156 replies to this topic

[NotSoSilentBob]

With Vettel signing up for the 2015 season at RBR, it definitely puts to bed the lengthy-though-inaccurate speculation that he was off to Ferrari for 2014, but it hadn't yet been announced.

So the focus now surely turns to what Webber's going to do next year.

My thoughts are that (despite his situation) he'd be most keen on re-signing with Red Bull, given that they probably give him the best shot at winning races, which surely is the best he can be hoping for at this stage of his career. If RBR are adamant they're going to change the driver mix, do you see Webber retiring or moving elsewhere? Ferrari? Lotus?

Edited by NotSoSilentBob, 22 June 2013 - 02:23.

[fullhouse]

If Rebull if they sign up such an old consistent under achiever up again it will confirm they are the most one man team in the sport and don't care about it. Hopefully they finally sign up a fresh good driver who might be able to beat Vettel, but they will probably just sign up Riccardo who is young enough to spend the next decade as his number 2.

[pryanjack]

If Rebull if they sign up such an old consistent under achiever up again it will confirm they are the most one man team in the sport and don't care about it. Hopefully they finally sign up a fresh good driver who might be able to beat Vettel, but they will probably just sign up Riccardo who is young enough to spend the next decade as his number 2.

Raikkonen would be a great marketing move for the team and elevate the team from that perspective to another level. It would also really set the cat amongst the pigeons and be interesting to see how Vettel would react to the situation - especially if Raikkonen were to start consistently challenging his pace. Webber just isnt consistent enough for whatever reason, so I think Vettel knows that at some point in the season, Webber's challenge falls away (in general) ... Raikkonen might not be so easy to shake off.

[Jovanotti]

I believe his first choice would be another year with RB. If they don't renew his contract, he'll have to choose between another F1 seat (probably Lotus would want an experienced driver if Räikkönen moves to RB, don't think Ferrari is likely as they'll retain Massa) and driving endurance races with Porsche. A few good options for him.

[Sith]

He's off to Porsche WEC... It's a done deal!

[nomi]

He's off to Porsche WEC... It's a done deal!

Source??

[NotSoSilentBob]

^ internet rumours. Was posted up here as 'confirmed' a couple of months ago...

[Racer3]

I wish Webber would join Ferrari and give Alonso a run for his money, as an eye-opener for all the detractors calling him "rubbish" and for all those that refuse to see the possibility that Webber isn't rubbish but that Vettel has uncannily developed as a racer and learned his lessons from every single mistake he made (that's one of the secrets of his success), making it so hard to beat him.

But my guess is that Ferrari are going to keep Massa, and that Webber is going to leave F1, unless his results get much better over the season and RBR offer him a contract at a later stage.

[UPRC]

It's hard to not like Webber, and I hope that he's not at Red Bull next year just to avoid further drama and fireworks. Plus it's clearly Vettel's team, in terms of who the team rallies behind more and just simply who is the better driver there. I think Mark could flourish at a team such as Force India or Lotus right now, and I'd love to see him at one of those teams for another year or two before he decides to finally throw in the towel.

[fullhouse]

I wish Webber would join Ferrari and give Alonso a run for his money, as an eye-opener for all the detractors calling him "rubbish" and for all those that refuse to see the possibility that Webber isn't rubbish but that Vettel has uncannily developed as a racer and learned his lessons from every single mistake he made (that's one of the secrets of his success), making it so hard to beat him.

He can only give Alonso a run for his money in much better cars, so how would be do it in equal cars? He barely beat him in 2011 with a monumental car advantage. Stop trying to be funny. Ferrari can do much better than that tired old journeyman.

[NotSoSilentBob]

If Rebull if they sign up such an old consistent under achiever up again it will confirm they are the most one man team in the sport and don't care about it.

...or it just might prove that they're happy with Webber's contribution to the team points-wise?

Quick enough to push Vettel, not quick enough to consistently beat him. Brings the car home in upper points-paying positions. Sure, he pisses Vettel off, but who cares if he's doing the job they ask of him most of the time?

I think it will be a big call to let Webber go at the start of a new set of regulations. Not a huge call, but something they'll clearly consider closely and if Webber gets on a run in the next few races that will make it even more difficult to cut him loose.

