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Which of the current drivers will break Senna's monaco record?


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#1 kenkip

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:52

Monaco gp weekend is upon us and it got me thinking,who will break/match Senna's amazing record of 6 wins in Monaco?
I think we are watching one of the most talented grids in the history of formula one and it would be brilliant to witness someone atleast match Senna.Big mountain to climb though.
Vettel(1 win)-I may be biased as a Seb fan but if there is anyone that has everything to do it its him.Talented,fast,great car,great team and even though he doesnt admit it he loves going for these little records.Plus most importantly he is ridiculously young so plenty of time to go for it.Problem is,he is a bit rubbish around Monaco so that may work against him.

Webber(2 wins)-I feel bad for Webbo,he realy excels in Monaco but sadly he got a race winning car at the end of his career plus a fast teammate.I wish he could have gotten a competitive car earlier,he would have been closer to Senna. He is that good in monaco but he is too old now and may lack the motivation to go for it.

Hamilton(1 win)- Memorable win in 2008 plus he is brilliant around street tracks.He is in a transitional stage of his career but if Merc provide him with a rocket next year(I think they will) then he may also just be able to do it.Dont forget he worships Senna so he would love to match him.

Alonso(2 wins)-just like Webbo,he is preety good in Monaco but he is getting old so time might not be on his side.Then again,this Alonso,you cannot write him off can you?Ferrari have a chance this year and i think they will be competitive in 2014 so why not?

So what you guys think?Anyone else who can make the cut?(The Hulkenburgs,Riccardos)

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#2 Cavani

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:53

alonso and vettel obviously

#3 F1ultimate

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:59

I don't think anyone will break it. Monaco is not the type of circuit where is easy to dominate year-to-year.

#4 Briz

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:07

I doubt any of them will, simply because none of them is really head and shoulders above the rest at Monaco. Also a lot of luck needed to get 6 wins - half of Senna's wins were inherited from people who had mechanical failures in front of him, the rest were won in dominant cars.

Edited by Briz, 22 May 2013 - 09:20.


#5 kenkip

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:10

I doubt any of them will, simply because none of them is really shoulders above the rest at Monaco. Also a lot of luck needed to get 6 wins - half of Senna's wins were inherited from people who had mechanical failures in front of him, the rest were won in dominant cars.

Intresting,I never knew that.Which years were this?

#6 Jimisgod

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:20

Not Vettel, I think this is one of his weakest tracks. He has the time, but not the affinity with Monaco.

Lewis should have won more than once by now, if he could only do it once in 6 years, I can't see him doing it 5 times in the next 8.

Alonso, maybe. I think he is limited by time, too. 4 more wins in what seems like another 5 years or so of career? Possible he may go longer.

Webber has the talent here, but his time is the most limited.

- - -

So the new guys:

Rosberg hasn't done much aside from 2012.

Sutil kind of had one great race in 2008.

Hell, only Kobayashi really impressed me here, and he's gone for now. :cry:

Can't see anyone matching it TBH, Monaco seems to often throw up fairly strange results and different winners.

Edited by Jimisgod, 22 May 2013 - 09:25.


#7 EthanM

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:23

Intresting,I never knew that.Which years were this?

87 Mansell retired from the lead, I think his turbo failed, 92 Mansell again had the infamous phantom puncture 8 laps before the end (didn't retire though) and in 93 Prost had a stop/go penalty then he stalled the car and Schumacher retired from the lead he had inherited from Prost

Hell, only Kobayashi really impressed me here, and he's gone for now. :cry:


Kubica was also very impressive around Monaco but again, he's not racing either

Edited by EthanM, 22 May 2013 - 09:27.


#8 Ickx

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:26

Intresting,I never knew that.Which years were this?


According to forix and a little memory searching

1987 - Mansell was leading Senna with about 10 secounds when his tubo broke on lap 29
1989 - Dominating
1990 - Dominating
1991 - Dominating
1992 - Mansell much faster, a loose wheel nut made him do an extra pit stop and then couldn't overtake
1993 - Schumacher leading until hydraulics faliure on lap 32

#9 lustigson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:28

Likely none at all.

