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Kimi vs Perez Monaco incident [merged]


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Poll: Raikkonen vs Perez - Monaco (441 member(s) have cast votes)

Who was to blame

  1. Raikkonen (41 votes [9.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.38%

  2. Perez (339 votes [77.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 77.57%

  3. Racing incident (57 votes [13.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.04%

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#51 skywing

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:02

Just look where are the cars in front of Kimi, thats racing line. He just wanted to squeeze him into the barrier.

Kimi was allowed to choose his line, Perez wasn't alongside him.

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#52 Disgrace

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:03

Just look where are the cars in front of Kimi, thats racing line. He just wanted to squeeze him into the barrier.


Or perhaps to tell them the space wasn't there in the first place.

#53 Raikkonen94

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:03

Just look where are the cars in front of Kimi, thats racing line. He just wanted to squeeze him into the barrier.


Kimi already took a more defending line, so that Perez woulden't go to the inside. There was no room for a F1 car there, but clearly Perez thought otherwise. Just a very stupid move, thought he could overtake anyone anywhere.

#54 Vesuvius

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:05

Just look where are the cars in front of Kimi, thats racing line. He just wanted to squeeze him into the barrier.


Again...watch where perez comes from, no where near of Kimi and still tries to overtake. The full onboard video shows it better, when coming out of the tunnel he is far away.

#55 TailG

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:06

Just look where are the cars in front of Kimi, thats racing line. He just wanted to squeeze him into the barrier.


Kimi was fully ahead, he had every right to choose a defensive line. Kimi was under no obligation to leave room because Perez wasn't alongside when Kimi chose his line.

#56 speng

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:07

Two mistakes were made, one by Perez for trying to pass from so far back and the other Kimi for turning in on Perez. Both at fault.

Edited by speng, 26 May 2013 - 16:07.


#57 ruby soho

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:07

Perez came from way too far back, but Kimi also kinda moved over in the braking zone(before the turn-in point), causing the contact that happened.

But to be fair to Kimi, he was kind of in a bad situation with the precedent set earlier in the race that if Perez had gone on and only barely made the corner, making Kimi have to cut the corner, Kimi would have to concede the position. That was probably pretty frustrating and its hard to blame Kimi for trying to do something to prevent it, but it was admittedly too late at that point.

:up:
I know you are not particularly fond of Kimi, but I respect your objectivity

#58 juanma9

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:08

I think Raikkonen wasn't having none of it after the previous scare so he closed in "to punish him" but it backfired. A racing incident in my opinion.

#59 Gorma

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:08

Just look where are the cars in front of Kimi, thats racing line. He just wanted to squeeze him into the barrier.

Yeah... Kimi is known for crashing other people on the track and not leaving enough room. Perez on the other hand is known for his amazing overtaking skills.

Come on. Everyone was just waiting for this mad dive from the beginning. Kimi was defending for his position fair and square. Perez would have never made that turn. Moves like that cannot be considered racing incidents when they always happen to the same person. Grosjean out, Perez out and Maldonado out (although not his fault).

I'm just glad that Kimi did not retire and drove an amazing run with the supersofts passing many other drivers continuing his points streak.

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#60 muramasa

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:08

Just look where are the cars in front of Kimi, thats racing line. He just wanted to squeeze him into the barrier.

Kimi was taking more inside line than normal, all the way, not just braking zone, to defend his position. Havent seen it before?


#61 garoidb

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:09

Perez was never going to make the corner, he would have just cut the chicane and then demand on the radio for Kimi to let him pass.


Yup.

#62 Seanspeed

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:11

Kimi already took a more defending line, so that Perez woulden't go to the inside. There was no room for a F1 car there, but clearly Perez thought otherwise.

There was definitely still room there for an F1 car. More than enough. The problem comes from having to turn-in from such an inside line at that corner. It would have been extremely difficult for Sergio, but perhaps not impossible.

Whats unlikely, is that Sergio could have made the corner without running wide, possibly running Kimi off or having to cut the corner himself. So for that, its hard not to put most of the blame on Perez.

I do think Kimi turned-in too early, though. He wanted to prevent Perez from making a move and was relying on Perez being smart enough to realize that he couldn't make it with Kimi positioned where he was, but technically there was still a gap there and Perez was already committed.

:up:
I know you are not particularly fond of Kimi, but I respect your objectivity

I like Kimi. There's a few that insist I dont, but they dont know me.

Edited by Seanspeed, 26 May 2013 - 16:14.


#63 Lights

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:11

If anyone looks at this picture and can still blame Kimi from the crash... I don't know how stupid you could be.

Then again, it's never smart to solely judge accidents based on a picture.

#64 intelligentsia

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:14

This whole situation is ridiculous it shouldn't even be debatable. If you cant make a pass while the other driver has to stay on the circuit then it isn't a pass.

Alonso shouldn't have had to yield the place to Perez in the first place, and Perez was wrong to try the same move on Kimi. You cant just drive into a space and expect the other driver to drive off the race track. Why didn't Perez try his moves at another place on the circuit? Because there would obviously be a crash, just because there is a open space to take avoiding action doesn't mean Perez should try to push others off the track. This shouldn't even be open for debate, Perez deserves a penalty at the very least.

#65 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:15

There was definitely still room there for an F1 car. More than enough. The problem comes from having to turn-in from such an inside line at that corner. It would have been extremely difficult for Sergio, but perhaps not impossible.

Whats unlikely, is that Sergio could have made the corner without running wide, possibly running Kimi off or having to cut the corner himself. So for that, its hard not to put most of the blame on Perez.

I do think Kimi turned-in too early, though. He wanted to prevent Perez from making a move and was relying on Perez being smart enough to realize that he couldn't make it with Kimi positioned where he was, but technically there was still a gap there.


I often think you are fair in your opinions, but if you lay the blame anywhere but Checo for being a donkey here, then we have a huge difference of opinion.

The line Checo attempted was impossible for the chicane. He would have ran straight and forced Kimi to cut the chicane too. What baffles me is that there is no investigation on such driving -- not cool.

#66 Lights

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:16

But to be fair to Kimi, he was kind of in a bad situation with the precedent set earlier in the race that if Perez had gone on and only barely made the corner, making Kimi have to cut the corner, Kimi would have to concede the position. That was probably pretty frustrating and its hard to blame Kimi for trying to do something to prevent it, but it was admittedly too late at that point.

I noticed this problem after Sergio overtook Alonso. To overtake, all you have to do in that corner is to get your car somewhat alongside on the inside, then you basically win the position. Because in F1 you're allowed to run a car wide on the exit, but you're not allowed to cut the track because you're ran wide by another car.

Edited by Lights, 26 May 2013 - 16:16.


#67 TailG

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:18

Kimi didn't close the door, he chose the defensive line way before Perez was alongside and that was his right. Perez was way too aggressive.

Perez really needs to learn to basics.

#68 SUPRAF1

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:18

Perez was way too far back IMO. If he had been hugging Kimi's back the entire time then Kimi might have yielded.

Edited by SUPRAF1, 26 May 2013 - 16:19.


#69 Impulse^

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:19

After Perez first failed attempt, which was what 10 laps earlier(?) - Kimi changed his racing line into the chicane. He drove every single lap after that with the same racing line - a racing line which was more to the inside and a lot more defensive. He changed his approach to the chicane and turned in a position not normally used (non-optimal, but defensive), aiming for the inside apex instead of the outside apex used by others (and him usually). One would have thought, that Perez would have noticed this in the 10 laps, that there simply isn't any room on the inside anymore.

Idiotic attempt by Perez, his fault. If Kimi had been driving on the normal race line, I would have called it a racing incident or Kimis fault if he still had closed the door on Perez.

PS. Sorry for any improper use of racing terms. And I wholly admit not knowing what I'm talking about. Just what I think happened. :)

Edited by Impulse^, 26 May 2013 - 16:25.


#70 JRodrigues

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:19

To Pérez and paraphrasing Montoya: "You fu**ing idiot"

Edited by JRodrigues, 26 May 2013 - 16:20.


