15 replies to this topic

[Alan Baker]

I was quite looking forward to this book, but my god it's hard work. The translation seems to be from Italian into gibberish. Such as "I was mainly occupied with calculations for the new F1 V6 1500cc in both the 65deg cylinder bank and the subsequent 120deg versions, which were for the 156s that won the 1961 world championships. But I made my mark, because I concluded that the 65deg engine was as equilibrated as the 120deg, even if in a different way: so the initial doubts were overcome and the cars could be built." Er..what? Or even more unfathomable on page 79 "But we did notice that the advantage of the monocoque was not determinant. A comparison was quickly made, given that the V6 was installed first in the Aero and then in the monocoque which, among other things, was slightly heavier at engine parity. Who knows what results we expected, but we certainly noticed that the previous 156 Aero in which Surtees won the GP of Germany at the Nurburgring ahead of Clark's Lotus and for the whole 1963 season was the British car's and was no way inferior to a valid monocoque." (I had to check this to ensure I transcribed it correctly) This is part of a long section on true monocoque versus Ferrari's hybrid "aero" construction during which it is stated that "a monocoque chassis cost up to 50 times more!" Wow, those aeros must have been cheap. More rubbish on page 83 when Forghieri states "we had to do everything in-house while the British teams commisioned their chassis from aeronautical companies, which was unthinkable in Italy at the time" And there was I thinking that the tinsmiths at Cheshunt and Bourne built them! There's numerous errors of fact like Moss crashing at Goodwood in a Lotus 24, Guichet and Vaccarella winning Le Mans in '64 in a 330P and Ferrari GTO's coming up against "the fearsome 7-litre Ford Cobra". If the guy's memory is that deficient you have to wonder about some of the other stuff, like Ferrari himself wanting Surtees out of the team in '66 and instructing Dragoni to engineer situations leading to that end. Then there's Le Mans 1967, which Forghieri seems to think Ferrari was cheated out of by the ACO "losing " laps from the second place P4. This is lucicrous as the P4 was 20mph slower than the Ford Mk.IV on the Mulsanne straight and was losing about 3.5 seconds a lap there alone. Multiply that by 388 laps and see what you get.
Overall, it seems that the reasons for Ferrari's failures are many and varied but do not include anything attributable to Forghieri.

[arttidesco]

Who was it translated by, Google ?

Edited by arttidesco, 06 June 2013 - 06:55.

[Emery0323]

There's numerous errors of fact like Moss crashing at Goodwood in a Lotus 24, Guichet and Vaccarella winning Le Mans in '64 in a 330P and Ferrari GTO's coming up against "the fearsome 7-litre Ford Cobra". If the guy's memory is that deficient you have to wonder about some of the other stuff, like Ferrari himself wanting Surtees out of the team in '66 and instructing Dragoni to engineer situations leading to that end. Then there's Le Mans 1967, which Forghieri seems to think Ferrari was cheated out of by the ACO "losing " laps from the second place P4. This is ludicrous as the P4 was 20mph slower than the Ford Mk.IV on the Mulsanne straight and was losing about 3.5 seconds a lap there alone. Multiply that by 388 laps and see what you get.

3.5 sec/lap *388laps is ~6laps at the Gurney/Foyt car's pace, so the second-place Ferrari actually did slightly better, only 4 laps down.

Translation problems aside, your review reminds me of some other auto-racing memoirs I've read, which seem to be of the "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" school of memoir-writing.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Did Ferrari want to ditch Surtees as a result of his massive crash at Mosport in the autumn of '65? Considering that Big John had a Lola T70 land on top of him, it's a wonder he was able to do anything in '66.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Too bad. I've been looking forward to this book as one that might shed some light on the inner workings of Ferrari during that fascinating period. A lot of money and a lot of waiting, apparently to be disappointed.

And aside from that, what seems to be the problem with getting this book into the US pipeline? Amazon has delayed delivery of my copy yet again.

Jack

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 12 June 2013 - 17:07.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Now Amazon says July 1 for US availability.

Edit: They now tell me July 9-12 delivery.

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 17 June 2013 - 14:01.

[retriever]

Who was it translated by, Google ?

In comparison with Babylon software Google is fine by me. I offered to translate the Book Transorient II for a German publisher with whom I work with. I bought Babylon for around £150 only to find it basically useless. In fact I soon gave up on it and used Google's on-line translation service instead. It served me fine.

[Jack-the-Lad]

The price of Forghieri on Ferrari certainly seems high enough to have justified a proper translation.

[arttidesco]

Found this through an Italian forum.