Of course, Webber might make the call himself and announce it independently of RBR.... just to piss 'em off in the PR department.

He can only give Alonso a run for his money in much better cars, so how would be do it in equal cars? He barely beat him in 2011 with a monumental car advantage.

I thought Webber's issues with the Pirellis and the off-throttle diffuser effect was well documented. Apparently not for you...

Stop trying to be funny. Ferrari can do much better than that tired old journeyman.

Yet they were ready to sign him up at this time last year.

Don't let your obvious vitriol towards Webber get in the way of the facts, will you.

Edited by NotSoSilentBob, 12 June 2013 - 10:25.

[V3TT3L]

He's off to Porsche WEC... It's a done deal!

James Foster ‏@Jimmyb_84 2m
seeing first official picture of Porsche LMP1 car! pic.twitter.com/ii6moSw7CG

Edited by V3TT3L, 12 June 2013 - 10:36.

[fullhouse]

...or it just might prove that they're happy with Webber's contribution to the team points-wise?

Quick enough to push Vettel, not quick enough to consistently beat him. Brings the car home in upper points-paying positions. Sure, he pisses Vettel off, but who cares if he's doing the job they ask of him most of the time?

I think it will be a big call to let Webber go at the start of a new set of regulations. Not a huge call, but something they'll clearly consider closely and if Webber gets on a run in the next few races that will make it even more difficult to cut him loose.

Of course, Webber might make the call himself and announce it independently of RBR.... just to piss 'em off in the PR department.

Barely good enough, and the team has missed out on countless wins and points because of his failures as a driver.

I thought Webber's issues with the Pirellis and the off-throttle diffuser effect was well documented. Apparently not for you...

Excuses. Off throttle effects have been reduced and he still is rubbish this year.

[nomi]

Webber would be getting more points than Massa for sure 100%, Massa is stale and needs replacing.

[Gilles4Ever]

...or it just might prove that they're happy with Webber's contribution to the team points-wise?

Quick enough to push Vettel, not quick enough to consistently beat him. Brings the car home in upper points-paying positions. Sure, he pisses Vettel off, but who cares if he's doing the job they ask of him most of the time?

I would like to see him leave RBR, I am not a fan of these perennial number 2 drivers that hog prime seats because they are "safe" points collectors. They are not WDC material really, only likely to be WDC if something happens to the team leader or they end up in one of those cars that any decent driver just has to be better than his team mate and the WDC is his. I would love to see these seats being used to give a youngster a real chance. Let's see what someone like Hulkeberg, JEV, Ricciardo or Bianchi , for example, can do in a really good car. (This goes for a team like Ferrari too)

[NotSoSilentBob]

or they end up in one of those cars that any decent driver just has to be better than his team mate and the WDC is his.

What, like Button?

[SgtPepperoni]

I wish Webber would join Ferrari and give Alonso a run for his money, as an eye-opener for all the detractors calling him "rubbish" and for all those that refuse to see the possibility that Webber isn't rubbish but that Vettel has uncannily developed as a racer and learned his lessons from every single mistake he made (that's one of the secrets of his success), making it so hard to beat him.

I totally agree with your assessment of Vettel, although I would like to see Mark retire gracefully and open up a seat to someone new. He's had a stellar career, but at his age nothing significant is likely to change. He was desperately unlucky to end up as Vettel's team mate during what was arguably the best period of his career, because Seb will go down as one of the best ever.
i

[goingthedistance]

I think he'll go to Porsche. Outside chance to Lotus if Kimi goes to Red Bull. Very outside chance he might pop up at McLaren if Button takes some time off as was rumoured.

But I don't see him staying at Red Bull.

[noikeee]

Pretty sure the most likely scenario now is that Kimi goes to Red Bull, and Webber to Porsche's LMP1 effort.

I'm slightly disappointed with Webber if that's the case because he's still fairly competitive, but he knows he'll soon be 37 and is already slightly past his peak. He is fed up with Red Bull's team politics (rightly or wrongly), and at his age may value being the lead driver of a new exciting project for a prestigious brand in a different category, over remaining as a #2 in a F1 top team for just a year or two, or going back to the F1 midfield. It makes sense.

