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Charges pressed against Bernie Ecclestone [merged]


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#101 TriumphST

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 00:06

Agree with most of what you say, but as far as this bit is concerned I believe what Bernie is doing is keeping F1 at the pinnacle. By making sure that F1 is being operated in all the major world economies, regardless of whether many people in the area can afford to turn up, he keeps it world-relevant. If it were restricted to the same old European circuits and a few outliers, it could be dismissed by large chunks of the world population but he's kept it high on the agenda everywhere and he's done so without spending his own cash and making other people (indeed, Governments) spend theirs.

Regardless of whether this is a good or bad thing for the European viewer or fan, he's kept F1 right up there hasn't he? Those new sponsors need to come from the new big economies.

Arrangements like this almost inevitably involve some levels of 'shade' to achieve. Whether you have to take someone for lunch in the best restaurant in town, or have to bung a person of influence a couple of million to make sure he says the right things at the right meetings, there's always something. I would not be surprised if Bernie were to be found guilty for that reason, but much more surprised that he's been caught.


Surely if your premiss was correct then the US, by far the biggest market on Earth wouldn't have been so studiously ignored by Ecclestone for so long.

Yes, he was busy maximising income in all these far flung places that increasingly turn out to be simply unsustainable. But that illustrates poor judgement, just as poor I'd venture as reneging on an (alleged) agreement with Gerhard Gribkowsky to pay in addition to the agreed sum an uplift for currency fluctuations.

But you could be right, Ecclestone has an ability to keep F1 at the top of the agenda, usually for all the wrong reasons. Certainly bribery and corruption aren't things the ordinary fan or the casual race watcher will find acceptable under any circumstances. Some it seems, will feel this conduct is the acceptable face of business in the 21st century, well if my MP was fiddling their expenses I'd want them punished and the same goes for Ecclestone, Gribkowsky got 9-years, should Ecclestone get less?


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#102 EthanM

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:26

Surely if your premiss was correct then the US, by far the biggest market on Earth wouldn't have been so studiously ignored by Ecclestone for so long.

Yes, he was busy maximising income in all these far flung places that increasingly turn out to be simply unsustainable. But that illustrates poor judgement, just as poor I'd venture as reneging on an (alleged) agreement with Gerhard Gribkowsky to pay in addition to the agreed sum an uplift for currency fluctuations.

But you could be right, Ecclestone has an ability to keep F1 at the top of the agenda, usually for all the wrong reasons. Certainly bribery and corruption aren't things the ordinary fan or the casual race watcher will find acceptable under any circumstances. Some it seems, will feel this conduct is the acceptable face of business in the 21st century, well if my MP was fiddling their expenses I'd want them punished and the same goes for Ecclestone, Gribkowsky got 9-years, should Ecclestone get less?


Really? Bernie has tried time and time again to break F1 into the American market, it just never gained a foothold ... Have you forgotten Indianapolis? it's only been 6 years.

Bernie's business model is the same as any Luxury brand. Sunseeker doesn't care how sustainable Dubai is, they just sold boats there for as long they could. Prada doesn't care how sustainable Asia was, they sold handbags for as long as they could. Maybach didn't care how sustainable the Shanghai boom is, they just sold the bulk of their production there. All luxury brands position themselves to exploit markets for however long they are available, they don't all go oh let's start selling our product at Tesco too to get the common man as a backup.Bernie does the same. He follows the money. And he's managed to find 20 places willing to spend silly money to host F1. And a couple more waiting in the sidelines. And we 're in a lousy global economy. And he's been doing that for 20+ years.

#103 packapoo

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 03:30

Funny, there's nothing on Autosport about this... :well:


Taking your word for it, that IS strange. :o
Even Adam Cooper has come out about it, at, I would have thought, the risk of his continued F1 accreditation.

#104 Sakae

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:29

Really? Bernie has tried time and time again to break F1 into the American market, it just never gained a foothold ... Have you forgotten Indianapolis? it's only been 6 years.

