383 replies to this topic

[EthanM]

As I was saying in the other thread, the yearly ********-fueled smear campaign against Vettel has begun.

Yawn.

you should have seen this particular guy (under his original username) shouting from the rooftops last year that the Karthikeyan incident was the beginning of Vettel's meltdown cause Hamilton was ****obviously***** going to easily win WDC and Vettel couldn't handle the pressure.


Stuff like that got him laughed off the speed boards. Where he also username hoped in the end.

[TheThirdTenor1]

We are only having a beef with FOS' ridiculous attempts to diminish any of Vettel's achievements.
You should probably stop arguing on fullofshithouse's side if your only beef is Vettel not being an all-time great.

For the record i think he will go down as an all time great, because it looks very much like he will probably win at least 5 championships in his career.

[dau]

So your "winning" move ist, that you definie Vettel as a mediocre driver? Chess does not seem to be your game^^

That was the whole point.

[dau]

Precisely. This is well known to be a true test of a driver. Once this happens there is no doubt that he is an all time great.

Come to think of it, i do remember threads like this for the other champions. Kimi was that boring car breaker who got lucky with the Macs eliminating each other one year. Hamilton was the spoilt brat who came into the sport, got the best car and "preferential treatment" right away. Alonso was the arrogant youngster who could only win because he had the best tyres/illegal parts on his car. Schumacher....well there have been many, many threads and opinions about Schumacher.

Not too bad of a company i guess.

[danmills]

I guess Fangio needs to be downgraded as well in his achievements because there wasn't enough competition.

So who does that leave us with in terms of a proper champion who deserved it?

Oh wait, strike Hunt off the list as well.

[Kelateboy]

As I was saying in the other thread, the yearly ********-fueled smear campaign against Vettel has begun.

Yawn.

This is nothing yet. Wait till he bags his 4th straight WDC title, then you'd see the real shitstorm....

[EvanRainer]

This is nothing yet. Wait till he bags his 4th straight WDC title, then you'd see the real shitstorm....

Eh, usually by the end most of them have accepted it. It's when the prospect of a Vettel title starts to become more and more real that they panic and lose their cool. Last year it kicked off around September when Vettel started winning.

[TheThirdTenor1]

Eh, usually by the end most of them have accepted it. It's when the prospect of a Vettel title starts to become more and more real that they panic and lose their cool. Last year it kicked off around September when Vettel started winning.

works both ways. There were also some fanboys who were panicking at the thought of Alonso winning the title around Korea 10, Hockneheim/Monza 12.

[PurpleHam]

Look at what Hamilton has done, got tired of being let down by Mclaren, put his reputation on the line and moved to a team in the midfield.

That takes balls, that takes belief in your ability.

Vettel will never do that, he's no mug, he knows if he did his legacy would be in tatters, found out big time.

Adrian Newey is the star at Redbull, without him, Vettel would have nothing, those cars have been head and shoulders above the field up until last season, when Mclaren had a car that should have won both championships, but as is the Mclaren way recently, they handed Vettel his third title gift wrapped on a plate, Vettel won the title last season by finishing more races than Hamilton.

[skywing]

Look at what Hamilton has done, got tired of being let down by Mclaren, put his reputation on the line and moved to a team in the midfield.

That takes balls, that takes belief in your ability.

Vettel will never do that, he's no mug, he knows if he did his legacy would be in tatters, found out big time.

Adrian Newey is the star at Redbull, without him, Vettel would have nothing, those cars have been head and shoulders above the field up until last season, when Mclaren had a car that should have won both championships, but as is the Mclaren way recently, they handed Vettel his third title gift wrapped on a plate, Vettel won the title last season by finishing more races than Hamilton.

Why on earth Vettel would move back to the midfield, that's where he started his career(unlike Lewis).

And I don't see how a team 3rd in the WCC is midfield. But keep on bashing.

[mnmracer]

Whine whine, double standard, double standard, look at what my star finally did after 6 years in a top team, look at these predictions I am making based on absolutely nothing

I think you've signed into the wrong account there buddy.

[seahawk]

Look at what Hamilton has done, got tired of being let down by Mclaren, put his reputation on the line and moved to a team in the midfield.

That takes balls, that takes belief in your ability.

Vettel will never do that, he's no mug, he knows if he did his legacy would be in tatters, found out big time.

Adrian Newey is the star at Redbull, without him, Vettel would have nothing, those cars have been head and shoulders above the field up until last season, when Mclaren had a car that should have won both championships, but as is the Mclaren way recently, they handed Vettel his third title gift wrapped on a plate, Vettel won the title last season by finishing more races than Hamilton.

Oh please, Hamilton went off to Mercedes for various reasons, but surely not in the hope to get a midfield car and show the world how awesome he is fighting for 6th place. He wanted to get out of McLaren´s way to treat their drivers and went to the team has been putting up lots of resources to improve by hiring many first class engineers from other teams.

[joshb]

Hamilton went to Merc to get more money for doing less promotional work... then as an afterthought, the 2014 engines

[Massa_f1]

He has won 3 World Championships in a row. He is up there with the greats of the sport. Like It or not.

