56 replies to this topic

[Owen]

"Usually you expect two silver arrows in front of you and there were two buses today going for a cruise - "
Sebastian Vettel

Sour grapes, the truth, or a mix of both??


http://www.gmanetwor...th-a-silver-bus

[kosmos]

Hamilton does not share Vettel Mercedes Silver Arrow Formula 1 busses

"He has had the fastest car for the last four years, so it's easy for him to say that. He's got it easy," said the Briton.

"We are making our way up, we are learning, growing, improving with a car that has great potential, so I don't agree with him."

"I just have to focus on myself and try and get my act together," he said.

[Zoetrope]

Both. I mean Red Bull did the same last year with Mark cruising in first with a train behind him. But I think it supposed to be a joke rather than rude remark. I guess nothing to see here, move along.

[Slackbladder]

Whilst its somewhat true, it's also true that at no point in time did vettel hassle and be all over the back of either Lewis or rosberg. Which was somewhat sensible, as the tyres wouldn't have coped, as we saw with Lewis damaging his tyres behind webber.

So sure they were buses, but then so was everyone else.

[rasul]

It was clearly meant as a joke, and Lewis shouldn't have responded so defensively to something so trivial. Let's close this thread before Vettel and Hamilton's fans start throwing the words like "sour grapes" at each other.

[fatd]

It was a joke. IIRC Vettel said it in the post-race PC, right with Rosberg beside him. He also said after the "bus" remark, that he knew it was a strategy, and gave them credits for that. Rosberg didn't look offended either.

[swerved]

"Usually you expect two silver arrows in front of you and there were two buses today going for a cruise - "
Sebastian Vettel

Sour grapes, the truth, or a mix of both??


http://www.gmanetwor...th-a-silver-bus

None of those, an attempt at a joke, which the podium winners press conference perfectly conveyed, and which words alone cannot.

[Burtros]

The two quotes say more about Hamiltons feelings towards Vettel than they do about Vettels feelings on the race.

[fatd]

It was clearly meant as a joke, and Lewis shouldn't have responded so defensively to something so trivial.

Wouldn't blame Lewis for that.. He was not at the post-race PC, so I think there's a good chance the first time he's heard about this is from the journalist who asked him about it. We all know how journalist can phrase their question in such a way to get an answer exactly as they hoped...

[Slackbladder]

I'm not sure it was the most accurate choice of words from vettel. No car was driving flat out, so they were pretty much all buses. Webber was a bus to Lewis just as much as rosberg was to vettel.

No car was showing true pace, so it's a little unfair to single out the mercs as being the only ones. There was a massive train behind alonso for example. As he dropped a little back for presumeably tyre management

[Buttoneer]

It's true, isn't it? Vettel demonstrated how much faster he might have been if he'd been in clear air out front. But he was in second place and knows to play the long game at Monaco - aggressive driving is as likely to see you lose everything as it is to get you seven additional points.

It was a good mature drive from Vettel and who can begrudge him his 'satisfaction' fastest lap?

[EthanM]

No car was showing true pace, so it's a little unfair to single out the mercs as being the only ones.

Um Vettel was racing the Mercs, not the Force Indias. He will talk about the Mercs.


Besides, pace is set by the leader not the person in 12th place. Everybody adapts to the pace the leader sets or (in Monaco) they try a hail Mary pass.

But anyways, it was a joke, everybody in the real world got it was a joke.

[EvanRainer]

Are you freaking kidding me? How is this even a thing?

All Vettel was talking about was how he was surprised at the slow pace the Mercs chose at the start of the race. But he said himself that it was simply their chosen strategy.

Geez, talk about trying to make something out of nothing.

[muramasa]

Mercedes Bus










RedBull Bus - "Satisfaction" !

[fed up]

The two quotes say more about Hamiltons feelings towards Vettel than they do about Vettels feelings on the race.

This...

[Raziel]

Mercedes Bus










RedBull Bus - "Satisfaction" !

brrrrrrr claustrophobic room

[sosidge]

Whilst its somewhat true, it's also true that at no point in time did vettel hassle and be all over the back of either Lewis or rosberg. Which was somewhat sensible, as the tyres wouldn't have coped, as we saw with Lewis damaging his tyres behind webber.

So sure they were buses, but then so was everyone else.

He had a pretty good go at Lewis in the first couple of laps but as soon as it became clear that Rosberg was pacing the pack for a one-stopper Vettel just dropped back into clean air and waited for circumstances to give him an opportunity to get ahead. Which they did.

