24 replies to this topic

[ViMaMo]

Monaco hated by people for lack of overtaking but loved by others for being Monaco, very demanding and mistakes lead to instant retirements. Ask anyone who has driven at Monaco, they know its not a circuit that s sunday drive.

Whereas Hockenheim, a totally uninteresting circuit but with lots of overtaking and its loved for that.

Votes please and your views too.

Edited by ViMaMo, 21 May 2013 - 14:43.

[Sakae]

Voted: other

I view overtaking as one of the functions in ecological relationship between the driver, vehicle system, and environment. Passing-by for sake of making up numbers is just as boring, as no passing at all. Good circuit is complementing man’s work in-house. Unfortunately technical specifications in recent years I think lost sight of this symbiotic necessity, and a lot of misplaced dissonance exists after race which finds its roots not only in claims who has designed the circuit, but in lack of consideration whether individual pieces that team fielded can co-exist with each other.

[Jackmancer]

It's difficult to compare. The Senna-Mansell fight in Monaco in 1992 was thrilling, but a Schumacher win in 2001-2005 was often super boring. Both featured no overtakes.

In general though, I'd say the circuit is more important.
Last year there weren't that many overtakes in the USA, but a super-close and thrilling fight up front with Hamilton and Vettel.

[scheivlak]

Whereas Hockenheim, a totally uninteresting circuit but with lots of overtaking and its loved for that.

Lots of overtaking
Loved

How do you come to either conclusion?

Since the destruction of 'proper Hockenheim' a lot of people have voiced their negative opinion of the track.
And 'lot of overtaking' is no guarantee - remember 2010 when Fernando's "pass" on Felipe was one of the very, very few......

[7MGTEsup]

Monaco in my opinion shouldn't even be on the calender as its just a 2 hour procession. They may as well just have a time trial and award points for that. Yes it's an exciting track to drive and very challenging but unless the other driver gives you 100% co operation then most pass attempts just end in missing wings or accidents. Also it in no where near the challenge it used to be before they pushed all the barriers back ay key locations.

[ViMaMo]

Having seen the reactions to hacked Hockenheim, have seen opinions where they say its good because the circuit produces overtaking. I can't pull out the stats though.

[smitten]

Other.

What I want to see is a race, and a race can take many forms. Maybe the lead swops every 100 metres, or maybe one driver harries another for the whole race but never passes.

[juicy sushi]

Other as well. I like a balance, but a good race on a stunning track with no passing is better than loads of passing on a dull track in a race which lacks drama for me. If you can put passing, drama and circuit together than things achieve perfection. This usually doesn't happen though.

[pizzalover]

Monaco, unless it rains or someone crashes is a borefest as a spectator.

In sure that driving it in in f1 car has got to be the experience of a life time.

It would be better to scrap the race and have an extended time trial instead.

[nada12]

I have sort of a double standard on this issue. IMO there are a few circuits that should have a place on the calendar period, regardless of the overtaking factor. Monaco is one, Spa, Suzuka, Monza for sure. They have enough pedigree and a special layout where I simply enjoy seeing F1 race on them every year, no matter the outcome.

Apart from those, overtaking factors in quite a bit more. Especially on newer tracks that are built with modern Formula 1 cars in mind. If Tillke designs another copycat-track on his computer with two 1 km straights and another quadruple-apex corner it better be possible to overtake on it.

Edited by nada12, 21 May 2013 - 17:37.

[alframsey]

They both matter to me a great deal. I do think Monaco provides shite racing though, wouldn't be arsed if it was dropped.

[BoschKurve]

They both matter to me a great deal. I do think Monaco provides shite racing though, wouldn't be arsed if it was dropped.

Monaco tends to be more about the driver vs. the track than anything else. Unless you have the courage of Gilles Villeneuve, overtaking is too difficult.

[charly0418]

Spa
Suzuka
Austin
Silverstone


That's where real racing takes place

[alframsey]

Monaco tends to be more about the driver vs. the track than anything else. Unless you have the courage of Gilles Villeneuve, overtaking is too difficult.