[danmills]

So those discrediting Vettel's success being all down to Newey, what do you make of Schumacher's titles then? Driver or Car/Team?

As for Vettel, he is the one driving that car to Q3 each time. He is the one putting it in pole. He is the one taking fastest lap. He is the one on the top step of the podium.

If the car is the only thing responsible for handing it to him on a plate, then why not sack Webber, save 70 kilos and let the second Red Bull drive itself.

Apparantly, it more or less does.

What does Vettel need to do to get recognition? Strip him to his underwear and make him crawl across the line in nothing but fig leaves covering his modesty?

Personally, he annoys me with his success. I'm a Rosberg and Williams fan, but credit where it's due, the boy is fantastic.

Edited by danmills, 10 June 2013 - 15:23.

[EthanM]

If the car is the only thing responsible for handing it to him on a plate, then why not sack Webber, save 70 kilos and let the second Red Bull drive itself.

Causer fier... sorry PurpleH... sorry fullh.... sorry CurvaS... oh I 've lost track of the usernames. Anyways. That dude's favorite driver went begging for Webber's seat last year. And Horner said thanks but no thanks, we dont need drama lamas around here. And our friend hasn't gotten over it yet.

[PARAZAR]

Because Hamilton (at least when his head's in the game) and Alonso are also so much better than the rest.

Well Alonso came second in 2010 and 2012, Jenson in 2011 and Hamilton was 4th, 5th and 4th in those 3 seasons.

[P123]

Well Alonso came second in 2010 and 2012, Jenson in 2011 and Hamilton was 4th, 5th and 4th in those 3 seasons.

I thought this topic was about Vettel... but anyway, Hamilton was in the championship fight in the last round of 2010 and anybody watching 2012 that isn't a dribbling hate filled keyboard warrior (many of which reside in this topic) would know that it wasn't his driving that was repsonsible for that 4th placed finish.

Edited by P123, 10 June 2013 - 15:46.

[P123]

So those discrediting Vettel's success being all down to Newey, what do you make of Schumacher's titles then? Driver or Car/Team?

As for Vettel, he is the one driving that car to Q3 each time. He is the one putting it in pole. He is the one taking fastest lap. He is the one on the top step of the podium.

If the car is the only thing responsible for handing it to him on a plate, then why not sack Webber, save 70 kilos and let the second Red Bull drive itself.

Apparantly, it more or less does.

What does Vettel need to do to get recognition? Strip him to his underwear and make him crawl across the line in nothing but fig leaves covering his modesty?

Personally, he annoys me with his success. I'm a Rosberg and Williams fan, but credit where it's due, the boy is fantastic.

True, but who cares about those who don't give him credit? There are always dumb caveats as to what driver x must do in or to make people rate him. Fact is they will never rate them. It's more comforting to snipe on here instead.

Edited by P123, 10 June 2013 - 15:50.

[Collombin]

I guess Fangio needs to be downgraded as well in his achievements because there wasn't enough competition.

I spotted the sarcasm, but Fangio had plenty of competition. Moss is an automatic all time top 10, Ascari probably likewise, Brooks top 20, and the likes of Farina, Hawthorn, Collins and Gonzalez could all be great on their day too.

[PARAZAR]

I thought this topic was about Vettel... but anyway, Hamilton was in the championship fight in the last round of 2010 and anybody watching 2012 that isn't a dribbling hate filled keyboard warrior (many of which reside in this topic) would know that it wasn't his driving that was repsonsible for that 4th placed finish.

Hey I was answering to someone elses post that said that Webber wasn't in 2nd in the championship since 2010 because of Alonso and Hamilton. And I clarified that Hamilton hasn't ever been in second since 2010, in fact he was in 4th, 5th, 4th. As far as this being a topic about Vettel and why are we talking about Hamilton I wasn't the one to mention him to begin with.

[William Hunt]

Vettel could be on his way to break Schumacher's records, for example the nr of world titles. He is cruising to his 4th title in a row this year and will still only be 26 years old in july.

[ensign14]

I spotted the sarcasm, but Fangio had plenty of competition. Moss is an automatic all time top 10, Ascari probably likewise, Brooks top 20, and the likes of Farina, Hawthorn, Collins and Gonzalez could all be great on their day too.

And of course if you wanted to compete with Fangio you could buy his car and race it.

[mnmracer]

I spotted the sarcasm, but Fangio had plenty of competition. Moss is an automatic all time top 10, Ascari probably likewise, Brooks top 20, and the likes of Farina, Hawthorn, Collins and Gonzalez could all be great on their day too.

Same goes for Vettel (whom Moss rates very highly), but since he receives no credit, by that reasoning, neither would Fangio.
Or Ascari for that matter, who was even more Vettel-like.

[EvanRainer]

works both ways. There were also some fanboys who were panicking at the thought of Alonso winning the title around Korea 10, Hockneheim/Monza 12.

