55 replies to this topic

[eronrules]

http://grandprix247....urn-as-of-2014/

Formula One in-season testing is returning for the 2014 season, according to La Gazzetta dello Sport.

However, Auto Motor und Sport reported recently that a proposal by Ferrari to trade wind tunnel hours, straightline running and promotional days for actual circuit testing was voted down.

But Red Bull team boss Christian Horner is said to have told La Gazzetta, the authoritative sports daily, that an agreement to bring back testing was actually agreed in Monaco.

A report on the Italiaracing website said that the agreement is for four two-day tests, to take place during the 2014 world championship season on European circuits.

“This will make Pirelli happy,” read the report, “because they will have the chance to work on the tyres in the best way.”

“And also the motor engineers [will be happy], as they will be able to develop the new turbo V6s,” it added.

Nonetheless, AM&S insists that some teams – and not just the smallest ones – are opposed to the idea of extensive in-season testing.

“With 19 or 20 races a year,” an unnamed voice in the paddock is quoted, “and 12 days of testing before the season, an extra 9 days of testing would require a [seperate] test team.

“Such a team costs € 5 to 10 million extra, no matter how much is saved elsewhere,”

Edited by eronrules, 06 June 2013 - 10:35.

[akshay380]

Does that also mean Pirelli secured contract for 2014?

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

Does that also mean Pirelli secured contract for 2014?

I think it's more Horner saying Pirelli as they're the current supplier, nobody else has been announced, and to turn round and say "next years tyre supplier" rather than Pirelli would suggest that Pirelli aren't going to be around next year. Just my gut feeling.

[noikeee]

I'm sure the small teams are not happy but this is only sensible with brand new engines, and all the problems Pirelli have in making such a sensitive tyre. Nevermind the spirit of competition, to allow people to actually develop their cars; and the issue of needing to give KMs to drivers, particularly the inexperienced ones.

It's not a giant amount of testing neither, not like what we were watching in the early 2000s with Ferrari testing all the time. Fair compromise between cost and the benefits of testing, hope it does really go ahead.

[Sakae]

1. Every team should be able to test whatever, whenever, without any restrictions. If you live on your self-imposed budget, that's fine. You deal with it, but don't drag whole wide world into it.
2. Scrap parc ferme, and start restrictions (tire usage).
3. Scrap mandated pit stops or choice of tires, and instead, live and die by your own strategy. That could be interesting to watch.
4. Send all RE(s) on a life long gardening leave.

I love it.

[Murdoch]

Would love it if one of the test sessions was at Silverstone, but I fear it will be one of these:- Cataluyna, Paul Rickard, Bahrain and one other (Jerez, Valancia or Catalunya (again))

If it did return to Silverstone I doubt it would be like it used to where you could turn up, no traffic, no entry fee (or was it a tenner?) and roam around without seeing hardly anyone in the stands?

Me thinks that it will attract 1000's now.

[Clatter]

I'm assuming they will be running the tests at the end of a GP weekend, so no extra transporting of kit other than new parts. That's what I've been suggesting in previous discussions. Hope they will be allowed to use both cars and that Silverstone will be one of the venues used.

[sharo]

1. Every team should be able to test whatever, whenever, without any restrictions. If you live on your self-imposed budget, that's fine. You deal with it, but don't drag whole wide world into it.
2. Scrap parc ferme, and start restrictions (tire usage).
3. Scrap mandated pit stops or choice of tires, and instead, live and die by your own strategy. That could be interesting to watch.
4. Send all RE(s) on a life long gardening leave.

I love it.

Me too

Edited by sharo, 06 June 2013 - 10:53.

[Clatter]

Would love it if one of the test sessions was at Silverstone, but I fear it will be one of these:- Cataluyna, Paul Rickard, Bahrain and one other (Jerez, Valancia or Catalunya (again))

If it did return to Silverstone I doubt it would be like it used to where you could turn up, no traffic, no entry fee (or was it a tenner?) and roam around without seeing hardly anyone in the stands?

Me thinks that it will attract 1000's now.

