307 replies to this topic

[schubacca]

I must admit that Andew Benson continues to bother me.

Anyone familiar with his writing style knows that he excels at the sideways comment. In this case it is the idea that FA skills may be in decline.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22762678

I think it is ridiculous. My personal estimation of FA is that he is the most complete driver in F1 today.

What do you think? Is he in decline?

[mnmracer]

BBC is jumping the gun: Alonso may not be reaching his (supposed) peak of last year, but that doesn't suddenly make him on the decline.

What I find extremely funny though is that everyone who was burning Vettel last year, is now excusing Alonso for the exact same thing: bad luck, different cars being faster at different times. It only makes me appreciate more my skill to judge drivers on equal grounds, so I don't have to change my standards every other year.

[Topsu]

He lacks motivation. Driving for Ferrari will do that for you.

[Vesuvius]

He has made mistakes this year and monaco was really horrible race from him, he got overtaken three times on a track were overtaking should be impossible. Then again he has excellent races too, so I don't think he is doing bad at all, it's the pressure to do well that Vettel and Kimi puts at the moment that makes also Fernando to do mistakes.

[schubacca]

He lacks motivation. Driving for Ferrari will do that for you.

Yep, I saw that in MS also....

FA wants to win. I do not know why Ferrari has nullified that desire...

[schubacca]

He has made mistakes this year and monaco was really horrible race from him, he got overtaken three times on a track were overtaking should be impossible. Then again he has excellent races too, so I don't think he is doing bad at all, it's the pressure to do well that Vettel and Kimi puts at the moment that makes also Fernando to do mistakes.

Heck Senna made mistakes also....

As did Schumacher, Prost, and many other greats....

Vettel's task is not what Alonso's task is...

[holiday]

This annoying talk about declining abilities, it sticks like **** on your shoes once a driver gets past a certain age and resurfaces like plastic rubbish as soon as he dares to shows a lacklustre performance once in a while.

[Sakae]

Yep, I saw that in MS also....

FA wants to win. I do not know why Ferrari has nullified that desire...

That might be news to Scuderria.

[schubacca]

This annoying talk about declining abilities, it sticks like **** on your shoes once a driver gets past a certain age and resurfaces like plastic rubbish as soon as he dares to shows a lacklustre performance once in a while.

Yep, Prost was in decline..... Then he wins a WDC.

Schumacher was in decline in 2003.... Then he wins another WDC...

I don't understand it really?

[rasul]

He lacks motivation. Driving for Ferrari will do that for you.

Yep, I saw that in MS also....

What? That's completely different. MS won everything with Ferrari, Alonso won nothing. It's strange to blame Ferrari--the team that completely supports Alonso--for the lack of Alonso's motivation and bad form.

[schubacca]

What? That's completely different. MS won everything with Ferrari, Alonso won nothing. It's strange to blame Ferrari--the team that completely supports Alonso--for the lack of Alonso's motivation and bad form.

LOL,

I was being sarcastic

[Sakae]

BBC is jumping the gun: Alonso may not be reaching his (supposed) peak of last year, but that doesn't suddenly make him on the decline.

What I find extremely funny though is that everyone who was burning Vettel last year, is now excusing Alonso for the exact same thing: bad luck, different cars being faster at different times. It only makes me appreciate more my skill to judge drivers on equal grounds, so I don't have to change my standards every other year.

Last year I think a lot of people turn the other way, but IMO nothing has changed, its just people get tired, and one day your best friends turn on you. That's life with piranhas in your fish bowl in the middle of your living room.

[Sin]

can't make such judgements before the year is over there are many races to go still

[schubacca]

What? That's completely different. MS won everything with Ferrari, Alonso won nothing. It's strange to blame Ferrari--the team that completely supports Alonso--for the lack of Alonso's motivation and bad form.

Ferrari has let down FA more than FA has let down Ferrari.

Back on topic: I do not believe that FA is 1) unmotivated or 2) in decline.

[Vesuvius]

Heck Senna made mistakes also....

As did Schumacher, Prost, and many other greats....

Vettel's task is not what Alonso's task is...

For sure everyone does mistakes, it's just Alonso this year with his best Ferrari has done more mistakes than in last two seasons together...already last year when he was leading the championship in final races, his performance wasn't the maximum what that car could achieve, Felipe was doing as well and even better that Alonso even if all the updates and focus was first put on Fernandos car. I don't think Fernando is any worse than he has been in the past, it's just the fact that Vettel and Kimi has done less mistakes than him so far.

[MarileneRiddle]

I must admit that Andew Benson continues to bother me.

He has bothered me for a long time. It is amusing when a poster is also a bandwagoner, but when a journalist is a bandwagoner it just smacks of unprofessionalism.