#71 charly0418

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:20

Yes its Perez fault, but Kimmi did close the corner nowhere near the apex and squished Sergio

It's a racing incident and that's end of it.

#72 intelligentsia

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:23

Just look where are the cars in front of Kimi, thats racing line. He just wanted to squeeze him into the barrier.


And why should Perez try to stick his nose in there? He always knew that Kimi was about to turn left to make the chicane, and he knew there was a wall in front of him.

The fact that Perez afterwards said Kimi should have driven over the chicane says it all. Why do you dive into a space and expect the other driver to actually drive off the race track?


#73 Lights

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:25

Fernando Alonso ‏@alo_oficial 3m
Worse luck for Kimi who has only one point without his fault, today we finished behind one of our competitors and in front of another.

Pretty clear how Fernando thinks about the accident.

#74 mattferg

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:26

Kimi turned in early to catch Perez out and force him into the barrier, there was nowhere for Perez to go. Kimi's fault, but he got what he deserved with his puncture so no penalty.

#75 kenkip

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:26

Silly driving from Perez,but the biggest mistake he did was crashing into Kimi,if he crashed into Di resta or Webber no one would have given a damn!

#76 Raikkonen94

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:27

Yes its Perez fault, but Kimmi did close the corner nowhere near the apex and squished Sergio

It's a racing incident and that's end of it.


If you see this as a racing incident, probably the Grosjean-Ricciardo one was a race incident as well.

#77 rijole1

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:27

Perez was never going to make the corner, he would have just cut the chicane and then demand on the radio for Kimi to let him pass.

Exactly. The smart boy Perez thought - "why shouldn't it work this time also?"
I think I'll never forgive Perez...  ;) :mad:

#78 skywing

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:28

And why should Perez try to stick his nose in there? He always knew that Kimi was about to turn left to make the chicane, and he knew there was a wall in front of him.

The fact that Perez afterwards said Kimi should have driven over the chicane says it all. Why do you dive into a space and expect the other driver to actually drive off the race track?

Yup

And if this pushing others of the track mentality is not punished it is not difficult to predict what everyone should do in Canada.

Just divebomb everybody into the final chicane, force them off the track and cry on the radio that the other driver cut the track. Easy overtake right? :drunk:

#79 artista

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:30

Pretty clear how Fernando thinks about the accident.

I watched him while he was being interviewed by the Spanish TV and, yep, he has a pretty clear opinion on the issue and, nope, he doesn't have much faith in Pérez driving abilities

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#80 Boxerevo

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:30

Was a racing incident,but not 50% responsability for each one.

Perez was too far away,even if didn't "block",they would have crashed because there is no space for two doing the chicane.

Lewis schooled him on suzuka last year for that,Kimi did the same today.

I like Perez,he is a racing guy and maturity will come.

Edited by Boxerevo, 26 May 2013 - 16:31.


#81 Tosh

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:32

Kimi didn't close the door, he chose the defensive line way before Perez was alongside and that was his right. Perez was way too aggressive.

Perez really needs to learn to basics.


I think so too. By the way he positioned his car before the braking zone he kinda said to Perez not to overshoot it.

#82 mattferg

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:33

I watched him while he was being interviewed by the Spanish TV and, yep, he has a pretty clear opinion on the issue and, nope, he doesn't have much faith in Pérez driving abilities


Yep, Fernando bias has nothing to do with the fact the stewards destroyed him over illegally cutting the corner and not yielding to Perez.

#83 Topsu

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:34

Watching Perez's interviews really makes me sick. He says that if anyone could have avoided the crash, it was Kimi. Well how about not diving desperately and hoping people will yield?! He really thinks that forcing someone to cut a chicane is a valid method of overtaking. He comes off so arrogant, childish and annoying.

#84 wrcva

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:35

I would pay to see Gro and Perez entering that turn together... :rotfl:

#85 JRodrigues

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:36



#86 Seanspeed

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:37

I often think you are fair in your opinions, but if you lay the blame anywhere but Checo for being a donkey here, then we have a huge difference of opinion.

