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Charges pressed against Bernie Ecclestone [merged]


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#201 Slartibartfast

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:55

Yeah, but nobody 'needs' F1. It's not like a monopoly on power supply or transport. If it's not priced 'fairly' and 'affordably' then nobody will buy it. What we find fair and affordable will vay, but it needs to be at a price a lot of people think is fair and affordable or it will just stop.

No, it doesn't. It needs to generate revenue acceptable to the supplier for it to continue.

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#202 oetzi

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:01

Exactly. A sufficient number of people see value in it at the current price.

#203 Shambolic

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:32

He can set any price he likes, but he needs to find someone willing to pay it or he won't get far.

In the end, you, I, and everyone else who watches it sets the price. No viewers = no media coverage = no sponsorship = no cars = no races. Or from the tracks' point of view, = no crowd/TV platform to publicise their country = no money/point = no race.

So we all set the price, and Bernie's just the one who needs to read the runes and guess what we've set it at.


Except he sets a price, gets a buyer.. And makes sure that buyer is locked into a contract that will cost them a hell of a lot to get out of. So when they realise they're stuck with something that isn't making the returns promised, they can't do a damned thing till the end date on the paper they signed.

Meanwhile, he lines up the next sucker, presumably with talk about how the product is worth every penny and more, and the last/ current lease holder simply didn't know how to maximise it.

There's plenty of greedy, rich people, countries and companies out there who will buy into the F1 dream. Just look at the way backmarker teams used to be sold from one to another to another, all thinking they could get some marketing, a little global fame, and turn a profit selling on a cherished grid slot to yet another publicity seeking investment hunting mug. In fact, who currently owns Lotus? And what have been their plans since taking over? How's that working out for them...


#204 TriumphST

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 07:06

Bernie and his buddy Max did more to bring F1 into disrepute than anyone in the sport's history.

MrE is a con-artist and it should be no real surprise when one considers he was a used car salesman in a previous life.

The sport's commercial rights being sold off to MrE for the sum they were was a con job if there ever was one.

You act as if F1 had no following before Saint Bernie came along. Grand Prix racing existed long before MrE ever came along, and would have done just fine without him.


On a wider note, I went along to a grass roots sprint course celebrating it's 50th anniversary over the weekend. No charge to get in and an affiliated club run by members for motorsport enthusiasts. Chatting to some of those there, it seemed that F1 wasn't even associated with competition or sport any more and simply a business.

Places like Curborough and Shelsley Walsh still embody the real essence of motorsport and it was good to be reminded of it.

#205 wrighty

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:53

It's still on archive.org:

http://web.archive.o....com/mosley.htm


Many thanks.....its a right riveting read :)

#206 BoschKurve

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 13:19

On a wider note, I went along to a grass roots sprint course celebrating it's 50th anniversary over the weekend. No charge to get in and an affiliated club run by members for motorsport enthusiasts. Chatting to some of those there, it seemed that F1 wasn't even associated with competition or sport any more and simply a business.

Places like Curborough and Shelsley Walsh still embody the real essence of motorsport and it was good to be reminded of it.


I had a similar feeling watching MotoGP at Laguna Seca yesterday regarding the feeling of competition and sport.

MrE's desire to hijack all of the profits F1 generates into his own bank accounts has helped create an environment that feels neither sporting, nor truly competitive.

The past few days I have been watching the 1999 F1 season just to occupy the current break, and now while not perfect (as there are a number of technical issues that were present such as the idiot 4-groove tires) the overall feel one gets from watching the races is altogether much different from the present incarnation of F1. It still feels very much like a competition, and a sport. I know one could, and would debate that the present F1 still meets that. I disagree that the current F1 is anything more than a glorified reality TV show that has little substance left to it. It's akin to watching the WWF/WWE. The entire thing feels scripted with MrE playing the role of Vince McMahon.

I'm sort of baffled as to how people justify the current "sport" as being good, and/or Bernie being good for the sport. He's not.

That is to say even if he is convicted/plea bargains his way to some jail time, I don't think much will change as he has created an entity now that no one can really control.

The thing about greed is that it is all-consuming, and continues feeding until there is nothing left.

