54 replies to this topic

[The Chasm]

Connie Jordan was born in 1909, and became a music and dance teacher in Brisbane Australia in the late 1920's.

She then began a career as an Aircraft Engineer, and became a test pilot for Qantas by the end of the 1930's.

In 1944 she purchased a MG TA for her personal transport, and in 1948 entered her first Motor Sport event.

A book is currently being written on the life of Connie (not by me !), and assistance is sought to help locate & date these photos.



Perhaps 1944 - collecting the "new" transport



Perhaps 1948 - her first motor sport event at Strathpine



And "enthusiast" racing at Leyburn in 1949 ?. This was not in the AGP, but a support race.
The event programme said:-

No. 37. - CONNIE JORDAN, the only lady driver in to-day's race, is not competing in the Grand Prix, but in the Leyburn Handicap with her 1937 M.G.T.C. Con. is a qualified aircraft engineer with Qantas, has a "B" commercial flying licence, and competes regularly in Q.M.S.C. racing events.

We know now it was not a MG TC, but a TA. This car still exists in North Queensland.

Edited by The Chasm, 27 May 2013 - 02:27.

[cooper997]

Relevant to this is the Leyburn AGP meeting date of September 18, 1949.

The Leyburn Handicap that Connie entered, was Event 6 (the final event for the meeting). Involving 8 laps and the published handicap for her MG was 5.45 minutes.

Somewhere on TNF I read you state Connie's married name, Tony. It would be worthy of putting it here as well.

I can scan & provide the entry list, if you let me know your email.

Stephen

[The Chasm]

Good point Stephen.

"Connie" Constance Frances Caroline Jordan married Paavo Ilmari Karhula in 1953. Paavo was a land surveyor who established a professional practice on the Gold Coast just before the boom of the 50's, 60's & 70's. They lived at Southport, where Connie grew up as a child.

Connie sold her TA to Rod Hiley of Abingdon Motors in 1967. She acquired an MGB as part of the transaction. Rod drove the TA to Sydney and back without "missing a beat". Connie certainly knew how to tune and care for machinery - airborne or low flying !.

Connie was employed by Qantas as a licenced aircraft ground engineer between 1936 and 1953.

Paavo believed his wife was born in 1917, and all her racing licences and aviation certificates also quoted 1917 as her birth year - she was in fact born in 1908.

Paavo was born in 1928, and passed away in 2012.



clipping from The Telegraph - 20th September 1947

Edited by The Chasm, 27 May 2013 - 10:13.

[cooper997]

I should have looked a bit harder at the Leyburn AGP race programme. Upon looking at the relevant AMS race report, it's noted that Connie was in Event 2 Scratch Race of the meeting. The Les Vowles report mentioning mechanical troubles forced her out on lap 6. But there is no mention in the Leyburn Handicap report of whether she started Event 6. Depends how serious those mechanical troubles were in the earlier event. Worth noting is that the Leyburn Handicap was shortened to just 3 of its intended 8 laps. Crowd control earlier had delayed events and daylight was an issue by the time Event 6 took place.

The great photo of Connie in the TA, has me in two minds. The scene makes me think 'too prosperous' for wartime. But on the other side, she still looks quite young in the shot, if in fact she was 36 at the time of purchase. I only say this because often people look older than what they were in this period. I assume it is a birth certificate that has confirmed her actual birthday.

There's bound to be some Matchless enthusiast out there that could date the bike.

I assume that the MG was supplied by Howard's Ltd, the Qld MG distributor originally. Not that they necessarily sold it too Connie in 1944 though.

Stephen

[Tim Murray]

There's bound to be some Matchless enthusiast out there that could date the bike.
Stephen

I sent the photo to my friend John Allen, the former official historian of the AJS & Matchless Owners Club. Here are his thoughts:

The bike was made between 1945 and 1948 and looks like a 350cc G3L. It might be the 500cc model, the G80, but the barrel does not look large enough. The G3L was the same as the war time Matchless made after 1941 for the military. It is unlikely to have been converted from the military model. If so someone has spent an enormous amount of money chroming wheels, exhaust pipe etc.

He's very interested in knowing where the photo was taken, and if a higher-resolution copy might be available.

[Ray Bell]

I'd reckon that showing those photos to Barrie Watt would get some reasonably accurate identification...

I wonder what she's doing in the Leyburn pic, that would be near the start finish line which was in the middle of a straight over a mile long.

