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Mercedes and Pirelli in 'secret' tyre test


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:24

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1 32s
Sizeable technical row developing at Monaco. Some very unhappy teams. More soon
9:23 AM - 26 May 13

SUMMARY
LATE APRIL
- Ferrari conduct a three day test with the F150 at Barcelona with Pedro de la Rosa, as noted on May 4th here

EARLY MAY
- Pirelli ask FIA if it was possible for a team (Mercedes) to test using a current car (source)
- FIA attaches conditions to its approval towards Pirelli (source)

MAY 15TH TO 17TH, 2013
- Pirelli and Mercedes conduct test - 1,000km
- No communication takes place between FIA and Pirelli from early May onwards

MAY 26TH, 2013
- Details of the aforementioned emerge, Red Bull and Ferrari protest

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#2 D.M.N.

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:25

Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1 23s
Mercedes at the centre of a growing storm here in Monaco on race morning over alleged rules breach. Full story soon
9:24 AM - 26 May 13

Oh dear! :eek:

#3 bogi

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:25

Roscoe?

#4 garoidb

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:26

Roscoe?


:rotfl:


#5 D.M.N.

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:28

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1 50s
Mercedes did 3-day tyre test between the Spanish and Monaco Grands Prix. Testing is banned. Seems there is a document that allows tyre tests
9:26 AM - 26 May 13 ·

#6 darkkis

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:30

Ouch. Well, rules are rules, no testing. They should be punished accordingly.

Edited by darkkis, 26 May 2013 - 08:30.


#7 pRy

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:31

If Ross Brawn is as good with the rule book as he normally is they'll be fine.

#8 dank

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:31

On Autosport now: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/107671

#9 garoidb

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:33

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1 50s
Mercedes did 3-day tyre test between the Spanish and Monaco Grands Prix. Testing is banned. Seems there is a document that allows tyre tests
9:26 AM - 26 May 13 ·


Very strange - hugely unfair if Mercedes are allowed three days testing that others do not get. What does "a document" mean?

#10 study

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:33

Ouch. Well, rules are rules, no testing. They should be punished accordingly.



Not sure.



Although in-season testing is banned, it is understood that Mercedes was requested by Pirelli to help work through the issues that the Italian tyre manufacturer has experienced in the last few races.

According to sources at Mercedes, the test was allowed because Pirelli can call upon one outfit for a private test to help it with products if circumstances dictate.

#11 F.M.

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:33

Ouch. Well, rules are rules, no testing. They should be punished accordingly.

Accordingly is thrown out from the CC standings imo and something like a 5-race ban for the complete team.

#12 P123

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:34

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1 50s
Mercedes did 3-day tyre test between the Spanish and Monaco Grands Prix. Testing is banned. Seems there is a document that allows tyre tests
9:26 AM - 26 May 13 ·


It is a bit sneaky that Pirelli can invite a team to test- who else have they done this with? Who did the driving? And how can 3 days of testing in Barcelona be 'secret'?

#13 Spa

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:35

WOW!!!!

#14 fatd

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:36

Although in-season testing is banned, it is understood that Mercedes was requested by Pirelli to help work through the issues that the Italian tyre manufacturer has experienced in the last few races.

According to sources at Mercedes, the test was allowed because Pirelli can call upon one outfit for a private test to help it with products if circumstances dictate.


Very strange if true, especially if the other teams weren't informed beforehand (which seems to be the case)

#15 darkkis

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:36

Not sure.



Although in-season testing is banned, it is understood that Mercedes was requested by Pirelli to help work through the issues that the Italian tyre manufacturer has experienced in the last few races.

According to sources at Mercedes, the test was allowed because Pirelli can call upon one outfit for a private test to help it with products if circumstances dictate.

Sounds ridiculous, why would Pirelli be able to give test days to a team when in-season testing is banned?? Surely there could have been a better way to handle the "tyre issues" (not talking about Mercedes' issues...).

It's not right to do this kind of tests in secrecy anyways...

Edited by darkkis, 26 May 2013 - 08:38.


#16 peroa

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:36

It is a bit sneaky that Pirelli can invite a team to test- who else have they done this with? Who did the driving? And how can 3 days of testing in Barcelona be 'secret'?

That's a good question.


#17 Buttoneer

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:37

There's no point calling for a ban if what they did was within the allowable procedures.

#18 P123

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:37

Sounds ridiculous, why would Pirelli be able to give test days to a team when in-season testing is banned?? Surely there could have been a better way to handle the "tyre issues" (not talking about Mercedes' issues...).


It should have been open to all teams, or at very least they should all have been informed.

#19 P123

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:38

There's no point calling for a ban if what they did was within the allowable procedures.


Yep. Primarily the anger should be directed at Pirelli, and the general lack of openness regarding the test taking place.

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#20 scheivlak

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:39

Ouch. Well, rules are rules, no testing. They should be punished accordingly.

"They" are Pirelli in this case  ;)

#21 weareracing

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:39

Presumably FIA technical delegates were in attendance to make sure that NO new parts were on the cars
Otherwise it's not just a tyre test is it ?
Invite the remaining teams to a similar test before the mid-season break, but NOT Mercedes.
As for Ross Brawn and the rule book.....
Benetton, fuel rigs, filters, 1994, ............it's called cheating.

#22 rasul

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:39

Even if it's within the rules, it's very unfair to other teams.

#23 race addicted

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:39

If Pirelli can "call upon one outfit for a private test", then there's no problem. This is what they did and that team was Mercedes.
End of discussion.

#24 FizzyJerk

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:40

Not sure.



Although in-season testing is banned, it is understood that Mercedes was requested by Pirelli to help work through the issues that the Italian tyre manufacturer has experienced in the last few races.

