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New Pirelli tyres and DRS - a disaster for F1 and racing? Part 2 [merged]


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#2351 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 14:48

Duff logic. They are not fit for purpose if they are exploding when being used in the manner they were contracted to be used in. Teams running them backwards, at low pressures, at steep camber or toe-in could all be outside guidance and contribute to the failures. Or they could just be sh!t.


And how does it reflect on the tyre manufacturer when the tyres work better the wrong way around? And why did Bridgestone or Michelin not have the same degree of repeated failures? Were teams not pushing the envelope back then?

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#2352 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 14:49

Why not just let the teams choose Which tyres they use from the 3 available


Because you'd bring 4 compounds to each race and everyone would home in on one of those.

#2353 harrys

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 14:50

Putting a new set of tyres on should not give you a 3 second advantage. This is what is happening at the moment. F1 is DOMINATED by tyres at the moment, and we just can't appreciate the real skills of the drivers - and engineers.

#2354 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 14:51

Has Gary Anderson ever been right about anything in his capacity as analyst?

#2355 HP

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 14:52

If I am on the Pirelli board I have had it with the continual complaints about the tires that are only what Bernie and the FIA asked for, and today was the final straw.... millions of consumers watching my tires explode repeatedly. Consumers don't know about sharp curbs... they expect their tires to stand up when they nudge a curb.
I am telling the rest of the board that it is time to call an end to our involvement in the fiasco that is current F-1 and let some other tire company deal with the idiocy of the FIA, Bernie and the teams.

There is a difference between tire performance and tire safety. The problem today was not the tire performance, but an unsafe build of the tires. And the responsibility for that has to lay squarly at Pirellis feet. Whether they like it or not.

Were FIA could improve is to homologate a tire, and if changes are needed have all teams attending the tests, and then rehomologate. Friday testing alone might be incoonclusive, because as it happened the weather plays a big part in this too.

I was really wondering why Ferrari had issues on Saturday, but today they were all gone as temperatures changed. And that leads me to another question.

I can live with tires that start degrading heavily if you abuse them, but have they be very sensitive to ambient or track temperatures? I hope not. Because that IMO plays a big part with the current tussle, and that is a problem that only Pirelli can resolve.


#2356 Atreiu

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 14:53

You do know the procedures? Michelin's failure at Indy 2005 was to not take proper note of the resurfacing of the track. I don't know if Pirelli did their home work or not in Silverstone, but it's their expertise and responsibility to provide tires that don't explode. And today we've seen that these tires even damaged the floor of those F1 cars in a way never seen before. And Kimi had some tire debris flying at him during the race.

IMO no excuse will do under these circumstances.



Alonso could have been smacked head on full throttle...

#2357 harrys

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 14:54

I'd personally like to go back to one durable compound. Forget all this prime and option nonsense - seriously what is the point of making teams use two compounds?

Bring back refuelling as well - that certainly added to the dynamic of a race.

#2358 ardbeg

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 14:54

Putting a new set of tyres on should not give you a 3 second advantage. This is what is happening at the moment. F1 is DOMINATED by tyres at the moment, and we just can't appreciate the real skills of the drivers - and engineers.

I think that is exactly what they should do. But it should not drop 3 seconds per lap just because you go too hot in a few corners. If the tires make consistent lap times until they die, there will only be passing in the pits and with DRS.

#2359 HP

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 15:00

If it is a kerb problem the it is a FIA issue for not inspecting the circuit properly - and that should not be done by just driving round the circuit on a Thursday afternoon before the GP as usually happens.

Seems you don't know that these changes are normally announced long before. In the case if Indy it was almost half a year before hand, where the track owners gave note to the tire manufacturers. I don't know if the current procedures need all to go through FIA. But I'm sure we will hear some day. Also let it be said, that in other races,.where there were problems with kerbs at a track, they could fix that in a matter of hours. As I said in a post above, these tires are too temperature sensitive, so that what teams learn on Friday or Saturday, might not be relevant on Sunday at all. Pirelli fix that, and things should work out OK for everyone. Meaning with less temperature sensitivity they could have found out about the tires before and could have found a solution.


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#2360 HP

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 15:11

I'd personally like to go back to one durable compound. Forget all this prime and option nonsense - seriously what is the point of making teams use two compounds?

Bring back refuelling as well - that certainly added to the dynamic of a race.

PR for the tire company. This idea was introduced after complaints from Bridgestone that nobody talks about their tires, so they came with the idea of different compounds. Seems Pirelli has taken things to the other extreme.