[Reinmuster]

perhaps when Silver Bus win Valencia and Singapore then it shouldn't be viewed as a joke?

Edited by Reinmuster, 28 May 2013 - 10:51.

[SophieB]

How much on average slower WAS this year's race compared to last year's anyway? It did look very slow, even by Monaco's standards but I thought exactly the same thing last year, watching everyone tiptoe around after Webber.

Either way, didn't see any big deal in Vettel's remarks personally.

[PretentiousBread]

How much on average slower WAS this year's race compared to last year's anyway? It did look very slow, even by Monaco's standards but I thought exactly the same thing last year, watching everyone tiptoe around after Webber.

Either way, didn't see any big deal in Vettel's remarks personally.

Probably about the same, just that a bigger majority back then were still duped into believing it was some sort of amazing sporting contest, and there was less of a discussion about the nature of the tyres and what it meant for the essence of the racing.

[mnmracer]

Probably about the same, just that a bigger majority back then were still duped into believing it was some sort of amazing sporting contest, and there was less of a discussion about the nature of the tyres and what it meant for the essence of the racing.

Taking out the safety car laps, the average lap time of Mark Webber in 2012 was 1:20.823, which is 108.7% of the pole time.
Taking out the safety car laps, the average lap time of Nico Rosberg in 2013 was 1:21.702, which is 110.6% of the pole time.

Take 108.7% of this year's pole time as an expectable pole-to-race ratio, and you'd expect an average lap time of 1:20.274, so they lost about 1.5s per lap in the race this year.

[majkel]

"Usually you expect two silver arrows in front of you and there were two buses today going for a cruise - "
Sebastian Vettel

Sour grapes, the truth, or a mix of both??


http://www.gmanetwor...th-a-silver-bus

I'm sorry, but this is pathetic, total sour grapes.

HE decided to stay 4 seconds behind. Lewis showed that it was possible to at least TRY to attack. He didn't do anything and IMO it was Vettel train, not Rosberg train.

Edited by majkel, 28 May 2013 - 12:02.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

The two quotes say more about Hamiltons feelings towards Vettel than they do about Vettels feelings on the race.

To be honest, I don't understand why he got so defensive about it, Rosberg didn't come out with a statement like this yet he should be the one more offended as he won the race but you know...

[sopa]

Mercedes Bus




RedBull Bus - "Satisfaction" !

LOL, I think I'd run away from the Red Bull satisfaction bus.

[Sakae]

Hamilton does not share Vettel Mercedes Silver Arrow Formula 1 busses

Maybe Hamilton could leave Vettel alone for once, and focus on his driving instead; it's not been very good lately.

[PretentiousBread]

Taking out the safety car laps, the average lap time of Mark Webber in 2012 was 1:20.823, which is 108.7% of the pole time.
Taking out the safety car laps, the average lap time of Nico Rosberg in 2013 was 1:21.702, which is 110.6% of the pole time.

Take 108.7% of this year's pole time as an expectable pole-to-race ratio, and you'd expect an average lap time of 1:20.274, so they lost about 1.5s per lap in the race this year.

Interesting, so that's roughly the same when you factor in that Mercedes had to be especially careful with their tyres, even by today's standards. Shows that it fundamentally was the same picture for everyone as last year - both average race lap times were still a couple of seconds off of the estimated lap time of pole position + a maximum of 4s fuel effect for 78 laps worth.

[Oho]

I really don't understand Hamilton, for my taste Vettel's comment was more on the state of the sport than at Mercedes as a competitor.

[PretentiousBread]

I really don't understand Hamilton, for my taste Vettel's comment was more on the state of the sport than at Mercedes as a competitor.

This.

And speaking as a Hamilton fan, I wish the guy would have the stones to come out and tell it like it is in the way that Webber and Vettel are doing, especially when you consider that he's so obviously not enjoying it at the moment. I reckon though he's too proud and doesn't want to be seen to be 'making excuses', in the way that everyone wrongfully accused Schumacher of doing after Bahrain in 2012.

[Sakae]

I'm sorry, but this is pathetic, total sour grapes.

HE decided to stay 4 seconds behind. Lewis showed that it was possible to at least TRY to attack. He didn't do anything and IMO it was Vettel train, not Rosberg train.