Bernie's business model is the same as any Luxury brand. Sunseeker doesn't care how sustainable Dubai is, they just sold boats there for as long they could. Prada doesn't care how sustainable Asia was, they sold handbags for as long as they could. Maybach didn't care how sustainable the Shanghai boom is, they just sold the bulk of their production there. All luxury brands position themselves to exploit markets for however long they are available, they don't all go oh let's start selling our product at Tesco too to get the common man as a backup.Bernie does the same. He follows the money. And he's managed to find 20 places willing to spend silly money to host F1. And a couple more waiting in the sidelines. And we 're in a lousy global economy. And he's been doing that for 20+ years.


IPO suggests, that they are hoping to find continuance with this madness. Makes one wonder who are the mysterious buyers for it.

#105 7MGTEsup

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:32

Well if my MP was fiddling their expenses I'd want them punished and the same goes for Ecclestone.


Corruption and politics go hand in hand, poeple don't get into politics to help the common man. They get into it for personal gain as we see time and time again. Big bussiness is the same, there are millions of Gordon Gekko's out there quite happy to trample on everyone to get to where they want to be. Unfortunately that is the way the world turns and it will never change. Big money always brings with it greed and corruption.

Edited by 7MGTEsup, 17 May 2013 - 08:33.


#106 TriumphST

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 13:02

Corruption and politics go hand in hand, poeple don't get into politics to help the common man. They get into it for personal gain as we see time and time again. Big bussiness is the same, there are millions of Gordon Gekko's out there quite happy to trample on everyone to get to where they want to be. Unfortunately that is the way the world turns and it will never change. Big money always brings with it greed and corruption.


No reason not to chuck the book at them when we find their fingers in the till...or is, as some would have us believe, Ecclestone's somehow inviolate.

Edited by TriumphST, 17 May 2013 - 18:10.


#107 Talisman

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 17:03

If he was genuinely working for the overall benefit of the sport, he would have reinvested at least some of the profits in things like helping to bring through new (real) talent, helping improve track safety (and layouts), promoting motorsports at the grassroots level.


I don't think you can accuse him of doing nothing regarding safety, especially since you specify track safety.

Bernie is the guy who appointed Sid Watkins and backed him up over every move. Bernie is the guy who threatened racetrack owners with cancelling races if they didn't obey Sid, even if it threatened his own income. Safety is probably the only thing Bernie has ever come close to sacrifice his own income for.

Given the time he did this, not long after Jackie Stewart was mocked for his efforts to improve safety, Bernie was going against the grain and picking a fight he wasn't forced to.

Arguably because of his great political and economic clout Bernie did more than anyone else to make F1 a safer sport although Max's push after Senna's death comes close.

#108 pup

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 17:20

I think that people who credit Bernie with the revival of F1 are simply unaware of the role that Mosley played in the whole thing. At the time Bernie and Max completed their coup of the sport, Group C was where the action was. That series had the manufacturers, the viewers, and the money. Max changed that by altering the Group C rules to hurt the manufacturers, while at the same time making it easy for them to move into F1. It was a given that with the manufacturers came the money and the crowds; so with his 99-year promotion deal in hand, all Bernie had to do was turn that popularity into lucrative circuit contracts. The irony being that everyone in the sport got filthy rich except Mosley, and I've always thought that was why he was later so bitter towards the manufacturers, the teams they partnered with, and even Bernie himself.

Edited by pup, 17 May 2013 - 17:21.


#109 swerved

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:27

http://edition.cnn.c...udge/index.html

#110 Sakae

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:57

http://edition.cnn.c...udge/index.html

Is it just me, or anyone else also think that Ecclestone is treating whole matter as mere misunderstanding?

#111 swerved

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:01

Is it just me, or anyone else also think that Ecclestone is treating whole matter as mere misunderstanding?



I think he's just being Bernie, all serene on the surface but i'd be surprised if he isn't paddling like a good un underneath, I think this has the potential to cause real problems for him, and i would feel pretty confident in saying he's well aware of just how serious it really is.


#112 TimRTC

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:03

Still going to be a long time before anything actually happens - financial cases like this can drag through courts for years, particularly when there are multiple countries involved.

