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Just when you thought it was a clear case - Grosjean vs. Ricciardo on Monaco


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Poll: Who's fault - Grosjean or Ricciardo? (146 member(s) have cast votes)

Who's to blame.

  1. Grosjean (122 votes [83.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 83.56%

  2. Racing incident (20 votes [13.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.70%

  3. Ricciardo (4 votes [2.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.74%

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#1 TT6

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:16

The first one I've seen that blames Ricciardo on Grosjean vs. Ricciardo case in Monaco is .... Romain!

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/107719

What do you think of it? I don't think they showed the incident on TV broadcast before Romain was already all over Daniel.

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#2 trogggy

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:19

The first one I've seen that blames Ricciardo on Grosjean vs. Ricciardo case in Monaco is .... Romain!

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/107719

What do you think of it? I don't think they showed the incident on TV broadcast before Romain was already all over Daniel.

I think this:

I was following him for 61 laps and he was really struggling with his rear tyres with a lot of graining and no more grip.

I was close in the tunnel and got caught out by the fact that he was braking early in the middle of the track.

is not Grosjean blaming DR.

#3 TT6

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:26

I think this:

is not Grosjean blaming DR.


Well spotted. I got caught by the headline "Grosjean says Daniel Ricciardo at fault".

#4 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:31

He didn't really full-on 'blame' Ricciardo, that's just Autosport's sensationalist headline.

What he did do was clumsily try and explain his error away, by suggesting it wasn't really all his fault because Ricciardo's tyres were shot.

Which frankly, is crap. If Grosjean's got a racing brain on those shoulders - and the jury's still out afaic - he should have anticipated Ricciardo needing to brake a bit earlier with worn tyres and a less accomplished car. In the same way Webber should have anticipated Heikki braking earlier at Valencia a few years ago.

Edited by NotSoSilentBob, 27 May 2013 - 12:38.


#5 Cavani

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:34

although ricciardo was very slow , unfortunately grosjean hit him from the back so he is at fault just like any incidents (schumacher singapore and spain 2012) and webber valencia 2010

#6 krapmeister

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:37

He didn't really full-on 'blame' Ricciardo, that's just Autosport's sensationalist headline.

What he did do was clumsily try and explain his error away, by suggesting it wasn't really all his fault because Ricciardo's tyres were shot.

Which frankly, is crap. If Grosjean's got a racing brain on those shoulders - at the jury's still out afaic - he should have anticipated Ricciardo needing to brake a bit earlier with worn tyres and a less accomplished car. In the same way Webber should have anticipated Heikki braking earlier at Valencia a few years ago.


And he should've realised that because he was close behind Dan would also move over to the middle of the track to take a defensive line into the chicane...

#7 Snic

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:52

Accident with De La Rosa in Brazil
"I was going to overtake him in a straight line and I don't think he saw me and pushed me into the barriers"


Being run out of road after a great pass my Maldonado in Australia 2012
"Maldonado broke much too late, and he hit my front wheel"

Monaco - Blames the car for the ridiculous crash in FP3 and then later blames Ricciardo during the race

As Martin Brundle so eloquently put it, "He worries me, this boy"

Edited by Snic, 27 May 2013 - 12:53.


#8 dau

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 13:08

And another brilliant Autosport.com headline.

#9 trogggy

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 13:32

Well spotted. I got caught by the headline "Grosjean says Daniel Ricciardo at fault".

Crap journalism. There's plenty of it around.

#10 Muppetmad

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 13:33

Well, it's been clearly shown here that Grosjean isn't really blaming Ricciardo at all, so that clears that up I guess. It's pretty hard to come to a conclusion without the drivers' comments, though, because there simply wasn't enough video evidence to make a decision during the race. The replays missed the crucial couple of seconds where the lead-up to the incident occurred - if it weren't for the drivers' comments, we wouldn't know what happened in that time. For all we'd have known, Ricciardo could have started weaving randomly. I do wonder why better camera angles weren't shown, since the stewards must have had access to better footage to make a decision (unless they relied solely upon the drivers' testimony - which would have been amusing!).

As Webber showed a couple of years ago, this stuff happens.

#11 Wolfie

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 14:07

When reading what Bouillier said it sounded as if he thought RG was already frustrated with Ricciardo and just couldn't keep his emotions under control.

"[We will] sit down with him and let's go through the weekend. It's always the same story, especially in Monaco. He had the pace, we could see it. It's even more frustrating because of that. Thursday's accident didn't help but it happens. The rest of the story went worse on Saturday morning. I think building up his frustration was Ricciardo, who didn't allow him to complete the Q2 like he should have done and [being] 13th on the grid just finishes the frustration."


http://www1.skysport...s/12473/8738183

EB also talks about how RG needs to manage his emotions better.

So did RG ram into Ricciardo because of frustration for him 'ruining' his weekend?