Back to Bridgestone. The idea of different compounds was very palatable for Max Mosley, because he likes strategy (he mentioned that for him a F1 race is a bit like a chess game...). So the idea was Ok'ed. People were confused so the added different colors for us to be able to tell who's on which tire.

I still think the only way to make racing less predictable is to simply reduce the pit/driver communication, and the tools teams are allowed to bring in to set up their cars. We're just lucky, that with all the equipment they still can't foresee a component failure like Vettel had today. But in general, tire compounds, refueling can be done away with, if teams can't be so precise anymore about their setup, and in the race can't instruct drivers on the settings a driver has to dial. DRS can then be done away with it too, because a good driver will understand when he can set up and make an overtake move.

Edited by HP, 30 June 2013 - 15:12.


#2361 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 15:11

Not all kerbs are the same - I wonder how close you have ever been to one?

They were fine for GP2, GP3, Porsche Supercup and other support classes this weekend and LMP1 a short while ago. All with the same kerbs.

#2362 alfa1

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 15:15

Forget all this prime and option nonsense - seriously what is the point of making teams use two compounds?



Rather ironically, the point of the rule was so that the TV commentators would talk about tyres.

Right now, I'm sure Pirelli would wish they were talking about something, anything, else.


#2363 sopa

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 15:18

If the previous races were like "like it or not, it's your decision what you think" then that was literally a DISASTER.

People complained that Pirelli tyres have to be conserved so much nobody can race on them. Now today drivers were very racy, battling for positions, but look at the cost at which it came.: :stoned:

Pirelli Quality : solve one problem, get another instead!

Yeah I think we need to get back to Monaco snail-racing tyres. At least they didn't explode... If that's the best Pirelli can provide.:p

#2364 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 18:38

I'll just leave this :
""Well the team tried to keep us as updated as they can but it's a bit of a moving target for them as well," Webber explained.

"This is not a slow circuit, it's very quick and we are committed to the high speed stuff 100 percent most of the time so... yeah it's not December yet so I'll stay quiet."

Asked how much input the drivers have in the tyre situation, he replied: "We've been trying to have input for the last three years.

"We are part of the package, part of the show and the show goes on by the looks of it."

And Esteban had a front left failure.

Edited by Diablobb81, 30 June 2013 - 18:41.


#2365 DaddyCool

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 18:54

It's high time F1 pulled out its head off its a$$. This should be the final point for coming up with a clear, level-headed solution for this situation (yeah fat chance).

I bet casual viewers are really entertained by this political clusterf*** and tires blowing up left and right cleading to red flags.

#2366 charly0418

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 19:00

Some strong rumors out there of a possible drivers boycott for the race.

Personally, I dont think they have the guts to get together and do this, but if they do, RESPECT!

#2367 BoschKurve

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 19:09

Some strong rumors out there of a possible drivers boycott for the race.

Personally, I dont think they have the guts to get together and do this, but if they do, RESPECT!


The drivers won't boycott anything.

As we've already seen, they do not want to bite the hand that feeds them. When they started getting too critical of the Pirelli Silly Putty Specials, they suddenly became rather mum on the entire subject altogether. Paul Di Resta continues maintaining that the farce is on the up and up even though we all know this is not accurate in any regard. However, Paul has his marching orders from upstairs.

#2368 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 19:23

I'll just leave this :
""Well the team tried to keep us as updated as they can but it's a bit of a moving target for them as well," Webber explained.

"This is not a slow circuit, it's very quick and we are committed to the high speed stuff 100 percent most of the time so... yeah it's not December yet so I'll stay quiet."

Asked how much input the drivers have in the tyre situation, he replied: "We've been trying to have input for the last three years.

"We are part of the package, part of the show and the show goes on by the looks of it."

And Esteban had a front left failure.



:lol: :up:

Another peach from Webber, love this guy. His honesty will be sorely missed next year.

#2369 Sakae

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 19:38

Whiting almost stopped race (based on safety concerns) - Autosport.

#2370 BoschKurve

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 19:45

Whiting almost stopped race (based on safety concerns) - Autosport.


Whiting has a history of not stopping races when they should be stopped, and stopping races when they shouldn't be.

Not surprised he didn't bother stopping today's race. If ever a race should have been stopped, this was the one simply because watching the same tire fail on multiple cars to me was enough to put a stop.