#113 IPBushy

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:21

Is it just me, or anyone else also think that Ecclestone is treating whole matter as mere misunderstanding?


I, for one, have never believed a word he's ever said. If it turns out he was telling the truth then that's fine. He is an ex second-hand car salesman, after all!!!

**ducks to avoid incoming...


#114 redreni

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:38

I am german I used a vocabulary page to translate Staatsanwaltschaft.... like I said you can translate it better please go on

but since you already ask I wished we had cool royals like the brits :o


Instead of Albert von Thurn und Taxis, you mean? I think you‘re better off without royals, to be honest. They have a nasty habit of writing letters to Ministers on matters of government policy saying stuff like "might I suggest that we need to.....", and the government‘s fawning replies are a state secret even though the Information Commissioner and Information Tribunal have both found that there are no lawful grounds to refuse to release them. Who knows, maybe that‘s part of the reason why, if you‘ve got freinds in high places like Bernie, you don‘t tend to get in too much legal trouble here in the UK.

Best of luck to the state prosecutor.

#115 kraduk

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:39

Does anyone else have a "the enemy you know is better than the one you don't" feeling about this?

If Bernie goes, this leaves a massive power vacuum at the top of F1, and who knows who might fill it? It could be another person with a strong vision for F1 - but what if theirs is completely different to Bernie's? This'll be messy.

What if it's a weak leader who doesn't have the balls to balance the interests of CVC/Teams/Drivers/Fans? That could spell the end for F1.

the end of f1 as a brand may not be a bad thing, as if a rival series was setup it would leave the succubus of cvc high and dry

#116 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 14:16

People don't understand reality. The "business world" is akin to "the world of politics" which is akin to "the world of crime". What you're told is "this is how it works", but that doesn't mean *the people actually IN it care about that*. It's a system, and a *pliable* one, and that is how "They" look at it.

Bernie does not look at throwing around $44 million to give him an advantage - however it may be done - any differently than the local business person feels about "contributing" to a local politician expecting to get help on something later on.

That is reality. It sucks as far as I'm concerned, but it's not optional. It's perspective. People in great power or wealth do not look at "the law" any differently than a person sitting in a movie theater feels they're doing something "wrong" by hanging out to see a second showing of the movie without paying. There are no imaginary "ethical" big corporations or uber rich people, it runs counter to the shark-Darwinian nature of capitalism. You are most likely being culled.



#117 undersquare

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 14:42

Indicted. I think this might be the beginning of the end.

#118 MPea3

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 15:01

What will the timeline on this be, and how will it work with BE not being a German resident? I'm used to the US legal system, where lawyers could drag this along forever. It seems from BE's response that he's going to take the approach that until he's convicted it's not going to affect him. Of course CVC could force him out, but might not the wait and see attitude benefit them as well?

#119 Sakae

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 15:22

Still going to be a long time before anything actually happens - financial cases like this can drag through courts for years, particularly when there are multiple countries involved.

Prosecutor has taken his time to prepare this case; I think he has his sh** together alright, as evidenced by mere fact that judge decided to take a case. Moreover, he's feeling some heat behind him to move swiftly, because bank wants their money back.


______________

What is not certain if CVC shall be found complicit and charged.

Edited by Sakae, 17 July 2013 - 15:39.


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#120 undersquare

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 15:33

I reckon CVC and others will be looking at it thinking eventually there IS a conviction coming. It's admitted that the money was paid and the other guys is doing 8 years for it, so if they leave Bernie in place F1 will be left with its figurehead in prison for corruption.

The longer they leave it the closer will be the association between F1 and its murky past, including of course the fact that (allegedly :D ) CVC only got their hands on F1 in the first place through this bribe. The other bidder is suing istr.

Of course Bernie's alleged deal was that he could have the money AND keep running F1, so there may be some reason CVC cannot :eek: get rid of him.

But if not I bet they must be thinking now is the time to cut him adrift, before the court hearings actually start.

#121 HPT

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 15:50

I read a few posts in here and I can't for the life of me understand why is there such hate towards Bernie. To the point that some wish him in jail while others will probably be happy to see him dead. What has he done to warrant such hatred? Being ridiculously successful? "Ruining" your favorite sport...the one that HE built to what it is today?