#12 metz

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 14:16

Wasn't this Boullier's excuse for the boy last year, before and after the suspension?
OK. Let's have ANOTHER sit down and talk with him.
As Hamilton said last year; "You can't fix stupid."

#13 Wolfie

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 14:25

Wasn't this Boullier's excuse for the boy last year, before and after the suspension?
OK. Let's have ANOTHER sit down and talk with him.
As Hamilton said last year; "You can't fix stupid."


It's difficult to tell what EB really thinks. He fought hard for RG's seat this season, hence he might also try to save his face?!?

But you are right, they have kept these 'talks' with RG many times and they probably think everytime that this time it will hit home.

It would work in RG's favor if he would start to take responsibility for his actions, otherwise he won't learn. As long as he denies his own fault he is innocent.

RG said that he will just press the reset-button before Canada :rolleyes:

#14 BlackCat

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 14:43

it's not exactly "racing incident" - it was "Pirelli incident". but if people consider Pirellis suitable for racing, i have to go with racing incident.

#15 bub

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 14:47

Lol so it looks like the headline is a blatant lie.

#16 William Hunt

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 15:09

I think it was just a case of one driver braking a bit earlier as in previous laps and another one braking a bit later. Grosjean is more at fault but imho a racing incident.

#17 olliek88

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 15:28

Nowhere have i read Grosjean apportioning blame on Danny Ric, he explained the reason that he ran into the RIC, he braked earlier than expected but that's it.

That is the sort of journalism i'd expect in The Sun not Autosport. Disappointing frankly.

#18 redreni

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 15:28

Disappointing headline from Autosport. Thought they were better than that. There's sensationalising and then there's writing a headline that just bears no relation to the story.

#19 dau

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 15:44

it's not exactly "racing incident" - it was "Pirelli incident". but if people consider Pirellis suitable for racing, i have to go with racing incident.

I'm pretty sure we had people misjudging other driver's braking points even when they were driving on Bridgestone, Michelin or Goodyear tyres. Why not keep the tyre "discussion" in its own thread?

Edited by dau, 27 May 2013 - 15:46.


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#20 Jon83

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 17:15

Absolutely rubbish, sensationalist headline. Grosjean isn't blaming DR at all.

#21 DILLIGAF

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:52

Ricciardo was heard over the team radio saying: "You can probably guess the driver."

:lol:

http://wwos.ninemsn....aspx?id=8665406

Edited by DILLIGAF, 28 May 2013 - 01:53.


#22 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:14

So did RG ram into Ricciardo because of frustration for him 'ruining' his weekend?

Good grief. No. It's bad enough that the headline is a ghastly misrepresentation of the facts.

#23 Wolfie

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:34

Good grief. No. It's bad enough that the headline is a ghastly misrepresentation of the facts.


The headline itself tells that it was not a clear case, misinterpreting facts or not.

The web is filled with statements from all parties and they make a nice compilation of an incident seen differently by both sides. EB should be more careful when talking, it's not the first time his talks are weird.

This is what Grosjean said:

"I was caught out by him braking early in the middle of the circuit and there was nowhere for me to go."

Does that sound like it was Ricciardo's fault and was Grosjean really just an innocent victim?




#24 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:54

Wasn't this Boullier's excuse for the boy last year, before and after the suspension?
OK. Let's have ANOTHER sit down and talk with him.
As Hamilton said last year; "You can't fix stupid."


This a good line by Lewis. We have three drivers currently falling in that category: Romain, Checo and Maldo.

One has good car, one has mid-pack vehicle and one has a dog on wheels. No one is safe.

#25 trogggy

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:20

The headline itself tells that it was not a clear case, misinterpreting facts or not.

The web is filled with statements from all parties and they make a nice compilation of an incident seen differently by both sides. EB should be more careful when talking, it's not the first time his talks are weird.

This is what Grosjean said:

"I was caught out by him braking early in the middle of the circuit and there was nowhere for me to go."

Does that sound like it was Ricciardo's fault and was Grosjean really just an innocent victim?

This is what Grosjean said:

"I was caught..."
Sounds like he thinks he's a fish.

If you pluck a sentence or phrase out of a discussion it's easy to misrepresent a position.
If autosport wanted a 'Grosjean blames Ricciardo' story they could at least pluck out a quote that vaguely looks like he does.

#26 oldracer1957

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 23:09

although ricciardo was very slow , unfortunately grosjean hit him from the back so he is at fault just like any incidents (schumacher singapore and spain 2012) and webber valencia 2010


Not so clear cut, I would say... Kobayashi hitting Hamilton from the back in Spa 2011... unfortunately I saw people on this board absolving Kobayashi of any blame, blaming Hamilton instead. :rolleyes:




#27 Jimisgod

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:26

Not so clear cut, I would say... Kobayashi hitting Hamilton from the back in Spa 2011... unfortunately I saw people on this board absolving Kobayashi of any blame, blaming Hamilton instead. :rolleyes:


:rolleyes: If you remember that accident at all, Kobayashi was way alongside, hence why he went spinning into the wall.