#207 TriumphST

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 14:00

Mosley's family owns half of central Manchester, I wonder how much of that was his.


Where did you get that from?

#208 Fangiola

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 14:08

lol Flavio and Bernie are best buddies.

A lot of that stuff listed involves MrE by the way.

And, whoever "setup" Mosley? LOL...maybe if Mosley didn't have a penchant for Holocaust-themed orgies, he wouldn't have had anything to worry about, no? I like to think Ron Dennis leaked that to the media as payback for Spygate though.


Thats some "payback" even though the fine was a $100 million, Mosely lost his career, was vilified and bounced out of FIA and his son died from drug related problems (although the latter might not be a direct connection to his spanking sessions) I sort of feel sorry for him though as his punishment has far outweighed any crime he might have committed. Although I don't think Ron D had anything to do with it, this had "News of the world" written all over it

but anyway back on track, Bernie E is what some will refer to as the neccessary evil. He has grown the sport but sometimes doesn't come across as being a fair person, I guess this comes with the territory and it must be extremely difficult trying to balance the interest of all stakeholders (whilst also trying to line your pocket)

Edited by Fangiola, 22 July 2013 - 14:10.


#209 ensign14

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 14:36

Where did you get that from?

It's well-known. There's a Mosley Street in the city centre.

#210 Fangiola

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 14:40

It's well-known. There's a Mosley Street in the city centre.


There's an Ecclestone road in North London, that don't mean Bernie owns the whole borough :rolleyes:

Am sorry its just that that logic seems slightly flawed

Edited by Fangiola, 22 July 2013 - 14:41.


#211 TriumphST

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 15:05

It's well-known. There's a Mosley Street in the city centre.


Well known among whom?

#212 ensign14

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 16:14

Historians. Max' great-great-something grandfather became the lord of the manor several centuries back. When the Industrial Revolution kicked in, the Mosleys coined it. How do you think Sir Oswald got his knighthood? How do you think the sisters moved in the highest political circles? It wasn't for their own personal achievements. Max' older half-brother is still the current baronet of Ancoats, as namechecked in Brian & Michael's sma shit "Matchstick Men And Matchstalk Cats And Dogs".

#213 BoschKurve

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 16:17

Historians. Max' great-great-something grandfather became the lord of the manor several centuries back. When the Industrial Revolution kicked in, the Mosleys coined it. How do you think Sir Oswald got his knighthood? How do you think the sisters moved in the highest political circles? It wasn't for their own personal achievements. Max' older half-brother is still the current baronet of Ancoats, as namechecked in Brian & Michael's sma shit "Matchstick Men And Matchstalk Cats And Dogs".


Good stuff as always ensign! :up:

#214 BoschKurve

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 16:20

Thats some "payback" even though the fine was a $100 million, Mosely lost his career, was vilified and bounced out of FIA and his son died from drug related problems (although the latter might not be a direct connection to his spanking sessions) I sort of feel sorry for him though as his punishment has far outweighed any crime he might have committed. Although I don't think Ron D had anything to do with it, this had "News of the world" written all over it

but anyway back on track, Bernie E is what some will refer to as the neccessary evil. He has grown the sport but sometimes doesn't come across as being a fair person, I guess this comes with the territory and it must be extremely difficult trying to balance the interest of all stakeholders (whilst also trying to line your pocket)


Bernie is not what I would call a necessary evil.

The sport would have grown regardless of who was overseeing the commercial rights of the sport as it wasn't terribly difficult to do.

That (the sport growing) is what is I think misunderstood greatly by many, when it comes to Bernie and Maximilian's reign of terror.

The two men combined performed one of the all time sporting con jobs that would make even Sepp Blatter blush at the sheer audacity of it all.

#215 Sakae

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 20:23

Keep guessing

Ecclestone’s replacement won’t be from F1 community

German authorities formally charged Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone last week for Bribery related to the sale of F1’s interest and it raises the question as to who would put an 82-year-old man in prison—apparently the Germans would.

Poor Ecclestone. "Supremo" when convenient, then poor 82 years old man, also when convenient. How touching.

#216 ray b

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 20:58

UK and the current Reich have extradition treatys ?

what about the other odd bits of the empire ?
aren't there lots of little bits like the gersey island with very odd rules ?
could he hop around for quite a while esp on a big yacht ?

