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Charges pressed against Bernie Ecclestone [merged]


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#301 chrisj

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 14:31

Very awkward arrival at court today:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/24831606

 

(UK only)

Genius!



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#302 MustangSally

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 14:38

My view still. He paid Gribkowsky to keep him onside during the threatened FOTA breakaway. Prior to that, Gribkowsky was an enemy who had confronted - even sued - Bernie twice and won.

The shares were undervalued but, hey, that's because the bank didn't have a clue. Look at all the other billions they lost and had to be rescued by the German taxpayer.

#303 TriumphST

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 15:08

I think he meant to do it. Seemed to say something to the photographers and called them something or other. I think he was suggesting they should go cover another story or something. Can't quite grasp what he said.

 

Maybe he did, but that doesn't explain why his trousers were on back to front...


Edited by TriumphST, 06 November 2013 - 19:05.


#304 TriumphST

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 19:09

"What I paid him was a very small amount, what I call an insurance policy," Ecclestone told a hearing at the High Court in London, calling it "quite a cheap insurance policy".

He said there was no link to a deal in which CVC paid BayernLB $830m for a 47pc stake in Formula One. "This issue was nothing to do with anyone except Gribkowsky and myself, nobody else."

 

 

Telegraph reporting, interestingly not Sylt.


Edited by TriumphST, 06 November 2013 - 19:10.


#305 Coops3

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 19:24

I think he meant to do it. Seemed to say something to the photographers and called them something or other. I think he was suggesting they should go cover another story or something. Can't quite grasp what he said.

 

Ah that's fine then, so long as F1 isn't in the hands of someone who's foxed by a revolving door.



#306 TriumphST

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 21:55

Are they queuing up now ?

 

"Swiss launch criminal probe into F1 bribery scandal"

"The investigation by Swiss prosecutors was triggered by the receipt of third party complaint. It will attempt to establish the facts of the case, whether it falls under Swiss jurisdiction and whether the payment was criminal under Swiss law. No charges have been laid."

 

http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz2j7I92x9F

 

 

"He inferred he could and probably would, I'm not sure (he didn't)," Ecclestone said. "I have a massive tax inquiry at the moment."

No further detail of that inquiry was provided.

 
Maybe unconnected, Ecclestone's evidence today.....
-------------------------------------------
Ecclestone was asked whether he denied making the payments to newspapers and the Formula One board in 2011 after Gerhard Gribkowsky was arrested on suspicion of receiving bribes. “This issue was nothing to do with anyone but Mr. Gribkowsky and myself,” he said today. “I was being shaken down.”
 
Was that a yes or a no?......

Edited by TriumphST, 07 November 2013 - 09:49.


#307 Buttoneer

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 00:14

 

"What I paid him was a very small amount, what I call an insurance policy," Ecclestone told a hearing at the High Court in London, calling it "quite a cheap insurance policy".

He said there was no link to a deal in which CVC paid BayernLB $830m for a 47pc stake in Formula One. "This issue was nothing to do with anyone except Gribkowsky and myself, nobody else."

 

 

Telegraph reporting, interestingly not Sylt.

 

Sylt was writing up a positive spin on the story for The Independent.

 

http://www.independe...le-8923641.html



#308 Seano

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 00:57

Quite sad to see an old boy who struggles to comprehend technology like doors having to appear in Court. He seems to be totally baffled when he flies out in the direction in which he entered.

 

Even sadder that he controls F1- perhaps it would be kinder to him to keep him behind a locked door now for his safety and our sanity and wallets.

 

Seano



#309 TriumphST

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:24

Sylt was writing up a positive spin on the story for The Independent.

 

http://www.independe...le-8923641.html

 

Thanks for the heads-up, missed that one.

 

Did catch the story elsewhere, but wouldn't go out of the way to see a Sylt article for the reason you cite.

 

Question...does '''Christian Sylt''' actually exist?  



#310 ensign14

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:23

Quite sad to see an old boy who struggles to comprehend technology like doors having to appear in Court. He seems to be totally baffled when he flies out in the direction in which he entered.

