Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 2 votes

Kimi vs Perez Monaco incident [merged]


  • Please log in to reply
807 replies to this topic

Poll: Raikkonen vs Perez - Monaco (441 member(s) have cast votes)

Who was to blame

  1. Raikkonen (41 votes [9.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.38%

  2. Perez (339 votes [77.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 77.57%

  3. Racing incident (57 votes [13.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.04%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#101 grunge

grunge
  • Member

  • 4,266 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:56


No surprises when the Sky team gave a unanimous verdict blaming Perez as being the sole cause of the incident..Chandok/Davidson/Others said the same...

Perez needs to have a psychiatric evaluation done....Thats just pure ''delusional'' if he thought the other drivers around him were going to just park their cars on the sides and let him go by when he was planning those banzai moves...Also hallucinating gaps when there were none there.

I was shocked when i first saw it live and after revisiting it multiple times,i still am..Look at the Screenshot and the Video posted above...Even if Kimi had completely yielded,there was no way Perez was going to make the corner.He would've run wide,cut the chicane and pushed KR completely off the track.

The latter was taking a defensive line into the corner,closing the opening...something which every single driver does..and hed been doing that for the past 12-15 laps with Perez on his tail...I cant imagine why Perez suddenly thought he could make that move from so far behind and with no realistic chance of making the corner without going off track and taking KR with him.

KR is pretty much the cleanest driver on the grid.and when someone pushes/chops him off,he never moans or complains..even shrugged his shoulders and refused to comment after Webbo made those ''maybe he was drunk'' comments or when he chopped off the Finn's front wing in Brazil.

But this is actually the first time in his career ,he made it a point to raise the issue in the previous drivers briefing session after Perez ran him off in China..Im sure it will be raised again next time...There are many others on the grid that agree with KR on this including 3 WDCs Hamilton,Button and Alonso

Advertisement

#102 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 9,582 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 16:59

KR is pretty much the cleanest driver on the grid.and when someone pushes/chops him off,he never moans or complains..even shrugged his shoulders and refused to comment after Webbo made those ''maybe he was drunk'' comments or when he chopped off the Finn's front wing in Brazil.


He is very clean, but his radio messages after someone chops him are anything but.

Edited by Disgrace, 26 May 2013 - 16:59.


#103 skywing

skywing
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:00

If perez is idiot, then what is Kimi?

If Kimi is an idiot, then what is Lewis?



But neither of these incidents are relevant to what happened today.

#104 Pitlane

Pitlane
  • Member

  • 433 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:01

If perez is idiot, then what is Kimi?

That has nothing to do with a divebombing move.

#105 race addicted

race addicted
  • Member

  • 19,478 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:02

Hard to call. I think Räikkönen made his intentions clear very early, he placed his car in the middle of the road to signal to Perez, "forget it!". The perhaps over-ambitious Perez still went for it, but then again Räikkönen also knows an F1 car isn't half a metre wide.

Biggest downside IMO is that Räikkönen gave away so many points on Vettel.

#106 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,119 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:04

Fairly easy to see it was a bonehead move:

1- From way too far back.
2- Not enough alongside to gain right to a car´s width of room on the inside.
3- Too much speed into the corner, would have missed it.
4- When first contact happens, Räikkönen is still leaving a car´s width between him and the wall, even if Perez didn´t do enough to gain it.

#107 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:05

I think it was Kimi's fault. Kimi should never have left the racing line and he squeezed Perez too hard too late causing him to go nowhere but in the barrier.

Was a racing incident, though I hate it when drivers just turn in on people trying to overtake to entertain us fans. Alonso and Button dealt with it much better and thats why they got more points than Kimi. Perez shown he was very good at pulling off that move.

#108 skywing

skywing
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:07

I think it was Kimi's fault. Kimi should never have left the racing line and he squeezed Perez too hard too late causing him to go nowhere but in the barrier.

Was a racing incident, though I hate it when drivers just turn in on people trying to overtake to entertain us fans. Alonso and Button dealt with it much better and thats why they got more points than Kimi. Perez shown he was very good at pulling off that move.

:drunk:

Kimi had every right to choose whatever line he wanted, Perez was so far away. Not even close to being alongside.