I mean, Vettel and Hamilton have both won Monaco once, and would have to win it 7 6 times over the next, say, 10 years of their careers. Same goes for Alonso who has won the Monte Carlo GP twice, so would have to take another 5 wins, probably during his current Ferrari contract, which runs out come 2017.

This asks a level of dominance for all three that's, in my mind at least, highly unlikely. Not impossible, just not very likely.

Edited by lustigson, 22 May 2013 - 09:36.


#10 rasul

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:28

None of them. None of the current top drivers have a particular affinity for Monaco GP. They are all decent, but that's it.

#11 EthanM

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:30

and would have to win it 7 times over the next, say, 10 years of their careers


Something is very wrong with this math :)

Senna won Monaco 6 times. For Hamilton or Vettel to break his record they would need to win another 6 times (since they have already won once each)

#12 lustigson

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:36

Something is very wrong with this math :)

Senna won Monaco 6 times. For Hamilton or Vettel to break his record they would need to win another 6 times (since they have already won once each)


Sorry, I probably had in mind the total amount of race wins needed to take the record. I'll fix it.

#13 rasul

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:43

Actually, do any of the current drivers hold the record for most wins in any GPs? I'm too lazy to check myself.

#14 Zava

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:47

Actually, do any of the current drivers hold the record for most wins in any GPs? I'm too lazy to check myself.

well, out of the top of my head, Vettel sure does for singapore, abu dhabi, korea and india :p as well as Lewis for austin. probably Vettel-Alonso tied lead on sepang (with MS?), if Schumacher didn't win that (more than) 3 times.

#15 Jimisgod

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:52

Actually, do any of the current drivers hold the record for most wins in any GPs? I'm too lazy to check myself.


Well, for every track added since 2004...

And Malaysia. Vettel and Alonso are tied at 3 each.

#16 turssi

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:59

well, out of the top of my head, Vettel sure does for singapore, abu dhabi, korea and india :p as well as Lewis for austin. probably Vettel-Alonso tied lead on sepang (with MS?), if Schumacher didn't win that (more than) 3 times.


Well surely we should limit ourselves to consider only more traditional tracks, like some European locations as well as Australiian, Japanese and Brazilian spots :-)

#17 rasul

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:01

well, out of the top of my head, Vettel sure does for singapore, abu dhabi, korea and india :p as well as Lewis for austin. probably Vettel-Alonso tied lead on sepang (with MS?), if Schumacher didn't win that (more than) 3 times.

Well, for every track added since 2004...

And Malaysia. Vettel and Alonso are tied at 3 each.

Thanks. I thought so.

I think Vettel has more chance to beat Schumacher's record of 6 Japanese GP wins than beating Senna's Monaco record. He's already got 3, so it can be accomplished.

Edited by rasul, 22 May 2013 - 10:46.


#18 turssi

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:05

Well, for every track added since 2004...

And Malaysia. Vettel and Alonso are tied at 3 each.


Maybe a minimum of 3 wins by same driver at a location could produce a relevant list of records to break?

#19 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:23

well, out of the top of my head, Vettel sure does for singapore, abu dhabi, korea and india :p as well as Lewis for austin. probably Vettel-Alonso tied lead on sepang (with MS?), if Schumacher didn't win that (more than) 3 times.


Vettel is tied with Alonso for Singapore (both have 2 wins each).


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#20 PayasYouRace

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:26

I don't think any of the current drivers will. It could happen, but look at how rare it is to become a Monaco Master. You look at the list of past winners and there are only 6 with more than 2 wins there. Senna 6, G Hill and Schumi on 5, Prost on 4 and Moss and Stewart have 3 apiece. So for any of the current lot to reach 7 will be a big ask, especially if we're talking about the guys who have already been in F1 for a decade or more and won't have that long left to do it.

Though in fairness, most Grands Prix have similar statistics. In fact it's the same for Belgium, France, Germany and Britain. 6 drivers with more than 2 wins each.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 22 May 2013 - 10:27.


#21 Zava

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:26

Vettel is tied with Alonso for Singapore (both have 2 wins each).

sorry, but no.


p.s.: in my previous post, I forgot to add valencia to Vettel's list :p but yeah, I'll stop with the new tracks already

#22 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:28

sorry, but no.