 

 

 

Shame it can’t be fully understood by most of TNF, perhaps Richard Hinton could invite him at the film show one of these times? (dreaming costs nothing )

 

 

Dang ! Wish I'd kept up my Italian lessons now  

[retriever]

With respect – your profile says you are a publisher – this is exactly the problem: indiscriminate use of translation software without complete revision and editing by someone who actually knows not just the language, but the nuances of the technical jargon and the context where the language is used.

With my writing – technical papers etc – I use almost daily google to translate paragraphs or key sentences from bibliographic references, from languages that I speak and read anyway, to be sure I am getting things right. German, for example, with its verbs at the end of the sentence is virtually impossible to translate automatically, google at least never gets it right. The same applies with varying degrees with all languages, as the grammar sentence constructions are actually all different.

What I meant in my previous post was to hire a proper, “human” (an handsome female of the species would be nice, thanks) translator who sits there, reads the book first, then opens it on the desk and start to tap on her computer, translating sentence after sentence, before sending it to revision by one or more editors. Ah yes, the costs… but aren’t niche books – or university/professional ones – bloody expensive anyway? And where is the point to produce expensive but illegible books?

Reggazoni,

 

I can assure you that I did not use the Google translation verbatum. I should have clarified my original entry in stating this. I knew the content and direction of the stories in the German title I had to translate and wrote from that basis - plus my own knowledge and understanding of he German language. the Google translator only provided me with a sort of framework.

 

Regards

 

Retriever

[Paul Parker]

The same issues apply to the English language version of CASTELLOTTI A Stolen Heart by CESARE DE AGOSTINI and perhaps the problem is that Italian, which I do not speak, does not translate appropriately into English.

[Charlieman]

I missed Alan Baker's fine review (post #1) when deciding whether to purchase this book. It might have affected my choice had I read it first.

 

It takes a while to get used to the unusual translation and terminology. Many online reviews of the book skip over this aspect. I think some of the flowery prose may originate from Foghieri because I have read similar words in other interviews.

 

Some reviewers suggest that the books contains little about Forgieri's character or background outside motorsport. I think that much is said between the lines, however, and if he seeks discretion about his private life that is fine by me. Forghieri's unhappiness about being squeezed out of the racing department is evident and he does not spare faint praise for certain people. His relationship with Enzo Ferrari is described in very political language, leaving the impression that Enzo's influence remained at the time of writing.

 

Forghieri had a "grass is greener over there" perspective on UK F1 teams, mirroring the British view that Ferrari had better technical resources. Perhaps it's a case of everyone seeing what they want to see... It's a shame that Forghieri's comments about prioritisation of sports car racing and customer cars in the 1960s over F1 early season development are spread across the book.

 

Overall it's a book worth reading but take your time to work through the translation. The photos are splendid but unfortunately unattributed -- lots from personal collections. New copies are available readily for less than £50 from a variety of sellers.

[nexfast]

I read the book when it was published but in its italian original version. Indeed, it seems from the snippets given above that it was translated word by word which of course gives room for strange sentences. There are factual errors for sure and of course the book intends to provide his personal views on a lot of what happened in Maranello during his long tenure, therefore hardly impartial. However, I thought it was very interesting in giving some backstage information on Ferrari's working methods. And as Charlieman says there is a lot to be read between the lines. I would not dismiss his memories of the internal political strife just because he got a few details wrong on the models someone was driving more than 60 years ago (and which could have been corrected if the editor had bothered). On the other hand, it is useful to have an italian source discussing Surtees dismissal instead of just the usual british quoted material.

[Arjan de Roos]

One great interview with subtitles I linked below (I know this is not the YT thread). Also on the road cars he worked on yet also some personal stories. Great work by Davide Cironi.

 

 

 

About the book: I bought the Italian version as you always need to read in original language even with the best of translators. So learn Italian! Grazie!    

[Doug Nye]

Forghieri was on fine form when I interviewed him in 2019 but it was very evident how this frenetic character earned his nicknamed while with Ferrari - 'Furia', fury.  Essentially he was always impatient either for things to happen or to make them happen. Delay or slowness - even in basic perception, understanding, never mind responding to an instruction, getting a job done - could trigger an impatient (and deafening) eruption.  

 

The unfortunate travelling companion of such impatience - a butterfly leap forward to the next topic, disregard for the last one as having already become 'only the past' - never sits well with producing a worthwhile book that enthusiast readers would quite reasonably expect to cover that past.  

 

Such personalities get things done.  Together with the landmark successes they also leave debris in their wake.  

 

I would be quite confident that Mauro was not temperamentally suited to cross-checking and reviewing and analysing his own biographical work nor to prepare it adequately for publication.  He would have expected others to do that - and would have dealt impatiently with detail questioning, tiresome verification, the thirst for better detail...

 

It has always been thinking of tomorrow that made these chaps any good.  

 

Looking back is for them just a waste of daylight.

 

DCN

[Arjan de Roos]

Some more: