128 replies to this topic

[Shiroo]

I was watching yesterday the race and I need to say IT WAS THE MOST BORING RACE EVER. And if someone disagree with me, then man, only because:
a) his fav driver won
b) his most hated driver got DNF or lost vs his closest WDC contender
c) someone enjoys ******** GP2-like overtakes and crashes
d) like procession ala resurrection procession (and to be honest is as same eventful as this race was)

Driver NOT pushing at all, cause there is simply no reason. Even if they could race 2sec faster they won't do that, cause they prefer to conserve tyres, go for 1 Pit Stop cause it is impossible overtake here between top drivers on same strategy (unless someone decide to dive bomb and hope that his opponent will simply yield, or both of them crash).
And no, it isn't Pirelli fault that drivers aren't pushing. They simply have no reason to push. What for to push if you can go for 1 pit stop, cause it won't change a ****. And going for more pit stops is NO NO in Monaco.
Also some GP2 drivers that somehow got into F1 still think that proper way to overtake is dive bomb someone and count that someone will simply yield.

So I looked at Monaco layout and thought, WHAT THE **** is need to be done to make it at least a bit more interesting and make driver push instead of cruise.



When you take a look at Monaco layout there are like 2 possibilites to make it a racing track, not the most rich and boring resurrection procession.

1) Add DRS in tunnel (too risky so I believe it is no no)
2) Remove that god damn Nouvelle Chicane and add DRS zone from TUNNEL till Tabac. Tunnel often allows to be alreayd behind the slower car, yet chicane destroys everything (unless you do DIVE BOMB kamikaze attack). It is good for nothing, place where "new drivers" like to test old folks and dive bomb just for "proper overtake", at least they think so.

First of all: It would make drivers to push in Monaco, cause if they would cruise, someone would simply overtake them in that new DRS zone like nothing. Monaco would be changed to 2-3 pit stop instead of 1 pit stop and finish. It would have shitload of overtakes, different strategies, and train wouldn't be so often as they are now. It would also remove these ******** dive bombs in that chicane.

Imagine if they would lap in 1:21 with such DRS. The guy behind would go past them like nothing. So they would need to push, change tyres etc.

And let's be honest, even gorgonzolo tyres won't change anything in Monaco unless the layout will be modified. And that is probably best thing to do with that. It would be then proper racing, with skill of driver having major role in good quali lap, yet result wouldn't be already know after qualifications.

Your thoughts? (and please, no argument aka "It isnt about racing, it is about MONACO being "that type of track" Or similar)

Edited by Shiroo, 27 May 2013 - 07:21.

[Lotusseven]

I have to ask you Shiroo - Was it the first time you watched Monaco Grand Prix yesterday ?

[Lights]

If I understood your proposal correctly, that means that two drivers could likely approach the 160km/h no run-offs Tabac corner, side by side doing close to 300km/h.

Thought about it. No.

[Shiroo]

I have to ask you Shiroo - Was it the first time you watched Monaco Grand Prix yesterday ?

nope, and each year I'm more and more bored. But now we have even more GP2 drivers that think, that dive bombing is proper way to overtake.

If I understood your proposal correctly, that means that two drivers could likely approach the 160km/h no run-offs Tabac corner, side by side doing close to 300km/h.

Thought about it. No.

With such long straight they would overtake way before, also DRS could end like 150m before Tabac

[PassWind]

Yesterday's show'n'shine procession was all about Pirelli's tires.

[jimjimjeroo]

Silly ideas, and a pass is a pass be it a "******** GP2" move or not

It's Monaco, it is what it is, hate it or love it, it'll never change.

Your ideas are dangerous, drivers have almost been killed because off accidents at the nouvelle chicane, going through there flat out, it will be a forgone conclusion!

Edited by jimjimjeroo, 27 May 2013 - 07:48.

[kosmos]

Replace with another street circuit that allows overtaking and call it Monaco.