I've noticed with F1, when something major goes wrong, it tends to crystallize at a single race weekend. One instance is never enough, multiple things happen.

I found myself thinking of the 1994 San Marino GP today just for the sheer idiocy on display by multiple parties regarding the technical regulations.

#2371 Kalmake

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 21:54

It seems to me that Whiting isn't talking about aborting the race. He just considered red flag so marshalls wouldn't need to dodge cars. Everyone can change tyres during red flag, which is good if there are cuts.

#2372 bonjon1979a

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 22:13

Where are all the people who were saying there's nothing wrong with the tyres, all is well, just because lotus and Ferrari are doing a better job the other teams are crying. This has been in the offing for months, teams have been trying to cling on to their perceived competitive advantage, refusing changes to make the tyres safer and look where we are. Lotus and Ferrari should be ashamed of themselves for rejecting the change to tyres. Sport is imploding, such a load of nonsense...

#2373 Fangiola

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 22:23

Where are all the people who were saying there's nothing wrong with the tyres, all is well, just because lotus and Ferrari are doing a better job the other teams are crying. This has been in the offing for months, teams have been trying to cling on to their perceived competitive advantage, refusing changes to make the tyres safer and look where we are. Lotus and Ferrari should be ashamed of themselves for rejecting the change to tyres. Sport is imploding, such a load of nonsense...


Ferrari singing a different tune now. Although Lotus still keeping mum and cowering in a corner

#2374 bonjon1979a

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 22:31

Ferrari singing a different tune now. Although Lotus still keeping mum and cowering in a corner

Any idiot could see that the problems had with tyres could also visit their own team. So short sighted if Ferrari and lotus fans. Both teams are heading only one way in the wcc AND we get dangerous tyres. Lose lose situation.

#2375 OO7

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 23:07

Where are all the people who were saying there's nothing wrong with the tyres, all is well, just because lotus and Ferrari are doing a better job the other teams are crying. This has been in the offing for months, teams have been trying to cling on to their perceived competitive advantage, refusing changes to make the tyres safer and look where we are. Lotus and Ferrari should be ashamed of themselves for rejecting the change to tyres. Sport is imploding, such a load of nonsense...

There is nothing wrong with the tyres. Pirelli was asked to create a tyre to improve the show and what a spectacle we had. It would have been better if the blow-outs were spread more evenly around the corners of the car, rather than being confined to the left rear, so Pirelli need to work on this and a few all wheel blow-outs with showers of sparks as the planks rubs against the ground would be quite exciting. They should also consider introducing sympathetic/collateral blow-outs, in which the primary blow-out is of such force that it destroys the actual wheel sending high speed metal projectiles in all directions with the aim of puncturing other tyres in the vicinity.

So well done Pirelli, keep up the good work.

To be fair the teams are to blame also.

#2376 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 23:52

People still getting confused between tyres designed to degrade and poorly designed tyres that explode during normal use way before being worn out. Pirelli need a better construction, not a different deg curve. Construction and rubber used in the tread are separate things. Yes they interact but look how few delams there were during the Michelin/Bridgestone years under normal use when those tyres were pushed to their deg limits. It's Pirelli's inadequate construction that is the prime problem here. Even if that kerb contributed the tyres should stand up to that.

#2377 black magic

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:09

if that was absolutely fine tyres then I'd hate to see malfunctioning ones.

to those that believe due to drivers using the kerbs then what have you watched in the last few years? drivers ahve taken as much kerbs as possible regardless of whether they should

i cannot understand how whiting let race continue given he had graphic evidence that others such as vettel did not suffer tyre failure by pure chance, debris could easily have struck a driver and serious injury accident let alone the car involved.

specifically because the reason for delamination was not known the race should have been red flagged.

and we saw how drivers respond. continued to use kerbs, drive to their limit on the fresh tyres and hopijng that no delamination would occur - no sense of self preservation.

and now we will watch various teams try and use these incidents not for genuine safety but becasue through the excuse of safety they may be able to change tyres to suit their personal team agenda.

not a proud day for f1 all round other than the courage or stupidity of the drivers




#2378 Sakae

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:54

Newey

...
sort of catastrophic failures that we have had today,” said Newey.

“Safety wise, there are potentially two issues. There’s the car that has the failure having an accident due to that failure, but also suddenly you’ve got three kg or so of tread flying around.

“If that hits the following car (driver) on the helmet, it doesn’t bear thinking about.”

...


What if...