#217 BoschKurve

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 21:07

Keep guessing

Ecclestone’s replacement won’t be from F1 community
Poor Ecclestone. "Supremo" when convenient, then poor 82 years old man, also when convenient. How touching.


I like this line...

Ecclestone’s guilt or innocence is not for debate until a formal court procedure has taken place...


Since when has that stopped anyone from debating innocence in any high profile court case...?

Besides, Ecclestone doesn't deny making the payment, he just denies that it was a bribe. He's probably going to go with the blackmail defense since he claims it was for stopping a tax inquiry in the UK. Although after hearing that excuse, I wonder if he realizes he could now be subject to opening the financials. But maybe that is his goal in order to try and remove attention from the CVC deal.

Although to be fair to MrE, I might have as much difficulty viewing it as a bribe in any real sense, if that were how I conducted business under normal circumstances. I suppose his having conducted business in the manner he has over the past several decades, might desensitize one to proper ethics.

#218 oetzi

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 23:12

Except he sets a price, gets a buyer.. And makes sure that buyer is locked into a contract that will cost them a hell of a lot to get out of. So when they realise they're stuck with something that isn't making the returns promised, they can't do a damned thing till the end date on the paper they signed.

Meanwhile, he lines up the next sucker, presumably with talk about how the product is worth every penny and more, and the last/ current lease holder simply didn't know how to maximise it.

There's plenty of greedy, rich people, countries and companies out there who will buy into the F1 dream. Just look at the way backmarker teams used to be sold from one to another to another, all thinking they could get some marketing, a little global fame, and turn a profit selling on a cherished grid slot to yet another publicity seeking investment hunting mug. In fact, who currently owns Lotus? And what have been their plans since taking over? How's that working out for them...

?

Anyway, caveat emptor.

#219 Seano

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 23:36

UK and the current Reich have extradition treatys ?

what about the other odd bits of the empire ?
aren't there lots of little bits like the gersey island with very odd rules ?
could he hop around for quite a while esp on a big yacht ?


I think he would be ensnared by a European arrest warrant rather than an extradition.

If he was to hop over the Jersey, I think they would boot him out as they wouldn't want the attention at this time when we are looking for tax evasion.

I just hope the arrogant Spanker Mosley gets caught up in the fallout too - he can play out his little dungeon fantasies for real.

Even better if Sin pays a visit with a cane or two - he'd like that allegedly.

Seano

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#220 TriumphST

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:54

Historians. Max' great-great-something grandfather became the lord of the manor several centuries back. When the Industrial Revolution kicked in, the Mosleys coined it. How do you think Sir Oswald got his knighthood? How do you think the sisters moved in the highest political circles? It wasn't for their own personal achievements. Max' older half-brother is still the current baronet of Ancoats, as namechecked in Brian & Michael's sma shit "Matchstick Men And Matchstalk Cats And Dogs".


Where's the bit that says they own the centre of Manchester?

#221 milestone 11

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 13:24

If he was to hop over the Jersey, I think they would boot him out as they wouldn't want the attention at this time when we are looking for tax evasion.
Seano

You must be joking, he's already there. The most corrupt society in the western world. Oh, and that's coming from a Jerseyman.


#222 jimbox01

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 14:15

Where's the bit that says they own the centre of Manchester?

http://www.thornber....les/mosley.html
http://www.mancheste...reet-names.html

#223 ExFlagMan

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 16:37

http://www.thornber....les/mosley.html
http://www.mancheste...reet-names.html

Cannot see how those links imply they own the centre of Manchester - looks like they sold the manor in 1845.

#224 TriumphST

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 18:28

http://www.thornber....les/mosley.html
http://www.mancheste...reet-names.html


And what are you trying to achieve....a bigger hole?


#225 SophieB

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 21:06

Posts deleted. I suggest it's also time to move on from the 'Does the Mosley family own Manchester or not' sidebar.

#226 TriumphST

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 00:17

I like this line...



Since when has that stopped anyone from debating innocence in any high profile court case...?