Problem is, that you do not know how fast Vettel would go, had he held P1. In P2 he was restricted by circumstances, and RBR didn't had enough differential speed that was required to take Rosberg on. Sebastian tried to close on Hamilton early in the race only to observe, that Merc immediately increased speed to fend him off. He was doomed in P2 by the speed dictated from the front.

[schubacca]

"Usually you expect two silver arrows in front of you and there were two buses today going for a cruise - "
Sebastian Vettel

Sour grapes, the truth, or a mix of both??


http://www.gmanetwor...th-a-silver-bus

It is the truth, but in typical F1 fashion, not the whole truth.

In the Pirelli era, all winners are going for a cruise....

At Monaco, we had a slower bus winning.....

[mattferg]

perhaps if Silver Bus win Valencia and Singapore then it shouldn't be viewed as a joke?

Fixed this for you, don't get carried away on tracks Vettel usually wins, considering we still don't know if Merc has fixed their tyre problems, and if they conveniently have now... well that's a whole nother problem for them.

[plumtree]

From Vettel's post qualifying/race interview, it was clear that Vettel / Red Bull expected a two-stop race. Probably not for Lotus or Ferrari but for those four in the first two rows.

Post Qualifying "So, not entirely happy with the last lap but quite happy that there isn’t a Ferrari or a Lotus ahead. Tomorrow I think these guys will have to stop at least as much as us - yeah therefore I think sitting third is still a good result and should be a good opportunity tomorrow to win the race."

Post Race (Rosberg sitting next to him!) "Yeah, I think overall I’m very happy and pleased with the result. We know that it’s very difficult to overtake here. I think first of all congratulations to Nico, he did a very good job, a very controlled race. ... And after that(the start) I was a bit surprised by the slow pace in the opening laps. Usually you expect two silver arrows in front of you and there were two buses today going for a cruise - at least in the first couple of laps. But obviously the strategy was clear and they did a very good job."

As it's virtually impossible to overtake and with the leaders going slow there wouldn't be any gap for a clean air run, he had no choice but to copy their strategy. So to me it was a figure of speech that shows how surprised he was by their choice. I was curious how the race would have panned out, had a Red Bull driver gotten the pole and gone for two stop strategy. There was a big chance that with the multiple SC deployment it may not have worked the way they hoped for though.

Taking out the safety car laps, the average lap time of Mark Webber in 2012 was 1:20.823, which is 108.7% of the pole time.
Taking out the safety car laps, the average lap time of Nico Rosberg in 2013 was 1:21.702, which is 110.6% of the pole time.

Take 108.7% of this year's pole time as an expectable pole-to-race ratio, and you'd expect an average lap time of 1:20.274, so they lost about 1.5s per lap in the race this year.

+ In 2012 the front runners used two sets of tyres, this year three sets (one free pit-stop)

[Ferrari2183]

I mentioned this in another thread. That Mercedes drove to a one stop ruined the GP for me...

I don't begrudge them for it because it was a smart strategy and it would have only worked around a place like Monaco.

[Diablobb81]

. Lewis showed that it was possible to at least TRY to attack. He didn't do anything and IMO it was Vettel train, not Rosberg train.

And promptly grained his tires.

[MikeV1987]

I really don't understand Hamilton, for my taste Vettel's comment was more on the state of the sport than at Mercedes as a competitor.

Beat me to it.

[karne]

While I generally agree with him that the Merc is an absolute dog slow car in races this year, maybe someone should quietly point out that most of the race was actually the Vettel train, not the Rosberg train...

[Grundle]

I would prefer lots more comments like this. It would mean he's not winning.

[Mr.Wayne]

"He has had the fastest car for the last four years, so it's easy for him to say that. He's got it easy," said the Briton.

Except for last year, when Lewis clearly had the fastest car... yet, who was not fighting for the championship in the final race?

But back to the point, what Mercedes did at Monaco was to show the travesti that F1 is because of the ultra low-life Pirelli tires. That wasn't a race, but a progression. Kuddos to Mercedes for understanding it, and exploiting it on their favor, though.

That said, wondering if they would have used a slightly different strategy (tortoise-hare for instance) have they not had their "we are not cheating test" before the race...

[Jimisgod]

If they were so slow, why didn't he pass them then? Sutil and Perez were passing.

Sour grapes.

Either they were slow and he didn't have the talent to pass, or he is whining.

[CoinOperated]

If he really was that much faster, he should have at least made 1 attempt to pass Rosberg, but he didn't.