[apoka]

If Rebull if they sign up such an old consistent under achiever up again it will confirm they are the most one man team in the sport and don't care about it. Hopefully they finally sign up a fresh good driver who might be able to beat Vettel, but they will probably just sign up Riccardo who is young enough to spend the next decade as his number 2.

Whom do you propose?

[ebc]

Webber is seriously underrated by many on this board, how can anyone call him a journeyman? Narain Karthikeyan would be an example of a journeyman, Webber has won 9 Grand Prix and fought for the world title, that is a great career in anyone's book.

Having said that I think that RedBull should sign Raikkonen if he is available as he would form a better working relationship with Vettel, though I don't necessarily think Kimi would do a better job than Webber, he is more consistent if not quite as fast over one lap.

Outside the big four of Alonso, Kimi, Vettel and Hamilton, I think Webber would be at least as good if not better than the rest. I think he looks worse in comparison with recent seasons because Vettel has improved so much whilst Mark as stayed at the same level.

I certainly don't think the Toro Rosso drivers could do as good a job and the likes of Hulkenberg are not exactly setting the world alight. Webber if you remember in his early years at Jaguar was the one people said they would love to see in a top team and that he deserved a top drive as he regularly pulled off some amazing qualifying results that helped him stand out from the crowd, none of the drivers in mid pack this season are doing anything to set them apart. Look at Bottas's 3rd on the grid in Montreal, Webber was pulling performances out like that quite often and I remember many people saying he was as good as Raikkonen, Alonso and Montoya, and he replaced the latter at Williams and that seemed to be his big break but Franks team were by that time on their way down.

I definitely think Mark could have been World Champion in the right circumstances, but just his bad luck that when he finally gets the car he also get a superstar team-mate.

[W154]

James Foster ‏@Jimmyb_84 2m
seeing first official picture of Porsche LMP1 car! pic.twitter.com/ii6moSw7CG

Well after seeing that he might go to Porsche looking for the trifecta.....flipped the Mercedes, flipped the Red Bull and flipped the Porsche.
My old bones tell me that he may end up at Williams, unfinished business there.

[GlenP]

I strongly disagree with those that ignorantly write-off Webber's entire career on "journeyman" grounds.

And I strongly disagree with anyone that says he is not worth having on the F1 grid - sportsmanship, professionalism and character are very much worth watching in my book, puls on his day he is amazing to watch, even these days.

However - even as a staunch supporter I would agree that it is time for him to move on - either to do what he can to help a team from lower down the grid (please Mark - go back to Williams!) or away from F1 and into another discipline.

[mymemoryfails]

It's a BIG if, but what if he wins the British GP ? Unlikely but not impossible. Is he washed up then? As far as I remember, nobody at all - no matter how good they are or aren't - has toppled Vettel for points last 3 (probably 4 now) years

I don't see a Vettel & Raikkonen partnership as naturally harmonious and effective. Just because "they are friends"? I, for one, am not buying it.

mymemoryfails

[GreenMachine]

My old bones tell me that he may end up at Williams, unfinished business there.

NNNOOOOoooooooooooooooo!

If he has unfinished business there, there is no chance it will get finished now or in the near future.

[apoka]

I think he has some options: RB, Lotus (replacing Grosjean), Ferrari (replacing Massa), a different series or retirement. Personally, I would like to see a change. A Hamilton-Rosberg pairing is much more interesting for viewers than what you have at the other 3 top teams where we rarely see surprises.

Last year, I thought it would make sense to go to Lotus - maybe that's still an option this year. It depends on whether he still has the energy for such a change and which other options Lotus has.

[Alfisti]

It's a conundrum for RBR 'cos as bad as Mark looks to be going he is still going way better than Massa or Grosjean, the other number 2 drivers. I think he is miles past his best TBH and it may be time to go but an offer from Ferrari for a year or two would be worth it, just to say you did it.

[fullhouse]

Webber is seriously underrated by many on this board, how can anyone call him a journeyman? Narain Karthikeyan would be an example of a journeyman, Webber has won 9 Grand Prix and fought for the world title, that is a great career in anyone's book.

Having said that I think that RedBull should sign Raikkonen if he is available as he would form a better working relationship with Vettel, though I don't necessarily think Kimi would do a better job than Webber, he is more consistent if not quite as fast over one lap.

Outside the big four of Alonso, Kimi, Vettel and Hamilton, I think Webber would be at least as good if not better than the rest. I think he looks worse in comparison with recent seasons because Vettel has improved so much whilst Mark as stayed at the same level.

I certainly don't think the Toro Rosso drivers could do as good a job and the likes of Hulkenberg are not exactly setting the world alight. Webber if you remember in his early years at Jaguar was the one people said they would love to see in a top team and that he deserved a top drive as he regularly pulled off some amazing qualifying results that helped him stand out from the crowd, none of the drivers in mid pack this season are doing anything to set them apart. Look at Bottas's 3rd on the grid in Montreal, Webber was pulling performances out like that quite often and I remember many people saying he was as good as Raikkonen, Alonso and Montoya, and he replaced the latter at Williams and that seemed to be his big break but Franks team were by that time on their way down.

I definitely think Mark could have been World Champion in the right circumstances, but just his bad luck that when he finally gets the car he also get a superstar team-mate.

How can Mark be staying on the same level at 37 when most drivers retire at that age? Of course he is declining. Webber is comparable to the Coulthards, Patrasies and Bergers of the past, which are considered journeymen, and has consistently under performed in the best cars for the last 4 years. Thats nothing to commend.

[Oho]

Webber is seriously underrated by many on this board, how can anyone call him a journeyman?

Fact of the matter is that when pegged against his illustrious team mate Mark Webber has underachieved big time. But then again Mika Häkkinen has been called a journeyman, in that sense I gather Webber is in good company.

[Oho]

I think he has some options: RB, Lotus (replacing Grosjean), Ferrari (replacing Massa), a different series or retirement. Personally, I would like to see a change. A Hamilton-Rosberg pairing is much more interesting for viewers than what you have at the other 3 top teams where we rarely see surprises.

Last year, I thought it would make sense to go to Lotus - maybe that's still an option this year. It depends on whether he still has the energy for such a change and which other options Lotus has.

Regardless of Grosjean I think it likelier Webber would replace Räikkönen. Two old farts in the same team? Oh well Ferrari is sort of pulling it off.

Edited by Oho, 12 June 2013 - 14:25.

[ebc]

How can Mark be staying on the same level at 37 when most drivers retire at that age? Of course he is declining. Webber is comparable to the Coulthards, Patrasies and Bergers of the past, which are considered journeymen, and has consistently under performed in the best cars for the last 4 years. Thats nothing to commend.

Just because others declined at his age doesn't mean he has. Webber is only 36 that is not that old, and I don't see any reason why he cannot perform at the same level as he did a few years ago.

journeyman * an athlete or professional sports player who is technically competent, but unable to excel or one who plays for many different teams over the course of a career

That doesn't describe Mark Webber to me as reaching F1 and winning races and challenging for the title means you have excelled in your career as a race car driver. There are tens of thousands of drivers out there who dream of F1, so to get there and be one of the few that have won numerous Grand Prix is something to commend. More people have been to space than won a grand prix, some people on this board seem to think its easy.

Fact of the matter is that when pegged against his illustrious team mate Mark Webber has underachieved big time. But then again Mika Häkkinen has been called a journeyman, in that sense I gather Webber is in good company.

I don't think he has underachieved for the ability he has got, only Alonso would get similar results to Vettel in that RedBull. Webbers problem is that so many people underestimate Vettel and by association him, when in fact Mark is doing a very good job better than anybody would excluding the top 4 drivers.

[fullhouse]

Just because others declined at his age doesn't mean he has. Webber is only 36 that is not that old, and I don't see any reason why he cannot perform at the same level as he did a few years ago.

Well unless Webber has visited a fountain of youth lately it does indeed mean he has declined because you can't resist father time, and his performances back that up.

journeyman * an athlete or professional sports player who is technically competent, but unable to excel or one who plays for many different teams over the course of a career

That doesn't describe Mark Webber to me as reaching F1 and winning races and challenging for the title means you have excelled in your career as a race car driver. There are tens of thousands of drivers out there who dream of F1, so to get there and be one of the few that have won numerous Grand Prix is something to commend. More people have been to space than won a grand prix, some people on this board seem to think its easy.

You seem unaware of the context of the term in F1 because Webber fits the mould perfect. He has just been flattered for sitting in the best car for 4 years something which only a handful of drivers have had the luxury of in history.

[GlenP]

I think the fact that the team with the best car have held on to him for so long, picking up Constructors' Championships along the way, speaks volumes of his quality.

There is a daft agenda in the running-down of Webber which blatantly has to do with suggesting that Vettel's only virtue is the good fortune to be in the Red Bull and a bit better than Webber - well that's nonsense quite frankly and I can't believe I'm even speaking of it.

[ebc]

Well unless Webber has visited a fountain of youth lately it does indeed mean he has declined because you can't resist father time, and his performances back that up.

36 is still young, he is not 50 there is no reason why he cannot operate at the same level. Most sportsmen retire in and around their mid 30s as there knees are giving up or they lack the agility they once had etc, In motorsport drivers can go on longer because it is a more skill based sport like golf were athletic ability is not as important.

You seem unaware of the context of the term in F1 because Webber fits the mould perfect. He has just been flattered for sitting in the best car for 4 years something which only a handful of drivers have had the luxury of in history.

The context of the term is the same everywhere, and Webber does not fit it at all. I don't believe it has been the fastest car for 4 years either, definitely not last year or this so only 2 years then 2010 and 2011. I also think Vettel has flattered the car and not the other way around, Webber is doing with it what most would struggle to do. And as I have said before perhaps only Alonso would get the kind of Results Vettel enjoys and Hamilton and Kimi are the only drivers I feel would better Webbers return.

[SpaMaster]

With Vettel signing up for the 2015 season at RBR, it definitely puts to bed the lengthy-though-inaccurate speculation that he was off to Ferrari for 2014, but it hadn't yet been announced.

So the focus now surely turns to what Webber's going to do next year.

My thoughts are that (despite his situation) he'd be most keen on re-signing with Red Bull, given that they probably give him the best shot at winning races, which surely is the best he can be hoping for at this stage of his career. If RBR are adamant they're going to change the driver mix, do you see Webber retiring or moving elsewhere? Ferrari? Lotus?

I think it is totally okay to have a thread that discusses about Webber's future. But I don't think Vettel's news shifts focus on Webber. Webber is not that comparable or importantly related to Vettel.

We heard some news about Le Mans or Supercup sometime back, no? I don't think he would drive for Lotus or Ferrari. It's probably Red Bull or retirement from F1.

[fastlegs]

Why would RedBull want to upset the applecart by getting rid of Webber?

1. He's no threat to Vettel.
2. He earns enough points during the season to help RedBull win the Constructors title.

I think RedBull is taking the same approach as Ferrari did with the selection of Michael Schumacher's teammates.

[handel]

I really like the guy and it would be ace if he won a title but a big part of me can't help but imagine if Vettel didn't exist for the past couple of years we'd have a very different opinion on RBR's domination/insistence that they have the best car. Irrespective of anything else that's got to weigh heavily on Mark.

I think it would be interesting for the fans at this point to see how Mark would react to another car and equally how Vettel would react to another team-mate! Just like Mark really did not get on with the off-throttle stuff he might absolutely love the new engines and if put in a competitive ride (Ferrari) he could still challenge for a WDC.

[Alfisti]

You can't challenge for a title if you only do well on traditional circuits and can't get your head around tilkedomes.

[sheepgobba]

I think it is totally okay to have a thread that discusses about Webber's future. But I don't think Vettel's news shifts focus on Webber. Webber is not that comparable or importantly related to Vettel.

We heard some news about Le Mans or Supercup sometime back, no? I don't think he would drive for Lotus or Ferrari. It's probably Red Bull or retirement from F1.

Yeah most likely retirement from F1. His recent interviews with Fernando somewhat allude to that factor he isn't really happy with the current state of F1 where it isn't as 'good' as previously due to the current tires.

