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Charges pressed against Bernie Ecclestone [merged]


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#351 basjaski

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 13:38

I'm terribly confused to what is actually going on with this case.

 

As far as I can figure out, a German is sueing him for the 3rd time because the German got in a spot of bother and is now in prison, and is pointing the finger at Bernie. The German is saying that Bernie bribed him for a bit of tax evading, and Bernie is saying the German shook him down.

 

Walkingshaw, Jordan And Prost all took a ''bribe'' to sign the concorde in 1998. Jordan claims he never knew what he signed (always the brightest boy in class).

 

Somehow the sale of F1 is involved and the complete future of F1.

 

I admit I'm missing quite a few parts here and would love a very short recap, but I fail to see how this puts the future of F1 at stake. 

 

Must admit, I do quite like Bernie. Yes he's done the odd bit of tax dodging but I can see the humour in most of his comments,i think he's only half serious most of the time. :p



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#352 scheivlak

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 13:59

I'm terribly confused to what is actually going on with this case.

Well, that's pretty clear   ;)

 

For a start, there are several different court cases, in Britain and Germany with a US party also somewhere in the background waiting to join in IIRC. They are not started by the guy in prison (mr. Gribkowsky), but he's just a kind of witness by now - as a result of his confessions. 

 

A fundamental one will be next year in Germany, not by one of the parties involved in the CVC deal but by the public prosecution in Germany for bribery. 



#353 basjaski

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 17:43

Thanks Scheivlak (brilliant corner, used to go there when I still lived in Zandvoort on a daily basis!)



#354 SophieB

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 18:12

Reuters: CVC would fire F1 boss Ecclestone if found guilty
 

 

Formula One shareholder CVC would not hesitate to sack motor sport boss Bernie Ecclestone if he had committed a crime in his dealings with a jailed German banker, CVC co-founder Donald Mackenzie told a court on Monday. [...]

 

"If it is proven that Mr Ecclestone has done anything that is criminally wrong, we would fire him,"  Mackenzie told a hearing at London's High Court.



#355 BRG

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 18:19

It really looks like time has run out for Bernie.

 

:clap:



#356 Ellios

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 18:22

 

 

I hope Donald Mackenzie doesn't own horses...



#357 Seano

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 19:01

Two things spring to mind

 

criminally <> morally

proven <> known

 

Still the old bad boy had better make hay while the sun shines.

 

Seano

 

And maybe buy a new tooth brush and a stash of snout.



#358 Fastcake

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 19:07

 

I don't know what the arrangements are within the F1 group, but it should be noted CVC sold off a stake last year, and no longer own a majority stake. Can they do that by themselves now?



#359 TriumphST

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 17:29

Formula One shareholder CVC would not hesitate to sack motor sport boss Bernie Ecclestone if he had committed a crime in his dealings with a jailed German banker, CVC co-founder Donald Mackenzie told a court on Monday. [...]

 

"If it is proven that Mr Ecclestone has done anything that is criminally wrong, we would fire him,"  Mackenzie told a hearing at London's High Court.

 

Hope someone mention's this to Mosley who says  not without FIA approval, there again it was (according to Mosley) intended to safeguard the FIA from having an undesirable controlling the commercial rights and bringing the FIA into disrepute.

 

Difficult to see someone more disreputable then Ecclestone..says it all really.



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#360 Nemo1965

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 17:56

I'm terribly confused to what is actually going on with this case.

 

As far as I can figure out, a German is sueing him for the 3rd time because the German got in a spot of bother and is now in prison, and is pointing the finger at Bernie. The German is saying that Bernie bribed him for a bit of tax evading, and Bernie is saying the German shook him down.

 

Walkingshaw, Jordan And Prost all took a ''bribe'' to sign the concorde in 1998. Jordan claims he never knew what he signed (always the brightest boy in class).

 

Somehow the sale of F1 is involved and the complete future of F1.

 

I admit I'm missing quite a few parts here and would love a very short recap, but I fail to see how this puts the future of F1 at stake. 

 

Must admit, I do quite like Bernie. Yes he's done the odd bit of tax dodging but I can see the humour in most of his comments,i think he's only half serious most of the time. :p

 

I like Ecclestone too, and I think without him the sport would have been poorer... in both the literal and figurative sense. However, his dealings of the last ten years have been shameless and very damaging to the sport. In another thread I wrote: 

 

I have to say my pleasure in F1 is diminished, not because of Vettel but by the shamefull way the money divided in F1 right now. I know the Concorde Agreement 1.0 was a shameless, monopolistic 'divide-and-rule'-agreement aim to protect already established teams... but the revelations (also posted on this Forum how the current agreements (Concorde 2.0) make it almost impossible for any team to overtake Red Bull or Ferrari is like a bit fat turd sitting like a crown on the head of F1.

 

Gross? Yes. I think that serious F1 journalists the next three years should hammer this knowledge into the motorsport-fanbase, untill some changes are made. 



#361 TriumphST

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 17:56

Priceless......

 

Apparently in February 2011 after repeated earlier denials to the contrary 'Ecclestone says to Mackenzie 

"He told me that he had had a meeting with one of his colleagues who had reminded him that he had made payments to Gribkowsky and he apologised for having forgotten this," Mackenzie told the court.

"He told me he had never lied to me and I must say that I had trouble believing you could forget payment of $40 million," Mackenzie makes the point giving evidence yesterday.

 

 

But wasn't it early Feb 2011 that CVC and the board of Formula One’s holding company, Delta Topco, appointed Ernst & Young LLP and law firm Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP to investigate the circumstances surrounding the Formula One takeover in 2006, that subsaquently gave them a 'clean bill of health'?

 

So if Mackenzie knew by then, what was the point in paying all that cash for lawyers/accountants to tell you what you already knew?  And wasn't it material to the investigation and ought to have been disclosed....or was the thought of a IPO too alluring?


Edited by TriumphST, 19 November 2013 - 18:09.


#362 TriumphST

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 20:37

I don't know what the arrangements are within the F1 group, but it should be noted CVC sold off a stake last year, and no longer own a majority stake. Can they do that by themselves now?

They sold off two I thought, but were left with around 35% they have the largest holding and I believe retain voting rights over the stakes they sold off.

 

So I suppose the answer is yes, unless for once in his life Mosley isn't being his usual mendacious self.. 


Edited by TriumphST, 19 November 2013 - 20:41.


#363 swerved

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 23:46

They're gathering...

 

An MP is calling for a Serious Fraud Office probe into the financial affairs of Formula One chief Bernie Ecclestone

 

 

The Labour MP said: "We cannot just walk away from this case. It does seem to me that we have a duty to investigate this. What is the Serious Fraud Office for if not for investigating cases like this?"

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25307307.



#364 Seano

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 00:40

Strange when you consider Blair was once all up for accepting a large gift from Bernie!

 

I still think the status/purpose of Bambino entity and its legitimacy is the best place for HMRC to start.

 

Once you have done that you can take an opinion as to whether its actions are in line with its purpose or whether some fraudulent activity has taken place.

 

But you are right, the pack have the scent and its not werthers original, rich tea biscuits and wee.

 

Seano



#365 OvDrone

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:16

The dude did a lot of *cough* cool/nice/whatever 'things' for 'our' 'sport' but all the shiekh-bowing, Silverstone (and/or most of Europe) finger pointing, revolving door-ing, medal sprinkler dhabi-double, Max BFFing, prime minister of lower Asia gridwalk'o'Brundle-thon, bribe inducing, YouTube deleting, 'F1-Supremo', passive dickish money laundering, Vettel humping, Horner in Dubrovnik loving shenanigans must come to an end gov'. Time to hang the coat, mate. Don't be a Mugabe/Ceausescu/Kim Jong Whatever...



#366 Petroltorque

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 06:21

Strange when you consider Blair was once all up for accepting a large gift from Bernie!

 

I still think the status/purpose of Bambino entity and its legitimacy is the best place for HMRC to start.

 

Once you have done that you can take an opinion as to whether its actions are in line with its purpose or whether some fraudulent activity has taken place.

 

But you are right, the pack have the scent and its not werthers original, rich tea biscuits and wee.

 

Seano

Blair can hardly be taken as an example of moral rectitude. I think now that the politicians are emboldened to voice an opinion, its probably the slippery slope for Ecclestone and by association CVC/



#367 BRG

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 21:02

its probably the slippery slope for Ecclestone 

Is it OK if I give him a shove?  



#368 Rob

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 22:45

Hopefully the selling of the FIA's commercial rights to Bernie will be investigated.



#369 R Soul

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 23:36

Nah, that 100 year contract was well above board.



#370 Seano

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 00:29

High Court reserved judgement now swinging over him - what a nice Christmas present!

 

I guess that means his defence wasn't strong enough to convince the Judge outright of his innocence and that the Judge needs time to decide the outcome from all of the evidence and arguments that have been presented to Court.

 

I wish the German case would start - I'd like to see him scuttling from Court to Court.

 

Seano



#371 Seano

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 00:44

Nah, that 100 year contract was well above board.

Maybe as a document it is but I'm not so sure about how the EU would consider it. Clearly it was a boffo wheeze that Bernie cooked up with Spanker to sell the Crown Jewels for ten bob - but no one else had the chance to bid. I'm not sure of the status of the FIA as its a world wide sporting association based in Paris. Is it a private entity or quasi public? Then again the BBC/Sky stitch up on Channel 4 should be looked at was that in consumers best interest?   



#372 Petroltorque

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 06:53

The elephant in the room has got to be the 100 year concession on the sport's commercial rights! I can't think of a single global franchise that sells its rights for that long. Would it not have been more prudent to have the rights for a 10-15 year cycle? At the time of the sale the sport was grossing $500 millions a year. Wouldn't questions been asked at the World Council meeting at the time of the sale or did Mosely put it through on the QT and present it as a fait accompli at the meeting? 

 As for the sale to CVC, I don't know which is  worse, the fact that they acquired the rights or that  they have leveraged their equity in the sport to raise capital for other investments.


Edited by Petroltorque, 14 December 2013 - 06:56.


#373 ensign14

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 07:28

Maybe as a document it is but I'm not so sure about how the EU would consider it. Clearly it was a boffo wheeze that Bernie cooked up with Spanker to sell the Crown Jewels for ten bob - but no one else had the chance to bid. I'm not sure of the status of the FIA as its a world wide sporting association based in Paris. Is it a private entity or quasi public? Then again the BBC/Sky stitch up on Channel 4 should be looked at was that in consumers best interest?   

 

The EU directly approved it.  But then again that's the EU for you.  The Eurocrat who smiled on the plan was of course Romano Prodi, who was so corrupt he ended up Italian PM.

 

As for the reserved judgment, that's normal.  I doubt that the claimants will win.  Not because there was nothing iffy going on, but that they won't be able to prove that the iffy behaviour caused the loss.  It's like a drunk driver killing a pedestrian who darts into the road unexpectedly.  The drunkenness is an offence in itself, but if a sober and careful driver would still have killed the careless pedestrian, they can't be found guilty for manslaughter.



#374 R Soul

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 20:39

Maybe as a document it is but I'm not so sure about how the EU would consider it. 

 Just pointing out that I was being sarcastic.



#375 Seano

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 00:45

As a contract I'm sure it is well constructed. As for the EU investigation that was really into separating the Sporting interests from the commercial activity which is what the bizarre 100 year term for 10 bob deal was all about. It ostensibly established clear division between the role of the FIA and whoever controlled the commercial activity.

 

However I don't think that the EU has ever considered whether the choice of who had the contract for the commercial activity and how much they should pay the FIA for it.

 

I struggle to see how it could be tendered within EU regulations when it now transpires that any winning commercial entity had to provide a Mr Bernie Ecclestone to run the activity. There's only one of those in the world and frankly that's one too many.

 

Seano



#376 TriumphST

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 15:06

The EU directly approved it.  But then again that's the EU for you.  The Eurocrat who smiled on the plan was of course Romano Prodi, who was so corrupt he ended up Italian PM.

 

As for the reserved judgment, that's normal.  I doubt that the claimants will win.  Not because there was nothing iffy going on, but that they won't be able to prove that the iffy behaviour caused the loss.  It's like a drunk driver killing a pedestrian who darts into the road unexpectedly.  The drunkenness is an offence in itself, but if a sober and careful driver would still have killed the careless pedestrian, they can't be found guilty for manslaughter.

 

Wasn't it the principle of commercial vs sporting separation that they (EU) endorsed. One can't blame Prodi, however corrupt he might have been, for what occurred during that separation. That was down to Ecclestone and Mosley carving up the FIA...... 

 

Edit: Will Ecclestone, et al win, well frankly there's too much circumstantial evidence for him to get off. But using your analogy, were  that driver discovered drunk or sober to have had a wager on killing a pedestrian within a specified period with his car wouldn't that put an entirely different complexion on the 'accident' and in essence with Ecclestone wouldn't it be paramount to paying $2b for F1 lock stock and barrel and less the 12 months later be looking to recapitalise to the tune of $5b. $3b would I'm sure be seen as quite motivational  by any Judge.....

 

In any event the significance of those later valuations or even pre 05/06 valuations allied to $44m changing hands for no good reason and the glue that cements all this together that can't be ignored is Gerhard Gribkowsky serving 9-years in a German jail, simply can't have been lost on Justice Newey.

 

And bearing in mind this case is civil not criminal and will be settled on the 'balance of probabilities'....I suspect Ecclestone will be having some sleepless nights over XMas and will be a few bob poorer in the New Year.

 

And now BayernLB's spokesperson has intimated the bank's looking for $400+ along with the $66m commission  from Ecclestone and expects to issue a writ against the little man before january's out in the UK's High Court.......... 


Edited by TriumphST, 07 January 2014 - 21:43.


#377 Timstr11

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 10:21

Munich prosecutors' office announces Bernie Ecclestone will stand trial on bribery charges. Trial date likely to be at the end of April

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-25756973


Edited by Timstr11, 16 January 2014 - 10:26.


#378 Slackbladder

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 10:23

It seems we have a fan/**** impact for Mr Ecclestone.



#379 Newbrray

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 10:39

 

Munich prosecutors' office announces Bernie Ecclestone will stand trial on bribery charges. Trial date likely to be at the end of April

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-25756973

 

 

How ironic though, Bernie faces bribery trial in Germany and at the same time he reaches into his back pocket with his left hand and offers another form of bribe (Buying and bailing out the troubled Nurburgring) to Germany to probably get a favourable outcome in the trial.....

 

I know it sounds a bit warped but thats the way it comes across especially due to the impeccable timing of the events.....coincidence, I think not

 

http://gptoday.com/f...he_Nurburgring/


Edited by Newbrray, 16 January 2014 - 10:41.


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#380 boldhakka

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:19

Saward seems to think that the actual indictment will result is some consequences:

http://joesaward.wor.../now-it-begins/

http://joesaward.wor...on-the-f1-pond/



#381 Risil

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:27

An indictment without consequences wouldn't really be an indictment, would it?  ;)

 

Interesting times ahead for F1. Maybe Dorna can run it?



#382 UPRC

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:27

Good, something that may finally get rid of Ecclestone for us. I was starting to worry that the only thing that would make Bernie step down is death because the man just refuses to budge. This can only lead to good things. Ecclestone gets what he deserves (we've always known that he's a bit crooked) and pressure gets put on CVC to inject some fresh blood into F1 management.



#383 Ellios

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:31

An indictment without consequences wouldn't really be an indictment, would it?   ;)

 

Interesting times ahead for F1. Maybe Dorna can run it?

 

 

Yes very interesting, I'll be watching Red Bull closer especially what Christian Horner says and does...



#384 Disgrace

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:32

The real point of those Saward articles is the rightful scepticism of CVCs ability to choose a successor.



#385 Risil

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:34

The real point of those Saward articles is the rightful scepticism of CVCs ability to choose a successor.

 

I'm sure they'll just ask the Glazer family for advice.



#386 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:34

I think he's right.  There are businesses who will not take at all well to be associated with anything run by someone who has even been accused of impropriety, regardless of whether they might ultimately be convicted.  One might normally expect the Director of a multinational corporation to step back, or down, in order to deal with accusations like this and come back only when their name has been cleared.  That way, if the verdict goes badly for them, they are far enough away from the business to ensure they do not taint it too much.

 

It will be very interesting to see what happens here and whether CVC can and do take that approach.



#387 Rinehart

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:36

I'm terribly confused to what is actually going on with this case.

 

All you need to know is that facts won't come into it.

Its all about power as ever.

Some will be influencing the Bernie corner, others will stand to gain if he's locked up. I don't care if its in an actual court. We're talking govt & bank level fun and games here.

Eventually Ferrari will decide what's best! 



#388 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:38

Perhaps he just needs to hold a bunga bunga party then?



#389 Petroltorque

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:05

As my long departed grandmother used to say "when a fish rots it stinks from the head...". The same situation pertains at FOM. What seems to have done for BCE is that Justice Newey used the B word during his recent trial. Bernie can marshal his legions to gain as much positive spin as he likes but fact remains criminal cases in Germany are Judge and not Jury based.  It's a bit like the situation before Stalin's death where no one wanted to break ranks for fear of reprisals...



#390 Slackbladder

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:31

Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 3 mins
Sky sources: Bernie Ecclestone to stand down as the boss of Formula One and will go on trial on bribery charges in Germany in April

He's gone!!!



#391 SophieB

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:37

Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 3 mins
Sky sources: Bernie Ecclestone to stand down as the boss of Formula One and will go on trial on bribery charges in Germany in April

He's gone!!!


I'm not sure whether that's just for the duration of the trial (supposing for the sake of argument that he is cleared of charges.) Also:

Pete Gill‏@skysportspete·49 secs
To clarify: Bernie Ecclestone stepping down from F1 board but will still run sport on a day-to-day basis 'subject to increased monitoring'

#392 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:40

Exactly.  Still has his hands firmly on the tiller, as far as I can see. He is just no longer an officer of the company.



#393 Slackbladder

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:40

I'm not sure whether that's just for the duration of the trial (supposing for the sake of argument that he is cleared of charges.) Also:

Pete Gill‏@skysportspete·49 secs
To clarify: Bernie Ecclestone stepping down from F1 board but will still run sport on a day-to-day basis 'subject to increased monitoring'

 

Talk about blooming dodgy...

 

In legal terms he's still acting as a director if that's the situation (see 'shadow director').



#394 tifosiMac

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:40

Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 3 mins
Sky sources: Bernie Ecclestone to stand down as the boss of Formula One and will go on trial on bribery charges in Germany in April

He's gone!!!

The best news I have heard in a long time. Good riddance Bernie, shut the door on the way out.

 

EDIT: he'll step down from board of directors but will continue to run the sport..... Once there was hope lol.


Edited by tifosiMac, 16 January 2014 - 13:45.


#395 Andy35

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:46

I think he's right.  There are businesses who will not take at all well to be associated with anything run by someone who has even been accused of impropriety, regardless of whether they might ultimately be convicted.  One might normally expect the Director of a multinational corporation to step back, or down, in order to deal with accusations like this and come back only when their name has been cleared.  That way, if the verdict goes badly for them, they are far enough away from the business to ensure they do not taint it too much.

 

It will be very interesting to see what happens here and whether CVC can and do take that approach.

 

More than likely he will follow the lead of his good friend Max Mosley after the problems he had with the NOTW and instead not do the decent thing and instead cling on with both hands.

 

Andy



#396 Risil

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:46

'Increased monitoring'. :D



#397 Petroltorque

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:50

Exactly.  Still has his hands firmly on the tiller, as far as I can see. He is just no longer an officer of the company.

This illustrates what's wrong with the governance of FOM. Ecclestone is accused of a serious crime and as such should divest himself completely of any management roles. How are teams expected to drum up corporate backing, or companies like Daimler or Honda left to justify their investments with this spectre hanging over the sport.



#398 Slackbladder

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:52

'Increased monitoring'. :D

 

I wonder which tea boy/intern they'll have lurking behind him on the grid??



#399 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:55

'Increased monitoring'. :D

*IP logged"



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#400 SophieB

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 13:57


'Increased monitoring'. :D


*IP logged"


I'm picturing Bernie being peered at by Nick & Margaret from the British version of The Apprentice.