Other than that it's a funny metaphor.

[plumtree]

"Usually you expect two silver arrows in front of you and there were two buses today going for a cruise - at least in the first couple of laps."

He was mostly referring to the opening laps and he definitely tried to overtake Hamilton for a first few laps. Once he had run a few laps behind the two Mercs to their pace, two stop strategy wasn't a viable choice any more. Other than the fact that overtaking here isn't easy, whenever he tried to get closer Rosberg responded accordingly. Moreover if Rocky didn't lie to Vettel, Rosberg's tyres were in better shape too. He was in clean air all day long after all and it appears that Mercedes were better at tyre management.

The comment wasn't an excuse for him not winning and he didn't accuse Mercs of going slow, either.

[EvanRainer]

This whole thread is basically flame bait as the OP took a partial quote out of context and generally sentionalised in a blatant effort to make it seem Vettel was complaining blah blah.

The only thing this thread achieved was show how many people didn't actually watch the press conference. (not that you can blame anyone for not watching that tripe)

[Owen]

This whole thread is basically flame bait as the OP took a partial quote out of context and generally sentionalised in a blatant effort to make it seem Vettel was complaining blah blah.

The only thing this thread achieved was show how many people didn't actually watch the press conference. (not that you can blame anyone for not watching that tripe)

so you don't think Vettel had a point he was trying to make?

[ThomFi]

Except for last year, when Lewis clearly had the fastest car... yet, who was not fighting for the championship in the final race?

But back to the point, what Mercedes did at Monaco was to show the travesti that F1 is because of the ultra low-life Pirelli tires. That wasn't a race, but a progression. Kuddos to Mercedes for understanding it, and exploiting it on their favor, though.

That said, wondering if they would have used a slightly different strategy (tortoise-hare for instance) have they not had their "we are not cheating test" before the race...

After the Brazilian GP last year, even Lewis himself admitted in front of a TV camera, that they (McLaren) had the fastest car in 2012.

[Kelateboy]

perhaps when Silver Bus win Valencia and Singapore then it shouldn't be viewed as a joke?

I am willing to bet my house that the Silver Bus will not win Valencia this year.

[EvanRainer]

so you don't think Vettel had a point he was trying to make?

Maybe. But I didn't really get that watching the conference. He was clearly talking about the first laps. Plumtree provided the full quote "Usually you expect two silver arrows in front of you and there were two buses today going for a cruise - at least in the first couple of laps."

He was basically surprised because they were expecting the Mercs to go for a two stopper and they are going for a two stopper themselves.

Now whether indirectly this again makes the tyre situation look bad...maybe. But then again this is Monaco. It just is what it is, the leader dectates the pace and Merc's strategy choice was a smart one.

[syolase]

We really need a thread for every sentence a driver said?

Hint: IT WAS A JOKE

[fabr68]

I guess saying that you are racing against a bus is not as bad as saying you are racing against Newey.

[Jon83]

Vettel wasn't anywhere near Rosberg all weekend and in fairness, I don't think he was being critical of Mercedes in the way that those who used to talk about the 'Trulli train' were.

[kenkip]

"Usually you expect two silver arrows in front of you and there were two buses today going for a cruise - at least in the first couple of laps."

He was mostly referring to the opening laps and he definitely tried to overtake Hamilton for a first few laps. Once he had run a few laps behind the two Mercs to their pace, two stop strategy wasn't a viable choice any more. Other than the fact that overtaking here isn't easy, whenever he tried to get closer Rosberg responded accordingly. Moreover if Rocky didn't lie to Vettel, Rosberg's tyres were in better shape too. He was in clean air all day long after all and it appears that Mercedes were better at tyre management.

The comment wasn't an excuse for him not winning and he didn't accuse Mercs of going slow, either.

+1
I thought it was preety obvious the strategy employed by Merc in that race was pacing the field to a speed that would enable them to one stop the race,which I thought it was briliant,and yea,Rocky kept telling seb 'your tyres are marginal' meaning even though he had a go at Nico,he would eat his tyres too much and be forced another stop,so he let Nico have it,especialy after he had secured P2.
Then Mr.Hamilton comes up with this comments!I mean,what the hell does having the fastest car have anything to do with Monaco 2013?Surely the bus thing was a joke Seb said infront of Nico and he never seemed offended,so why is Lewis suddenly defensive?
Lewis to me seems insecure about his talent which is a shame because he has loads of it.