Last year he was campaigning Alonso all the way and claiming how much better Alonso is compared to everyone else. But now a few races into the new season, Alonso has "a slight dimming of commitment" while Vettel (who was rated unfavourably by Benson last season when compared to Alonso) "is so far showing Alonso-like levels of consistency". What? It is almost like the way (sorry for the football comparison) that some people have jumped from FCB(arcelona) to FCB(ayern Munich), just over the course of a two-legged semi final. Just as Barcelona's decline didn't come overnight, Alonso couldn't have possibly just started his 'decline' over the Monaco weekend. So either his previous praise of Alonso is overblown, or his current almost dismissal of Alonso's efforts is far too damning. Personally, I think it is both.

Alonso is just in a bad patch (like he was at the end of last season). I am pretty sure class will show through. *shrugs*

[goingthedistance]

One bad race where he has some bits of another car stuck under his says nothing IMO. He's looked as good as ever the rest of the year.

[Kingshark]

I doubt most drivers decline at the age of 31. Senna and Schumacher were still in top forum at this age. Alonso could probably continue to be a top driver until he's around 35 (in 2016), then I expect a decline, not this soon.

It's Andrew Benson though, he's arguably one of the worst journalists in general, and tries to make a big deal out of everything. Apparently, Alonso's dominant drive in Spain is a blur to him, Fernando had a bad race in Monaco, so he must be declining.

[aray]

i would love to read what Mrs Benson says when Alonso will win the title this year..

[rasul]

I think it is ridiculous. My personal estimation of FA is that he is the most complete driver in F1 today.

What do you think? Is he in decline?

I agree with you: Benson is as ridiculous as ever. I think it's too early for Alonso to be in decline. But it's undeniable that he's been far from flawless this season.

But out of curiosity: what do you mean when you say that you consider Alonso the most complete driver? I have to say it always surprises me when I hear that. To me, "the most complete" driver should be excellent both in Qualifying and Race, while it's a well-known knowledge that Qualifying isn't FA's strongest point. He's an excellent racer, but he's never been an excellent qualifier. When I think of "complete drivers" Alonso isn't among those who come to mind.

[Xeriks]

Not sure what there is to discuss, it's an Andrew Benson article..

[Shiroo]

One bad race where he has some bits of another car stuck under his says nothing IMO. He's looked as good as ever the rest of the year.

Heck no. He looked quite bad in Monaco. And he was rather really good if we consider rest of the year.
Not as good as Vettel or Kimi but still quite good.

Benson is being Benson. If it would be Lewis that performed not well in Monaco, he would be saying that it is the tyres, weak car, no df, or position of planets was not so lucky for him. Just leave him be... Eventho Alonso at 70% of his max potential would be still top 5 of current grid.

But I would say as well, that he isn't as brilliant as last year

Edited by Shiroo, 06 June 2013 - 14:57.

[jmkaos]

We all saw how he was in decline when he won in Barcelona sooooooooooo long ago...

Pointless article by Andrew Benson, imho.

[as65p]

Heck no. He looked quite bad in Monaco. And he was rather really good if we consider rest of the year.
Not as good as Vettel or Kimi but still quite good.

Benson is being Benson. If it would be Lewis that performed not well in Monaco, he would be saying that it is the tyres, weak car, no df, or position of planets was not so lucky for him. Just leave him be... Eventho Alonso at 70% of his max potential would be still top 5 of current grid.

But I would say as well, that he isn't as brilliant as last year

Let me guess, your two favourite drivers? What a pleasant surprise that exactly those two come out better than Alonso, eh?

Besides, I'm a bit worried that those two seem more and more to become a unit, something like 'Vekkönnen'. Almost every fan of KR seems to support SV next, or vice-versa. Fascinating...

[undersquare]

Seems quite a good article to me, going through FA in recent races, 'watch for this' sort of thing, asking the question. It's just the ex-driver quote that he's past his absolute peak, which tbh was something I'd wondered about. The peak is only a very small difference from each year or two either side, after all, and iirc statistically the average age of the wdc is 29/30 in recent times (tho Sebi will be eating into that).

[2ms]

Let me guess, your two favourite drivers? What a pleasant surprise that exactly those two come out better than Alonso, eh?

Besides, I'm a bit worried that those two seem more and more to become a unit, something like 'Vekkönnen'. Almost every fan of KR seems to support SV next, or vice-versa. Fascinating...

As fascinating as conspiracy theories and new terms for pigeon-holing people who like drivers other than our own favorites is, I'm pretty sure he was referring to Vettel and Kimi because they are the two leading championship ahead of Alonso right now.

Edited by 2ms, 06 June 2013 - 15:14.