Yes he bribed someone. And in an ideal world, he deserved to be punished. But I get the feeling many are more than happy to see him punished because he is ultra successful, and someone has finally has something to pin him to, and not because he has done something wrong and deserves punishment for this particular crime.

Anyways, I admire Bernie. I'm probably in the minority. So be it! :)

#122 undersquare

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 16:02

I read a few posts in here and I can't for the life of me understand why is there such hate towards Bernie. To the point that some wish him in jail while others will probably be happy to see him dead. What has he done to warrant such hatred? Being ridiculously successful? "Ruining" your favorite sport...the one that HE built to what it is today?

Yes he bribed someone. And in an ideal world, he deserved to be punished. But I get the feeling many are more than happy to see him punished because he is ultra successful, and someone has finally has something to pin him to, and not because he has done something wrong and deserves punishment for this particular crime.

Anyways, I admire Bernie. I'm probably in the minority. So be it! :)

Eh? He stole F1 from the teams, whom he was supposed to be representing. So now half the money goes to the leeches while he has far more than he could ever use. Colluded with Mosley to run the whole sport dishonestly, with bias. Runs it so teams fail regularly, makes tracks work for a pittance or at a loss, prices fans out of tickets, sold it to Sky...

It would be fantastic if justice should finally catch up with him. I want to live in a world where this happens to guys like Bernie!!

#123 fastlegs

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 16:08

Hey Bernie,

What goes around comes around.

#124 oetzi

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 16:09

Before Bernie organised things, Williams was run from a phone box.

The real leeches are new entrants who expect things to be roeorganised to suit them, including an ever increasing share of revenues they've done absolutely nothing to generate (apart from pay a factory somewhere in the home counties to paint a car a particular colour). Why should the established teams have gone through the entire growth process and all the attached pain just to see the cash generated hoovered up by multinationals to the level it pays enough to run the team and therefore provides them with an endless stream of massively valuable free advertising?

If I were them I'd much rather keep half of it and find sponsors for the rest than see it all gulped down by companies the size of small countries.

#125 HPT

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 16:10

Eh? He stole F1 from the teams, whom he was supposed to be representing. So now half the money goes to the leeches while he has far more than he could ever use. Colluded with Mosley to run the whole sport dishonestly, with bias. Runs it so teams fail regularly, makes tracks work for a pittance or at a loss, prices fans out of tickets, sold it to Sky...

It would be fantastic if justice should finally catch up with him. I want to live in a world where this happens to guys like Bernie!!


He made team owners richer than they could ever imagine. You think it would have made a difference if he gave the teams 90% and him 10%? The top teams will still spend all that money and the smaller, less successful ones will still be pushed out. Just ask team owners like Eddie Jordan, who folded his team, how many times a millionaire over he is because of Bernie.

He didn't "make" tracks work for pittance or at a loss. He didn't put a gun to the owners' heads and make them run F1 races. They did it for whatever reason on their own accord. Prices fans out of tickets? Did Louis Vuitton price you out of a handbag as well? With all due respect, no one forces you - or any fan - to be a fan! If those are your reasons for hating him, just stop watching F1. It's as simple as that.

#126 HPT

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 16:12

Before Bernie organised things, Williams was run from a phone box.

The real leeches are new entrants who expect things to be roeorganised to suit them, including an ever increasing share of revenues they've done absolutely nothing to generate (apart from pay a factory somewhere in the home counties to paint a car a particular colour). Why should the established teams have gone through the entire growth process and all the attached pain just to see the cash generated hoovered up by multinationals to the level it pays enough to run the team and therefore provides them with an endless stream of massively valuable free advertising?

If I were them I'd much rather keep half of it and find sponsors for the rest than see it all gulped down by companies the size of small countries.


+1

#127 taran

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 16:31

What I don't understand is why nobody (e.g. journo's) bothered to investigate this. Bernie has had a dodgy reputation since he was out of short pants so it seems far more likely to me that he would have bribed some German banker to sell at Bernie's preferred price to Bernie's preferred buyer than some German banker knowing enough about Bernie's convoluted financial affairs to be able to blackmail him.

