113 replies to this topic

[SenorSjon]

I watched Monza 1995 lately, and the commentators were complaining about the 'new, sterile tracks on other parts of the world'


After getting rid of Pirelli, Tilke would be next.

[Kalmake]

I watched Monza 1995 lately, and the commentators were complaining about the 'new, sterile tracks on other parts of the world'


After getting rid of Pirelli, Tilke would be next.

Tilke bashing again. Calendar had no Tilke tracks in 1995. They had some awful 80's and 90's creations such as Argentina (redesigned), Imola (chicaned), Catalunya, Magny Cours, Nürburgring, Hungary and Aida. I very much prefer Tilke tracks to those.

[Risil]

Tilke bashing again. Calendar had no Tilke tracks in 1995. They had some awful 80's and 90's creations such as Argentina (redesigned), Imola (chicaned), Catalunya, Magny Cours, Nürburgring, Hungary and Aida. I very much prefer Tilke tracks to those.

You know not of what you speak.

[BoschKurve]

You know not of what you speak.

Imola with the Tamburello Chicane was not good at all because they didn't bother to try and offset it with another longer high speed section.

They have however finally rectified that by reworking the section coming out of Rivazza 2 by eliminating the Variante Bassa and Traguardo altogether by having a straight run down to the Tamburello. Coincidentally, that straight run from Rivazza is in line with what the original design of Imola was back in the early 1960s. Too bad they could never put the run-off area needed to keep the original Tamburello in place.

But what they did with the last round of upgrades is that should F1 ever return to Imola, they have a DRS zone built in, and there is an overtaking section that does not necessarily rely on out-braking into Tamburello, Tossa, Variante Alta, or Rivazza 1, which were the only real spots one had a chance of overtaking at. Well actually I stand corrected, the other was if you could out-drag someone up the hill to the Piratella.

[Skinnyguy]

You know not of what you speak.

Tilke sucks is just popular thing to say, just like Pirelli bashing, but there´s no such a thing as a Tilke track. Some are awesome and some suck. Just like the rest. He´s built excellent stuff like Malaysia.

And this isn´t going to be popular, but I have to say it: he made the old Hockenheim a proper circuit. Had he designed that boring straight-chicane-straight-chicane-straight-chicane stuff everyone would be in arms. The reduced thing is excellent for quality racing and much more rewarding to lap than the old boring layout. People "missing the old Hockenheim" are just nostalgia driven. It was one of the few races of the year where something would happen but it was a **** circuit regardless. T1 and the Stadium section were all that was worth, and I´m gald they kept just that.

[Risil]

People "missing the old Hockenheim" are just nostalgia driven.

Anyone who watched World Superbikes there might disagree with you.

[SenorSjon]

Tilke sucks is just popular thing to say, just like Pirelli bashing, but there´s no such a thing as a Tilke track. Some are awesome and some suck. Just like the rest. He´s built excellent stuff like Malaysia.

And this isn´t going to be popular, but I have to say it: he made the old Hockenheim a proper circuit. Had he designed that boring straight-chicane-straight-chicane-straight-chicane stuff everyone would be in arms. The reduced thing is excellent for quality racing and much more rewarding to lap than the old boring layout. People "missing the old Hockenheim" are just nostalgia driven. It was one of the few races of the year where something would happen but it was a **** circuit regardless. T1 and the Stadium section were all that was worth, and I´m gald they kept just that.

It is not popular, it is the truth

I've had it with his tent like grandstands all over the world, sections of tarmec wider than long. You would run out of fuel before you reach a tire wall or gravel trap. The old Hockenheim was robbed of her spirit. I hate the new layout and it is just another track cut short, whereas it used to be a low DF high speed track, with ppl gliding around in the stadium due to the low DF. It had something eerie with the contrast between the twisty and busy stadium and the forrest high speed section. The track was too long and required to many cameras I guess.

Malaysia is a nice track, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Lemans]

Tilke sucks is just popular thing to say, just like Pirelli bashing, .... People "missing the old Hockenheim" are just nostalgia driven. .....

Also a popular thing to say.

A lot of people enjoyed watching cars blast into the forest at those speeds. That track had a big, dark, daunting and dangerous feel too it. It also felt like your were 'going' somewhere.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion but I think the new 'Sissy' version of the Hockinheimring that you enjoy is complete ****. Might as well host that Gymkhana bullshit there now.

Edited by Lemans, 20 May 2013 - 22:30.

[Skinnyguy]

Also a popular thing to say.

Not quite. If you want I post that comment on YT on a video of the old circuit and you´ll see how popular I become

I never got what the deal was about that place. Yes, it did produce racing with those cars but further than that, it was a really boring layout. Excellent T1, huge lapsus of boredom behind the wheel if you´re lapping alone, excellent Stadium corner entry, sort of OK twisty stuff, and that´s it.

Now, if someone tells me old Nurburgring was the real deal, that´s a different story, there´s more than nostalgia there, there´s actually an amazing layout with a huge % of excellent corners. Silly slow chicanes are no my thing.

[BoschKurve]

Tilke sucks is just popular thing to say, just like Pirelli bashing, but there´s no such a thing as a Tilke track. Some are awesome and some suck. Just like the rest. He´s built excellent stuff like Malaysia.

And this isn´t going to be popular, but I have to say it: he made the old Hockenheim a proper circuit. Had he designed that boring straight-chicane-straight-chicane-straight-chicane stuff everyone would be in arms. The reduced thing is excellent for quality racing and much more rewarding to lap than the old boring layout. People "missing the old Hockenheim" are just nostalgia driven. It was one of the few races of the year where something would happen but it was a **** circuit regardless. T1 and the Stadium section were all that was worth, and I´m gald they kept just that.