[The Chasm]

Connie's "Green" TA was finished at Abingdon on the 28th September 1937, and shipped to Australia on the "Narkunda" arriving in Sydney on the 25th November 1937.

The first owner was a Mr Fokes from Bundaberg - could be Len Fowkes of K3 fame ? (still checking on this).

Connie purchased the car in 1944 and retained it till 1967, when she sold it to Rod Hiley. The present owner bought the car from Rod in 1979.

A good friend of mine knows Barry - I'll see what we can find out there, Thanks Ray.

With 30,000 people at Leyburn that day, the crowds would have been almost everywhere, not just the start/finish line.

Here is another photo from the album without the Matchless in the foreground.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by The Chasm
.....A good friend of mine knows Barry - I'll see what we can find out there, Thanks Ray.....

I'll see if I can e-mail them to Barrie today and ask him about them...

.....With 30,000 people at Leyburn that day, the crowds would have been almost everywhere, not just the start/finish line.....

All photos I've seen only show that concentration of people along the start-finish straight.

If you look at the photo posted last week of the start of the race (I think you posted it) you'll see what I mean. This is not at the start-finish line as the tall posts aren't visible, but somewhere within a quarter-mile or so, I'd say. Perhaps she's just doing a turn to join the other cars on the grid?

For a certainty she's not driving in a race right here, she hasn't had a spin and she's not in a corner on the circuit.

It would have been an awfully fast circuit for a TA. Only one slight braking area and the rest simply flat out. Maybe a 'confidence lift' at the end of the downhill back straight. Lionel Ayers, when I suggested how fast the circuit would be in a decent car, said he's sure he could have lapped it at 190mph in his Rennmax.

[The Chasm]

I had assumed the photo was taken at Porter Corner.

If you could ask Barry just where on the circuit spectators were permitted.

I will ask someone who was there on the day too.

Thanks for your help.

[Wirra]

Queensland's Births, Deaths and Marriage index has an entry for:

Constance Frances Caroline Jordan, born 14th, August, 1908 to William Henry and Edith Anna Winifred Fanning.

Siblings:
Edith Marie Inez Jordan - 1899
Violet Florence Fanning Jordan - 1901

Edited by Wirra, 29 May 2013 - 00:10.

[The Chasm]

Yes, Wirra you are correct. We believe the family lived at Southport prior to 1933, before moving to Bowen Hills in Brisbane.

She featured in a number of Brisbane Courier reports - particularly the Social pages, then as a Music Teacher.

She gained her pilot 'A' Licence in 1936. She joined Qantas at Archerfield in early 1942, then stationed in Cloncurry for two years.

She returned to Archerfield in 1944, and was responsible for testing engines after overhaul (including flight testing).

Here is a copy of her racing licence:-



And another photo from her album - but where & when ?



Is it Mt Panorama ?

[Ray Bell]

There's a very good chance it is...

That's Swedberg's midget, which ran at Bathurst in 1940.

[The Chasm]

Could these also be Bathurst in 1940 ?.





I see the photo of the Swedburg Midget in the John Snow book

Edited by The Chasm, 29 May 2013 - 01:12.

[cooper997]

The Garage behind the TA has had me thinking about a feature run maybe 10 years ago in Restored Cars magazine.

The feature if I remember correctly was written by Bruce A Jones and was specifically about BMC dealers in the Gold Coast region.

For some reason seeing the photo makes me wonder if a building like this appeared in the feature was indeed the same as in the TA photo. It also showed what those buildings were at the time of the feature. IIRC one was a Midas Exhaust/Service Centre.

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

The lower photo is Snow's Delahaye in 1940... entering Pit Straight at Bathurst...

I'd think a careful look at the upper photo will find its identity. Is there any chance of a clearer scan?

[Ray Bell]

Looking again at the upper photo...

Some details are good enough for me to say it's Swedberg again.

[austmcreg]

As a former Matchless owner and restorer, the bike in the garage photo is definitely a post-war G3, no later than about 1949. Ex WD Matcheless were much more austere and there were very few of them in Australia anyway.

Rob Saward

[Ray Bell]

I spoke to Barrie a little while ago...

I have e-mailed him the garage photo, the Leyburn (U-turn?) photo and the No 26 photo as well as the Warburton photo for identification.