The report says European circuits, so not Bahrain.

[Kelateboy]

Great news I'd say - 4 nos of 2day in-season testings.

[Fastcake]

Some more testing to help develop the new engines was always going to happen, but I'll wait to see it actually hit the new regulations first. It's not the first time things have supposedly been agreed and then later backtracked upon. Remember the teams ditched the in-season test they had last year.

[Murdoch]

The report says European circuits, so not Bahrain.

Ok cheers.

Well thats good news (assuming you're European!)

If they did bolt it on to t a GP, and they chose Spa as a venue, then I'll book my channel tunnel tickets pronto!

p.s I appreciate its unlikely, but how good would that be! I'ld skip Friday and bolt on Monday instead

[peroa]

Oh, the last nail is slowly going in.

[Ferrari2183]

1. Every team should be able to test whatever, whenever, without any restrictions. If you live on your self-imposed budget, that's fine. You deal with it, but don't drag whole wide world into it.
2. Scrap parc ferme, and start restrictions (tire usage).
3. Scrap mandated pit stops or choice of tires, and instead, live and die by your own strategy. That could be interesting to watch.
4. Send all RE(s) on a life long gardening leave.

I love it.

8 days of testing is not enough.

[Clatter]

8 days of testing is not enough.

For you or for the teams?

[Ferrari2183]

For you or for the teams?

For all the teams involved as well the tyre manufacturer.

[Fastcake]

For all the teams involved as well the tyre manufacturer.

And yet none of them are asking for a large number of testing days. Even Montezemolo last I heard was only calling for limited in-season testing. The teams themselves seem to disagree with you.

[pRy]

If they want to save on costs why not just stay behind at certain circuits for a couple of days, ie, Barcelona, Silverstone?

[R Soul]

That would make sense. It used to annoy me when they'd test at Barcelona the week before the Spanish GP, leading to a Noah's Ark race, but a post race test would be good compromise.

[ExFlagMan]

And yet none of them are asking for a large number of testing days. Even Montezemolo last I heard was only calling for limited in-season testing. The teams themselves seem to disagree with you.

But what does 'limited' mean to Ferrari, only doing 4 days a week at their test track instead of 5.

Not sure if post-GP testing is a goer. Quite often it is a rush to get to the next venue in time. Team personel need time off after a race, if only to conform the European Work Time Directive. It may have worked when they had dedicated test teams but that is expensive.

There is also the need to clear up the circuit after the GP, it takes a few days that often involve on-track activity - don't really want to be testing whilst dodging fork-lift trucks/lorries/cranes.

[MikeMM]

I’m against in season testing because of several reasons.
1. The more testing teams do the less they are willing to increase calendar beyond 19 races. I’d like to watch as many races as possible.
2. Why teams don’t want to organize additional 1h-1,5h test session on Friday exclusively for test drivers is beyond me. Teams would get testing they want and young drivers would get valuable experience.

[ExFlagMan]

I’m against in season testing because of several reasons.
1. The more testing teams do the less they are willing to increase calendar beyond 19 races. I’d like to watch as many races as possible.
2. Why teams don’t want to organize additional 1h-1,5h test session on Friday exclusively for test drivers is beyond me. Teams would get testing they want and young drivers would get valuable experience.

Ok until test driver stuffs the car . I guess how useful the testing would be depends on the experience of the test driver, OK if it is someone like Pedro De La Rosa but less helpful using a rookie, though some back of the grid (cash-strapped) teams do use FP1 for that already.
Someone has already pointed out that spare track time is limited on the friday due to GP2/GP3/Porsche practice, though sometimes when you are there there seems to be a lot of 'waiting about' time.

[MikeMM]

Ok until test driver stuffs the car . I guess how useful the testing would be depends on the experience of the test driver, OK if it is someone like Pedro De La Rosa but less helpful using a rookie, though some back of the grid (cash-strapped) teams do use FP1 for that already.
Someone has already pointed out that spare track time is limited on the friday due to GP2/GP3/Porsche practice, though sometimes when you are there there seems to be a lot of 'waiting about' time.