Besides, Ecclestone doesn't deny making the payment, he just denies that it was a bribe. He's probably going to go with the blackmail defense since he claims it was for stopping a tax inquiry in the UK. Although after hearing that excuse, I wonder if he realizes he could now be subject to opening the financials. But maybe that is his goal in order to try and remove attention from the CVC deal.

Although to be fair to MrE, I might have as much difficulty viewing it as a bribe in any real sense, if that were how I conducted business under normal circumstances. I suppose his having conducted business in the manner he has over the past several decades, might desensitize one to proper ethics.



That's not the case though, my recollection is Ecclestone very publicly denied, on several occasions, ever paying Gribkowsky anything at all. In fact only after most of the payments were undeniably traced back to him (Flavio also paid the odd instalment) did the ridiculous 'blackmail/subtle shakedown' stance actually surface.

Whatever defence he employ's it's unlikely to be that one, opinion is he'll rely on a) Gribkowsky isn't reliable as he's changed his story too often (not something Ecclestone would do of course....)..... or b) Well yes he'll admit the bribe but was unaware Gribkowsky was in fact a civil servant.

Edited by TriumphST, 24 July 2013 - 05:16.


#227 Tonka

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:01

More problems ahead for Bernie? According the Indy -

Exclusive: Formula One pays £1m corporation tax on £300m profit

The company that runs Formula One has used a complex technique to legally avoid paying tens of millions of pounds in corporation tax despite racking up annual profits of £305m last year, The Independent has learned.
F1, which is run by billionaire Bernie Ecclestone, made a net contribution of £945,663 ($1,468,000) in corporation tax in 2011 on revenues of £980m ($1.5bn) – even though the majority of its commercial operations are based in the UK.


Read the rest here -

http://www.independe...it-8728928.html

This is, of course, another Christian Sylt exclusive. So make of that what you like !




#228 kimifan88

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:37

More problems ahead for Bernie? According the Indy -



Read the rest here -

http://www.independe...it-8728928.html

This is, of course, another Christian Sylt exclusive. So make of that what you like !


I read a story a while back on James Allen's blog I think, saying that Silt is close to Ecclestone and gets news from him so why would Ecclestone want publicity for this kind of thing? It looks very factual to me but not really positive is it?

#229 TriumphST

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:43

I read a story a while back on James Allen's blog I think, saying that Silt is close to Ecclestone and gets news from him so why would Ecclestone want publicity for this kind of thing? It looks very factual to me but not really positive is it?


Non-story really, nothing illegal about tax avoidance it isn't the same as evasion which is.

Most likely to be more of BE's smoke and mirrors to keep the focus away from something he'd rather have kept under wraps....or maybe he wants to tell the world what a clever boy he is?

Edited by TriumphST, 24 July 2013 - 05:46.


#230 F1ultimate

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:44

With CVC now being dragged into the mud Bernie can no longer be disillusion and stamp the case as "ridiculous" His chances of being imprisoned have now increased ten fold. I doubt his powerful "friends" can help him, and neither can he settle his way out of this one.

“Among the documents the judge ordered CVC to disclose are due diligence reports on F1 at the time of the sale and the refinancing; appendages to the disclosure letter from Mr Ecclestone to CVC at the time of the transaction relating to F1 revenue streams; CVC’s loan application to RBS relating to its purchase; investment committee minutes; financial models it relied upon for its offer; and a Deloitte tax report prepared for CVC at the time of refinancing.”

Source

#231 Sakae

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:59

With CVC now being dragged into the mud Bernie can no longer be disillusion and stamp the case as "ridiculous" His chances of being imprisoned have now increased ten fold. I doubt his powerful "friends" can help him, and neither can he settle his way out of this one.

Source

This was actually anticipated, as CVC, through its in-house capabilities, must have had questions about this transaction. As they were direct benefactor of this deal, possibility is, they will be called on the carpet and who knows, maybe even charged. Quite gripping.

Edited by Sakae, 05 August 2013 - 08:01.


#232 undersquare

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 08:05

With CVC now being dragged into the mud Bernie can no longer be disillusion and stamp the case as "ridiculous" His chances of being imprisoned have now increased ten fold. I doubt his powerful "friends" can help him, and neither can he settle his way out of this one.

Source


Ha, Bernie's story about being blackmailed is looking less and less likely to fly.

#233 F1ultimate

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 08:13

This was actually anticipated, as CVC, through its in-house capabilities, must have had questions about this transaction. As they were direct benefactor of this deal, possibility is, they will be called on the carpet and who knows, maybe even charged. Quite gripping.


It's is very gripping indeed. Like they say for every man who commits a crime, there are 5 others who turn a blind eye.


How long until CVC puts Bernie on suspended leave while the investigation takes place?

#234 Sakae

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:07

It's is very gripping indeed. Like they say for every man who commits a crime, there are 5 others who turn a blind eye.


How long until CVC puts Bernie on suspended leave while the investigation takes place?

A Japanese executive in his situation would have resigned his position within a day or two when story broke up (probably couple of years ago). With a British subject I am not sure, but I read recently that CVC is not very concerned about it (at least in public).

#235 F1ultimate

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:16

A Japanese executive in his situation would have resigned his position within a day or two when story broke up (probably couple of years ago). With a British subject I am not sure, but I read recently that CVC is not very concerned about it (at least in public).


CVC are not British and not a public company. Just like Bernie they are capitalists and abide by different morals and business conducts. They could care less what people think as long as money keeps coming in and they dodge the hand of justice.

#236 Sakae

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:54

CVC are not British and not a public company. Just like Bernie they are capitalists and abide by different morals and business conducts. They could care less what people think as long as money keeps coming in and they dodge the hand of justice.

In bold, I didn't realized that. In 1981 it all started as Citicorp Venture in London (England), subsidiary of Citigroup. I am not sure who is pulling strings in the background, but most vectors are pointing to London. I am also aware that they are private equity firm. No comment on rest in the post.

#237 Slartibartfast

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:51

A Japanese executive in his situation would have resigned his position within a day or two when story broke up (probably couple of years ago). With a British subject I am not sure, but I read recently that CVC is not very concerned about it (at least in public).

I don't understand the significance of a hypothetical Japanese executive's behaviour to the subject.

#238 Sakae

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 13:32

I don't understand the significance of a hypothetical Japanese executive's behaviour to the subject.

Try harder.

#239 BoschKurve

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 13:39

I don't understand the significance of a hypothetical Japanese executive's behaviour to the subject.


It's relatively simple.

There is a code of conduct to be adhered to in Japanese corporate culture...something missing from Western corporate culture at large.

That Bernie is still going along running FOM in spite of the storm clouds tells you everything that you need to know about the sort of idiocy that permeates the Western ethos of proper behavior. Improper behavior is justified as long as the profits continue rolling in. Were FOM a Japanese company, Bernie would have been long gone, and in fact may have committed suicide.

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#240 Slartibartfast

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 13:40

Try harder.

Explain, please.

#241 Petroltorque

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 13:46

CVC are not British and not a public company. Just like Bernie they are capitalists and abide by different morals and business conducts. They could care less what people think as long as money keeps coming in and they dodge the hand of justice.

If I could interject here; CVC are a Private equity. My understanding is that the corporate governance regarding private equity is stringent. CVC should indeed be worried. If f Ecclestone is convicted it would mean they, CVC, acquired the F1 rights fraudulently. No wonder the due diligence is being examined. In the US these sort of shenanigans will get you 100 years in super max. In the UK it only merits a wrap on the knuckles.

#242 Talisman

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 19:41

Were FOM a Japanese company, Bernie would have been long gone, and in fact may have committed suicide.


What? Like Olympus?

#243 Slartibartfast

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 22:42

It's relatively simple.

There is a code of conduct to be adhered to in Japanese corporate culture...something missing from Western corporate culture at large.

That Bernie is still going along running FOM in spite of the storm clouds tells you everything that you need to know about the sort of idiocy that permeates the Western ethos of proper behavior. Improper behavior is justified as long as the profits continue rolling in. Were FOM a Japanese company, Bernie would have been long gone, and in fact may have committed suicide.

There are cultures where revealing business dealings to outsiders, and the government is the ultimate outsider, would mean death for the person responsible for the revelation. There are cultures where Bernie Ecclestone's business ethics would see him leading the country. None of that is relevant, as far as I can see. Please explain the relevance of the Japanese businessman* to an issue involving European businessmen.