#109 grunge

grunge
  • Member

  • 4,266 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:07

And Kimi would not have had to pit, only give up the position. If Perez just came out of nowhere, it'd be one thing, but it seemed like Kimi knew exactly what he was doing and turned in on him anyways. Probably out of frustration and annoyance, and thats understandable, but was it the smartest thing to do at the end of the day?

So if someone makes a banzai move,the driver in front is just supposed to politely go off track,lose time and give up that position..Not to mention the guy behind Perez was also less than a second behind and there is a fair chance he couldve attempted a pass after KR lost that time running wide and then rejoining the track..

This is not a Charity event,Its Formula One....where the WDC/WCC may be decided by a single point.

#110 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 1,283 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:09

If perez is idiot, then what is Kimi?


Not even comparable, nice try though.

#111 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,119 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:10

I think it was Kimi's fault. Kimi should never have left the racing line and he squeezed Perez too hard too late causing him to go nowhere but in the barrier.

Was a racing incident, though I hate it when drivers just turn in on people trying to overtake to entertain us fans. Alonso and Button dealt with it much better and thats why they got more points than Kimi. Perez shown he was very good at pulling off that move.


Why oh why everytime any racing incident happens, no matter how clear cut it is, I have to facepalm reading clueless comments? Knowing racing ettiquete is first thing you should do before watching motorsport. It´s a must.

To gain a car´s width of room on the inside of a corner you need a significant portion of your can alongside the rival. Anyway, pay some attention to the video, and you´ll see Räikkönen was leaving a car´s width before the first contact despite Perez not deserving it.

#112 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 1,283 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:11

Knowing racing ettiquete is first thing you should do before watching motorsport. It´s a must.



:up: :up: x1000

#113 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:11

:drunk:

Kimi had every right to choose whatever line he wanted, Perez was so far away. Not even close to being alongside.

He didn't have hte right because he hit Perez with the side of his car, Perez did not rear end Kimi. Kimi should have left space.

#114 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 5,161 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:11

Posted Image

Posted Image


To be honest looking at that I think both of them drove like idiots. But then again Perez saw that the FIA allowed to use that technique to overtake Alonso so he just grabbed the opportunity with both hands, and then it backfired.

Edited by prty, 26 May 2013 - 17:13.


#115 petri

petri
  • Member

  • 1,618 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:11

I think it was Kimi's fault. Kimi should never have left the racing line and he squeezed Perez too hard too late causing him to go nowhere but in the barrier.

Was a racing incident, though I hate it when drivers just turn in on people trying to overtake to entertain us fans. Alonso and Button dealt with it much better and thats why they got more points than Kimi. Perez shown he was very good at pulling off that move.

Emotional post with no common sense at all.


#116 skywing

skywing
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:12

He didn't have hte right because he hit Perez with the side of his car, Perez did not rear end Kimi. Kimi should have left space.

Perez hit Kimis rear wheel. How is that hitting the side?

#117 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,224 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:14

So if someone makes a banzai move,the driver in front is just supposed to politely go off track,lose time and give up that position..Not to mention the guy behind Perez was also less than a second behind and there is a fair chance he couldve attempted a pass after KR lost that time running wide and then rejoining the track..

You're not getting what I'm saying - if you KNOW somebody is making a banzai move, its probably not very smart to turn your car into them. Kimi may have lost the position(not that I agree with that), but he wouldn't have had to pit for repairs. That could well have resulted in a DNF.

This is not a Charity event,Its Formula One....where the WDC/WCC may be decided by a single point.

Well......exactly.

#118 nowayback

nowayback
  • Member

  • 48 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:16

I think Perez has been playing too much playstation. To make a successful pass, u must also stay on the road after the pass, and with the angle Perez took there was no way he woulndt cut the chicane.

To the People who complain about Kimis line, well what about Perez's line? you mean Kimi was too left to make the chicane? and Perez was even more left. Proof, the previous pass attempt, where kimi left some room and they both went thru the chicane., and there Perez braked even earlier.

#119 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,119 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:16

To be honest looking at that I think both of them drove like idiots.


Oh dear oh dear. Someone please post a sticker with racing ettiquete basics on top of racing comments forum before my eyes start bleeding.

Advertisement

#120 Toffeli

Toffeli
  • Member

  • 89 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:16

If perez is idiot, then what is Kimi?


Lost control of the car vs overly aggressive and stupid overtaking move :drunk:

#121 selespeed

selespeed
  • Member

  • 1,054 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:20

monaco is the track where if you want ot overtake you have to take massive risks...perez decided to take the risk and on 2 occasions where drivers didn't block he made a move stick...raikkonen was blocking hard on both overtaking atempts...hence the result...

the other crash where driver decided to block was ricciardo and grojean...grosjean was gaining through the tunnel and ricciardo left his car in the middle of the road...crash....

#122 nowayback

nowayback
  • Member

  • 48 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:21

You're not getting what I'm saying - if you KNOW somebody is making a banzai move, its probably not very smart to turn your car into them. Kimi may have lost the position(not that I agree with that), but he wouldn't have had to pit for repairs. That could well have resulted in a DNF.


Well......exactly.

That move , divebombing can be done on most hairpins in any track, all day long. the point is if a drvier has any brains he knows it only ends in 2 ways, crash or the lead driver gives up his position, soon he will be losing many positions. I wonder why none of the top drivers tried it?

#123 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 5,161 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:21

Oh dear oh dear. Someone please post a sticker with racing ettiquete basics on top of racing comments forum before my eyes start bleeding.


Get off your high horse.

You can defend, but if you don't defend well enough (ie. still leave a car's width to the edge of the car), the other car can go there. That's what Kimi did, left too much space. He wasn't going full defensive because he was doing it every lap. Then when he realized Perez went for that still available space, instead of conceding that he didn't fully defend, he turned on him to close the space too late and already went into the braking zone, which is a big no-no.

On the other hand, Perez did his move while being too far back, and it was never going to work unless Raikkonen got out of the way from him, and he wasn't alongside him by a long way. He saw that technique was successful with Alonso and wanted to repeat it. So yes, both of them are idiots for different reasons.

Although I don't blame Raikkonen as much as Perez, because if the stewards don't do their job, maybe the drivers have to take justice into their hands. If he hadn't turned into him, he would have overtaken without a penalty. So the root of this is the bad job in applying the rules.

Edited by prty, 26 May 2013 - 17:25.


#124 charly0418

charly0418
  • Member

  • 1,203 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:22

Kimi did his share of stupid things when he was young. Sadly all the Kimi fans here started following F1 in 2011

#125 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,119 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:23

Get off your high horse.

You can defend, but if you don't defend well enough (ie. still leave a car's width to the edge of the car), the other car can go there. That's what Kimi did, leave too much space. He wasn't going full defensive because he was doing it every lap. Then when he realized Perez went for that still available space, instead of conceding he didn't fully defend, he turned on him to close the space.

On the other hand, Perez did his move while being too far back, and it was never going to work unless Raikkonen got out of the way from him, and he wasn't alongside him by a long way. So yes, both of them are idiots for different reasons.


You think I´m on a horse because you´re on basement 4. To gain a car´s width on the inside you need to be like 50/70% alongside.

And if you think this has to do with the fact Räikkönen´s involved, I encourage you to read my view on his pass on Vettel last race.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 26 May 2013 - 17:27.


#126 holiday

holiday
  • Member

  • 3,470 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:23

Perez front wheel was besides KR rear wheel when KR turned IN on Perez.
Perez didn't hit KR it was KR that hit Perez.


As you say, Perez was nowhere parallel to Kimi. Classic closed-eyes dive-bombing.



#127 Taxi

Taxi
  • Member

  • 3,034 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:24

It's funny when I saw Alonso had to give his place to Perez, I thought.. Kimi is doomed. I always prefer to see alonso back, but not this time. Alongside Kimi he is probabily the most reliable on the grid.

Ahah the radio transmision "that idiot will crash into me!" Kimi really knows what he's doing.

#128 asmodeo

asmodeo
  • Member

  • 93 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:24

monaco is the track where if you want ot overtake you have to take massive risks...perez decided to take the risk and on 2 occasions where drivers didn't block he made a move stick...raikkonen was blocking hard on both overtaking atempts...hence the result...

the other crash where driver decided to block was ricciardo and grojean...grosjean was gaining through the tunnel and ricciardo left his car in the middle of the road...crash....