Seriously, which scenario makes more sense?

This whole thing stinks of cyclinggate. Every sportswriter with half a brain knew 99% of all cyclists were dirty but nobody wanted to rock the gravy train. And so every lead was ignored. And once it became irrefutable, they all claim they were duped.

Once Bernie is behind bars, I bet every F1 journo will suddenly claim they were duped/investigating/waiting for permission to piss from the FIA.



#128 DS27

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 16:45

What I don't understand is why nobody (e.g. journo's) bothered to investigate this. Bernie has had a dodgy reputation since he was out of short pants so it seems far more likely to me that he would have bribed some German banker to sell at Bernie's preferred price to Bernie's preferred buyer than some German banker knowing enough about Bernie's convoluted financial affairs to be able to blackmail him.

Seriously, which scenario makes more sense?

This whole thing stinks of cyclinggate. Every sportswriter with half a brain knew 99% of all cyclists were dirty but nobody wanted to rock the gravy train. And so every lead was ignored. And once it became irrefutable, they all claim they were duped.

Once Bernie is behind bars, I bet every F1 journo will suddenly claim they were duped/investigating/waiting for permission to piss from the FIA.



Rather like the Jimmy Saville / BBC / Media situation, where everyone seemed to know, but was scared to follow up on it.

#129 Fastcake

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 16:51

Rather like the Jimmy Saville / BBC / Media situation, where everyone seemed to know, but was scared to follow up on it.


There's a difference between "knowing" and actually knowing, for both cases as it happens.

#130 undersquare

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 17:21

He made team owners richer than they could ever imagine. You think it would have made a difference if he gave the teams 90% and him 10%? The top teams will still spend all that money and the smaller, less successful ones will still be pushed out. Just ask team owners like Eddie Jordan, who folded his team, how many times a millionaire over he is because of Bernie.

He didn't "make" tracks work for pittance or at a loss. He didn't put a gun to the owners' heads and make them run F1 races. They did it for whatever reason on their own accord. Prices fans out of tickets? Did Louis Vuitton price you out of a handbag as well? With all due respect, no one forces you - or any fan - to be a fan! If those are your reasons for hating him, just stop watching F1. It's as simple as that.

Lol, stop reading this thread, if it upsets you so much.

I don't hate him, I like justice. Obviously he has his talents, but he's dishonest. He could have been great, but instead he's a criminal (allegedly). Let the honest guys win, and the bad guys lose I say. Insane, senseless greed, bribery, betrayal...if that ends in prison the world will be a better place than if it doesn't.

#131 TimRTC

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 17:24

Difference is that F1 journalists generally do not take much interest in the complex financial sides of the business - would need a specialist in business matters to really investigate it, something that most motorsports media sources are unlikely to bother with, particularly as most fans really couldn't care less.

#132 TriumphST

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 17:46

Still going to be a long time before anything actually happens - financial cases like this can drag through courts for years, particularly when there are multiple countries involved.


When they announce the action they're ready to go which means Ecclestone will have an arrest warrant issued anytime and if the Gribkowsky trial is anything to go by he can expect to be incarcerated. When Gribkowsky was in the frame no one thought he'd come clean. Ecclestone will implicate everyone he can including CVC in the mess.

Suspecting the only thing CVC will be floating for the next couple of years is the rubber ring at bathtime....

Edited by TriumphST, 17 July 2013 - 17:47.


#133 PerfectMan

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 18:06

Best news in a long time, hopefully he has to leave his post and CVC follows with him.

I love Bernie

Would hate to think where F1 would be today without it...as I'm sure many of the teams (and team owners) do..


Other than Red Bull and Ferrari who have benefited from his backstabbing tactics, nobody is better off. Especially the midfield teams who are in a constant battle for finances, while CVC and Bernie leach billions of dollars out of the sport.