Yep, and that's why I hate watching it. I'm sure it's a dream to drive but as a race it is boring.

[BoschKurve]

Yep, and that's why I hate watching it. I'm sure it's a dream to drive but as a race it is boring.

What I always liked about Monaco in the past was the unpredictability of the races. One could never be sure as to whether a car would hold up mechanically over the 78 laps. Granted there is much less of that now which has in my opinion hurt the race to a degree since the cars are rather reliable these days. Certainly there have been some snoozefests at Monaco, but there have also been some memorable races there as well. I guess the best way I can sum it up for myself is that I never know quite what to expect from a grand prix in Monaco, and as such I have no expectations going into it.

[Longtimefan]

Hockenheim was my favourite track of the year until they butchered it and made it into the abomination it is now.

[baddog]

If all circuits were like Monaco it would be bad. If none were it would be bad. A big part of the soul of Grand Prix racing is the variety of challenges throughout the season.

I too would like a Hockenheim style speed run back (though the current track is actually a nice mid-speed circuit, and the old one was widely considered a joke when introduced!). but with the engine rules as they are it would be a bit pointless unfortunately. It was never a driver test, it was an engine builder/reliability test and those factors have been skewed too much.

[alfa1]

A big part of the soul of Grand Prix racing is the variety of challenges throughout the season.

It used to be this way, but with the butchering of Hockenheim, the tracks really end up in two categories nowdays :
1. Medium downforce circuits.
2. Monaco.

And so the aero configuration is mostly the same for all circuits now, except this weekend.

The teams will bring special aero updates for the race this weekend, and five days from now throw them in the bin, never to be used again.

[baddog]

Canada and Malaysia are pretty unique, but yes more variety would be good.

[TheThirdTenor1]

It used to be this way, but with the butchering of Hockenheim, the tracks really end up in two categories nowdays :
1. Medium downforce circuits.
2. Monaco.

And so the aero configuration is mostly the same for all circuits now, except this weekend.

The teams will bring special aero updates for the race this weekend, and five days from now throw them in the bin, never to be used again.

I would also add

3. Monza

Alot of teams bring a special Monza package.

[TheThirdTenor1]

I too would like a Hockenheim style speed run back (though the current track is actually a nice mid-speed circuit, and the old one was widely considered a joke when introduced!). but with the engine rules as they are it would be a bit pointless unfortunately. It was never a driver test, it was an engine builder/reliability test and those factors have been skewed too much.

I actually think it did test the drivers - driving the stadium section in low downforce spec was a good challenge for them.

[joshb]

Whilst the racing at Monaco may not be mega for overtaking, there is always that possibility of a driver binning it which you don't get on the modern tracks. I can support my driver and unless he's got another car right near him, I'm not worried about him crashing out, but at Monaco, I'm always on edge hoping it gets round each lap!

Also, if you have a track that yields overtaking too easily, that can also be boring and there, you have no chance of an error being punished, as you get at Monaco

So it's the track for me and Monaco is pretty much a unique challenge nowadays. Even Singapore has reasonable runoff in places and is wider and not all permanent streets.

As earlier posts say, the tracks now are limited to Monaco/Singapore, Monza/Canada, Silverstone/Suzuka then pretty much everything else is the same

Edited by joshb, 22 May 2013 - 08:52.

[PretentiousBread]

Hockenheim was my favourite track of the year until they butchered it and made it into the abomination it is now.

The final sector leading into the first sector is still an absolute peach of a combination though, such a good rhythm. The mid sector is very uninteresting I agree.

[Red17]

I would also add

3. Monza

Alot of teams bring a special Monza package.

That's because Monza is the only high speed track left on the shedule.

[pingu666]

The final sector leading into the first sector is still an absolute peach of a combination though, such a good rhythm. The mid sector is very uninteresting I agree.

the final sector is unchanged?

it seems to me theres monza/spa, then everything else, bar monaco/singapour where they might run a dragier rear wing

theres actually greater differences in the nascar ovals :\

when was the last "lets go fast" low downforce track made? probably fontana oval?