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Official: Chevy Due/al in Detroit


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Poll: I enjoyed the Indy 500 because... (46 member(s) have cast votes)

I enjoyed the Indy 500 because...

  1. It was a good clean race (29 votes [63.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.04%

  2. That schlemihl Marco Andretti didn't win it (3 votes [6.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.52%

  3. I WANT QUANTIFIABLE OVERTAKES DAMN IT (5 votes [10.87%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.87%

  4. I phoned ahead and took a regulation-sized cooler (2 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

  5. I didn't, I hated every last minute (7 votes [15.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.22%

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#1 Risil

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 15:50

The Indy 500 finished less than 24 hours ago. Did you enjoy it? NO TIME TO FIND OUT BECAUSE IT'S TIME FOR

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Izod Indycar Series Rounds 6+7 of 19: Belle Eel Park

Track length: 2.36 miles
Race length: 70 laps
Lap record: Juan Montoya (Lola/Toyota), probably* -- 1:13.056
Previous winner: not James Hinchcliffe, that's for sure!

*There's a new layout, which is the same as the old new layout. The revival event used the old old layout, which should more properly be described as the new old layout. There may be a new new layout somewhere but we'd need a Punnett square to identify it.

Mo(notony)town
Indycar racing has a long history of making bold but extremely questionable decisions. The most famous one in recent years happened when Bruton Smith and Bobby Rahal got drunk and signed a deal to race military surplus F-15s at Bristol. It was cancelled after computer simulations held after qualifying projected a number of fatalities greater than the whole of Tennessee.

This one is a bit less extreme but still puzzling. They've decided to run full-length races on consecutive days on the most reliably boring track on the calendar. I think they're planning to dynamite the bridges out of Belle Isle during Saturday's race, ensuring a good turn-out for part two.

Like a struggling tyre supplier being accused by its customers of carrying out tyre testing, I don't know where to look.

Come on, it's not as bad as Mid-Ohio!
Well that's true. Belle Isle has this weird and often-remarked ability to be incredibly dull for 30 laps then some idiot stuffs it into the wall and all hell breaks loose on the restart(s). So in some ways it's the quintessential street circuit. Takuma Sato appears to be treading the other side of the fine line between stupid and clever this year, so we might need another volunteer (make that two volunteers) to be this weekend's Felipe Massa.

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Too obvious.

Schedule plz
Friday, 31 May
08.50-10.50: Grand-Am practice
11.15-12.25: Indycar practice
13.35-14.35: More Grand-Am practice
15.00-16.10: Indycar qualifying
16.30-17.05: Grand-Am qualifying

Saturday, 1 June
08.30-09.00: More Grand-Am practice
09.15-09.45: Indycar qualifying again
12.25-14.25: Some Grand-Am race, what kind of a wussy race only lasts two hours
15.30: Indycar race number one

Sunday, 2 June
09.30-10.00: Indycar race two warm-up (wha?)
10.00-15-30: The ineffable void
15.30: Indycar race 2

Fact
During the Second World War Detroit asked the international community (with a couple of notable exceptions) whether it would like to host the United Nations on beautiful Belle Eel. However they didn't have the idea of combining it with an Indycar double-header so the bid was unsuccessful.

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Looks more like a manatee to me

Plea
Does anyone understand how Indycar's points system works? Why did First Loser Carlos Munoz get fiftyfour-fiftyfifths (or 98%) of the points Tony Kanaan got for winning the World's Biggest Auto Race?

Anyway, go forth and comment. It'll all be over soon.

Edited by Risil, 27 May 2013 - 19:24.


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#2 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 16:04

The points system is supposed to be:

Position Points
1st 50
2nd 40
3rd 35
4th 32
5th 30
6th 28
7th 26
8th 24
9th 22
10th 20
11th 19
12th 18
13th 17
14th 16
15th 15
16th 14
17th 13
18th 12
19th 12
20th 12
21st 12
22nd 12
23rd 12
24th 12
25th 10
26th 10
27th 10
28th 10
29th 10
30th 10
31st 10
32nd 10
33rd 10
Most laps led 2
Pole position (but not at Indy) 1

However wikipedia has the following line: "For the Indianapolis 500, qualifying points are awarded for all 33 cars at the Indianapolis 500. The point scale slides based on the teams that qualify for the top-nine shootout, then descending by speed and position."

So hell if I know who should have how many points.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 27 May 2013 - 16:05.


#3 Victor_RO

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 16:04

Plea
Does anyone understand how Indycar's points system works? Why did First Loser Carlos Munoz get fiftyfour-fiftyfifths (or 98%) of the points Tony Kanaan got for winning the World's Biggest Auto Race?


Indy 500 qualifying points, Munoz qualified 2nd and TK 12th. Points for Indy quali go 15-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-4-4-4-...-4-3-3-...-3. So Munoz got 13 points in quali and TK only 4.

#4 Risil

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 16:12

That's... weird. But thanks to both of you!

Last year to preserve my sanity I tried to pay as little attention as possible to the points table until Fontana. Think I'll do it this year too.

Edited by Risil, 27 May 2013 - 16:13.


#5 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 16:16

So I'm guessing Friday qualifying for Saturday's race and Saturday qualifying for Sunday's?

Full points for each race? Or is there some sort of sliding scale depending on how many interviews you do and how much your pitcrew is over a healthy BMI?

I miss the old CART top 12 points system.

#6 HaydenFan

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 16:21

The points system is supposed to be:
However wikipedia has the following line: "For the Indianapolis 500, qualifying points are awarded for all 33 cars at the Indianapolis 500. The point scale slides based on the teams that qualify for the top-nine shootout, then descending by speed and position."

So hell if I know who should have how many points.


That's the old system from last year. Now from 18th to 25, they count down from 12 to 5. Then it's 5 from their to 33.

Points for qualifying at Indy are like described already, and Iowa qualifying points are from 1st to 12th, and go from 9 points and count down to 1 where they continue from position 9 to 12 where those drivers get only 1 point.

From 2013 IndyCar wiki page:
Points are awarded to drivers on the following basis:
Position 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33
Race Pts. 50 40 35 32 30 28 26 24 22 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Indy 15 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Iowa 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 1 1 1

One point is awarded to any driver who leads at least one lap during a race.
Extra points awarded for qualifying at Indianapolis and Iowa based on drivers performance.
Ties in points broken by number of wins, followed by number of 2nds, 3rds, etc., and then by number of pole positions, followed by number of times qualified 2nd, etc.


Edited by HaydenFan, 27 May 2013 - 16:21.


#7 greenman

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 16:32

They changed the track from last year. It's longer and apparently more.. racey? We'll see.

I'm a bit sceptical about the doubleheader thing though. If nothing else for the imbalance in the championship (too many street courses with three of them in the season).

#8 Deluxx

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 17:00

I actually kind of like this track. Not sure why. Even with all the shit that happened last year.

It's the race so nice they're running it twice

#9 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 17:04

Oh yes. They've gone back to the "improved" version of the circuit that CART switched to. I never saw enough CART races on either to determine if it actually was better. The longer straight between T2 and T3 should make for an overtaking opportunity and it cuts out the very slow right-left-right section.

Here's a map. http://theracingline.../BelleIsle.html



#10 Risil

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 17:04

Nice website that

#11 Deluxx

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 17:27

is that geocities

#12 Risil

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 17:34

It looks pretty mid-90s (and hasn't been updated since ~2005) but the level of coverage and detail on there is amazing.

Edited by Risil, 27 May 2013 - 17:43.


#13 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 17:36

This circuit is no longer operational.

#14 Muppetmad

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 17:38

Hmmm... not sure if I'll be watching the Sunday race, since I have an exam first thing on Monday. I'll have to see how I feel! Given that it's Detroit though, that does lead me to think it will be a long race due to yellows...

#15 rghojai

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 18:25

Brilliant stuff, Risil. Thanks!