Lots of fans that have never or will never go to an actual race slag bernie off for bringing F1 to TV (which ironically is how they watch F1) and having races in weird countries blah blah. Bernie has lots of faults, but what is beyond question is that F1 teams churn through 2.5 billion dollars per season. That amount of money, and the amount of progress it brought to F1 from the 80s onwards would have simply been outside the reach of the oh so jolly garagistes. Red Bull is in F1 cause F1 puts its brand in front of millions of sets of eyes every fortnight. Same applies to Santander, Vodafone blah blah blah. All that is possible because F1 is on TV. Not because a bunch of "fans" think they are "passionate" cause they parrot how great Spa is and how awful Tilkedromes are and how Bernie is evil.

endofrant


Is that supposed to be impressive? What difference does it make whether F1 teams spend 2.5 billion/year or 1 billion/year? in all likely hood it's decreased the entertainment values, and it's definitely decreased the driver talent, especially at the back of the field.

Before Bernie organised things, Williams was run from a phone box.

The real leeches are new entrants who expect things to be roeorganised to suit them, including an ever increasing share of revenues they've done absolutely nothing to generate (apart from pay a factory somewhere in the home counties to paint a car a particular colour). Why should the established teams have gone through the entire growth process and all the attached pain just to see the cash generated hoovered up by multinationals to the level it pays enough to run the team and therefore provides them with an endless stream of massively valuable free advertising?

If I were them I'd much rather keep half of it and find sponsors for the rest than see it all gulped down by companies the size of small countries.


Revenue sharing works a whole lot better than the top 2-3 teams in the field trying to buy their way to championships.

#134 TriumphST

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 18:15

Difference is that F1 journalists generally do not take much interest in the complex financial sides of the business - would need a specialist in business matters to really investigate it, something that most motorsports media sources are unlikely to bother with, particularly as most fans really couldn't care less.



Thats not true, there's a great deal of interest though most UK fans thought Ecclestone untouchable this clearly demonstrates he isn't.

Furthermore this is not about complex financial matters, shifting profits across continents. It's about one very greedy little man bribing his way to an additional $6b he had no right to and found to have lied in denying it.

These are very serious criminal charges that even when they're done with, the Kirch estate, Constantine Median, Bayern LB and others will be queueing up to take a slice out of Ecclestone's ill gotten gains. Surprised Mullens and CVC weren't implicated, that will probably come later.

Edited by TriumphST, 18 July 2013 - 17:41.


#135 TriumphST

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 18:35

I reckon CVC and others will be looking at it thinking eventually there IS a conviction coming. It's admitted that the money was paid and the other guys is doing 8 years for it, so if they leave Bernie in place F1 will be left with its figurehead in prison for corruption.

The longer they leave it the closer will be the association between F1 and its murky past, including of course the fact that (allegedly :D ) CVC only got their hands on F1 in the first place through this bribe. The other bidder is suing istr.

Of course Bernie's alleged deal was that he could have the money AND keep running F1, so there may be some reason CVC cannot :eek: get rid of him.

But if not I bet they must be thinking now is the time to cut him adrift, before the court hearings actually start.


They can't, because he'll spill the beans, and he'll need a united front if his 'blackmail' defence is to have any chance of succeeding. Like dominios should Ecclestone follow Gribkowsky then CVC will be investigated for complicity and who knows how many civil cases it will spawn on top of those already in the pipeline....

#136 carsmart

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 18:36

He made team owners richer than they could ever imagine. You think it would have made a difference if he gave the teams 90% and him 10%? The top teams will still spend all that money and the smaller, less successful ones will still be pushed out. Just ask team owners like Eddie Jordan, who folded his team, how many times a millionaire over he is because of Bernie.

He didn't "make" tracks work for pittance or at a loss. He didn't put a gun to the owners' heads and make them run F1 races. They did it for whatever reason on their own accord. Prices fans out of tickets? Did Louis Vuitton price you out of a handbag as well? With all due respect, no one forces you - or any fan - to be a fan! If those are your reasons for hating him, just stop watching F1. It's as simple as that.


+ 1 as well

#137 Garagiste

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 19:05

Insanely wealthy person is bent? Shocked I tell you.

#138 BRG

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 19:20

Oh Happy Day!