*Shrug*. I don't remember but it certainly wouldn't have been Vettel fanboys seeing how they didn't really exist back then (and you'd be hard pressed to find any even now)

[muramasa]

I would say that his success lie on hard work and tremendous focus on the job. Also his quiet personal life helps too. But, on the race weekend he is the most focused and success driven F1 driver right now.

yip

when Bridgestone withdrew from F1, Japan's Fuji TV made and run Bridgestone tribute program which mainly consisted of close covering of Bridgestone activities at venue and Hamashima in 2010. In that program was often captured that Vettel haunted Hamashima to ask about tyre - him waiting or visiting motorhome for Hamashima, calling mobile to Hamashima etc.
And asked about what he think about 2010 championship result right after Abu Dhabi flag, Hamashima said sth like "it's not bad to see a driver who came so passionately to ask us about tyre winning the WDC".

Of course you can be cynical to guess TV producer picked and highlighted Vettel part intentionally coz he was WDC, and of course Alonso, Massa Lewis etc must be no less serious about tyre. But in various media outlets and interviews (mainly in Japanese), Hamashima often mentioned about Vettel attitude and anecdotes of Vettel coming to ask him about tyre often, discuss about tyre with bs engineers alot, and give phone call to Hamashima often.
I knew and was following that back then so this recent pic looks lovely and tells alot to me



this Hamashina/bridgeston/2010 story alone can give some clue to how much hard work he must be actually doing behind the scene that might be overlooked by quite a few people.

[mnmracer]

*Shrug*. I don't remember but it certainly wouldn't have been Vettel fanboys seeing how they didn't really exist back then (and you'd be hard pressed to find any even now)

To him (them), saying that while Alonso was arguably the best driver last year, he did not outdrive the Ferrari by 2 seconds, equals people saying at least 7 other drivers would have won the championship in the RB8...

[mnmracer]

yip

when Bridgestone withdrew from F1, Japan's Fuji TV made and run Bridgestone tribute program which mainly consisted of close covering of Bridgestone activities at venue and Hamashima in 2010. In that program was often captured that Vettel haunted Hamashima to ask about tyre - him waiting or visiting motorhome for Hamashima, calling mobile to Hamashima etc.
And asked about what he think about 2010 championship result right after Abu Dhabi flag, Hamashima said sth like "it's not bad to see a driver who came so passionately to ask us about tyre winning the WDC".

Of course you can be cynical to guess TV producer picked and highlighted Vettel part intentionally coz he was WDC, and of course Alonso, Massa Lewis etc must be no less serious about tyre. But in various media outlets and interviews (mainly in Japanese), Hamashima often mentioned about Vettel attitude and anecdotes of Vettel coming to ask him about tyre often, discuss about tyre with bs engineers alot, and give phone call to Hamashima often.
I knew and was following that back then so this recent pic looks lovely and tells alot to me



this Hamashina/bridgeston/2010 story alone can give some clue to how much hard work he must be actually doing behind the scene that might be overlooked by quite a few people.

It's also been well-documented he was the only driver to visit the Pirelli factory prior to 2011.

[Myrvold]

I spotted the "differences in circuits" discussion here.

And I also kinda feel that one doesn't have to be as good on different types of tracks these days. There are a lot of different tracks, but the thing I notice, is that the downforce level, and speed is about the same at all tracks. No matter if it is Monza or Hungary (Yes, there are a small difference, but it is extremely little compared to older days).
Before you could easily find drivers that was better with high downforce, then others with low downforce (wasn't Mika Salo one of those "low downforce warriors"). You would need to be able to handle a lot of different type of cars. I don't feel that's the case anymore. It feels like you need to be good at one thing, and that's enough.

I know this is far from a fact, but it is how I feel. And based on that. Vettel won't be among the all time greats in my head.

[TheThirdTenor1]

To him (them), saying that while Alonso was arguably the best driver last year, he did not outdrive the Ferrari by 2 seconds, equals people saying at least 7 other drivers would have won the championship in the RB8...

No, i've never said or implied anything like that. I would appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of saying things that i didn't, and to not dump me in the same basket as other posters on here. Else, I will report you to the mods.

[sopa]

Discussion here is comedy gold. I am surprised the thread is still open.

Sadly Vettel detractors have forgotten the best argument, why he isn't a top driver.

That is, let me help you:
He fails to win on European circuits.

[EthanM]

Discussion here is comedy gold. I am surprised the thread is still open.

Sadly Vettel detractors have forgotten the best argument, why he isn't a top driver.

That is, let me help you:
He fails to win on European circuits.

also he cant overtake

[TheThirdTenor1]

*Shrug*. I don't remember but it certainly wouldn't have been Vettel fanboys seeing how they didn't really exist back then (and you'd be hard pressed to find any even now)

Are you serious?

It was a bunch of crap. Alonso being handed the damn championship - being handed all kinds of crap this year. Vettel left him more room than he left last year. Terrible call. Then we will hear what a 'fabulous' driver Alonso is - when he went wide and forced himself further into the dirt.

Aw well, back to the race where Alonso's radio is annoucing that Massa will be giving him his position. What a joke of a driver. And there oozes the last of the very little respect I had left for the dude. Worst Driver Ever.

[SophieB]

Discussion here is comedy gold. I am surprised the thread is still open.

Because no-one reported how terrible it was. Now here we are.