One day LDM wants youngsters to get experience with F1 cars, the next day he is afraid they will break them.

This session for test drivers may take place last so mechanics will have time to repair car in case of accident. I think the main issue with testing on Friday is that mechanics would have to change engine and gear box for third session and it takes some time.

Edited by MikeMM, 07 June 2013 - 09:57.

[Sakae]

I’m against in season testing because of several reasons.
1. The more testing teams do the less they are willing to increase calendar beyond 19 races. I’d like to watch as many races as possible.
2. Why teams don’t want to organize additional 1h-1,5h test session on Friday exclusively for test drivers is beyond me. Teams would get testing they want and young drivers would get valuable experience.

FOM pretends we have 19 races, which I question, because these days more than six races are nothing else than very expensive testing sessions with cars that are not ready to be raced at their potential, or anywhere near to it.

Edited by Sakae, 07 June 2013 - 10:01.

[Clatter]

But what does 'limited' mean to Ferrari, only doing 4 days a week at their test track instead of 5.

Not sure if post-GP testing is a goer. Quite often it is a rush to get to the next venue in time. Team personel need time off after a race, if only to conform the European Work Time Directive. It may have worked when they had dedicated test teams but that is expensive.

There is also the need to clear up the circuit after the GP, it takes a few days that often involve on-track activity - don't really want to be testing whilst dodging fork-lift trucks/lorries/cranes.

It's only a rush if it's back to back races. No one is suggesting a test after every race so it really isn't an issue in that regard.

Clearing up is a non-issue as well. I've been to Silverstone tests the day after the GP in the past and everything was fine.

Edited by Clatter, 07 June 2013 - 10:09.

[SenorSjon]

One day LDM wants youngsters to get experience with F1 cars, the next day he is afraid they will break them.

This session for test drivers may take place last so mechanics will have time to repair car in case of accident. I think the main issue with testing on Friday is that mechanics would have to change engine and gear box for third session and it takes some time.

We had an useful solution for that, a T-car. But that was binned with parc ferme and use your engine forever rules.

You can only have 42 team members working on the car. And they need all the rest they can get when they have to rebuild after a crash (glares at Massa/Grosjean).

I was fine with 16 races on high quality venues, only adding Tilke-dromes to boost the numbers to 20 races isn't doing much to me.

[apoka]

2014? Merc introduced in-season-testing in 2013 already.

[Kelateboy]

Cost has always been cited as the main reason why some teams are against in-season testing. Why can't the FIA just designate race weekend's thursday at selected GPs as the in-season testing venues? That will surely keep the costs down as the teams are already there, and the tracks readily available for the teams. Am I missing something obvious?

[Sakae]

We had an useful solution for that, a T-car. But that was binned with parc ferme and use your engine forever rules.

You can only have 42 team members working on the car. And they need all the rest they can get when they have to rebuild after a crash (glares at Massa/Grosjean).

I was fine with 16 races on high quality venues, only adding Tilke-dromes to boost the numbers to 20 races isn't doing much to me.

It has done miracles for FOM bank account.

[ExFlagMan]

It's only a rush if it's back to back races. No one is suggesting a test after every race so it really isn't an issue in that regard.

Clearing up is a non-issue as well. I've been to Silverstone tests the day after the GP in the past and everything was fine.

True for Silverstone, which used to have a 3 week gap to the next GP so the clear up can be delayed if Bernie pays enough.
Still have the problems of personel though, without a test team. Silverstone was always a special case as most of the teams where based within 50 miles of the circuit, so getting a scratch test team there was not a problem if necessary.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 07 June 2013 - 11:32.

[FerrariV12]

1. Every team should be able to test whatever, whenever, without any restrictions. If you live on your self-imposed budget, that's fine. You deal with it, but don't drag whole wide world into it.
2. Scrap parc ferme, and start restrictions (tire usage).
3. Scrap mandated pit stops or choice of tires, and instead, live and die by your own strategy. That could be interesting to watch.
4. Send all RE(s) on a life long gardening leave.

I love it.