#16 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 18:31

How awesome would it be, under the Ross Rule©, if they packed up the 500 spec cars and unloaded them at Detroit. Try taking that sweeper on the front straight flat with the wings peeled back.

#17 Risil

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 18:45

How awesome would it be, under the Ross RuleĀ©, if they packed up the 500 spec cars and unloaded them at Detroit. Try taking that sweeper on the front straight flat with the wings peeled back.


Should do the Saturday race with skinny wings and the Sunday race with the normal ones. Differentiate your product, or something.

Edited by Risil, 27 May 2013 - 18:46.


#18 Andrew Hope

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:00

Only one good thing ever came out of Detroit:

Posted Image

Well, two good things.

#19 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:03

Nice website that


Shame it shut down back in 2005. At least it's been saved so for older details it's still top notch.

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#20 ApexMouse

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:59

Only one good thing ever came out of Detroit:

Posted Image

Well, two good things.


I didn't know Detroit was associated with sofa manufacturing?

#21 Andrew Hope

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:04

I didn't know Detroit was associated with sofa manufacturing?


At one point there was a booming upholstery industry.


#22 prommer

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:36


Am I correct in thinking that Saturday will be the first standing start in IndyCar history? Or did they come to their senses about that?

(I'm sure hoping they didn't!)

Edited by prommer, 27 May 2013 - 20:41.


#23 HaydenFan

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:39

At one point there was a booming upholstery industry.


But they never were as big as the other side of the state though.

White Strips were great. By far one of the best groups from the city. And at least the hockey team looks decent in the playoffs.

Standing start was not supposed to occur here. Only Toronto and Houston. They didn't feel it would work on a no straight front stretch. But Monaco just did it, so I don't know.

Edited by HaydenFan, 27 May 2013 - 20:41.


#24 Risil

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:42

Am I correct in thinking that Saturday will be the first standing start in IndyCar history? Or did they come to their senses about that?

(I'm sure hoping they didn't!)


Autoweek says they're pencilled in to start in Toronto.

Personally I don't think what kind of start they do is an issue so long as every driver is informed beforehand.

#25 Andrew Hope

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:49

so long as every driver is informed beforehand.


IndyCar is the only series I follow where this is not actually a given. Guessing which kind of start you're supposed to do as you set off on the pace lap would REALLY spice things up.

Edited by Andrew Hope, 27 May 2013 - 20:50.


#26 prommer

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:54

Phew. I think it would be too much to add to this already busy weekend.

I don't want IndyCar trying to compete with GP2's Monaco start. They set the bar quite high. :drunk:

ps. As to your point about points, there was a pre-season radio interview where Beaux Barfield said something like, 'We don't have the kind of money needed to incentivize drivers, but what we do have is an infinite number of points to dole out.' So expect all sorts of little point bonuses to crop up now and then. I believe he was saying this in reference to rewarding the triple crown, after which Fuzzy's stepped in with actual money money.

#27 juicy sushi

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:12

Judging by the season so far, if any series can make Detroit entertaining, IndyCar 2013 will. I think Honda revenge will be on the cards.

#28 Red17

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:59

Standing start was not supposed to occur here. Only Toronto and Houston. They didn't feel it would work on a no straight front stretch. But Monaco just did it, so I don't know.

The brits have done it for decades at Silverstone. But I am probably the only person missing it.

#29 Deluxx

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:12

IndyCar is the only series I follow where this is not actually a given. Guessing which kind of start you're supposed to do as you set off on the pace lap would REALLY spice things up.


:rotfl:

Judging by the season so far, if any series can make Detroit entertaining, IndyCar 2013 will. I think Honda revenge will be on the cards.


Hmm, we'll see

#30 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:33

It'd be easy to do. As they come to the start/finish line having a light setup. If it's red form up in your grid slots. If it's green, get ready for the flag stand to unleash you.

#31 jonpollak

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:45

Judging by the season so far, if any series can make Detroit entertaining, IndyCar 2013 will. I think Honda revenge will be on the cards.