The line Checo attempted was impossible for the chicane. He would have ran straight and forced Kimi to cut the chicane too. What baffles me is that there is no investigation on such driving -- not cool.

If read my post, I do say that it was mostly Perez's fault.

But the contact could have been avoided. Kimi knew he was there, knew what Perez was doing and still squeezed him anyways.

#87 darkkis

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:41

I have to disagree on that video uploader's opinion about the situation being "hilarious". :drunk:

#88 Vesuvius

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:42

If read my post, I do say that it was mostly Perez's fault.

But the contact could have been avoided. Kimi knew he was there, knew what Perez was doing and still squeezed him anyways.


Contact could have been avoided but Kimi didn't think Perez is really that dumb to try and overtake from way too far as he was not close enough. Kimi's only mistake was to trust Perez...people don't change, perez is like this and he will always stay like this.

#89 asmodeo

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:46

Contact could have been avoided but Kimi didn't think Perez is really that dumb to try and overtake from way too far as he was not close enough. Kimi's only mistake was to trust Perez...people don't change, perez is like this and he will always stay like this.


Trsut Perez or you don't pass me with a dive bomb?


#90 intelligentsia

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:48

If read my post, I do say that it was mostly Perez's fault.

But the contact could have been avoided. Kimi knew he was there, knew what Perez was doing and still squeezed him anyways.


Contact could have been avoided if Kimi drove off the race track that is not overtaking.


#91 skywing

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:49

Contact could have been avoided if Kimi drove off the race track that is not overtaking.

Someone should tell that to Perez.

#92 artista

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:51

Yep, Fernando bias has nothing to do with the fact the stewards destroyed him over illegally cutting the corner and not yielding to Perez.

Alonso is one of the world champions that stood up to support Räikkönen when he talked during a drivers meeting for the first time in his racing career a few weeks ago. Kimi was complaining about Pérez pushing people off track.
The problems the world champions have with Pérez have not begun this weekend. It's a much more serious issue, and that's what Alonso was talking about on Spanish TV
I'm not going to enter to discuss the Alonso/Pérez incident with you here but, after the stewards made what -for me- is a wrong decision, I already predicted everything that happened afterwards (you can read it in the Lotus thread). And I could predict it even if I'm not an Alonso fan and do have Checo in high regards as a person. It was not a difficult prediction to make, Checo had just been told the right way to gain positions was forcing people off track in the chicane.



#93 fabr68

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:52

It is nice to see the new drivers such as Perez and Groshean, who think drivers should run off track to avoid contact with them.

A race ban in the making...?

#94 Seanspeed

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:52

Contact could have been avoided if Kimi drove off the race track that is not overtaking.

And Kimi would not have had to pit, only give up the position. If Perez just came out of nowhere, it'd be one thing, but it seemed like Kimi knew exactly what he was doing and turned in on him anyways. Probably out of frustration and annoyance, and thats understandable, but was it the smartest thing to do at the end of the day?

#95 MinardiSpeed

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:52

Perez is a ****ing idiot, that is all.

Almost destroyed Nando's race and screwed Kimis.

#96 skywing

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:54

It is nice to see the new drivers such as Perez and Groshean, who think drivers should run off track to avoid contact with them.

A race ban in the making...?

Not sure about a race ban but something has to be done.

And I'm not a Alonso fan at all but he was robbed for avoiding certain contact.

#97 2ms

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:55

They need to give Perez a penalty that hurts. It's the only way he will learn. Otherwise, he'll just keep thinking he was right, Kimi was wrong, and that the way he does things is the way to gain positions.

#98 Pitlane

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:56

Most crashes can be avoided by just letting the other guy pass, but this is racing, is it not? And in racing theres rules on what is OK and whats not. Divebombing is not. Mmkay?

#99 Mc_Silver

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:56

If perez is idiot, then what is Kimi?



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#100 FenderJaguar

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:56

I think in the long rung Kimi was right to close the door on Perez. There has been so much talk about what a clean driver Kimi is. Might be good to have this so other drivers know he just doesn't move over to be nice. Stupid move by Perez who put his nose in a place where he was expecting other drivers to move over. Not once but a lot of times.