Barry was very familiar with White's Hill, the Leyburn shot he'll probably pick up on. The garage photo, if it's a Gold Coast picture, will possibly elude him, but if it does I'd suggest looking for photos at the main Southport road junction where the Southport circuit ran.

When I spoke to Cyril Tritton back in the nineties he told me of sprints held on the Gold Coast (Southport?) too. I'm beginning to think the No 26 pic is more likely at one of those events than at Strathpine.

I'll come back with Barrie's answers later today.

Edited by Ray Bell, 29 May 2013 - 03:17.

[The Chasm]

These photos were also in Connie's album - can anyone help ID the car & year, location ?.



And the other side



Thanks in advance.

Edited by The Chasm, 29 May 2013 - 10:30.

[David McKinney]

Presumably Mrs J A S Jones's 6C-1750 Alfa Romeo, but I can't answer your other questions

[Ray Bell]

If it's that car, it's quite likely it's at Bathurst...

It raced at Bathurst in 1938, but could likely have been there spectating in 1940.

[David McKinney]

It also competed in countless other events from 1930 on, including reliability trials, so unless the background is recognisably Bathurst, the photo could have been taken anywhere

[The Chasm]

If you assume the car has not moved, there is a church on both sides of the road - how common is this in Bathurst ?.

Connie certainly had a eye for cars.

[Ray Bell]

Agreed, David, it could have been taken anywhere...

On reflection, churches in Bathurst are largely built of brick and stone, as are a lot of the inner-city houses. Brisbane, somewhere, is definitely a possibility, or some small town. Perhaps even Lithgow, en route to Bathurst... the weather looks right for there.

[The Chasm]

I have checked Google Street view and it does not fit Boyd Street Bowen Hills. I might take a trip to Boyd St today and see if "Hopefield" - there is a very impressive looking home on the crown of the hill - could be it ?.

The cars in the background of the 2nd photo might help date it.

Edited by The Chasm, 30 May 2013 - 00:19.

[Ray Bell]

The problem with the vehicles is that they are all older than Connie's time with the MG...

With nothing 'modern' in frame we have no more reasonable reference. Just to give an indication of what I mean, when I was a kid my father had a 1930 Ford A-model 'New Beauty' sedan. He bought that in 1949 and at that time it was pretty much the newest car in the neighbourhood. I would say that the newest car in this picture is about a '34 model, but that could well be the case in a lot of pictures taken up to the end of the forties in many places.

The real prospect might be that truck on the left, it is a very old truck! That's something that might not have been in use in post-war days to the same extent as the cars (all apparently from the thirties) were.

[cooper997]

Looking at the 2 photos of the Alfa, I'm tending to pick up that this is 2 photos of the car parked on the street on different days. Or at least on different times of the day and weather. To me the bonnet that the single Alfa photo is taken over, isn't that of the battered Diamond T?? Truck visible in the other shot with all the vehicles in the background.

Elevation of the land plays a part in determining whether there was 2 Churches or just one with the Alfa parked in different spots each time. Potentially raising the question of 2 separately located Churches visited by people with the religious faith.

I know that camera angles can play tricks, but the single Alfa photo is possibly even on a narrower street.

How readable is the background car's numberplate on a high res photo, Tony? That might be a clue to the State.

Then again, maybe we're just trying to read too much into a near impossible to answer pair of photos.

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

The grass tussocks and loose grass on the footpath and guttering, even on the road, indicate it's the same spot...

I'd say a shadow has come over between shots and that the truck bonnet is a totally different truck to the one visible across the road in the second shot.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by The Chasm

Drayton Garage, just south of Toowoomba...

Barrie is confident that this is correct, though he'd like to see a bit more of the building above the level shown as there would be a neon 'Purr-Pull' sign up there. He has a picture taken from the opposite angle and it clearly shows the same bowsers including the Plume one with the glass top.

The photo at Leyburn he feels is a spin, so Porter Corner would be the most logical conclusion there. He voiced no opinion on the other pic, too hard to tell.

[The Chasm]

I have received a suggestion (backed with other photos), that the mystery car in the street is a Alfa RL (maybe Targa Florio) model. There was one known in the Grafton area pre-WW2, later owned by a Mr Hough.

With the garage being identified as Drayton, perhaps Connie was collecting the car after the mechanical problem at Leyburn - the car certainly looks pristine at Drayton.