Sutil pass to Alonso, Button pass to Alonso, Sutil pass to Button, di Resta? pass to Massa, Kimi last laps,... Where is the massive risks? It's the difference between F1 drivers and playstation drivers.



#129 OfficeLinebacker

OfficeLinebacker
  • Member

  • 14,019 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:24

I wonder what would happen to Checo if he tried driving like this in NASCAR.

#130 kimster89

kimster89
  • Member

  • 617 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:26

Im pretty sure Checo will ruin someones championship hopes, just like Grosejean last year.

#131 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 5,161 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:27

You think I´m on a horse because you´re on basement 4. To gain a car´s width on the inside you need to be like 50/70% alongside.


When Kimi turned towards Perez, it wasn't to make the corner but to close the space (ie: it was still the braking zone of the straight), so moot point.

#132 ElDictatore

ElDictatore
  • Member

  • 846 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:27

Posted Image

Posted Image


To be honest it looks like 70:30 Perez. Kimi didn't leave much space but that's racing line and normally you back down in Perez' position.
So Perez is at fault, braked too late and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a penalty.
However the comments in here "hurr durr Perez is an idiot" are a bit overdramatic. Today, it had much worse incidents with Chilton & Maldonado.

#133 Taxi

Taxi
  • Member

  • 3,034 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:27

I wonder what would happen to Checo if he tried driving like this in NASCAR.

I wonder what would happen to NASCAR.




#134 Msaman

Msaman
  • Member

  • 89 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:28

As you say, Perez was nowhere parallel to Kimi. Classic closed-eyes dive-bombing.

100% agree with that
Just many of the young generation havent been following racing for long and are not able to distinguish a proper overtake and a dive bombing
Sadddd

#135 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,106 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:28

Sergio's comments from the McLaren race report:

“I’d had a great race – I’d been overtaking cars through the afternoon – but in my opinion Kimi didn’t leave me enough room when I tried to pass him as we exited the tunnel, and as a result I got squeezed into the wall on the entry to the Harbour Chicane.

“That was a real shame – I’d overtaken both Jenson and Fernando there, and Jenson had overtaken me there too, but I couldn’t have avoided the crash with Kimi. Of course, any passing manoeuvre at Monaco is risky, but, at the end of the day, you have to leave each other a little room.

“As a result of our contact, my car’s brake ducts were affected and my front brakes overheated – in fact I basically ran out of brakes.

“It’s particularly frustrating to retire from a grand prix in which you’ve driven hard and fast, especially when you’re so near to the finish. So, all in all, I’m extremely disappointed – for the team as much as for myself.”


#136 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:29

Perez hit Kimis rear wheel. How is that hitting the side?

Because the external face of Kimi's rear wheel hit the external face of Perez's front wheel. The wheel faces making contact is because Kimi was closing the door too hard on Perez giving him nowhere to go which meant Perez's left side car scraped the barrier damaging his suspension.

Kimi sandwiched him, I thought it was dangerous to do that at Monaco, Schumacher would have been proud of that move, moves like that should be saved for tracks with run-off areas.

You think I´m on a horse because you´re on basement 4. To gain a car´s width on the inside you need to be like 50/70% alongside.

Actually no percentage is defined, any part of your car can be along side.

Edited by ZooL, 26 May 2013 - 17:36.


#137 selespeed

selespeed
  • Member

  • 1,054 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:29

Sutil pass to Alonso, Button pass to Alonso, Sutil pass to Button, di Resta? pass to Massa, Kimi last laps,... Where is the massive risks? It's the difference between F1 drivers and playstation drivers.


alonso sleeping and being trapped by the mclaren
alonso trapped behind slowing perez
sutil and button touched...luckily no damage to anyone
di resta massa don't remember
kimis last laps...give me a brake...massive tire advantage vs slower cars...bottas even moving like being lapped

#138 artista

artista
  • RC Forum Host

  • 5,190 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:30

I wonder what would happen to Checo if he tried driving like this in NASCAR.

I suppose boys would have at it...

#139 FenderJaguar

FenderJaguar
  • Member

  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:30

Kimi did his share of stupid things when he was young. Sadly all the Kimi fans here started following F1 in 2011


no, he made very few mistakes really. and I started following F1 before you were born. Probably.