[joshb]

Let me guess, your two favourite drivers? What a pleasant surprise that exactly those two come out better than Alonso, eh?

Besides, I'm a bit worried that those two seem more and more to become a unit, something like 'Vekkönnen'. Almost every fan of KR seems to support SV next, or vice-versa. Fascinating...

Thing is... I agree with the as65p!

and I don't really care about Raikkonen

[sopa]

He is not in decline, but I think IN COMPARISON with Vettel and Hamilton his advantage has peaked. It means that Alonso can hardly improve on what he showed in 2012, while Hamilton and especially Vettel can only get stronger.

First half of 2012 it was said that Alonso is already a legend, a top dog, while Vettel was average and inferior. This was the biggest gap in performance you were going to see between those two. While with time Vettel is gonna move ahead and status of each driver is changing.

[Atreiu]

Benson, as everyone else, keeps saying Alonso usually does great at Monaco. I don't get it.
Except for his wins in 2006 and 2007, he has nothing to show for Monaco except for crashes, missed opportunities and two podiums. That's very little for 12GPs

He's not in decline by the way. He just hasn't been the dominant, flawless and relentless force people were expecting.

[rasul]

Let me guess, your two favourite drivers? What a pleasant surprise that exactly those two come out better than Alonso, eh?

Besides, I'm a bit worried that those two seem more and more to become a unit, something like 'Vekkönnen'. Almost every fan of KR seems to support SV next, or vice-versa. Fascinating...

Maybe you should take a look at this thread . They are simply doing a better job than Alonso. It's as simple as that, really.

[Kingshark]

As fascinating as conspiracy theories and new terms for pigeon-holing people who like drivers other than our own favorites is, I'm pretty sure he was referring to Vettel and Kimi because they are the two leading championship ahead of Alonso right now.

After Canada '12 or Monza '12, did you consider Hamilton and Alonso the two best drivers in Formula 1 because they were leading the WDC? Poor excuse.

Although I too have noticed it; if you were to make a Venn diagram of Vettel fans and Raikkonen fans, you'll realize that the two circles would almost overlap.

He is not in decline, but I think IN COMPARISON with Vettel and Hamilton his advantage has peaked. It means that Alonso can hardly improve on what he showed in 2012, while Hamilton and especially Vettel can only get stronger.

This, Alonso has hit the prime of his career, and now it's only a question of how long he can stay there.

Edited by Kingshark, 06 June 2013 - 15:23.

[kosmos]

Benson, as everyone else, keeps saying Alonso usually does great at Monaco. I don't get it.
Except for his wins in 2006 and 2007, he has nothing to show for Monaco except for crashes, missed opportunities and two podiums. That's very little for 12GPs

He's not in decline by the way. He just hasn't been the dominant, flawless and relentless force people were expecting.

So now 2 wins plus two podiums is doing just OK or even worst!.

[P123]

I must admit that Andew Benson continues to bother me.

Anyone familiar with his writing style knows that he excels at the sideways comment. In this case it is the idea that FA skills may be in decline.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22762678

I think it is ridiculous. My personal estimation of FA is that he is the most complete driver in F1 today.

What do you think? Is he in decline?

The article seems to blame Ferrari for not maximizing what they have this year compared to last, despite having a better car. All I can see is Benson highlighting how uncharacteristic a race Monaco was for Alonso, and how he and Ferrari can't afford any more like that as Vettel is already stretching out in the WDC.

[bourbon]

Let me guess, your two favourite drivers? What a pleasant surprise that exactly those two come out better than Alonso, eh?

That would be the WDC rankings that put them ahead. They have outperformed FA, but that does not mean his skills are on decline - that's just racing.

Besides, I'm a bit worried that those two seem more and more to become a unit, something like 'Vekkönnen'.

You lost me. Why are you worried? What do you mean a more and more a unit? How does that relate to FA's purported fading skills?

Almost every fan of KR seems to support SV next, or vice-versa. Fascinating...

Don't really see what this has to do with FA's purported fading skills. Do you think this idea bothers FA and negatively impacts his driving?

Edited by bourbon, 06 June 2013 - 15:33.

[TheThirdTenor1]

His motivation reminds me of Schumacher in the late 90s. I think he is among the most motivated on the grid, but it's something that is hard to measure.

[Nomore]

What? That's completely different. MS won everything with Ferrari, Alonso won nothing. It's strange to blame Ferrari--the team that completely supports Alonso--for the lack of Alonso's motivation and bad form.

MS came in 1996 and won in 2000..5 years later...
Alonso came in Ferrari in 2010 and if he win this year is better then Schumi or next year to equal Schumi

If u Hate Ferrari or Alonso i understand you, but in my Personal opinion Fernando Alonso is the best driver that i have ever seen

Edited by Nomore, 06 June 2013 - 15:31.