It was absolutely nothing like any of the other 3 accidents.

#28 Henrik B

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:32

Not so clear cut, I would say... Kobayashi hitting Hamilton from the back in Spa 2011... unfortunately I saw people on this board absolving Kobayashi of any blame, blaming Hamilton instead. :rolleyes:


Hamilton blamed Hamilton.

#29 EthanM

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:49

Not so clear cut, I would say... Kobayashi hitting Hamilton from the back in Spa 2011... unfortunately I saw people on this board absolving Kobayashi of any blame, blaming Hamilton instead. :rolleyes:


that's probably cause those people had enough brain to realize it was Hamilton's fault, as did Hamilton himself and pretty much everybody else. Kobayashi didn't "Hit Hamilton from the back" .. far from it, Hamilton swung across to a piece of track occupied by Kobayashi who was alongside him, if anything that accident was similar to the Chilton/Maldonado accident in Monaco, not the Grosjean/Ricciardo one.

#30 Nemo1965

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:45


Grosjean suffers from what I call 'Stuck Anticipation'. As a tenniscoach I tell my pupils: 'If you receive serve and expect a ball to your backhand or forehand... still keep the possibility open that it's going the other way.' Because that is what you see a lot: before the ball has bounced, many tennisplayers are already swinging for the ball they expected instead of the ball that is coming for them.

Everytime I see Grosjean having an accident he reminds of this. He goes to a corner, chooses a line... and then something happens in front or to the side of him he doesn't expect. The first half second he carries on... and then he shoots into a too late reaction. Like during his practice-crash. 'St. Devote. Right. Brake before the bump, slow in, fast out, let the car go gentle back to the right... Oh somebody is coming out of the pits. But I am on my line... should, should I... Boom.'

His description of the accident with Ricciardo is case in point. He reveals he knew that Ricciardo's tyres were shot. What does that mean? That someone is going to brake early, that he is having handling problems, that is he going to defend very drastically... Still Grosjean drives on with the picture he has in his head instead of the picture he sees.

#31 7MGTEsup

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 15:01

As Hamilton said last year; "You can't fix stupid."


There is an old saying "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

#32 pRy

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 15:24

As Martin Brundle so eloquently put it, "He worries me, this boy"


This worries me:



I'm still trying to make sense of it. He can't even argue he had no idea a car was leaving the pits because there is a huge monitor with yellow arrows hanging off the pit wall to warn drivers. And it's an crazy line, so crazy he spun because he couldn't change the cars direction quick enough to make the turn. What was he doing?

#33 oldracer1957

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 18:25

:rolleyes: If you remember that accident at all, Kobayashi was way alongside, hence why he went spinning into the wall.

It was absolutely nothing like any of the other 3 accidents.


Look at the slow motion again. At the time of impact, Kobayashis front right wheel hit Hamiltons rear left wheel. :rolleyes: you seem to have a confused definition of "way alongside" :drunk:

#34 Buttoneer

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 23:01

Please stick with discussing Grosjean vs. Ricciardo, thanks.

#35 Wolfie

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:31

Here is Ricciardo's view, from his blog: http://www.redbull.c...021243347742408

#36 AlexS

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:10

This worries me:



I'm still trying to make sense of it. He can't even argue he had no idea a car was leaving the pits because there is a huge monitor with yellow arrows hanging off the pit wall to warn drivers. And it's an crazy line, so crazy he spun because he couldn't change the cars direction quick enough to make the turn. What was he doing?



Yes, a rerun from Spa last year were new facts don't change anything in Grosjean behavior. At Spa he touches into Hamilton and continue like if nothing happened.

#37 DanardiF1

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:48

I just think it was a bit of both, in that Ricciardo braked earlier than his previous pattern despite having to know that Grosjean was close and about to enter the same braking zone a few fractions of a second later, and also Grosjean for not choosing a more conservative line of his own when being that close to a soon-to-be braking car ahead of him.

Neither were really attacking or defending each other, so it was a bit of a tit-for-tat in my eyes. Of course it always looks to be the car behind's fault when these incidents occur, but I really don't think Romain was entirely 'to blame' here, neither was Daniel...

Racing incident. End of. Not connected to Romain's other adventures over last weekend which were incidents of his own, which is par for the course for at least one driver during every Monaco weekend.

#38 Music Lover

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:46

I just think it was a bit of both, in that Ricciardo braked earlier than his previous pattern despite having to know that Grosjean was close

So what should Ric have done instead? Braked later and missed the turn?
I consider your view on this incident rather strange. The first car is perfectly entitled to brake as early he like to manage the turn. BOTH knew Ric's tires were gone. Ric adapted, Gro didn't - that is the difference! Hence the 10 place grid penalty in Toronto.


Racing incident. End of.

Rather strange that the stewards have another view is it not?

#39 metz

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:39

Hence the 10 place grid penalty in Toronto.

The Toronto Honda Indy is too much of a penalty ;)