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Charges pressed against Bernie Ecclestone [merged]


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#501 secessionman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 13:19

It's interesting to note the slow pace of this thread compared to the Mosley Spanking thread. 10 months to get 500 posts here while Mosley filled about 10 threads in about as many weeks IIRC. Maybe this case is just causing less excitement as many of us have seen it coming for quite a while?

 

Anyway, TJ13 reporting that Munich prosecutors have already dismissed Bernie's blackmail defence before the hearing even starts next week.

 

http://thejudge13.com/

 

Prosecutors dismiss Ecclestone ‘blackmail’ – report (GMM)

The pre-trial documents outlining the case against Bernie Ecclestone make no mention of the possibility he was blackmailed by Gerhard Gribkowsky. That is the claim of the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag, revealing that it has seen and read the 223-page document ahead of the Munich hearings that begin next week. F1′s chief executive claims he only paid the millions to jailed banker Gribkowsky because he was threatening to divulge details of Ecclestone’s tax affairs to authorities.

But Welt am Sonntag claims prosecutors do not regard Ecclestone’s account as legitimate, insisting the almost $44 million in payments to Gribkowsky was solely so the 83-year-old Briton can “secure his position of power” in charge of F1.

Citing the court documents, the newspaper also says 40 witnesses are scheduled to testify at the trial, which will be attended by Ecclestone himself. Ecclestone said in Bahrain last weekend that F1 will “do our best” to run the sport while he is occupied in court.

The judge has been very good,” he told British television Sky. “He has said you’ve just got two days a week in court, Tuesdays and Wednesdays. On the Wednesday’s he’s going to try and get things out of the way a little bit earlier so I can leave and carry on doing what I normally do.



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#502 wrighty

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 13:25

It's interesting to note the slow pace of this thread compared to the Mosley Spanking thread. 10 months to get 500 posts here while Mosley filled about 10 threads in about as many weeks IIRC. Maybe this case is just causing less excitement as many of us have seen it coming for quite a while?

 

 

It's because so much of the information contained in this case is impenetrable......which is more than can be said (yada yada etc etc you get the idea.....)



#503 Nemo1965

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 13:33

It's because so much of the information contained in this case is impenetrable......which is more than can be said (yada yada etc etc you get the idea.....)

 

Eh... No, I think it's different. In the Spanking-gate thingey there was a lot of discussion on a. was this actually connected to F1, b. was this connected to Spy-gate (meaning: did anyone at team M. at W. set Mosley up, c. was this not really a private matter, d. was this really a concentration-camp role play or something else, and e. it was about sex.

 

So at THAT case there were a lot more angles in which posters could stab their knives. And ofcourse other people's opinions which they could try to stab to death.

 

In this case  - though much material is impenetrable - the angles are more or less restricted: did Bernie get bribed? (I've got the answer to that...) And perhaps: will this force him to withdraw from F1?


Edited by Nemo1965, 14 April 2014 - 13:33.


#504 Slartibartfast

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 16:11

This thread is also different to the Mad Max threads in that it is still here. Maybe Bernie needs more aggressive lawyers?

#505 Nemo1965

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 18:04

This thread is also different to the Mad Max threads in that it is still here. Maybe Bernie needs more aggressive lawyers?

 

I think Bernie needs another... Bernie. Seriously, if you see him being interviewed about F1 he still seems lucid. At the court however... did you see him make the roundabout in the revolving door, a couple of weeks ago? He genuinely did not seem to know how to walk through a door anymore. Furthermore, the things he says in Londen, if you just scrutinize what he is saying... it's like my auntie Helen trying to hide that she left the kettle on the fire for five hours in a row...



#506 scheivlak

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 19:12

Tonight on German television (ARD, 22.45 - 23.30 h) : "Milliardenpoker Formel 1" about the life and times of Bernard Charles Ecclestone http://www.daserste....rmel-1-100.html



#507 Andrew Hope

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 19:16

I think Bernie needs another... Bernie. Seriously, if you see him being interviewed about F1 he still seems lucid. At the court however... did you see him make the roundabout in the revolving door, a couple of weeks ago? He genuinely did not seem to know how to walk through a door anymore. Furthermore, the things he says in Londen, if you just scrutinize what he is saying... it's like my auntie Helen trying to hide that she left the kettle on the fire for five hours in a row...

 

This is not evidence Bernie is going nuts, but simply that he has finally done what we all knew he would: become a robot.

 

I for one welcome the robot Ecclestone and look forward to his continued enthusiastic treatment of F1 for exactly what it is.



#508 X61

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 20:39

I think Bernie needs another... Bernie. Seriously, if you see him being interviewed about F1 he still seems lucid. At the court however... did you see him make the roundabout in the revolving door, a couple of weeks ago? He genuinely did not seem to know how to walk through a door anymore. Furthermore, the things he says in Londen, if you just scrutinize what he is saying... it's like my auntie Helen trying to hide that she left the kettle on the fire for five hours in a row...

It's all a legal tactic.  How can this poor confused man in his eighties, who can't even operate a door properly, be capable of orchestrating what has led to these charges?



#509 Nemo1965

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 21:22

It's all a legal tactic.  How can this poor confused man in his eighties, who can't even operate a door properly, be capable of orchestrating what has led to these charges?

 

 

Could be. 