 

It's the Rolls Building, it's 50-50 whether any given door will work on any given day.



#311 swerved

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:35

When there's a chancer in the chancery its never an open and shut case.



#312 string158

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:33

I thought he was doing it on purpose to look senile?



#313 SophieB

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 13:23

@tomcary_tel2m

Interesting morning. Mr Marshall QC spent most of it suggesting to BE that he was desperate to hang on to control of f1

 

@tomcary_tel3m

At one point Ecclestone asked to agree that he didn't like democracy and others having a say in F1. "Yes, it is my view..and not just in F1"



#314 MichaelJP

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 13:51

I thought he was doing it on purpose to look senile?

 

That's the beauty of Bernie's act, no one quite knows if he's serious, joking, or an idiot. In most cases those betting on the last one have been wrong. Up to now.



#315 Rinehart

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 14:18

He's 82 and still in control. He might be a lot of things but he isn't an idiot. 

He's also got a lot of friends in high places and a lot of highly paid people in important places.

 

Literally cannot believe that his entrance to the building has been described as "bizarre" and even made the news.



#316 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 14:43

He looked very, very nervous. And speechless when asked a question. A rare but telling sign that Bernie is indeed human. How odd.

He'll probably skate.He always has.



#317 TriumphST

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 15:54

It's the Rolls Building, it's 50-50 whether any given door will work on any given day.

 

On this day the doors he tried actually worked, but the one he finally went in through was an internally activated exit door. Were it not for some kind women opening it (outwards and nearly bowling him over) he'd still be there, nose pressed up agin the glass...

 

Seems Ecclestone has cause to be grateful to a "domestic appliance" for sparing his blushes...



#318 Craigster

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 21:35

Sylt was writing up a positive spin on the story for The Independent.

http://www.independe...le-8923641.html


Shouldn't the damages amount be something for the court to disclose not a journalist? How could this guy be the only person to know about it? Don't understand why a big deal is being made of him writing for so many papers and so many rival papers though. If they want to take it then why not?

#319 SophieB

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:41

Whoah.

 

The Telegraph: Eddie Jordan, Alain Prost and Tom Walkinshaw were paid $10 million (£6.2  million) each to “ensure” that they signed the 1998 Concorde Agreement, it emerged in an unexpected twist in the High Court on Thursday.

 

“They were paid to ensure that their teams did sign. Isn’t that right?” Marshall asked. “Yes,” Ecclestone said. Asked why the payments had not been made to the teams themselves, and suggesting that they were in fact “very strange”, Ecclestone said he had “not the slightest idea” what the three people named had done with the money. “I’ve no idea. They were paid to sign the Concorde Agreement and that’s what they did. What you’re inferring is these people haven’t been acting correctly, Alain Prost and whatever.”

 

 


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#320 FredF1

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:47

Unexpected twist it may have been but it pretty much confirms paddock gossip at the time that Bernie was out to stymie Williams, McLaren and Tyrrell's objections to the new concorde agreement. IIRC, Eddie Jordan complained afterwards that, if he'd known what exactly he was signing away - team merchandising rights is what he specifically mentioned, he'd have never done so. Still, I suppose he really needed that new helicopter. :rolleyes:



#321 TriumphST

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:53

Hardly a surprise as to what you'd find when the lid was finally prised off F1..... And while Ecclestone has this hurdle to negotiate before Munich, HMRC and Bluewaters et al, after a week it's not looking too promising.

 

I think Judge Newey has probably heard enough.

 

Wondering if Eddie will clarify what happened to the $10m or perhaps appear in defence of his pal....Also waiting for Mullens to appear and what he's got to say.....


Edited by TriumphST, 08 November 2013 - 11:13.


#322 Timstr11

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:59

Wow. This is explosive news.

Eddie Jordan and Alain Prost took personal bribes? I think they should leave their current roles unless they can prove they put the money into thier respective teams.

 

As far as I'm concerned this proves that bribery is Ecclestone's modus operandi.


