I hate mid season changes because it pollutes the competition. Eventhough im a Red Bull fan, im inclined to say dont change the tyres, and give all the teams a full week of testing on a hot, abrassive track to get on top of any tyre woes. Maybe even 2 3 day tes sessions to give time to learn stuff from one, design new stuff for the next session. But stop the bullshit politics of mid season changes. this is exactly why big manufacturers get chased away from F1.


only
a) Lotus and Ferrari did not design their car to take advantage of the tyres. No one could or really had time to do that. The characteristics of their cars that favour them with tyres right now were pre-existing from last year.
b) No one is arguing for super harder tyres to favour RedBull or whomever. Or hell even to a return to last years compounds. It's the f'd up construction that's the problem (and no one can dispute it when you have tyres falling apart all over the place).

#32 discover23

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:52

Pirelli are supposed to provide the control tyre. Not to try and influence competition.


this is what some people are missing or trying to play dumb I guess. This is exactly what they've been told to do.. - to influence competition and make changes to the tires that will force all teams to begin the season from a clean slate and not carry any prior knowledge/advantage from the prior season.. So RedBull has to go back to drawing board and do what Ferrari did- use the pre-season test to come up with a design that is suitable for the 2013 spec Pirelli tires - not the tires that they had last year.


#33 discover23

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:55

The teams drive slower for fewer pitstops, then Pirelli makes the tires softer to increase the number of pitstops. Continue like this and you have chewing gum tires in 2015.

Barcelona is known for chewing tires like gum.. in 2011 they also had 4 stops because the tyres did not last.. I think that most of the remaining races we will go back to 3-2 stops..

#34 Masenco

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:57

"When I see a car behind I let it past because I'm doing a different strategy and I don't want to damage my tyres. If I block I might destroy my tyres. It's the same thing we had in China, waving each other past so we don't destroy our rubber while hoping that the guy who's overtaking will."- Button.

This is not F1

#35 EvanRainer

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:57

this is what some people are missing or trying to play dumb I guess. This is exactly what they've been told to do.. - to influence competition and make changes to the tires that will force all teams to begin the season from a clean slate and not carry any prior knowledge/advantage from the prior season.. So RedBull has to go back to drawing board and do what Ferrari did- use the pre-season test to come up with a design that is suitable for the 2013 spec Pirelli tires - not the tires that they had last year.


Again, to suggest that Ferrari DESIGNED their car to suit these tyres is laughable.

All the big tea mcars, save the McLaren, have exactly the same core characteristics as last year.

#36 Slackbladder

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 13:58

It's slightly OT, but it has been revealed recently that DM tried to sell TR already. I have however difficulty reading DM other than impression of him that he doesn't strikes me as being a "good looser". Far lauder ticking bomb I think is at Brackley. DZ was (allegedly) just as mad after race, if not more so, as DM, and that is very rare to see in him. (I actually met him once in Detroit on seminar).


Well yes, I'm not suggesting that they're going to shut up shop over the next few weeks!

But Red Bull have less ultimately invested (in terms of history) in F1, and yes, they are a drinks company, not a racing team or a motor company. For them brand is everything.

That puts them in a different position than both Ferrari and Lotus (along with McLaren), which are first and foremostly racing teams. Merc is in a bit of a different position being a manufacture (and we seen those drop out of the sport numerous times, Honda, BMW, Toyota, Renault and others..).

#37 EvanRainer

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:00

And before anyone accuses me of bias (since I root for red bull), I have always been steadily against those calling for a "return to the bridge stones" even though that would mean Vettel and RBR easily running away with the titles (under the current rules).

#38 discover23

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:02

Again, to suggest that Ferrari DESIGNED their car to suit these tyres is laughable.

why?

Bouillier

"The way they designed the car is all based on the aero. This is why, when the tyres start to be an important part of the car and the car performance, they may struggle.

“They are fast on one lap but then struggle with tyre degradation, which is partially due to the way they designed the car.”


Edited by discover23, 13 May 2013 - 14:06.


#39 SpaMaster

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:03

The 2011 example is funny and proves EXACTLY that the problem is not overall degradation. Also Vettel has proved that his excellent preserving tyres smooth driving wise.

Ferrari and Lotus were better last year at preserving tyres as well. The Lotus is simply great at that, it's a car characteristic and no one is crying about it.

And it's not like RBR is complaining because they have a car with shitty rear traction that overheats the tyres and they demand tyres that last them longer. They have more of a problem with the front because Pirelli created tyres that can't take what should be normal loads.

Normal loads? What is normal loads? Is it a requirement that tires take whatever amount of downforce is generated? I don't think so. If mechanical grip can have negative effect on tyres, why can't aero grip?

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#40 Yoshi

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:05

I don't know, if it's already been posted or not.

Comment from Will Buxton

I loved the Spanish Grand Prix. Every lap of it.