[Lights]

With such long straight they would overtake way before, also DRS could end like 150m before Tabac

Sorry, no. You harshly underestimate the variety of circumstances that can apply for 2 cars to arrive there side by side. It will make overtaking at Monaco far more dangerous than it is now.

[ivand911]

Desire to make F1 more interesting get us in all those problems we have recently.

[bushgold]

lots of room for improvement around the rascasse section. taking a left to extend the circuit, for example.

[Wingcommander]

I like Monaco. It's different with it's own character. Yesterday's race was affected by safety cars and the red flag. After the first SC it was looking interesting because it was a question of who can go 50 laps on a set of tyres and who's going to have to pit? Who's going to push and who's going to save tyres and go the distance without stopping?

[Zoetrope]

If I understood your proposal correctly, that means that two drivers could likely approach the 160km/h no run-offs Tabac corner, side by side doing close to 300km/h.

Thought about it. No.

Besides, it is not about the track, but tyres. Drivers are already pushing on the exit of the corners that lead to long straights were overtaking is possible, then cruise for remainder of the lap. Making one straight longer won't change anything.

Edited by Zoetrope, 27 May 2013 - 07:56.

[Shiroo]

Silly ideas, and a pass is a pass be it a "******** GP2" move or not

It's Monaco, it is what it is, hate it or love it, it'll never change.

Your ideas are dangerous, drivers have almost been killed because off accidents at the nouvelle chicane, going through there flat out, it will be a forgone conclusion!

and yesterday people smashing into back of the car? Or Maldonado trying to overtake Chilton there? Isn't it already dangerous? it would make overtakes possible and a bit more incident free in that section cause they would done the overtakes before Tabac or yield

[SpartanChas]

Just about all overtakes at Monaco require cooperation from both drivers, even going up the inside, drs open, into Tabac.

Monaco always has and always will be Monaco. The layout shouldn't change to try and make it more exciting.

[Buttoneer]

If I understood your proposal correctly, that means that two drivers could likely approach the 160km/h no run-offs Tabac corner, side by side doing close to 300km/h.

Thought about it. No.

Yup.

I'd prefer retarded overtakes over dead or injured drivers.

This thread is a pointless campaign to create something from Monaco which it will never be and and without any understanding of the dangers the many changes over the years have sought to mitigate, so for that reason, I'm out.

[BigCHrome]

Monaco was a billion times more interesting than the dull Pirelli-fests of all other 2013 races.

[Baddoer]

No it wasnt.

[scheivlak]

For anyone with a brain and some patience this wasn't a boring race at all.
I saw some very crafty overtakings (di Resta on Massa, Sutil at Loews, Perez on Button 2nd time).

There have been earlier proposals to remove the chicane on this forum. Will never happen.

[Sin]

even more intresting? Compared to Barcelona it was a GREAT improvement... I was sitting on the edge of my seat till the end.... seeing them racing.... it was just a bit too long through the 2 safety cars and the red flag

[redreni]

It is what it is. I am very much opposed to making it more interesting. Leave it alone.

[EvanRainer]

For anyone with a brain and some patience this wasn't a boring race at all.
I saw some very crafty overtakings (di Resta on Massa, Sutil at Loews, Perez on Button 2nd time).

There have been earlier proposals to remove the chicane on this forum. Will never happen.

Seriously, I would question the sanity of anyone who claims the race was "boring".

Not like it, sure. But not interesting? lol

[Boxerevo]

No it wasnt.

Agree,was a good race... was somewhat fun after safety car.

My only problem with this era,is the slow pace by nursing tyres.

Edited by Boxerevo, 27 May 2013 - 08:25.

[swerved]

Hold the Monaco GP in Weston Super Mare, it also has a coastline.

[Jackmancer]

F1 cars through the streets of Monaco is a sight beautiful enough on itself. Don't need even more artificial racing. I enjoyed yesterdays race. In Monaco I'm fine with little overtaking. Hey, it's Monaco!