Edited by Timstr11, 08 November 2013 - 10:02.


#323 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:58

It's not surprising that deals are done under the table, but the method and direction of payment is a real issue.  I wonder how the speech to the troops went at the factory?  "I can assure you that signing was the best decision for the team.  Yes you'll all have to take a pay freeze because we're losing some income rights, but at least you'll have jobs and we have ensures the long term future of the sport.  We're all in this together."

 

I am impressed that Eddie managed to leverage a bt more than Prost and Walkinshaw.  Do you think he will be in the paddock for the USGP?

 

My favourite part; “What you’re inferring is these people haven’t been acting correctly, Alain Prost and whatever.”  Well yes, Bernie, he is, but offering them and paying them is the point you need to be concerned about.



#324 scheivlak

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:10

 

I am impressed that Eddie managed to leverage a bt more than Prost and Walkinshaw.  Do you think he will be in the paddock for the USGP?

 

In 2001 £7million was about $10 million - though fluctuating during the year http://www.freecurre...ry/USD-GBP/2001

Nowadays £7million would be more than $10 million......



#325 Coops3

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:12

Why am I not surprised.



#326 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:31

In 2001 £7million was about $10 million - though fluctuating during the year http://www.freecurre...ry/USD-GBP/2001

Nowadays £7million would be more than $10 million......

Thanks, I hadn't spotted the different currencies. :blush:



#327 Coops3

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:12

I wasn't following F1 very closely in 1998. Does anyone remember what the sticking points were with the Concorde Agreement?



#328 FredF1

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 13:14

I wasn't following F1 very closely in 1998. Does anyone remember what the sticking points were with the Concorde Agreement?

 

Here's Wiki's take on it. http://en.wikipedia....ment_.281998.29

 

IIRC, the teams ceded all rights to their own image/brand to Bernie's companies (in the same way he owns all televisiual rights) in exchange for an annual 'royalty' payment. Which, it being Bernie, was worth nothing like the amount he was raking in from licensing F1 merchandise. So the teams went to great lengths and expense of designing liveries and competing on track to garner a fanbase only for Bernie to make lots of money off them. As an anecdote. I was at the Italian GP in 2001. Jordan had set up a liitle kiosk (similar to the ones selling race programmes but in the team colours) outside the Paddock which was flogging off team merchandise. One moment it was doing a brisk trade but, on coming back less than half an hour or so later, it was completely abandoned and looked like someone had tried to physically dismantle it as one side was hanging loose. I daresay *someone* had a word.



#329 SophieB

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 13:55

More updates/reaction:

 

@_MarkGallagher28m

Read the reports @easonF1 & @tomcary_tel re BE's court case. The '01 payments to Mssrs Prost, Jordan & Walkinshaw are no surprise. Normal.

 

alanbaldwinf11h

Going through transcript from Bernie's court appearance yesterday, throws up some revealing asides.

"I do sign everything that is put in front of me..if I read everything that I signed I wouldn't be able to do what I do on my day-to-day job. I forgot what I signed and never signed..When I was 50 years old I might have been able to remember.. Today I don't remember the things I...what happened three days ago, some things."

@alanbaldwinf11h

Mr E's replies are often "Hmm". And he has to be reminded that "the transcript doesn't see you nodding your head. You have to say 'Yes'"

 

@tomcary_tel44m

Early break for lunch at the high court due to fire alarm. Bernie was up for continuing "through the fire" but judge decided against.



#330 Slackbladder

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 13:57

I'm sorry, but F1 is just run in such an utterly dodgy and amazing way for what is a billion pound series.

 

It's utterly shocking...

 

Edit: And frankly who the hell lets Bernie still run things.. it's amazing.


Edited by Slackbladder, 08 November 2013 - 13:58.


#331 string158

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 14:12

wow, makes you wish they had gone ahead with the break away a few years ago. 

I feel like this case might have some quite big impacts on F1.



#332 Shambolic

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 14:26

Edit: And frankly who the hell lets Bernie still run things.. it's amazing.

