42 replies to this topic

[sennafan]

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

wow that was a megacrash. what was that marshaal doing in such a dangerous position? an injured marshall can't help the driver.

[Lotusseven]

OMG !! THat´s one of the worst crashes I ever seen and the driver and marshall survived the incident !

The accident happened at the Ferrari 458 Challenge event in Japan. The driver Shigeru Terajima lost control of the car on the track at the Suzuka circuit in straight start/finish and crashed in the wall to 200km / h where a worker was standing watching the race.
The Ferrari touches the wall and stays destroyed but luckily the pilot and worker survived.
Shigeru Terajima was taken to hospital in serious condition and the working man seeing the imminent crash dived out and managed to flee from the impact with the ferrari.
Check out the video with the terrible accident filming a person who watched the race ... SSupersports.altervista.org

Edited by Lotusseven, 20 May 2013 - 15:12.

[Sakae]

Track worker had nowhere to go but down; luckily debris, deflected by what was left from the wall flew above him.

Edited by Sakae, 20 May 2013 - 15:20.

[wingwalker]

Marshall was behind the barrier, but what an usual place to have such a furious crash it was. Tire failure?

[biercemountain]

That's insane. Glad they're both ok.

[muramasa]

The driver isnt ok, it was anounced at the end of last month that there was sign of recovery but no update for almost a month since then. By the looks of it he's still in serious condition, and tough road ahead.

Not much info on the injured marshal either. Reported as broken leg bone but extent of injury isnt made clear. Hopefully it's not serious.

btw Kobayashi was there for the event.


Suzuka is cursed recently , fatal accidents at 1st-2nd corner in oct & nov 2012, one for sports car and one for bike. not just that, serious/fatal accidents keep happening intermittently at Suzuka. Famous one is Daijiro Kato.
The T2 is an actual 1st corner for Suzuka, and runoff area there still isnt deep enough. Maybe runoff need to be expanded there, but in order to do so the spectator area there has to be reduced.

[jimjimjeroo]

http://japandailypre...circuit-1528878

Expected to make full recovery

[muramasa]

http://japandailypre...circuit-1528878

Expected to make full recovery

most likely incorrect. In that article the marshal is described as "essentianly unharmed", which is also wrong.

[BoschKurve]

The driver isnt ok, it was anounced at the end of last month that there was sign of recovery but no update for almost a month since then. By the looks of it he's still in serious condition, and tough road ahead.

Not much info on the injured marshal either. Reported as broken leg bone but extent of injury isnt made clear. Hopefully it's not serious.

btw Kobayashi was there for the event.


Suzuka is cursed recently , fatal accidents at 1st-2nd corner in oct & nov 2012, one for sports car and one for bike. not just that, serious/fatal accidents keep happening intermittently at Suzuka. Famous one is Daijiro Kato.
The T2 is an actual 1st corner for Suzuka, and runoff area there still isnt deep enough. Maybe runoff need to be expanded there, but in order to do so the spectator area there has to be reduced.

Just out of curiosity, what happened with the two accidents you mention from October and November 2012?

[muramasa]

Just out of curiosity, what happened with the two accidents you mention from October and November 2012?

Oct 2012, during Japan's Super Endurance series (endurance series for amateur racers) , several cars went off track riding on oil at T1 and crashed into barriers, in which one driver died.

Nov 2012, during practice session for amateurs, a rider lost control of his bike and fell off at T1, and dive into barrier and died.
Also I just found out another amateur rider dead during another practice session in Oct 2012.

[Sakae]

most likely incorrect. In that article the marshal is described as "essentianly unharmed", which is also wrong.

Was driver debrief as to what he thinks happened? (Was he experienced enough to drive in those speeds)?

_________

I should add that I do not wish to be insensitive about it, and I do not know in what condition driver actually is,

Edited by Sakae, 20 May 2013 - 20:16.

[muramasa]

Did abit of searching but no update about the driver's condition. Only info is "showing sign of improvement" at the end of April. From that I have to guess still in his coma and condition hasnt changed much unfortunately.

the driver is international C license holder and seems quite experienced. should be qualified enough coz, altho i dont know details about this event, it's Ferrari organized event so participants selection must be done properly.

[Sakae]

Thanks muramasa, certainly I wish to both men complete, and rapid recovery.

[Longtimefan]

My god, thats horrific.

[BoschKurve]

Oct 2012, during Japan's Super Endurance series (endurance series for amateur racers) , several cars went off track riding on oil at T1 and crashed into barriers, in which one driver died.

Nov 2012, during practice session for amateurs, a rider lost control of his bike and fell off at T1, and dive into barrier and died.
Also I just found out another amateur rider dead during another practice session in Oct 2012.

Thanks for the information muramasa.

I think it's easy to forget how dangerous motorsports are in spite of all the advances in safety.

I wasn't aware of Suzuka having had a number of issues within the past year. The crash referenced in the first post looks to be one though that was less Suzuka, and something that could have happened at any circuit.

[klyster]

Very nasty crash, I hope both recover.

The fuel must have dispersed instantly, it could have been so much worse.

[Talisman]

Suzuka is cursed recently , fatal accidents at 1st-2nd corner in oct & nov 2012, one for sports car and one for bike. not just that, serious/fatal accidents keep happening intermittently at Suzuka. Famous one is Daijiro Kato.
The T2 is an actual 1st corner for Suzuka, and runoff area there still isnt deep enough. Maybe runoff need to be expanded there, but in order to do so the spectator area there has to be reduced.

I have to say I haven't been that impressed by the level of marshalling at Suzuka.

Having seen Kato's infamous accident the way he was dragged off the track by the marshalls without having stabilised his neck may well have contributed to his death.

With this accident linked to here it happens just outside the pit area yet it takes minutes for marshalls and medics to arrive, even longer for an ambulance and kit. I accept that standards are frequently lower at club level racing regardless of the country but that footage was painful to watch for the delayed response.

Then there are the less important incidents like when a Ferrari (Irvine?) beached itself in the gravel at the hairpin and the recovery of the car took a stunningly long time.

Given that Suzuka is so unforgiving I do think standards need to be raised on this front.

[muramasa]

I have to say I haven't been that impressed by the level of marshalling at Suzuka.

Having seen Kato's infamous accident the way he was dragged off the track by the marshalls without having stabilised his neck may well have contributed to his death.

With this accident linked to here it happens just outside the pit area yet it takes minutes for marshalls and medics to arrive, even longer for an ambulance and kit. I accept that standards are frequently lower at club level racing regardless of the country but that footage was painful to watch for the delayed response.

Then there are the less important incidents like when a Ferrari (Irvine?) beached itself in the gravel at the hairpin and the recovery of the car took a stunningly long time.

Given that Suzuka is so unforgiving I do think standards need to be raised on this front.

I think the issue in this crash is absence of crane or folklift or whatever such vehicle or equipment in the proximity of the crash site. first marshall car and seemingly qualified/professional marshalls/medical staffs arrived at the scene within 20sec or so, so it's quick enough. Took 2min for first ambulance to arrive is bit too long surely tho. But in such circumstance where crashed car lies upside down, what you can do immediately is quite limited. You have to ask/wait medics/doctors for proper treatment and technicians for how to save the driver from car. Removing driver gently and quickly is tough and contradicting demand esp in such situation, so it shud take some time inevitably.

Reputation of standards of Suzuka marshall by FIA isnt bad actually iirc.
For example in 2009 when F1 returned to Suzuka for the first time in 3 years, many drivers went offtrack and you could see marshalls work was quite good. One of crashes involved Glock at final turn, and he was treated properly by the extrication team.

Yea Daijiro Kato's case was bad, it has been criticised alot, at that time proper care and "wait until doctor arrives" hadnt been understood through completely and properly.
Suzuka's become bit too dangerous and unfit for 2 wheels unfortunatly. Safety of T1-2 area, 130R etc is criticized, everyone knows it long time but at the moment not many things can be done. They're not taking it for granted tho, they're making good efforts in various aspects, both for fans and for safety, like widening safety zone, making access roads and introducing new barriers but fundamentally not much space available at many places. Widening T1-2 runoffs must be surely in the mid-long term plan tho.

[BoschKurve]

Suzuka on 2 wheels seems to be rather terrifying to me. There's too many sections there that seem to be of the sort that can destabilize the balance of a bike quite easily without even taking into account the safety aspect. I'm just surprised the runoff in T1 and T2 hasn't been lengthened a bit by now. For it to be essentially unchanged for the last 30 years is a little weird. Even 130R had the gravel trap changed to tarmac.

[ANF]

The crash from another angle as well.

[BoschKurve]

The crash from another angle as well.

Thanks for posting that.

I can't tell if he made contact at all with the car that was in front of him.

[muramasa]

Suzuka on 2 wheels seems to be rather terrifying to me. There's too many sections there that seem to be of the sort that can destabilize the balance of a bike quite easily without even taking into account the safety aspect. I'm just surprised the runoff in T1 and T2 hasn't been lengthened a bit by now. For it to be essentially unchanged for the last 30 years is a little weird. Even 130R had the gravel trap changed to tarmac.

T1-2 runoffs is expanded to its maximum already. In order to expand more, they need to buy lands and raise up the land there. Land outside of T1 is currently farmland and few meters lower than the circuit, so have to be raised. Outside T1-2 there's permanent stands and also outside the circuit is lower here too. Not impossible to do that, but it will be expensive and big project.
For 2-wheels gravel runoff is safer but they changed T2 runoff to tarmac, same as 130R. Other than those, even during 00s actually they made changes to several places like S, dunlop and chicane for making more space for runoffs. So they are doing all they can. You know they started from this;

[BoschKurve]

T1-2 runoffs is expanded to its maximum already. In order to expand more, they need to buy lands and raise up the land there. Land outside of T1 is currently farmland and few meters lower than the circuit, so have to be raised. Outside T1-2 there's permanent stands and also outside the circuit is lower here too. Not impossible to do that, but it will be expensive and big project.
For 2-wheels gravel runoff is safer but they changed T2 runoff to tarmac, same as 130R. Other than those, even during 00s actually they made changes to several places like S, dunlop and chicane for making more space for runoffs. So they are doing all they can. You know they started from this;

Thanks for that information muramasa. I suspected there was something with not owning the land involved because I found it hard to believe that the runoff would not have been lengthened unless there was good reason for it.

I do like Suzuka quite a bit, and I suppose I do like seeing that outside of of a few minor changes, the circuit is really the same as it always has been for the most part.

[krapmeister]

Thanks for posting that.

I can't tell if he made contact at all with the car that was in front of him.

Looks like maybe the driver didn't see the flag and got caught out by the cars ahead of him slowing, perhaps swerving to avoid them?

[ANF]

Looks like maybe the driver didn't see the flag and got caught out by the cars ahead of him slowing, perhaps swerving to avoid them?

Either that or because of a mechanical failure... or something else.

[jimjimjeroo]

I read somewhere he was at race speed and the car in front slowed dramatically he swerved to avoid...

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

I know it means changing the track, but would it be possible to in effect shorten that section? For example if you look at the 2 strips of grass on the right hand side, the non grassy area between the 2 of them, could they possibly change it so the track turns right there, rather than where it currently does? I know it may mean having to change the pit exit for example, and the track itself, but maybe it's 1 solution, I don't know.

[redreni]

I know it means changing the track, but would it be possible to in effect shorten that section? For example if you look at the 2 strips of grass on the right hand side, the non grassy area between the 2 of them, could they possibly change it so the track turns right there, rather than where it currently does? I know it may mean having to change the pit exit for example, and the track itself, but maybe it's 1 solution, I don't know.

Possibly. When they improved the run-off at Stowe at Silverstone, they did it by tightening the corner rather than by moving the barrier back, which would have meant moving the earth banking.

I don't think Suzuka's safety record for cars is that bad, although I would question the performance of the armco barrier in this particular incident. If there had been a concrete wall there instead of armco, the driver's injuries may well have been worse, of course, but ultimately a proper wall would have protected those standing behind it, which is after all the point of a barrier being there. If this had happened at a Grand Prix there could have been many more people standing in that area, including officials, photographers and general hangers-on, and it is disturbing to see a 20-25 foot length of barrier get destroyed by one car.

What I can't understand is bikes running there. There are far too many places where you can go off at high speed and you're just inevitably going to hit the barriers. The run-off is scarcely sufficient, and where tarmac has replaced gravel it's just disastrous for bikes.

[Mila]

I'm not sure, but it looks as though the marshal was struck by the wall.

[CSquared]

Looks like maybe the driver didn't see the flag and got caught out by the cars ahead of him slowing, perhaps swerving to avoid them?

I read somewhere he was at race speed and the car in front slowed dramatically he swerved to avoid...

My first thought watching the video was that it looked really dangerous that they were all going so slowly right after the line. I'm surprised that experienced racers would do something so stupid.

[Sakae]

The crash from another angle as well.

Worker was really exposed, and if he escaped direct impact of the body cage (shell), then debris from the car and wall mortar - just terrifying.

Edited by Sakae, 22 May 2013 - 20:55.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Was it the end of the race? Is that why the marshall was waving and the other cars were slowing?

[Skett]

Was it the end of the race? Is that why the marshall was waving and the other cars were slowing?

I was wondering the same thing, they're all clapping before the crash. Including the marshall

[muramasa]

yes it was right after the checkered flag.

watching that new vid from different angle, seems no anything strange going on. That crashed car looks bit faster than the other cars but seem no break test by car in front. Maybe just tried to swerve to the right to get out of the line after the flag, but sudden front grip recovery as soon as get out of slipstream, then couldnt counter and control?
anyway still hard to judge what really happened from these vids.