[wewantourdarbyback]

With such long straight they would overtake way before, also DRS could end like 150m before Tabac

So you're still arriving at a 90 degree corner at 180mph with no kind of run off....?

[Sin]

2) Remove that god damn Nouvelle Chicane and add DRS zone from TUNNEL till Tabac. Tunnel often allows to be alreayd behind the slower car, yet chicane destroys everything (unless you do DIVE BOMB kamikaze attack). It is good for nothing, place where "new drivers" like to test old folks and dive bomb just for "proper overtake", at least they think so.

You know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there is a reason they put a chicane there... like safety?

[Jimisgod]

Shoot all the people who cry and moan for the one race of the year we see the cars go on a real street track.

I watch for the qualifying anyway, best quali session of the year by far.

[Kelateboy]

How to make Monaco more interesting?

Ditch the circuit!

[Baddoer]

[svalgis]

replace it with a good circuit, that would do it.

[muramasa]

They've been doing it already....attaching high premium and vip society status or that's why Monaco can remain in calendar. chicken or egg dilemma

Edited by muramasa, 27 May 2013 - 09:42.

[Crafty]

Show more of Princess Charlene

[joshb]

All these people moaning about get rid of Monaco.... if they ever did, how many would try and stand up for it? Quite a few

It's a unique challenge- most of the boredom early one was down to the tyres not just the track.. there's not really much to do- perhaps straightline the 2nd part of piscine and get a wider entry into Rascasse but that'sabout it. No way they'll run straight through to Tabac without the chicane

[noikeee]

I don't like processions, but one single race per year where track position is king is more than fine. It's interesting, refreshing, adds variety. It's also a very challenging track with a great past. Nothing needs to change about Monaco really.

[Kobasmashi]

Shiroo is only moaning because he's a Lotus fan and they had a bit of a mare. I mean, I'm a Hamilton fan and I thought it was a great race, which sort of disbands the "my favourite driver did well" theory... And the only way to overtake in Monaco is divebombing, do people honestly prefer Istanbul/Malaysia style DRS cruises past?!

[Risil]

You know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there is a reason they put a chicane there... like safety?

Probably not, given that there's been a (different) chicane there since 1929. It's more to do with the streets of Monaco, and transferring cars from the Boulevard Louis II to the Quai des Etats-Unis. If they carried on in a straight line they'd end up approaching Ste-Devote from the opposite direction!

And although they're claiming new land from the sea there all the time, there's not as yet any space to shift the whole straight after the tunnel about one lane to the left.

[Masenco]

Have to say, i found it enjoyable.
Loved seeing lewis being aggresive behind mw, i miss seeing him doing that with these tyres that usually dont allow it.

Also liked the overtaking that happened, which is 100x more thrilling than the drs overtakes we've been seeing this year.

[Jon83]

Yesterday's show'n'shine procession was all about Pirelli's tires.

Monaco was a procession before Pirelli came on the scene.

Though the slow speed for a lot of yesterday was obviously down to tyre management.

[SunnyENTP]

If Kimi wont would the OP make this post?

As for drivers not pushing and it not being Pirellis fault, Did you even watch the race? Because you would have seen they were pushing and overtaking. I mean even Perez managed to do overtake Button something he could not do in the awful Barcelona race. Did you would see that Nico/Lewis set fastest laps just before the safety car came out. Clearly holding back because of your favourite Pirelli Tyres.


Its obvious you love Pirelli because it suits Lotus/Kimi

You have Monaco and Lotus and Kimi were awful

As for it being the most boring race, it was a lot better than the sham that was Barcelona

But anyway loving you hypocrisy


As

[Lelouch]

I don't think it was too bad compared to what we've seen this year. Sure, it lasted too much due to SC and RF and a big part of it was ruined by teams switching to 1-stop strategy but at least after the last SC we enjoyed some good action (and sometimes recklessness -.-). I'd say that by 2013 standards Monaco was ok, after all most of what we've seen so far is mediocre.