 

The people he continues to make exceedingly wealthy (by everyday standards, if not by global morally bankrupt standards).

 

The teams offload what they see as "work" onto him, in return the teams themselves get a pittance, and as is now admitted, the team owners get a nice retirement fund backhander for their compliance. CVC let him get awaay with it because they can hide behind him as plausible deniability, whilst keeping someone who is as fixated with extortion and greed as they are.

 

Who's going to stop him when he can make a Williams, a Dennis, a Brawn, a Jordan, etc all incredibly wealthy, and even help them play with their toys a few weekends a year?



#333 Coops3

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 14:54

Here's Wiki's take on it. http://en.wikipedia....ment_.281998.29

 

IIRC, the teams ceded all rights to their own image/brand to Bernie's companies (in the same way he owns all televisiual rights) in exchange for an annual 'royalty' payment. Which, it being Bernie, was worth nothing like the amount he was raking in from licensing F1 merchandise. So the teams went to great lengths and expense of designing liveries and competing on track to garner a fanbase only for Bernie to make lots of money off them. As an anecdote. I was at the Italian GP in 2001. Jordan had set up a liitle kiosk (similar to the ones selling race programmes but in the team colours) outside the Paddock which was flogging off team merchandise. One moment it was doing a brisk trade but, on coming back less than half an hour or so later, it was completely abandoned and looked like someone had tried to physically dismantle it as one side was hanging loose. I daresay *someone* had a word.

Interesting, thanks  :up:



#334 Tonka

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 01:06

Are we likely to hear Gary Anderson's opinions on how Jordan ran his team at the next race?

 

Bernie started selling secondhand bikes as a teenager in Dartford, he has never aimed any higher than buying cheap, selling dear and if you've got a problem with the product - hard shit.  When he finally kicks the bucket, we'll be hearing a lot about his business deals and exactly how he got to run F1.  The details may surprise, but the methods won't.



#335 Murl

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:50

I'm wondering if Jordan, Walkinshaw and Prost have a tax bill coming?



#336 maximilian

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:35

Good luck getting Walkinshaw to pay it.



#337 packapoo

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:18

The people he continues to make exceedingly wealthy (by everyday standards, if not by global morally bankrupt standards).

The teams offload what they see as "work" onto him, in return the teams themselves get a pittance, and as is now admitted, the team owners get a nice retirement fund backhander for their compliance. CVC let him get awaay with it because they can hide behind him as plausible deniability, whilst keeping someone who is as fixated with extortion and greed as they are.

Who's going to stop him when he can make a Williams, a Dennis, a Brawn, a Jordan, etc all incredibly wealthy, and even help them play with their toys a few weekends a year?



#338 packapoo

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:21

How'd you make the leap to Dennis? Or even Brawn?
Williams is a known; Jordan's a revelation, but the other two?

#339 SophieB

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 07:08

More from the Bernie trial, with Tom Cary continuing to do great work for the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph...High-Court.html

Marshall had repeatedly asked Ecclestone whether he regarded “the payment of bribes to people who are not public officials as acceptable”. “I will have to think about that,” Ecclestone had said. “I wish I would have thought about it before actually.”



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#340 Seano

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:31

Oh dear, oh dear. He's not doing himself any favours here- Judges don't like people changing their story as they go along. So much for his "I'll think about if I need to" comments of the Summer.

 

He's already managed to drop Eddie Jordan deep in it (bet he's got fashionable brown underpants now), I wonder if he will manage to cause Spanker Mosely problems too.

 

Loving it! Come on HMRC!!

 

Seano



#341 Tonka

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:59

I bet Todt is following every twist and turn.  If there's the slightest whiff of dodgy dealings over the sale of the commercial rights of F1 by Spanker, Todt will be thinking of getting the sale terminated.

 

Be funny if Bernie gets sent down for comtempt should he continue lying to the judge.



#342 fer312t

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:23

the slightest whiff of dodgy dealings over the sale of the commercial rights of F1 by Spanker, Todt will be thinking of getting the sale terminated.