I should add, this safety related discussion is getting rather old, and I am unable to even begin comprehending how anyone, here or in paddock, can defend status quo.

Edited by Sakae, 01 July 2013 - 05:59.


#2379 boldhakka

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:59

This entire season is a ridiculous clusterf*** because of the tyres. In many different ways. I wonder what they'll toss into the ring next.

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#2380 as65p

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:22

People still getting confused between tyres designed to degrade and poorly designed tyres that explode during normal use way before being worn out. Pirelli need a better construction, not a different deg curve. Construction and rubber used in the tread are separate things. Yes they interact but look how few delams there were during the Michelin/Bridgestone years under normal use when those tyres were pushed to their deg limits. It's Pirelli's inadequate construction that is the prime problem here. Even if that kerb contributed the tyres should stand up to that.


:up:

Although I'd say people aren't really getting confused, they rather use the failures as welcome, if misleading, ammunition to argue for less degrading tyres with which their favourite teams are supposed to become faster.

#2381 Timstr11

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:33

:up:

Although I'd say people aren't really getting confused, they rather use the failures as welcome, if misleading, ammunition to argue for less degrading tyres with which their favourite teams are supposed to become faster.

That argument would amaze me.

Remind which were the 2 fastest teams the past weekend? Weren't these teams supposed to suffer with these tyres?

It's time many of you fans also become fans of the sport.
Felipe Massa said he does not care who will be advantaged or disadvantaged :up:
This is a serious safety problem that needs to be addressed.

#2382 bonjon1979a

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:01

:up:

Although I'd say people aren't really getting confused, they rather use the failures as welcome, if misleading, ammunition to argue for less degrading tyres with which their favourite teams are supposed to become faster.


Blimey, are you for real? Alonso nearly wore 40 kg of rubber and steel at 190 mph, that could've been potentially cost him his life. You've got such a craven view of the world if you really think that people are bringing this up because they want their team to do better. This is a safety issue, it is really dangerous at the moment, something needs to change.

#2383 as65p

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:10

Blimey, are you for real? Alonso nearly wore 40 kg of rubber and steel at 190 mph, that could've been potentially cost him his life. You've got such a craven view of the world if you really think that people are bringing this up because they want their team to do better. This is a safety issue, it is really dangerous at the moment, something needs to change.


That argument would amaze me.

Remind which were the 2 fastest teams the past weekend? Weren't these teams supposed to suffer with these tyres?

It's time many of you fans also become fans of the sport.
Felipe Massa said he does not care who will be advantaged or disadvantaged :up:
This is a serious safety problem that needs to be addressed.


Nobody denies that. Just, as Tenmantaylor says and I agree with, it's a separate issue to the degradation issues some teams face (or faced in the past).

And yes, I do feel that some people deliberately mix up the two issues, using the urgent safety concerns to argue for their existing cause of more durable tyres.

No reason to get excited. Well, unless the shoe fits, of course.

Edited by as65p, 01 July 2013 - 07:11.


#2384 DS27

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:25

I'm finding it hard to believe there are still people defending the tyres in this situation, and blaming the track / kerbs, etc. It's just nonsense. This isn't touring cars at Thruxton, where there are known issues with high deg due to the track surface and teams are told to stay off the kerbs at the chicane for the first lap or two, and not to run too much camber. This was F1 at Silverstone, a track with no historic issues.

I don't recall seeing anything like this in over 40 years of watching F1. The actual construction aspect of an F1 tyre should have a huge safety tolerance built in when it comes to issues such as riding kerbs, etc, in the same way the wire ropes for a passenger lift designed for 10 people could hold 100. The drivers, CW, and even Pirelli acknowledge there's an issue but some on this forum don't - go figure.

Edited by DS27, 01 July 2013 - 07:28.


#2385 OO7

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:30

I'm finding it hard to believe there are still people defending the tyres in this situation, and blaming the track / kerbs, etc. It's just nonsense. This isn't touring cars at Thruxton, where there are known issues with high deg due to the track surface and teams are told to stay off the kerbs at the chicane for the first lap or two, and not to run too much camber. This was F1 at Silverstone, a track with no historic issues.

I don't recall seeing anything like this in over 40 years of watching F1. The actual construction aspect of an F1 tyre should have a huge safety tolerance built in when it comes to issues such as riding kerbs, etc, in the same way the wire ropes for a passenger lift designed for 10 people could hold 100. The drivers, CW, and even Pirelli acknowledge there's an issue but some on this forum don't - go figure.