I jest not. I loved. Every. Single Lap.

You may ask why, with the world at large seemingly set on berating another race in which tyre strategy played too large a role. I hope I can go some way to explaining myself.

Earlier in the weekend I had a fabulous conversation with a driver in the paddock. I didn’t record it as it was just two friends chewing the fat, and he probably wouldn’t want me to quote him anyway. So please forgive the paraphrasing.

“Mate, everyone is complaining about the tyres. But the guy who wins… does he complain? No. You should ask them why they don’t complain when they do well, when the day before they were saying it was the end of the world. The only one who understands it is Kimi. He says it’s the same for everyone. If you don’t like it, **** off, do something else. He’s right. If you make the tyres more durable and you only have three stops in a race everyone will still try to make only two stops. It’s the same now as it was with Bridgestone. You always try to do one less stop. By complaining you only damage the sport. It’s the same for everyone. Get on with it and race.”

I loved the opinion. I loved the candor.

There’s nothing more depressing than standing in the pen at the end of the race and asking a driver how his day went, and how happy he must be with his result, only to get an answer that racing to a delta is boring and gone are the days of pushing during a race.

So ask yourself. What did Ferrari do on Sunday?

Did they drive to a delta? Did they try and make one fewer stop than their rivals? Did they hell. They went out and they pushed. Every. Single. Lap.

Fernando Alonso’s opening stint was mesmerising. He was running quali laps on full fuel. It was an absolute joy to behold. And while he might not have been putting in quali laps all day, he certainly wasn’t hanging around.

What Ferrari did in Spain was to completely flip the script. Rather than going into the race and telling their drivers to hold back, they told them to push with everything they had. Four stops was always their intention and it caught everyone else off guard.

Red Bull realised what was going on too late and switched from three stops to four, but by then the race had already been won.

Formula 1 loves a villain and this year Pirelli has been cast into this pantomime role. But, as I explained at the end of the Spanish Grand Prix in my final thought on the NBC Sports Network, the job of a Formula 1 team is to design a car around the variables which are unchangeable. Hermann Tilke used to get the blame for ruining the show for his apparently dreadful circuit design. But is it not the job of the teams to design a car for the circuits on which the championship races? Of course it is. Just as it is the job of the teams to design a car that maximizes the tyres on which it runs.

The problem we’ve had of late is this unfortunate trend towards the creation of a formula based upon the misheld belief that preservation is a better mode of attack than consumption.

What Ferrari showed in Barcelona was that yes you may have to make more pitstops than we’ve seen in the past, but that it is possible to push from the moment the lights go out to the moment that the flag falls. That so much of the press is decrying the race shows, I believe, a disappointing cynicism. Pirelli has become too easy a target.

But should we blame Pirelli for simply doing what they’ve been asked to do and make the tyres less durable? Or should we blame the teams who have seemingly got themselves into the rut of a blame culture that hides the true fact that some have not designed a car capable of maximizing one of the unchangeable variables that has defined the history of the sport?

I remember with great fondness an interview I conducted with Sir Stirling Moss about a decade ago about his greatest races. And the one that always sticks in my mind is his explanation of how he won the 1958 Argentine Grand Prix. He lined up in a privately entered Cooper and against the might of Ferrari he won, taking the first F1 victory for a mid-engined car in the process. How he did it holds as much relevance today as it did back then.

The tyres were only good for 30 laps. 40 tops. The race was 80 laps long. You couldn’t finish without stopping for new tyres. The Cooper’s tyres were fixed with studs, rather than the quick hammer release nuts on the Ferraris. Moss couldn’t win with such a long pitstop delta to change a studded wheel.

He pulled into the lead but nobody paid it any attention. He’d have to stop and all would be lost. But he didn’t stop. He carried on. And by the time Ferrari figured out he wasn’t going to stop, it was too late. The pack gave chase, but Moss won… by 2.7 seconds from Luigi Musso. His tyres were down to the canvas. He’d been driving on the grass for the last few laps to try and cool them down.

“Was I brave that day or stupid?” Moss confided in me. “To this day I don’t know as the two were very closely related. I did everything you shouldn’t normally do to win that race.”

In a way, and although actually completely the opposite of Moss’ fabulous Argentine win in that Ferrari made more stops than expected, that’s precisely what the Scuderia did on Sunday. Because they did everything that, apparently, you shouldn’t normally do on Pirelli tyres to win the race.

They actually raced.

As the Moss story highlights, trying to make fewer pitstops has always been a part of F1. It is nothing even vaguely new.

But, for me, the 2013 Spanish Grand Prix was a game changer. Ferrari’s victory was the perfect riposte to those who claimed that Pirelli’s tyres could not be raced on. Does anybody now have the excuse of saying that it is impossible to push in a race on these tyres, when Ferrari showed that for 66 laps you could… and that by doing so you could win?