Advertisement

#140 holiday

holiday
  • Member

  • 3,470 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:31

perez decided to take the risk and on 2 occasions where drivers didn't block he made a move stick


He made the move stick only out of courtesy of two WDCs' racecraft and intelligence. Perez's move needed such a massive active support and goodwill from the other that you should award Alonso the Mother Theresa medal for giving a crutch to a driver with no visual judgment at all.

#141 Msaman

Msaman
  • Member

  • 89 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:32

To be honest it looks like 70:30 Perez. Kimi didn't leave much space but that's racing line and normally you back down in Perez' position.
So Perez is at fault, braked too late and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a penalty.
However the comments in here "hurr durr Perez is an idiot" are a bit overdramatic. Today, it had much worse incidents with Chilton & Maldonado.

Chilton is a rookie still .Please give him some time .As for Perez he is being here for quite long time now the same goes for RoGro as well.
Perez should have been penalized for forcing Alonso off the track in first place immo.
I cant say anything abt his move on Button though it was very well executed.

Edited by Msaman, 26 May 2013 - 17:33.


#142 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,119 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:32

When Kimi turned towards Perez, it wasn't to make the corner but to close the space (ie: it was still the braking zone of the straight), so moot point.


:lol: So you think the "straights" ettiquete applies. Now that´s imagination.

Anyway, even if someone is stupid enough to buy that line, and catalogue this as a block move ending a straight, and not an apex situation, Perez had nearly a car´s width of room on his left at the point of the first contact.

There´s no half clued interpretation where the guy ahead can be to blame in this incident.

#143 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,224 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:32

That move , divebombing can be done on most hairpins in any track, all day long. the point is if a drvier has any brains he knows it only ends in 2 ways, crash or the lead driver gives up his position, soon he will be losing many positions. I wonder why none of the top drivers tried it?

Charlie enacted a bad precedent with the Alonso move, which spurred Perez on to keep at it. Hopefully they can discuss this now, outside the cockpit, to make it so those aren't the only two options for a driver and to discourage moves like this.



#144 FenderJaguar

FenderJaguar
  • Member

  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:33

the problem was really that the judges made a bad decision when they let Perez pass Alonso. where was Alonso supposed to go? easy passing people when it isn't a pass it is more of a threat that you have to move or we crash. Perez is a baby and got exactly what he deserved. I think Kimi made the right decision. Glad he made it.

#145 TailG

TailG
  • Member

  • 926 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:34

Kimi did his share of stupid things when he was young. Sadly all the Kimi fans here started following F1 in 2011


No he didn't. And you obviously weren't watching F1 when Kimi started his career.

#146 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,799 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:35

Kimi did his share of stupid things when he was young. Sadly all the Kimi fans here started following F1 in 2011


Hi, I started watching 1992 that alone makes your comment false, bye :wave:

Edited by Vesuvius, 26 May 2013 - 17:35.


#147 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,119 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:35

Actually no percentage is defined, any part of your car can be along side.


That´s on the straights kid. It was defined after Rosberg´s moves that FW alongside rear wheel is deemed "alongside" down a straight. And once someone is deemed to be alongside, you can defend the inside until you leave a car´s width for him. And:

1) This wasn´t a straight, two guys were going for an apex.
2) Even if you´re clueless enough to think this is a "straight scenario", Perez had quite a lot of room on his left when they touched.

#148 majkel

majkel
  • Member

  • 249 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:36

Checo blaming Kimi is really BS. I'm losing all the respect I had left for that guy. He's aggresive, I'm fine with that, but he needs some humility.

#149 selespeed

selespeed
  • Member

  • 1,054 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:36

Charlie enacted a bad precedent with the Alonso move, which spurred Perez on to keep at it. Hopefully they can discuss this now, outside the cockpit, to make it so those aren't the only two options for a driver and to discourage moves like this.



yes...they should really discourage any overtaking moves in monaco...maybe a safety car for the whole race.

#150 ZZei

ZZei
  • Member

  • 418 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 26 May 2013 - 17:36

When there is somone driving like Perez behind one you can act like Alonso (more or less) and Button did and let him by and lose one position, or defend it like Kimi did with the chance of ending his race. If no one ever shuts the door Perez would never learn.

Raikkonen already did obviosly just few laps before. He obviously didnt realize perez would be stupid enough to try the same move again.