Don't be silly, it's not as if this worked for decades and decades before being messed around with, is it?;)

[Atreiu]

Or they can run on the thursday of some GP weeks and get mileage without having to set up a test team.

Edited by Atreiu, 07 June 2013 - 14:45.

[SpaMaster]

Four 2-day tests seem a lot. Two or three should be okay. Too much workload considering that we have 19-20 races these days.

[ExFlagMan]

Or they can run on the thursday of some GP weeks and get mileage without having to set up a test team.

Adding testing sounds easy if you say it fast enough.
Thursday as a test day makes things tricky for the organisers, Thursday at a GP is not a quite day - marshals sign on and briefings, track inspections, safety car laps etc. Scrutineering etc.
Running testing on the Thursday would probably just move all that to the Wednesday. Everything then has to arrive at the circuit a day earlier.
Also means another days leave from work needs to be taken by the marshals, another nights camping on the side of a hill etc.

[Disgrace]

I'm in favour of the return to in-season testing, but only if mileage is exclusive to young and test drivers.

[Nomore]

I think 8 day of testing is still too small considering the changes that we'll have next year...but i expect that this nr will increase in 2015 and 2016.

[ExFlagMan]

I'm in favour of the return to in-season testing, but only if mileage is exclusive to young and test drivers.

Just means inflation of the experience level of the test drivers employed - I guess a certain M Schumacher might be a reasonable choice

[Clatter]

Or they can run on the thursday of some GP weeks and get mileage without having to set up a test team.

They can run the Monday and Tuesday after without a test team. Thursday is a bad idea as they would have the cars too sorted for the race leading to a more predictable result.

[chrisblades85]

Would love it if one of the test sessions was at Silverstone, but I fear it will be one of these:- Cataluyna, Paul Rickard, Bahrain and one other (Jerez, Valancia or Catalunya (again))

If it did return to Silverstone I doubt it would be like it used to where you could turn up, no traffic, no entry fee (or was it a tenner?) and roam around without seeing hardly anyone in the stands?

Me thinks that it will attract 1000's now.

Always used to go when they went there about a month before the actual race weekend. Loved it.

Edited by chrisblades85, 07 June 2013 - 18:48.

[OO7]

2014? Merc introduced in-season-testing in 2013 already.

[Sakae]

The testing thingy together with all these artificial restrictions is broken, and gluing it with a chewing gum (test 2 days, no test 4 days, Monday, Thursday, no, no, no) is not going to fix it. Money is available, it's just spend on wrong things, and that's where it begins, and ends.

[Eff One 2002]

If this is true finally come common sense prevailing in F1 for a change....

[peroa]

All the worst decisions these people could possibly make they will make.
http://www.auto-moto...er-7223532.html

[eronrules]

All the worst decisions these people could possibly make they will make.
http://www.auto-moto...er-7223532.html

like fernando says .... This is Ridiculus

btw, if customer chasis comes along, i refuse to term the series Formula 1 anymore.

[ApexMouse]

I'm sure they'll care.

[Fastcake]

All the worst decisions these people could possibly make they will make.
http://www.auto-moto...er-7223532.html

Thank you for sharing an article in German and not translating it for the rest of us.

[Sakae]

Thank you for sharing an article in German and not translating it for the rest of us.

Cost savings is a sham; fair enough?

[Zava]

teams reached an agreement:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/107991
now only the WMSC needs to approve.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Well seeing that the four agreed in season tests will be held on the track where a Grand Prix was ridden the day before will help the smaller teams cost wise.

I'm sure the four tracks will include Catalunya, Silverstone, Monza. Last one Bahrain, like it will be during pre season?

[Zava]

Well seeing that the four agreed in season tests will be held on the track where a Grand Prix was ridden the day before will help the smaller teams cost wise.

I'm sure the four tracks will include Catalunya, Silverstone, Monza. Last one Bahrain, like it will be during pre season?

I think it is european tracks, so no bahrain. teams deffo want barcelona & silverstone, the article suggests spa & hungaroring, and boy do I hope the latter will be decided on...