[makroncommander]

Remember Monaco is a street circuit, you cant move and correct like a race track. you'd have to buy property and demolish to reshape it

This is a unique track and should be kept on the calendar. The drivers go so close to the barriers at great speed is such a thrill to watch.

Whether you like it or not, Monaco has always been a procession.

Every year we have a similar thread with fans of the drivers that lost out complain. Everything will be forgotten once Montreal comes by.

[Ickx]

I like Monaco. Processions is part of the game but it was painfull to see this years drive slow show. 20 laps later and every single car on track having the same lap time and not a gap anywhere.

[dau]

This year's GP was a pretty standard Monaco race, probably even above-average. It was certainly not the "MOST BORING RACE EVER", so i think you're just a tad overreacting there. But these threads appear after just about every (dry) Monaco race, so i'm only surprised it took you until Monday.

That being said, i don't think your proposals are a realistic option. First of all, you just can't put a straight there. Like Risil said, with the way the circuit is run today, they need to get the cars from Boulevard Louis II to the Quai des Etats-Unis. Even if they could put a straight there, running the tunnel to Tabac without any chicane would just be too dangerous. There's no runoff there. A brake failure or tangle between two cars would result in a massive shunt and block the whole track, which could easily lead multi-car accidents.

However, what they could do is try to move the chicane, by running from Boulevard Louis II straight onto the Avenue JF Kennedy (which they now use as runoff) and then from there down to Quai des Etats-Unis. On the plus side, that would give drivers another 100-150m to get alongside the guy in front and it would remove that barrier spike between Louis II and JF Kennedy where Perez and Wendlinger crashed heavily.

On the downside, however, Avenue JF Kennedy looks like this:


And this would probably be their best bet to put a chicane:


So we would have a narrow road enclosed by buildings on one and trees on the other side, ending in a tight chicane in between a row of trees and a stone balustrade, with cars arriving at speeds just below the 300kph mark. Not going to happen.

The only realistic option they have is trying to fix the braking zone into Nouvelle Chicane. If they could get rid of the bumps, we should get more overtakes. I guess they could also put some soft barriers in the chicane where the white lines are now, so people couldn't just cut and had to yield earlier, but i'm not sure if that would even help overtaking.

[Jon83]

Show more of Princess Charlene

[Lemans]

Clone Perez.

[NotSoSilentBob]

With such long straight they would overtake way before, also DRS could end like 150m before Tabac

errr.... DRS ends when someone BRAKES.

I've also thought about your proposal, and without a decent runoff at Tabac it's tantamount to driving at a brick wall flat out.

Edited by NotSoSilentBob, 27 May 2013 - 13:07.

[SpaMaster]

Nice thread.

Suggestions to make Monaco GP interesting.
1. Remove it from the calendar
2. Pirelli tyres that are 2-3 levels softer.

[HaydenFan]

I thought it was a good race.

Add a jump after the tunnel turn. Not a big one, more like a rallycross speed bump.

[falalalalaland]

Thought it was pretty standard Monaco. Can't do much since the cars are so wide now (vs a few decades ago) and the streets are not going to magically expand.
Have to admit the SC/Red Flag/SC/yellow flag xyz fest was kinda tiresome in the moment but come next year May I will be like "OMG it's Monaco!!" all over again.

[muramasa]

The only realistic option they have is trying to fix the braking zone into Nouvelle Chicane. If they could get rid of the bumps, we should get more overtakes. I guess they could also put some soft barriers in the chicane where the white lines are now, so people couldn't just cut and had to yield earlier, but i'm not sure if that would even help overtaking.

i heard they smoothed that bump section rather recently, but it's still quite bumpy. I wonder there's rock or pipe or tree roots under there anyway yea fixing that bump there will be quite an improvement.

soft barriers at chicane is one idea, but seeing many cars going straight there from FP, i think it would be destroyed quite quickly, like those pylons at Monza years back. Maybe the best they can is to paint the whole run-off area rather than white lines.