So true..
I didn't get where I am today without recognising the most entertaining racing this side of 1997...
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Jp



#32 Woody3says

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:49

Was the patchwork fix job from last season properly repaired, or should we anticipate teams resorting to 33" off-road tires?

#33 Deluxx

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:03

Pretty sure they repaved lol

#34 Victor_RO

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 05:29

Was the patchwork fix job from last season properly repaired, or should we anticipate teams resorting to 33" off-road tires?


Isn't the new-old track config that they're using this year going to bypass that section entirely?

#35 juicy sushi

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:51

So true..
I didn't get where I am today without recognising the most entertaining racing this side of 1997...
Posted Image
Jp

It's definitely on par with the Zanardi years, although I think we have a bit to go before the 1993-1995 high water mark. Still, something to be celebrated. That DW12; uglier than sin but I'll be damned if she isn't game for a hard dice.


#36 billm99uk

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:39

Anybody worked out what time the race is in BST yet as ESPN UK don't seem to be showing it (err... them?) live?

#37 HaydenFan

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 14:10

9:15 pm BST

http://tv.espn.co.uk...spl/tv-schedule

Have to find it, but it has the schedule of ESPN. Says highlights, but nearly 2 hours of coverage is more than simply highlights.

Edited by HaydenFan, 28 May 2013 - 14:10.


#38 Imperial

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 14:40

True story this: I'm from, live and work in England. A colleague of mine hails from Detroit.

For some reason or other last year I mentioned the 'race' (didn't bother mentioning Indycar, she won't have known what it is) that takes place on Belle Isle.

"Where's Belle Isle?"

The island.

"What island?"

The one in the river, you know?

"No".

Nothing like local knowledge.

Maybe she's more of a White Stripes fan than an islands fan.

#39 Deluxx

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 15:18

Idk. It use to be popular... It's a manmade island for rich people to live on, but it never caught on and they've been swapping owners ever since creation. Wouldn't doubt if people thought that it already sank

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#40 Risil

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 17:24

When I was at university I chatted with an exchange student from the University of Michigan and I wheeled out all my Detroit knowledge. (Did you know that Belle Isle is actually north of Canada? THANK YOU PAUL PAGE FOR MENTIONING IT IN EVERY BROADCAST.) This guy not only knew that Belle Isle was a place, but also that the roads had "some kind of Formula 1 grid on them".

#41 billm99uk

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 19:18

Is it like a proper island? Or is like the Isle of Dogs in London (which is just a bit of land in a loop in the River Thames, for those who don't know).

#42 Deluxx

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 20:58

It's like the islands in dubai. Man made but they're big enough to build houses and shit on

#43 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 21:01

It's kind of like Montreal F1

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#44 Deluxx

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 21:04

^ pretty much.

#45 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:12

Last year was a 60 lap race, this year we're doing 70 laps twice? I didn't know that. I thought the double headers were going to be like hour long races each or something. But now each is longer than the original? Ay caramba.

#46 Deluxx

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:35

Last years was pretty long -without- the repave breaks. They're prolly just using a longer race to sell huge ad chunks.

#47 HaydenFan

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:52

Last year was a 60 lap race, this year we're doing 70 laps twice? I didn't know that. I thought the double headers were going to be like hour long races each or something. But now each is longer than the original? Ay caramba.


Two full races. I think the fiasco at Texas a few years back turned I think the series from shorter races.

Plus, at least to me, this is the best way to do a double header weekend. On par with the junior formula (outside GP2/GP3), and what other series that run two+ races a weekend do (well outside V8 Supercars who do their own awkward thing).

#48 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 15:44

There must have been some unintended consequences from the Bia marriage proposal, Conway is in her car this weekend. Dunno what the sponsor package will be.

#49 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 15:46

At least there is one legitimate passing zone, rather than zero. But the race should be shorter.

CC

#50 HaydenFan

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 16:44

There must have been some unintended consequences from the Bia marriage proposal, Conway is in her car this weekend. Dunno what the sponsor package will be.


Come on, you know it's another Sonny's BBQ car.