Well, yes. Alonso won in 2008 and 2010, while Vettel won in 2011 and 2012.


#23 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:28

Don't think anyone will ever break it to be honest. Not even convinced anyone will ever match it.

Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 22 May 2013 - 10:28.


#24 Cesc

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:31

According to forix and a little memory searching

1987 - Mansell was leading Senna with about 10 secounds when his tubo broke on lap 29
1989 - Dominating
1990 - Dominating
1991 - Dominating
1992 - Mansell much faster, a loose wheel nut made him do an extra pit stop and then couldn't overtake
1993 - Schumacher leading until hydraulics faliure on lap 32


In 93 he did a very good race, Prost also had problems with a much superior car.

In 1988 he was dominating CLEARLY but crashed, he alone, with lots of seconds of advantage (+30 I think). Last corners of 1992 are exciting to watch.

#25 rasul

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:41

I don't think any of the current drivers will. It could happen, but look at how rare it is to become a Monaco Master. You look at the list of past winners and there are only 6 with more than 2 wins there. Senna 6, G Hill and Schumi on 5, Prost on 4 and Moss and Stewart have 3 apiece. So for any of the current lot to reach 7 will be a big ask, especially if we're talking about the guys who have already been in F1 for a decade or more and won't have that long left to do it.

Though in fairness, most Grands Prix have similar statistics. In fact it's the same for Belgium, France, Germany and Britain. 6 drivers with more than 2 wins each.


Yes, that's correct. Setting records is not easy at all. Winning the same GP even twice is already a big accomplishment, especially if the grid is very competitive. For example, Japanese GP has only 2 drivers with more than 2 wins: Schumi and Vettel. Even Senna won there "only" twice.

#26 ChiltonsCats

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:57

Lewis Hamilton.

#27 pRy

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:01

It will never be topped. Schumacher couldn't do it and he was probably the best chance of it being broken.

Edited by pRy, 22 May 2013 - 11:02.


#28 sopa

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:07

Out of current drivers, what is the maximum amount of wins they have got on a single circuit. Is it 3? Like Vettel at Suzuka. Or Button in Australia.

I know Schumacher got 5-8 wins on quite a lot of circuits. So perhaps we can discuss, which drivers and on which circuits can get to at least 5 wins by the end of their careers.

#29 GlenP

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:09

I don't think it possible to be that much better than the rest of the field these days. First of all Senna, and then Schumacher, redefined the level of excellence at the top of F1 - and for many years the field has been full of drivers with levels of fitness, professionalism and talent developed from an early age which would be utterly exceptional 20 or 30 years ago.

#30 Zoetrope

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:13

Lewis Hamilton.


He needs 5 wins. I think he will have a bigger chance to equal Schumacher's record in Canada, where he needs just (sic!) 4 more, but looks dominant there. I can't see him shining round Monaco more than others. But then again, there was a thread on these forums about driver's tracks and many were claiming there is no such thing, top driver will perform everywhere. I guess there is some truth to it.

#31 molpid

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:24

He needs 5 wins. I think he will have a bigger chance to equal Schumacher's record in Canada, where he needs just (sic!) 4 more, but looks dominant there. I can't see him shining round Monaco more than others. But then again, there was a thread on these forums about driver's tracks and many were claiming there is no such thing, top driver will perform everywhere. I guess there is some truth to it.


or rather Hungary where Schumacher is leading the all time list with 4 wins, followed by Hamilton (3 wins)

#32 DKMoto

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:36

No. Cars are reliable now, nobody will be gifted free Monaco wins like Senna was.

#33 Baddoer

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:38

not gonna happen

#34 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:41

Doubt it's possible for anyone. Even Vettel with all the years ahead of him would need another 6 wins, and asides from 2011 has never looked particularly special at the track. That said, he's the most likely to break the record.

#35 Bean

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:44

It will be very difficult for anyone to do it nowadays, as the regulations have made the field more competetive at the top. Sebastian and Lewis would have an advantage though, due to their age.

(BTW, Massa has 3 wins at Turkey as well, which is the record-holder there)

#36 Zava

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:44

Well, yes. Alonso won in 2008 and 2010, while Vettel won in 2011 and 2012.

it seems you don't really (want to) get my point, whatever, I'm not gonna start arguing with you.