[Sakae]

muramasa, do you know whether crash location was subjected to investigation, and data collected? I would presume it should have been for determination of causes of the incident (driver's error v. equipment malfunction), however it is probably one of those things Suzuka raceway probably wants off the front pages and TV screens (as any other place would do), thus information on it might not be readily available to public. Ferrari could be held liable, if this would be proven as the equipment failure. Any comments about this from general public?

[sennafan]

yes it was right after the checkered flag.

watching that new vid from different angle, seems no anything strange going on. That crashed car looks bit faster than the other cars but seem no break test by car in front. Maybe just tried to swerve to the right to get out of the line after the flag, but sudden front grip recovery as soon as get out of slipstream, then couldnt counter and control?
anyway still hard to judge what really happened from these vids.

maybe the crashed car wasn't aware the race was over. it happend to Franchitti in indycar when he hit matsuura .

[krapmeister]

yes it was right after the checkered flag.

watching that new vid from different angle, seems no anything strange going on. That crashed car looks bit faster than the other cars but seem no break test by car in front. Maybe just tried to swerve to the right to get out of the line after the flag, but sudden front grip recovery as soon as get out of slipstream, then couldnt counter and control?
anyway still hard to judge what really happened from these vids.

The car that crashed looked MASSIVELY quicker than the other cars - looks to me like the driver hadn't realised it was the end of the race and was perhaps looking at his dash/pit wall or something and when he looked ahead again saw he was coming up way too fast behind a slower moving car and swerved to avoid them, losing control of the car.

Obviously I could be wrong, perhaps it was a mechanical failure of sorts - but that is what it looks like to me...

[Eff One 2002]

That's some nasty ****....

[muramasa]

muramasa, do you know whether crash location was subjected to investigation, and data collected? I would presume it should have been for determination of causes of the incident (driver's error v. equipment malfunction), however it is probably one of those things Suzuka raceway probably wants off the front pages and TV screens (as any other place would do), thus information on it might not be readily available to public. Ferrari could be held liable, if this would be proven as the equipment failure. Any comments about this from general public?

I'm not sure, but Suzuka should know what to do. Not really sure where liability is and how much, exemption etc in each event either. Ferrari's official statement regarding this incident says that they will provide care for those involved in the accident and families. Maybe from insurance and deposit they have in case sth like this happens, but no detail is disclosed. Also searched about the incident, yea of course it initially made news and it's talked about on several online forums in japan, but just no any update available at all. It's not sth media is interested in at all, so hard to get follow-up (proably unless the worst have to happen), also the driver and family privacy should be protected.
Suzuka is trustable enough, also i believe all procedures is being done properly, no fishy relationship with police etc. Not sure about what circuits in other countries do, but if Suzuka could make detailed report of each of serious incident open and accessible and published on their homepage, that would be better for sure.

[Sakae]

I'm not sure, but Suzuka should know what to do. Not really sure where liability is and how much, exemption etc in each event either. Ferrari's official statement regarding this incident says that they will provide care for those involved in the accident and families. Maybe from insurance and deposit they have in case sth like this happens, but no detail is disclosed. Also searched about the incident, yea of course it initially made news and it's talked about on several online forums in japan, but just no any update available at all. It's not sth media is interested in at all, so hard to get follow-up (proably unless the worst have to happen), also the driver and family privacy should be protected.
Suzuka is trustable enough, also i believe all procedures is being done properly, no fishy relationship with police etc. Not sure about what circuits in other countries do, but if Suzuka could make detailed report of each of serious incident open and accessible and published on their homepage, that would be better for sure.

Thank you muramasa-san, I wish to clarify, that in no time it was my intention to insinuate any impropriate behavior, but mine was merely personal curiosity how Suzuka managed the issue, which, based on your input, seems to be no different than any world-level track site.

Edited by Sakae, 25 May 2013 - 15:44.

[Dan333SP]

That reminds me of Tetsuya Ota's crash at Fuji in a 355 challenge, also during a period where the cars were supposed to be slowing (safety car). Sadly, the Ota incident involved fire, it's pretty horrific so I won't link to it.

[paulogman]

any link to the conditions of either the driver or the marshal?

[HPT]

I read that the race has already ended and the driver who had the crash didn't realize that it has ended and continued down the straight at full speed. One of the cars in front didn't realize he was coming and closed the gap a little and the crashing driver swerved and lost control of his car.

The marshall was at the correct spot but even then didn't expect a car to come crashing after the race has finished.