It is very obvious there is a serious issue with the tyres and as you mentioned Pirelli is also unhappy with the situation, which is one of the reasons they have been pushing for more tests.

#2386 bonjon1979a

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:36

I'm finding it hard to believe there are still people defending the tyres in this situation, and blaming the track / kerbs, etc. It's just nonsense. This isn't touring cars at Thruxton, where there are known issues with high deg due to the track surface and teams are told to stay off the kerbs at the chicane for the first lap or two, and not to run too much camber. This was F1 at Silverstone, a track with no historic issues.

I don't recall seeing anything like this in over 40 years of watching F1. The actual construction aspect of an F1 tyre should have a huge safety tolerance built in when it comes to issues such as riding kerbs, etc, in the same way the wire ropes for a passenger lift designed for 10 people could hold 100. The drivers, CW, and even Pirelli acknowledge there's an issue but some on this forum don't - go figure.


You're absolutely spot on. The bizarre thing is that people are saying that it's merc and red bull trying to get an advantage by going back to old tyres yet they seem to be doing alright with the current tyres, 1st and 2nd in the wcc.

#2387 Cesc

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:14

After these 8 races, the tire issue is a joke.
The teams that were strong before thanks to the tires are now going backwards, some teams complain about the tires and...oh, they start to win. Tires are buggy, to say the least and are becoming dangerous. Pirelli changes to the tires are unclear and they don't really know what is going on... F1 is pathetical this year. I'm deeply disappointed.

#2388 ardbeg

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:26

I'm finding it hard to believe there are still people defending the tyres in this situation, and blaming the track / kerbs, etc. It's just nonsense. This isn't touring cars at Thruxton, where there are known issues with high deg due to the track surface and teams are told to stay off the kerbs at the chicane for the first lap or two, and not to run too much camber. This was F1 at Silverstone, a track with no historic issues.

I don't recall seeing anything like this in over 40 years of watching F1. The actual construction aspect of an F1 tyre should have a huge safety tolerance built in when it comes to issues such as riding kerbs, etc, in the same way the wire ropes for a passenger lift designed for 10 people could hold 100. The drivers, CW, and even Pirelli acknowledge there's an issue but some on this forum don't - go figure.

Yes, but remember the first races? A F1 race was like watching grannies on the way to church in their Ford Fiestas. The tire wore badly and so, but they did not explode. Now all of a sudden we have racing drivers going for it in corners, driving flat out like there is no tomorrow. I seriously that is in the contract FiA have with Pirelli.

Next race will be fine, just a bit slower.

Edited by ardbeg, 01 July 2013 - 08:27.


#2389 fullthrottle

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:29

Davidson analyses tyre failures

Looks like Pirelli changed somthing... and it didn't really help was it?

#2390 ExFlagMan

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:36

Blimey, are you for real? Alonso nearly wore 40 kg of rubber and steel at 190 mph, that could've been potentially cost him his life. You've got such a craven view of the world if you really think that people are bringing this up because they want their team to do better. This is a safety issue, it is really dangerous at the moment, something needs to change.

Not sure where you got 40kg for a F1 tyre. Last time I picked up a F1 wheel and tyre it didn't seem that heavy, in fact I was surprised just how light it was.
Not sure of the exact figures but I have seen 12 kg mentioned for a Pirelli front tyre, so a I guess a rear would be something like 18-20 kg.
Still not something you want flying about too much.

One interesting point I noticed when GA looked at the turn 4 kerb was that there where 2 mounting pads for 'sausage kerbs' in the green painted concrete beyond the saw-tooth kerb. I wonder why they where not installed as it might have dissuaded the drivers from using so much kerbing - though looking at some of the super slo-mo shots from some races they still feel the need to bounce over them.

#2391 SenorSjon

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:39

The spring that hit Massa was about 800-900 grams. A tire weighs much more, but luckily it is not made of metal. Still, we were very close of seeing a driver with a rubber flap on his visor or a rubber flap wedged in the airbox. That would be rare, an engine failure due to the tires. Bet the team won't get a free 9th engine.

#2392 Sakae

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:43

Not sure where you got 40kg for a F1 tyre. Last time I picked up a F1 wheel and tyre it didn't seem that heavy, in fact I was surprised just how light it was.
Not sure of the exact figures but I have seen 12 kg mentioned for a Pirelli front tyre, so a I guess a rear would be something like 18-20 kg.
Still not something you want flying about too much.