*Whose "crime" would more likely have been to have been responsible for bringing bad publicity to his company than bribery.

#244 BoschKurve

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:37

What? Like Olympus?


Olympus was an anomaly in my opinion.

#245 BoschKurve

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:37

There are cultures where revealing business dealings to outsiders, and the government is the ultimate outsider, would mean death for the person responsible for the revelation. There are cultures where Bernie Ecclestone's business ethics would see him leading the country. None of that is relevant, as far as I can see. Please explain the relevance of the Japanese businessman* to an issue involving European businessmen.








*Whose "crime" would more likely have been to have been responsible for bringing bad publicity to his company than bribery.


It was explanatory, sorry you don't see it that way.

#246 Talisman

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:18

Olympus was an anomaly in my opinion.


Yes an anomaly, just like TEPCO, Mugen or the green cross medical company.

Sorry I don't buy it. The Japanese are no cleaner or dirtier than anyone else. Where regulation and oversight allow there are equivalents of Bernie around to play dirty. Spend time in Japan and you will see plenty of cases of corporate misbehaviour on the news including bribery, and this is in a culture that tends towards covering things up too.

Its time to look beyond the cheap lazy stereotyping I'm afraid. Being Japanese myself I find it quite tiresome.

Edited by Talisman, 06 August 2013 - 05:22.


#247 fastlegs

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 06:20

It's time for Bernie to buy a house and set up shop in a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Germany. :)

#248 TriumphST

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 07:50

It's time for Bernie to buy a house and set up shop in a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Germany. :)



Far far too late for that.

But on a more factual note (report in the FT) Ecclestone et al were defending a documents disclosure motion made a couple of weeks ago in the action by Constantin Medien in their $171m action due to be heard late October. Ecclestone and Mullens ect, opposed it of course but the Justice Vos judgement has ordered disclosure of hundreds of documents relating to the sale in which the BayernLB's stake bought for $820m was soon refinanced to the tune of $2.8b.

Seemingly Justice Vos smelling a rat is insisting that CVC's head honcho Mackenzie be cross-examined when the case is heard, that won't please Mackenzie.

As said previously when the house of cards starts to tremble all those from the HMRC through to Bluewaters will be looking for a piece of Ecclestones backside, of course the Munich Prosecutor will have first bite......

But can Ecclestone go down without CVC going with him? Especially if (as I'd expect) the inducement to Ecclestone by CVC would have been on the basis of the reduction over market value Ecclestone could achieve and done with the collusion of CVC...could they have been unaware of how it was achieved?

Interesting times for CVC and Ecclestone, lots of midnight oil burning and red hot shredders methinks.

Edited by TriumphST, 06 August 2013 - 07:51.


#249 spacekid

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:28

Try as I might, and I know he is as much sinner as saint, I just don't dislike Bernie.

I know he has made some selfish deals, and is probably out of touch, but his charisma wins me over. I still find his interviews irreverant and amusing, and like that he's a bit of a wind up merchant.

The sport needs to move on from Bernie, but I don't want to see him end his days in prison. I hope he 'gets away with it'. And I'm pretty confident he will.

#250 TriumphST

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 16:21

Try as I might, and I know he is as much sinner as saint, I just don't dislike Bernie.

I know he has made some selfish deals, and is probably out of touch, but his charisma wins me over. I still find his interviews irreverant and amusing, and like that he's a bit of a wind up merchant.

The sport needs to move on from Bernie, but I don't want to see him end his days in prison. I hope he 'gets away with it'. And I'm pretty confident he will.


Frankly very few here thought this would run at all, however Gribkowsky's rightly serving 9-years and Ecclestones been indicted. So difficult to see where the confidence of Ecclestone 'getting away with it' emanates from, and should he be found guilty it's inconceivable he'd not find himself joining Gribkowsky, an outcome that would be entirely deserved.

And while it's easy to think of what he's supposed to have done as victimless, we all know there's no such thing....Ecclestone's no Robin Hood, best remembered he (allegedly) steals to buy his kids $100m homes, not to fund the children's cancer wards in Indian hospitals...