 

This is not evidence Bernie is going nuts, but simply that he has finally done what we all knew he would: become a robot.

 

I for one welcome the robot Ecclestone and look forward to his continued enthusiastic treatment of F1 for exactly what it is.

 

Andrew, I don't quite get your post. I guess you are being either ironic or sarcastic or straight on the level. Do you think that Bernie is still a good supremo for F1 or that he is awful but that is just what F1 deserves?

 

Confused...



#510 IPBushy

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 22:03

I'm sorry, but how can anyone not see that the door incident was a big joke for the benefit of the gathered media? 



#511 scheivlak

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 22:17

Tonight on German television (ARD, 22.45 - 23.30 h) : "Milliardenpoker Formel 1" about the life and times of Bernard Charles Ecclestone http://www.daserste....rmel-1-100.html

Nice little documentary with some Rolling Stones riffs (like from "Sympathy for the Devil") as background music at times - somehow The Who's "Won't get fooled again" entered my mind.

 

Two interesting things:

- an anecdote by Hans Joachim Stuck,1977 Brabham driver, discussing his next year's contract with Bernie on the telephone. He thought it was wise to ask for a $100.000 contract for a year in view of some decent results. Bernie said: "Wait a minute, here I just have Artuto Merzario on the phone as well, and he wants to drive for $30.000". And Stuck got down to $ 30.000 - but didn't get the seat anyway because Parmalat stepped in to finance (for 100 %) a seat for Niki Lauda for quite another amount of money....

Later Bernie confessed to Stuck that this "Merzario guy" was just somebody else in the next room of his office. Stuck: "You got to give it to him - he doesn't keep something like that secret, he just tells you like it is in your face."

 

- The whole Gribkowsky / 44 million affair wouldn't have come to light but for the effort of one dedicated journalist: Klaus Ott from the Süddeutsche Zeitung. It's him, and not the German prosecution at first, who decided to look at all the financial sides and schemes of the whole Bayerische Landesbank / CVC deal and started to ask questions. And it's his research that has led to showdown we will see in the coming weeks.

 

- Nice quote from BE himself: "Money is just a byproduct". Central to Bernie isn't money, it's power. Because power gives you money anyway after all.

In the documentary Willy Weber said it right: "Bernie thought he could deal with Gribkowsky like he did in any other deal in Formula 1. Not one single moment it did occur to him that it would be a bit more tricky than that".



#512 Nemo1965

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:03

I'm sorry, but how can anyone not see that the door incident was a big joke for the benefit of the gathered media? 

 

That is what I thought... but then I saw the look in Bernie's eyes... and then after, the way he tried to enter the building again. It was not a joke, though he tried to make it seem like that.



#513 jimbox01

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:04

It's all a legal tactic.  How can this poor confused man in his eighties, who can't even operate a door properly, be capable of orchestrating what has led to these charges?

It's a tactic, but I wouldn't call it legal, just a way to cover half truths, misinformation and, what may turn out to be, blatant lies - 'sorry I'm really old and my memory isn't what it used to be'.

Didn't work in the Constantin ­Medien case though, the judge saw straight through him.  Now he's got to face the German courts having already been branded as not “reliable or truthful”, and effectively ordered to pay cost for giving “untruthful evidence”, despite winning the case - plus Newey (the judge not the designer) ruled that the money paid to Gribkowsky was a bribe and not blackmail.

 

 

Disclaimer: I personally am not in any way suggesting Ecclestone is a liar, but it's easy to understand why some people may think this given that a high court judge has said he's untruthful.



#514 X61

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 17:49

It's a tactic, but I wouldn't call it legal, just a way to cover half truths, misinformation and, what may turn out to be, blatant lies - 'sorry I'm really old and my memory isn't what it used to be'.

Didn't work in the Constantin ­Medien case though, the judge saw straight through him.  Now he's got to face the German courts having already been branded as not “reliable or truthful”, and effectively ordered to pay cost for giving “untruthful evidence”, despite winning the case - plus Newey (the judge not the designer) ruled that the money paid to Gribkowsky was a bribe and not blackmail.

 

 

Disclaimer: I personally am not in any way suggesting Ecclestone is a liar, but it's easy to understand why some people may think this given that a high court judge has said he's untruthful.

Yes, I believe we meant the same thing.  It is a tactic to fool people.  And defense attorneys love jurors who are easily fooled.  The judge isn't empty headed, but in the future if there is a jury trial they will be looking for people who are.

 

Sorry, raised Dutch, now living in America, I have two butchered versions of the English language to lean on  ;).



#515 MustangSally

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 20:39

 

In the documentary Willy Weber said it right: "Bernie thought he could deal with Gribkowsky like he did in any other deal in Formula 1. Not one single moment it did occur to him that it would be a bit more tricky than that".

 

 

 

Good synopsis. It fits with most things at the time. Gribkowsky was a 'formidable opponent'. to quote Der Spiegel, having sued Ecclestone a couple of times. First time he won and second time Bernie settled.

 

I think the English judge was much nearer the mark when he said that Bernie wanted the bank off his back - and in particular Gribkowsky.

 

In a way, Bernie didn't bribe or pay Gribkowsky, he just routed the commission from Bayern to Grib. According to Spiegel, Gribkowsky was fairly miffed that he received nothing for arranging the deal. Hence the amount.