[Shiroo]

Let me guess, your two favourite drivers? What a pleasant surprise that exactly those two come out better than Alonso, eh?

Besides, I'm a bit worried that those two seem more and more to become a unit, something like 'Vekkönnen'. Almost every fan of KR seems to support SV next, or vice-versa. Fascinating...

Actually I don't like Vettel and I don't like RBR in general. But I can say that Vettel is doing brilliant job this year, especially if we compare him to his teammate. If he could deliver a podium or a win in some race, he did that.

[sheepgobba]

His motivation reminds me of Schumacher in the late 90s. I think he is among the most motivated on the grid, but it's something that is hard to measure.

Frankly, I don't have any idea how Alonso can be so motivated. He tends to find motivation easily... But I think it's always hard to be motivated as it can led to being burnt out. S

[Nomore]

KR and SV have a important aspects in common in terms of racing, that is why it is sensible one might be a fan of both. Yet they are uniquely different too.

True Raikkonen's fans does not support Vettel...are jsut some Vettel's fan that support Raikkonen because they believe that Raikkonen is the only friend that Vettel have in the paddock...thats all
nor of my Raikkonen's fans freind support vettel...

[BoschKurve]

Andrew Benson's only goal likely was to get people clicking on his article, and then discussing it as here. It works.

[sheepgobba]

True Raikkonen's fans does not support Vettel...are jsut some Vettel's fan that support Raikkonen because they believe that Raikkonen is the only friend that Vettel have in the paddock...thats all
nor of my Raikkonen's fans freind support vettel...

Nonsense...

[Nomore]

Nonsense...

nonsense..

[Schumacher7]

MS came in 1996 and won in 2000..5 years later...
Alonso came in Ferrari in 2010 and if he win this year is better then Schumi or next year to equal Schumi

If u Hate Ferrari or Alonso i understand you, but in my Personal opinion Fernando Alonso is the best driver that i have ever seen

Yeah...circumstances were a bit different...

[Nomore]

Yeah...circumstances were a bit different...

What ?

[Sin]

What ?

because Ferrari hadn't won in many, many, many years before Schumacher came there...

the last time Ferrari won WDC & WCC now has not been so long ago...

so you can't really compare the situations...

however like I said if Alonso is declining in performance you can't say before the end of the year

Edited by Sin, 06 June 2013 - 16:24.

[Atreiu]

So now 2 wins plus two podiums is doing just OK or even worst!.

Read it again. I said he hasn't been dominant, flawless and relentless as people expected.

The "OK or even worst" is entirely up to you. Is it what you think?

[chrisj]

I think Alonso has always played percentages and relied on consistency rather than speed. With all of his experience, this tactic should work even better for him. He does seem crazier than ever with his Samurai talk. Comedy gold.

[Nomore]

because Ferrari hadn't won in many, many, many years before Schumacher came there...

the last time Ferrari won WDC & WCC now has not been so long ago...

so you can't really compare the situations...

however like I said if Alonso is declining in performance you can't say before the end of the year

that is true, but are true also some other things..

in those year Ferrari was allowed to test now not....
in those year it was Ferrari vs Mclaren, now is Ferrari, Red Bull, Mclaren, Lotus, Mercedes all contenders
In those year aerodynamic was not as important as now, one of the weakest point of Ferrari in history...

with all this being said, in my personal opinion it is more difficult for fernando to win now than for Michael in those years...the drivers are much stronger and the competitiveness of the cars is much bigger...

[Nomore]

that is true, but are true also some other things..

in those year Ferrari was allowed to test now not....
in those year it was Ferrari vs Mclaren, now is Ferrari, Red Bull, Mclaren, Lotus, Mercedes all contenders
In those year aerodynamic was not as important as now, one of the weakest point of Ferrari in history...

with all this being said, in my personal opinion it is more difficult for fernando to win now than for Michael in those years...the drivers are much stronger and the competitiveness of the cars is much bigger...

Too also add that Michael was able to make only one podium in 2010-2012...Sure it's not the same Michael 97-2001 but it shows you how difficult is to win now...and also i think that the driver was more important in those years compared to now...

To be clear i liked Schumi in those years as i like Alonso now...they are both great drivers, but in my personal opinion Alonso has no weak points

Edited by Nomore, 06 June 2013 - 16:45.

[solochamp07]

We all saw how he was in decline when he won in Barcelona sooooooooooo long ago...

Pointless article by Andrew Benson, imho.

Yes, waning skills and a fading career were certainly my first thoughts as Fred passed Kimi AND Lewis round the outside of turn 3.

Tragic to watch really, like a bad trainwreck...