[David McKinney]

No, too small for an RL

It's a (later) 6C

[The Chasm]

This is from an unreferenced clipping found in Connie's belongings:-

The "500" Special raced in partnership by Miss Jordan and Dud Wiles has been lightened since being raced by Clem Warburton, the body rebuilt, and the Ariel Red Hunter engine has been "hotted up".

The clues are the article was written by Les Vowles, it was just before Chas Whatmore was to use his Studebaker for the last time at White's hillclimb as he was going to concentrate on the AGP to be held in June (1949).

So that shiny bodywork on what we now know was the "Lowe-Lane" Special was probably all Connie's own work !.

[Ray Bell]

I'm not sure... but I think that Charlie Whatmore didn't run at Leyburn in the AGP...

Of course, the race was ultimately held in September due to the difficulty finding a circuit.

[The Chasm]

Here is the mystery clipping - from early 1949 ?.

[austmcreg]

Would it not be better to keep everything related to the aircooled car on that thread - otherwise continuity is lost and things get more difficult to find.

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 11 June 2013 - 10:34.

[cooper997]

I've finally been able to read the newspaper clipping, as all I had been getting was the dreaded blue square with a question mark.

This is most likely from the Brisbane Telegraph in the few days prior to the Saturday, February 26, 1949 QMSC White's Hillclimb - first round for that year's Qld Hillclimb Championship.

The event report in 3/49 AMS, although not stated, will most likely have been submitted by Les Vowles. There being basic information shared in the 2 pieces.

Within the report Dud Wiles is mentioned as the only competitor in Class I and making his first appearance in motor sport. Reference is also made to him driving the ex Low(sic)-Lane - Clem Warburton 500. It had been lightened considerably and a new Ariel motor installed and Ford 10 brakes modified. It also mentions how it had briefly rained around 4pm. There isn't any mention of Connie. The report also mentions the next event would be in July.

It should probably be mentioned that Bill Lowe will most likely be the same one, who imported the Lombard's into Australia circa 1930. Then as W H Lowe & Co imported Ferraris throughout the 50's, 60's & 70's. Also Lancia's too at one stage. Bob Lane will I'm guessing be part of Melbourne's Lanes Motors family.

I agree with Rob about keeping the information in the appropriate thread. Sometimes they need to be placed on both though. So ideally the newspaper clipping should be posted on the motorbike-engine race car thread too. If Tony can do that, then I'll copy the above information over to it also.

Stephen

[Shellshear01]

I am new to this Forum and am delighted to see the two photos of the old Beadman Alfa shown here which appears to remain unidentified. These same photos are also shown under the thread on John Snow and the Delahaye. The car is an Alfa special built, I believe, by the Hume brothers in Melbourne in the early 1940's and by the mid 40's becoming the property of Reg Beadman. Reg who was a Sydneysider, joined the VSCCA in 1946 and the car was photographed on a couple of occasions. The car is an Alfa special based on a 1922 Alfa RLN (flat radiator) using the three litre six cylinder Alfa drive train,  but with I think a Delage front axle and Vauxhall wheels. The radiator was lowered a long way down between the dumb irons to give such a low bonnet line. Reg moved to north Queensland in the late 40's, probably when these photos were taken and ceased to be a member of the VSCCA. By the 1950's Reg had moved back to NSW living in Grafton where the car became well known. By the 1960's I was told the rear of the car had been replaced by a small utility tray and it was used for selling fruit and vegies around the streets of Grafton. By the 1960's the car was abandoned on the road to Sandon River out of Maclean. Some time after it was retrieved by a Maclean school boy who claimed possession. I enthusiastically inspected this largely dismantled car in the early 1980's, but sadly my attempts to purchase it came to nothing. I have never heard of it again despite having my ear to the ground and for all I know it may still be where I inspected it. The Beadman family kindly allowed me to copy many of their photos and if I could work out how to load one to this reply I would attach one of Reg in the car.  Tim Shellshear

[Shellshear01]

Have just looked into the location of the two Alfa photos and I realise that the bottom photo with the vehicles in the background is taken in Bent Street South Grafton. The Church in the background with the strutted corner eaves is know known at the Riverside Church. The church and the house to its left can be clearly seen on Google Earth streetview. So it's not a Queensland shot at all.  Tim Shellshear

[GMACKIE]

Welcome Tim....Looking forward to your input.