With the exception of Lotus the other teams have every reason to feel frustrated after the Grand Prix, as do their fans. Ferrari showed what was possible. It is now up to everyone else to react. For while it might not be achievable for everyone at every race to do what Ferrari did today, what they proved is that Formula 1’s greatest misconception is that doing so at all was impossible.

That’s why I loved the Spanish Grand Prix.

Think about it for a minute.

It’s why you should have loved it too.



#41 Slackbladder

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:07

I don't know, if it's already been posted or not.


So basically... Ferrari are winning, so everthing's right with the world..

And he's utterly wrong, Alonso didn't push every lap at all.

#42 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:08

The goal for building an F1 car used to be to make it as fast as possible


The goal for building an F1 car has never been to make it as fast as possible. The goal is only to make a car that can win races and championships. Reliability concerns always temper outright speed. The teams have a set of rules and set about building a car that will win the championship under the current rules.

#43 discover23

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:10

So basically... Ferrari are winning, so everthing's right with the world..

And he's utterly wrong, Alonso didn't push every lap at all.

with the gap he was building was there really a need to push 100% for every lap? this has nothing to do with tires.. you see this at every other race, pick a year..You can do better than that.. come on.

#44 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:10

only
a) Lotus and Ferrari did not design their car to take advantage of the tyres. No one could or really had time to do that. The characteristics of their cars that favour them with tyres right now were pre-existing from last year.
b) No one is arguing for super harder tyres to favour RedBull or whomever. Or hell even to a return to last years compounds. It's the f'd up construction that's the problem (and no one can dispute it when you have tyres falling apart all over the place).


Well, yes, but they didnt change anything that would make it harder for the tyres neither. Besides, we did have some great racing in the past, Bahrain was very good for instance. And already they changed the tyres.

Im just not a fan of mid season changes. On the other hand Pirelli should do their homework better for high speed corner tracks with high degr like Barcelona. Like I said, im ambivalent on this one.

#45 Slackbladder

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:14

with the gap he was building was there really a need to push 100% for every lap? this has nothing to do with tires.. you see this at every other race, pick a year..You can do better than that.. come on.


From Martin Brundle:

Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen managed the challenge in an impressive way, however, even if when we cut to their on-board cameras they looked to be tip-toeing around


http://www1.skysport...ring-on-a-farce

#46 discover23

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:19

From Martin Brundle:


http://www1.skysport...ring-on-a-farce


isn't he the guy that is bitching the most? Ferrari has all the data for Alonso.. and managed the gap to Kimi, if there was no need to push, there was no need to push.. Kimi could not match Alonso, he said he was too fast. So there you have it..

4 stop strategy.. push hard first two stints build a gap and then control the race was the winning formula for this race. It also helped that Alonso had a phenomenal start..

#47 boldhakka

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:21

From Martin Brundle:


http://www1.skysport...ring-on-a-farce


Yikes, that's a strong editorial.

#48 pingu666

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:25

http://www.youtube.c...378ED17E26CE424

^
pirelli antidote perhaps

#49 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:29

First things first. I don't like the Pirelli tyres.

However, they should not be changed mid-season. Changing tyres mid-season means that the sole tyre mfg has a good idea how the changes are going to suit a particular car. Any change has the effect of Pirelli "choosing a winner" in the tyre characteristics. They shouldn't be changed with two exceptions: 1) Unanimous agreement by the teams, or 2) imminent danger which is completely out of the control of the teams.

The teams aren't going to agree, and we haven't had anything approaching Indy 2005, so I don't see any imminent danger. The teams just need to accept that sometimes you build a car that works with the regulations, and sometimes you don't.





#50 MarileneRiddle

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 14:30

Just on Will Buxton - Sebastian Vettel won Bahrain comfortably. Red Bull were still adamant on changes to the tyres. So I really don't think winning = no complains.

I have long been pro-Pirelli (and still prefer them to the Bridgestones) but I have to say they have gone a step too far. What distresses me is the lack of overtaking - when Pirelli and KERS and DRS were first introduced, there was a spate of overtaking and every random person had a chance to go far if they managed the tyres right.

Now it is 'I'll overtake at the start and then hope I get one less pit stop and not fall back'. Drivers who traditionally manage tyres well are falling back (ie Button), and even those winning say they don't know why they won (Sebastian in Bahrain). That isn't right. Pirelli should make tyres that are difficult yes, but ones that are manageable as well (in the sense of a very difficult Sudoku problem, but one that does have a solution, not one that is simply up to guessing).

I think there is definite work to be done. But I don't think we should just blame Pirelli for all and sundry. They made a mistake, yes, but I have confidence that they will rectify it. 2011 and 2012 were great achievements for Pirelli, we shouldn't just bash them for an error in their third year.

And by the way, I find it hilarious how some people, now that Sebastian is not winning, have turned to praising Pirelli. Not all mind. But just some. It provides good entertainment.