#37 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:57

it seems you don't really (want to) get my point, whatever, I'm not gonna start arguing with you.


Go look at the official stats. It's recorded as a win. If you disagree with that - fine, but it's still recorded as a win. So as of now, Vettel and Alonso hold the joint record for wins in Singapore with 2 each. FACT.

#38 KTF1

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:12

I can't see anyone equalling or beating Senna's record. There isn't one driver who is dominant there, and who could possibly challenge it.

Edited by KTF1, 22 May 2013 - 12:13.


#39 rasul

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:15

Top 4's Monaco record:
Alonso: 2001-Ret, 2003-5, 2004-Ret, 2005-4, 2006-1, 2007-1, 2008-10, 2009-7, 2010-6, 2011-2, 2012-3
Kimi: 2001- 10, 2002 - Ret, 2003-2, 2004-Ret, 2005-1, 2006 - Ret, 2007- 8, 2008- 9, 2009-3, 2012 -9

These two obviously have far less experience in Monaco:
Hamilton: 2007-2, 2008 - 1, 2009- 12, 2010 - 5, 2011 - 6, 2012 - 5
Vettel: 2008- 5, 2009- Ret, 2010 - 2, 2011-1, 2012 - 4

No driver's record is exceptional.

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#40 Nina

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:36

Out of current drivers, what is the maximum amount of wins they have got on a single circuit. Is it 3? Like Vettel at Suzuka. Or Button in Australia.

I know Schumacher got 5-8 wins on quite a lot of circuits. So perhaps we can discuss, which drivers and on which circuits can get to at least 5 wins by the end of their careers.


Kimi has 4 at Spa.

#41 E.B.

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 13:07

Don't think anyone will ever break it to be honest. Not even convinced anyone will ever match it.


I tend to agree, although that was also said about Hill's 5 wins there.


#42 30ft penguin

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 13:13

Like many already said, it won't happen. It will take the drivers with the best chances to do it (top teams) 5-6 wins to reach the 7 Monaco wins necessary to break the record, so 5 to 6 years MINIMUM. But a.) that particular driver won't win every year, because we do not have the complete dominance of one team/driver as in the Senna/Schumacher years, so one driver most likely won't win every year from now on - so it would take more like 10 years, if you only win every 2nd time. And b.) most of the drivers with good chances are already in F1 for several years, so it is more likely that they will finish their career before then.

The way to set records like that was to be the top driver in a dominant team for several years in a row (to minimize chances of some other driver "endangering" the win), and current F1 rules have made sure that this cannot happen anymore.



#43 teejay

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 14:32

I hope no one does to be honest - its a legacy he deserves to keep.

#44 kenkip

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 14:32

Not much faith in the current grid huh?
To be honest I had not considered some points raised by forumers here about what it takes to get to 6,(luck,unreliability of others) but I will be optimistic,atleast Lewis or Seb should match 6 wins.

#45 Atreiu

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 14:59

If Schumacher couldn't do it...

#46 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 15:06

Vettel should be the best bet, but after having the best car Monaco for the last 3 years, he only has 1 win to show for it, is it a long shot for him to get 6 more wins, but not impossible.

#47 BenettonB192

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 15:07

None of the current grid.

#48 SpartanChas

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 15:09

Nah I don't think any current drivers will beat [Monaco master] Graham Hill's five wins.

They mostly have a similar ability around there and the highest are Alonso and Webber on two apiece. Webber won't be around to win another four and even if Alonso is long enough, he won't win four back to back.

Edited by SpartanChas, 22 May 2013 - 15:11.


#49 911

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 15:10

In 93 he did a very good race, Prost also had problems with a much superior car.

In 1988 he was dominating CLEARLY but crashed, he alone, with lots of seconds of advantage (+30 I think). Last corners of 1992 are exciting to watch.


Senna was up by over 50 seconds in the '88 Monaco race before he crashed with 11 laps left.

I agree with you about the '92 race. Although Mansell was dominating, Senna's drive in those last 4-5 laps were amazing.

#50 exmayol

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 15:17

If Schumacher couldn't do it...


This.