According to sources at Mercedes, the test was allowed because Pirelli can call upon one outfit for a private test to help it with products if circumstances dictate.



Wow Pirelli, just wow.

#25 oligc94

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:40

Well, it doesn't look like it did them much good anyway! :lol:

#26 muramasa

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:40


Document-gate?

#27 SpaMaster

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:40

What non-sense! Pirelli can call upon a team to do testing? Absolute sham. I mean, who comes up with disasters like this?

#28 darkkis

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:41

It should have been open to all teams, or at very least they should all have been informed.

I totally agree. This is just weird way to handle things. Tyre manufacturer shouldn't be able to give this kind of permissions, not at least without agreeing / informing (with) the other teams. :well: What did they _exactly_ "test" anyway? And because of what "tyre issue"? Which car did they drove? This years car? :confused:

Mercedes' tyre issues are theirs to handle, not Pirelli's imo.

Edited by darkkis, 26 May 2013 - 08:42.


#29 garoidb

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:41

It is a bit sneaky that Pirelli can invite a team to test- who else have they done this with? Who did the driving? And how can 3 days of testing in Barcelona be 'secret'?


This is dodgy in the extreme, but no doubt they will get away with it. The question is - why Mercedes? This suggests strong political assistance for Mercedes (or Brawn/Brackley perhaps, shades of technical rules interpretations in 2009), which I have suspected for some time.

#30 JForce

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:41

Bernie is desperate for Merc to win, so they'll commit long-term - it's their presence that's attracting others like Honda, and he wants BMW back as the more premium manufacturers, the more the float will be worth.

Otherwise I can't see why Pirelli would do this off their own back - a single team struggling when most others aren't clearly points to a car issue - so why would Pirelli be desperate to help that team solve it?

#31 Buttoneer

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:41

We don't even know whether this was with a current model car, who drove, and how (or whether) the resulting data was shared.

#32 kosmos

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:41

If Pirelli can "call upon one outfit for a private test", then there's no problem. This is what they did and that team was Mercedes.
End of discussion.



Rules or no rules this is not right.

#33 P123

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:42

Presumably FIA technical delegates were in attendance to make sure that NO new parts were on the cars
Otherwise it's not just a tyre test is it ?
Invite the remaining teams to a similar test before the mid-season break, but NOT Mercedes.
As for Ross Brawn and the rule book.....
Benetton, fuel rigs, filters, 1994, ............it's called cheating.


How can you blame Brawn? They wouldn't have been able to do this without Pirelli. The main issue is the secrecy. Have Pirelli done this before, and if they have which team(s) have benefitted?

#34 Xeriks

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:42

Surely Pirelli are at fault for requesting the help of a team without letting the FIA know?

#35 Ravenak

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:42

Presumably FIA technical delegates were in attendance to make sure that NO new parts were on the cars
Otherwise it's not just a tyre test is it ?
Invite the remaining teams to a similar test before the mid-season break, but NOT Mercedes.
As for Ross Brawn and the rule book.....
Benetton, fuel rigs, filters, 1994, ............it's called cheating.


You really think they won't gather any valuable data on a 1000km test run? Don't be naive.

#36 toofast

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:42

No wonder Mercedes didn't criticise Pirelli as much as Red Bull.

#37 revlec

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:43

Were not Pirelli tyres developped using an "old" Lotus car?

#38 fatd

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:44

If Pirelli can "call upon one outfit for a private test", then there's no problem. This is what they did and that team was Mercedes.
End of discussion.


But it is equally understandable that other teams are unhappy about this. What I'm curious about is the transparency of this test. I think other teams are completely uninformed about this, otherwise we would hear about this before the test and not now.

#39 DarthWillie

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:44

pirelli asking a team to test isn't the problem, why was it secret, now that is weird

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#40 Ellios

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:44

Well I'm outraged at the news! I've splattered my porridge over my desk as I choked when reading the news this morning! The private test should have been for McLaren, god knows they need the help the most!



#41 Buttoneer

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:44

Benetton, fuel rigs, filters, 1994, ............it's called cheating.

Way to hijack a thread.

#42 P123

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:45

I think the topic title needs tweaked- not so much a 'technical row' as the initial journo tweets presented it as, more of a 'testing row'.

#43 Timstr11

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:45

If it was under the watchful eyes of the FIA I'm confident it was fully within rules (fair or not).

#44 ExFlagMan

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:45

Yes - we need a six month ban for Pirelli starting at 12.00 today for attempting to use the rules to allow them to do what a large no of posters on this forum have been baying for - ie try and investigate the alledged tyre problems on a current car.

#45 JForce

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:45

Old Toyota I believe

#46 rasul

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:46

If it was under the watchful eyes of the FIA I'm confident it was fully within rules (fair or not).


You have more faith in the FIA than me, then.

#47 SpaMaster

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:46

No wonder Mercedes didn't criticise Pirelli as much as Red Bull.

Exactly my thought. This has all the signs of underhand-deals.

Were not Pirelli tyres developped using an "old" Lotus car?

Yeah, but that was open to all teams. Every other team denied to give their cars and Lotus did. Sorry totally irrelevant.

Edited by SpaMaster, 26 May 2013 - 08:47.


#48 F.M.

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:47

In-season testing in F1 is forbidden and Red Bull and Ferrari are considering a protest against Mercedes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22672228

#49 bogi

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:47

What if they ban Pirelli for five races? :eek:

#50 artista

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:47

If Pirelli can "call upon one outfit for a private test", then there's no problem. This is what they did and that team was Mercedes.
End of discussion.

Nope, don't think it's end of discussion.
If it's allowed then, yes we agree in that, there is no reason to call for sanctions. But there are very good reasons to call -very loud- for the unfairness of a rule book that allows a team to get an advantage over the rest in the middle of a championship.