If I have ever spoken or even thought anything adverse about the German system of justice, I take it back unreservedly. At last someone has got enough gonads to take on Bernie. Now watch the funb as his house of cards collapses and all the others pile in against him. WHo knows, maybe even the UK HMRC will find enough backbone to investigate his tax 'affairs'.

Maybe Tamara will have to get a job.....

#139 Garagiste

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 19:31

She's got one.

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#140 BRG

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 19:52

She's got one.

Oh, if only, if only....

#141 Fastcake

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 20:05

Thats not true, there's a great deal of interest though most UK fans thought Ecclestone untouchable this clearly demonstrates he isn't.

Furthermore this is not about complex financial matters, shifting profits across continents. It's about one very greedy little man bribing his way to an additional $6b he had no right to and found to have lied in denying it.

These are very serious criminal charges that even when they're done with, the Koch estate, Constantine Median, Bayern LB and others will be queueing up to take a slice out of Ecclestone's ill gotten gains. Surprised Mullens and CVC weren't implicated, that will probably come later.


You might want to withhold that unless he actually goes to prison. These cases can run for years and years trudging through the courts, and Bernie's rich enough to keep his lawyers at it until he's a hundred and running F1 from Cuba or somewhere.

She's got one.


:lol:

#142 FastnLoud

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 20:28

I doubt Bernie is bothered at all - Horrible to say but the old man hasn't got too long left.



#143 Seano

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 23:25

I have feeling his house of cards will collapse quite quickly once certain organisations decide put some clear water between themselves and his murky dealings.

Frankly I've been baffled for a couple of years as to why HMRC didn't go after him big time straightaway after he had said that he paid the 26 million bung to avoid his tax affairs being investigated.

He certainly won't be able run F1 from Cuba or the transit lounge at Moscow airport.

Seano

#144 Kucki

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 00:33

What if they strip the commercial rights from CVC at the end of this road?

#145 Raelene

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:44

HPT


TOTALLY AGREE

These bashers wouldn't have half the things or races to chat about on the internet without Bernie - they'd be reading about races, or watching week old delayed hightlights...

Undersquare

and the teams make more money only getting "half that you accuse Bernie of stealing" than they would have without him

He has made not just himself, but others very rich..

#146 jonpollak

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:35

She's got one.


mmmm' 'Sausages....
Jp


#147 bourbon

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:44

I support Bernie. Races are great and what is a little bribery between friends? :up: :D

#148 Watkins74

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:45

He made team owners richer than they could ever imagine. You think it would have made a difference if he gave the teams 90% and him 10%? The top teams will still spend all that money and the smaller, less successful ones will still be pushed out. Just ask team owners like Eddie Jordan, who folded his team, how many times a millionaire over he is because of Bernie.

He didn't "make" tracks work for pittance or at a loss. He didn't put a gun to the owners' heads and make them run F1 races. They did it for whatever reason on their own accord. Prices fans out of tickets? Did Louis Vuitton price you out of a handbag as well? With all due respect, no one forces you - or any fan - to be a fan! If those are your reasons for hating him, just stop watching F1. It's as simple as that.

I have never had a beef with Ecclestone. However the argument can be made that the expansion of TV (cable) and the need for content drove the prices for TV rights for almost all sports to astronomical levels. This is what brought the $ into F1. He handled that $ well but in many ways he was at the right place at the right time.

JMHO

#149 HPT

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:08

Lol, stop reading this thread, if it upsets you so much.

I don't hate him, I like justice. Obviously he has his talents, but he's dishonest. He could have been great, but instead he's a criminal (allegedly). Let the honest guys win, and the bad guys lose I say. Insane, senseless greed, bribery, betrayal...if that ends in prison the world will be a better place than if it doesn't.


I think you'll find that I'm not the one who is upset. I'm just somewhat perplexed by the hatred/strong dislike towards him, to the point some are happy if he goes to prison. Besides, this thread is for discussion. So I'm here to discuss. Why stop? :D

#150 Jimisgod

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:16

Silly Bernie won't spend a day in jail, but I wonder who gets the reigns after he is pushed aside? Todt?