 

Greg

[275 GTB-4]

I am new to this Forum and am delighted to see the two photos of the old Beadman Alfa shown here which appears to remain unidentified. These same photos are also shown under the thread on John Snow and the Delahaye. The car is an Alfa special built, I believe, by the Hume brothers in Melbourne in the early 1940's and by the mid 40's becoming the property of Reg Beadman. Reg who was a Sydneysider, joined the VSCCA in 1946 and the car was photographed on a couple of occasions. The car is an Alfa special based on a 1922 Alfa RLN (flat radiator) using the three litre six cylinder Alfa drive train,  but with I think a Delage front axle and Vauxhall wheels. The radiator was lowered a long way down between the dumb irons to give such a low bonnet line. Reg moved to north Queensland in the late 40's, probably when these photos were taken and ceased to be a member of the VSCCA. By the 1950's Reg had moved back to NSW living in Grafton where the car became well known. By the 1960's I was told the rear of the car had been replaced by a small utility tray and it was used for selling fruit and vegies around the streets of Grafton. By the 1960's the car was abandoned on the road to Sandon River out of Maclean. Some time after it was retrieved by a Maclean school boy who claimed possession. I enthusiastically inspected this largely dismantled car in the early 1980's, but sadly my attempts to purchase it came to nothing. I have never heard of it again despite having my ear to the ground and for all I know it may still be where I inspected it. The Beadman family kindly allowed me to copy many of their photos and if I could work out how to load one to this reply I would attach one of Reg in the car.  Tim Shellshear

Welcome Mr President Sir! :-)

Might I suggest that you Email your pictures to Greg Mackie, he is quite the gun at posting pictures (not to mention horrid jokes that make you groan and he is also a largely untapped font of knowledge of all things old, raced and automotive!)

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 12 November 2014 - 07:54.

[Dick Willis]

Welcome to TNF, Tim. I too had often wondered about this mysterious early Alfa in nearby Grafton. I had asked Reg Beadman's son Tony about it a few times but, as you mention, its current fate remains a mystery. I did see it advertised for sale, obvioiusly unsuccessfully, in a 1950s AMS.

[Ray Bell]

Or if you don't have Greg's e.mail address, mine is at the foot of every post I make...

I'm happy to upload them and post them here for you.

[The Chasm]

Thanks Tim for tracking down the location of the Alfa photos and to the other contributors on the identity of the car. No doubt in Connie's time as a test pilot for QANTAS, a trip to Grafton from Archerfield would not have been difficult or uncommon.

 

There is a book about Connie in the pipeline, and a display at the QANTAS Museum at Longreach. Details to come. Thanks again everyone.

[275 GTB-4]

Connie appears to have got her hands dirty on the way up to being a well-dressed aerial process monkey (Pilot :-) )

An interesting lady who achieved much...

Hobart Mercury 1947

[The Chasm]

Yes, she certainly did in a time (1930's) where women in technical/hands-on roles were a very, very, rare breed.

 

She trained as a music & dance teacher, but soon found she needed a more challenging career.

 

Sadly, Connie never had children, and only got around to marriage late in life (to a land surveyor).

 

Her M.G. TA that she raced still survives today in North Queensland.

Edited by The Chasm, 13 November 2014 - 21:19.

[The Chasm]

A couple of photos from 1947 at Marsden Park Race Circuit (airfield) have been found. I'd like to post them here but can't be bothered with the image posting process.

 

If someone wants to contact me via email, I'll forward them on for posting here.

 

racedesign at optusnet dot com dot au

 

It appears the book on Connie Jordan is in doubt as Qantas Museum has no funds to support it.

 

Tony

[cooper997]

Marsden Park photos from Tony

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

 

[Ray Bell]

Great stuff, very rare pics!

Though I rather think that the second one might just be Parramatta Park. It looks like the background there rather than Llandilo.

[john medley]

A quick check of 1946 "Australian Motor Sports" magazines (when I couldn't find Connie) prompts me to ask WHICH Marsden Park meeting?

[The Chasm]

The bottom photo is annotated on the back:- Jack crossing starting line in light blue M.G. at Marsden Park 1947. Jack who ?.

The 2nd from the bottom is annotated :- Starting Line Marsden Park Airstrip 1947.

The top two photos have no annotations and each are printed on different paper & different to the last two, so you may be right Ray.

The photos are from the estate of George Roberts, held by the Qantas Heritage Collection.