One interesting point I noticed when GA looked at the turn 4 kerb was that there where 2 mounting pads for 'sausage kerbs' in the green painted concrete beyond the saw-tooth kerb. I wonder why they where not installed as it might have dissuaded the drivers from using so much kerbing - though looking at some of the super slo-mo shots from some races they still feel the need to bounce over them.

A loose spring almost killed Massa once, and as Newey said, imagine that 3 kg heavy tire debris will hit you onto a face shield in high speed...

#2393 johnmhinds

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:51

Davidson analyses tyre failures

Looks like Pirelli changed somthing... and it didn't really help was it?



Isn't the real question why is Pirelli changing anything at all?

The last couple of years we've had tyres that didn't fall apart, and this year they are being fancy and messing around race to race by changing the way the tyres are constructed seemingly for no positive reasons and asking teams to run these new tyre designs without adequately testing them.

They know they have no testing sessions to dick about with new designs so why not stick with tyre constriction methods that were working just fine.

#2394 ivand911

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:57

Davidson analyses tyre failures

Looks like Pirelli changed somthing... and it didn't really help was it?

What he say? I can't watch it.

Edited by ivand911, 01 July 2013 - 08:58.


#2395 Ferrari2183

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:58

Davidson analyses tyre failures

Looks like Pirelli changed somthing... and it didn't really help was it?

This is my thinking too. If you look at Hamilton's failure you see there is absolutely nothing left of the tyre except the shoulders. Can a steel belt be ripped into 100 different pieces?

I'm convinced Purelli have made more changes than they were supposed to. Anyway, It has reached boiling now and a revision to 2012 spec is in order although I still think the earlier solution where the tyre remains inflated to be the best.

#2396 muramasa

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:01

Isn't the real question why is Pirelli changing anything at all?

The last couple of years we've had tyres that didn't fall apart, and this year they are being fancy and messing around race to race by changing the way the tyres are constructed seemingly for no positive reasons and asking teams to run these new tyre designs without adequately testing them.

They know they have no testing sessions to dick about with new designs so why not stick with tyre constriction methods that were working just fine.

wondering that too.
could be about cost cutting in material or manufacturing process. maybe there's not much incentives to prioritize quality?


#2397 as65p

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:01

This is my thinking too. If you look at Hamilton's failure you see there is absolutely nothing left of the tyre except the shoulders. Can a steel belt be ripped into 100 different pieces?

I'm convinced Purelli have made more changes than they were supposed to. Anyway, It has reached boiling now and a revision to 2012 spec is in order although I still think the earlier solution where the tyre remains inflated to be the best.


Funnily enough, the delamination instead of deflation seemed safe enough, and that was also Pirellis initial stance. Then they supposedly started to worry about how it might look to the audience and set about improving it... :drunk:

#2398 ivand911

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:05

This is my thinking too. If you look at Hamilton's failure you see there is absolutely nothing left of the tyre except the shoulders. Can a steel belt be ripped into 100 different pieces?

I'm convinced Purelli have made more changes than they were supposed to. Anyway, It has reached boiling now and a revision to 2012 spec is in order although I still think the earlier solution where the tyre remains inflated to be the best.

I don't think it is the best , because this mean delamination. With steel belt this is what is going to happen. I also think tyre belt disappear in Silverstone tyres. I don't think this was 2013 tyres with just different glue. If this was steel belt and side wall is punctured I still think that steel belt will stay intact and will just roll out of the rim.


#2399 bonjon1979a

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:05

Not sure where you got 40kg for a F1 tyre. Last time I picked up a F1 wheel and tyre it didn't seem that heavy, in fact I was surprised just how light it was.
Not sure of the exact figures but I have seen 12 kg mentioned for a Pirelli front tyre, so a I guess a rear would be something like 18-20 kg.
Still not something you want flying about too much.

One interesting point I noticed when GA looked at the turn 4 kerb was that there where 2 mounting pads for 'sausage kerbs' in the green painted concrete beyond the saw-tooth kerb. I wonder why they where not installed as it might have dissuaded the drivers from using so much kerbing - though looking at some of the super slo-mo shots from some races they still feel the need to bounce over them.


Yeah, I got that wrong. I was thinking of whole wheel weight. Still even a 1kg piece at 190mph would do a lot of damage.

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#2400 fullthrottle

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:06

What he say? I can't watch it.


He show the tyre failures from earlier races where after failure there was a steel belt still remain around the rim, but yesterday's failures looks completely different.