 

Could that legitimately happen? I mean the commercial rights coming out from under the thumb of the CVC...



#343 metz

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:45

Of course. Todt, Bernie and Max are one and the same person.

They can cancel their own deal, keep the money and sell it again.

Very possible.



#344 Tonka

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:52

Could that legitimately happen? I mean the commercial rights coming out from under the thumb of the CVC...

 

If corruption is proved - anything is possible.  Spanker flogged F1 for around a fiver a race over 99 years.  How did he come up with that figure?



#345 Seano

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:31

I think the problem might be proving that all of these separate legal entities are really all Bernard Charles Eccleston Esq if you wanted to try and null and void the deal. Some of us might believe this to be the case but that's not the same thing and there are huge sums at stake.

 

But at the moment he is vulnerable and now might be a very good time for a few shrewd people to set up a breakaway series and cut out all of the greed and corruption in Paris and London.

 

Seano



#346 TriumphST

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 15:50

If corruption is proved - anything is possible.  Spanker flogged F1 for around a fiver a race over 99 years.  How did he come up with that figure?

Maybe he got a $400m bond repayment....


Edited by TriumphST, 10 November 2013 - 12:35.


#347 TriumphST

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:21

Seems Ecclestone (FT report) completed his final scheduled half-day of giving evidence, no news apparently and none of the 'clarification' promised last Friday.

 

This time it was memory loss, strange for a man much vaunted for keeping everything in his head and deals struck on the shake of the hand....Interestingly though that Ecclestone says he was unconcerned at the 'breakaway threat' at the time of the CVC takeover. Because later he would justify its seriousness at every opportunity as the reason the price paid was so low. 

 

In response to a question as to why Ecclestone had demanded a board statement saying he couldn't be sacked. He stated that deals couldn't be done if people were unsure whether he (Ecclestone) would still be in place and deals like a "just completed $600m deal"(but no details so it may simply be another figment of BE's imagination) probably wouldn't occur.

 

Mullens replace's Ecclestone in the box, revealing he was present in 2006 when Gribkowsky was shaking Mr Ecclestone like a rag doll trying to get £27m out of him but he (Mullens) insisted it wasn't blackmail, stating "I don't think putting pressure on people is necessarily blackmail" nevertheless just like Ecclestone, he never considered that seeking professional advice on the matter and saving his employer £27m in the process, might be a good idea.....Unless of course £27m was being paid for something entirely different purpose...

 

Mullens also revealed he borrowed $17m from Mrs E (2), she apparently would later get a court order for its return (no detail on what it was for or apparently proof it or the court order ever occurred)..... However this would probably be about the time Gribkowsky was making waves about his scheduled payments from Ecclestone along with a couple of additional million for currency fluctuations which Gribkowsky felt Ecclestone owed him. 

 

Mullens also says that he was removed as by the Bambino Trust as their representative from the Delta Topco board. My recollection was he resigned from all  connection with Ecclestone at that time ( I thought it because he seen the risks and wanted out?), whatever the case by his own admission he failed to inform Delta Topco or indeed anyone with a legitimate right to know, what was going on. Justifying this lack of professional probity on the basis it wasn't 'problematical for them'...

 

So more obfuscation but not unexpected, when the truth isn't an option and an outright lie won't do.  But you'd have to ask when this trio are going to wake up, and finally smell the coffee, surely it can't last 6-weeks.



#348 Nemo1965

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:38

I think that F1 earns Mr. Ecclestone a great deal. But now Mr. Ecclestone owns F1 a great deal. As far as I can reconstruct, at the end of the eighties he was only detrimental to the sport. 
 

Pity... because I think that Bernie once was a true motorsport-fan...



#349 Seano

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:46

I doubt they can smell anything over the stench of greed and corruption!

And this is only the starter.

#350 Nemo1965

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:52

The question is indeed, as some posters suggested, if an indictment of Ecclestone could mean a wrestling away of the commercial rights from CVC...