I have a friend who grew up 3KM away from the Hockenheimring. He attended many races at the old Hockenheim well before they added the chicane before the Ostkurve, and he even built race cars that won races at that circuit. He said the new Hockenheim is a shell of what the old circuit was. He's talked many times about what a challenge it was to get a car right for that track. Most of the people who disparage the old Hockenheimring have little idea of how challenging that circuit was. Sure it looked simple, but it wasn't exactly as simplistic as seems to be implying. I understand not everyone including drivers even liked the circuit.

Hockenheim got strong-armed into redesigning the circuit because of the FIA and F1 whining about the circuit not being suited for spectators and the usual safety rubbish. There was that belief the redesigned track would cause people to show up in droves, and it never happened. A pity everyone realized only too late that the redesign was not a good idea in the long-term. I can guarantee you, that knowing what is known now, that redesign never would have happened. It also took away a great circuit for prototypes as well.

So yes, it may have been **** circuit to you, but it had a genuinely deserved spot on the calendar. Engine killer circuits are good because it challenges the engineers to build engines that can handle the stress.

I do agree though that Sepang is a very nice circuit. It's the only Tilke circuit that I think he did a good job with. The rest are utterly forgettable and not even worth having on the calendar, especially that piece of **** in the Korean wilderness.

[RSNS]

Then there was this piece of news in 1998:

Prost and Hill call for refuelling ban

Reuters, 21 May 1998
By Jonathan Noble
Location : MONTE CARLO

Former world champions Alain Prost and Damon Hill called for a ban on refuelling in Formula One on Thursday, saying it would make the sport a better spectacle.

“We definitely need to change something to improve the show,” said four-times world champion Prost, “and if we are going to change something important, we need to ban refuelling.”

His comments follow the early season domination of McLaren drivers David Coulthard and Mika Hakkinen which has led to criticism that the sport has become too predictable.

“At the moment the cars are always light with fuel and always on fresh tyres – and we need to come back to what we had 10 years ago,” Prost said.

“Back then the drivers were more important because they had to drive the car and they had to think about the set-up, not only for practice and qualifying but also having something different for the race.

“When you are carrying 200 litres of fuel you have to think very carefully.”

Hill gave his backing to Prost’s ideas and revealed that he had been attracted to the sport during the period when refuelling was banned.

“I never actually started following Grands Prix until the early 1980s,” said the 1996 champion.

“The fascination for me was that when you were 20 laps from the end of the race you had some guy who was 30 seconds in the lead and there was another driver catching him at an astonishing rate.

“That can only happen if there is the possibility for a variation of performance with the car during a Grand Prix in such a way that Alain has described.

“The way the cars are raced now they run only at their optimum, so there is no room for any variation or choice of pace. There is no other way to drive but completely flat out.

“You don’t drive within the limit of the car, you don’t drive to look after the brakes or the tyres or anything like that – it’s just flat out.

“So you have a pretty well established race order after five or six laps and that is pretty much what you are going to see for the rest of the race.”

But Prost’s and Hill’s claims have not met with universal support.

McLaren technical director Adrian Newey is one who believes that refuelling does excite some spectators.

“I think people shouldn’t underestimate the way the spectator understands all of this, because it gives them an interest,” said Newey, whose car has won four out of five races this year.

“With a golf or tennis player there is simply a sportsman and there is not much technology. In Formula One there are a lot of different areas that people like.”

This is, I think, correct.

[Enzoluis]

Not quite. If you want I post that comment on YT on a video of the old circuit and you´ll see how popular I become

I never got what the deal was about that place. Yes, it did produce racing with those cars but further than that, it was a really boring layout. Excellent T1, huge lapsus of boredom behind the wheel if you´re lapping alone, excellent Stadium corner entry, sort of OK twisty stuff, and that´s it.

Now, if someone tells me old Nurburgring was the real deal, that´s a different story, there´s more than nostalgia there, there´s actually an amazing layout with a huge % of excellent corners. Silly slow chicanes are no my thing.

The problem wiht Tolke tracks is that seems all the same. After Australia, Sepang is Ok, China a little worst, then come Baherein and Catalunya that both seems the same. Now Monaco, Canada and Silverstonechanges the pattern, but then again the Nürbur and Hungary. Then Spa and Monza braking the patter. But after that the asian Monaco, and Korea, fortunatly then cames India and Abu Dhabi. Fortuntly texans do not giveup to Tilke and Austin is decent and Brazil is Ok. I would like to change one of Tilkes for the old Hockenheim, other for Imola, or A1 or Dijon or Brand Hatch or Zandvoort. I would like that the differents trucks were different and characteritics challenges for the cars in a way to difficult build a car good for every track.

[pingu666]

Couldn't find anywhere better to put this really, but I just watched this video of Sato onboard at Suzuka in 2002:



Car seems so aggressive, a real beast. It looks fast, it looks a real handful to drive. And don't even get me started on that trip around the original 130r - took my breath away.

Would love F1 to regain that, and for me a tyre war would help certainly. It was controversial before but for me a budget cap that permits a good degree of technical freedom is the best option for both entertainment and sporting values to be balanced together,

that does look damn fast

id say nascar has less passing than f1 now, on a per car average imo

[Sakae]

that does look damn fast

id say nascar has less passing than f1 now, on a per car average imo

Yeah, but at NASCAR races a driver is not holding a door for you - after you, sir.