Personally think 2013 is his final year in F1 and will mostly likely go to Porsche.

[Garagiste]

I wonder how many overpriced cans of unpleasant fizzy drinks you sell by winning the Monaco GP twice?

[redreni]

Yeah most likely retirement from F1. His recent interviews with Fernando somewhat allude to that factor he isn't really happy with the current state of F1 where it isn't as 'good' as previously due to the current tires.

Personally think 2013 is his final year in F1 and will mostly likely go to Porsche.

I agree, he's acheived all he's gonna in the feeder series (F1), time for a crack at the main game (WEC) while he's still young enough to have a good crack at it in the top class.

[Sakae]

I will miss karne refreshing reviews, after Webber moves away in 2014 from Vettel. There, I said that.

[OvDrone]

Anything but Red Bull, surely.
Please. I dreamed of that from late '10 onwards. He is no journeyman.Just as Coulthard, Berger and such, are no journeyman. That is an insult to their collective talent.

My first choice: Ferrari. Second: WEC with Porsche. Just pick one.

Edited by OvDrone, 12 June 2013 - 23:20.

[wattoroos]

I will miss karne refreshing reviews, after Webber moves away in 2014 from Vettel. There, I said that.

haha wont we all, I dont think he will continue, he didnt adapt well to the rule changes in 2011, and this will be even bigger, as much as I would hate to see it, I think he will retire from f1

[DILLIGAF]

It's hard to not like Webber, and I hope that he's not at Red Bull next year just to avoid further drama and fireworks. Plus it's clearly Vettel's team, in terms of who the team rallies behind more and just simply who is the better driver there. I think Mark could flourish at a team such as Force India or Lotus right now, and I'd love to see him at one of those teams for another year or two before he decides to finally throw in the towel.

+1

[Brother Fox]

re; Journeyman

You seem unaware of the context of the term in F1 because Webber fits the mould perfect. He has just been flattered for sitting in the best car for 4 years something which only a handful of drivers have had the luxury of in history.

It is you who are wrong. De la Rosa would be a journeyman, Massa/Webber are definetly not.


anyway, how is Vettel re-signing making RB less of an option for Webber?

[turssi]

Webber/RBR don't need to change a winning formula: they get WCC every year while Vettel takes the WDC!

RBR should bring in a younger driver only when it is necessary for long term development and when it guarantees the continuity in the WCC department.

Webber should change only if he gets a better environment considering both ambient and pay.

I say they'll keep the same setup barring a podium from one of the Toro Rosso kids.

[Sakae]

There is also possibility that Webber wants a change for sake of personal change. He is with this team quite a while, and maybe change of scenery might revitalize him. I can understand that. Most people tend to lean on perceived fractional relationship between two drivers, but I have seen Vettel in several interviews where he almost explicitly rejects how bad it is. If anything, can't be much worse than in any other team; inside rivalry is always there. Webber might stay, who knows, but might also retire from active racing, and do something else with Horner, opportunities' are there for him.

[wattoroos]

There is also possibility that Webber wants a change for sake of personal change. He is with this team quite a while, and maybe change of scenery might revitalize him. I can understand that. Most people tend to lean on perceived fractional relationship between two drivers, but I have seen Vettel in several interviews where he almost explicitly rejects how bad it is. If anything, can't be much worse than in any other team; inside rivalry is always there. Webber might stay, who knows, but might also retire from active racing, and do something else with Horner, opportunities' are there for him.

Yeah I agree, I dont think it is that bad, in that car and driver interview, the interviewer says something along the lines of there being a lot made of the rivalry to which Seb replies you mean a lot "made up". The media likes the idea of a fierce rivalry and when you stick a microphone in front of any athlete after an event, they will give you something that can be sensationalised, I wouldn't mind him switch teams but at Mark's age, he is not going to be there to much longer, which may deter some teams

[FPV GTHO]

I'd like to see Webber step aside for the sake of Ricciardo. I think if he does that he would surely be guranteed a drive at Lotus next year if he wanted it, as i dont see Grosjean being kept on unless theres no other option.