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Massaging the figures


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#1 Barry Boor

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 14:07

Someone on Facebook has drawn attention to the following website: Countries with the most Grand Prix drivers.

I guess it's an American site because, surprise, surprise, the U.S. has had more Grand Prix drivers than any other country.

Yeah, right, of course the have. There were all those guys who raced in the American Grand Prix from 1950 to 1959. What's that you say? There wasn't an American Grand Prix until 1959. That's what I thought but apparently we're wrong.

Including all the Indy drivers as Grand Prix drivers is just wrong. Were they included in the World Championship? Yes. Were they GRAND PRIX drivers? I think not.

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#2 Collombin

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 14:14

It calls them Formula 1 drivers, which is even worse.

Playing devil's advocate, many of the competing entries at Indy in 1950-53 were F1 legal I suppose, the odd Novi or 6.6 litre turbocharged diesel excepted.


#3 kayemod

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 14:46

I guess it's an American site because, surprise, surprise, the U.S. has had more Grand Prix drivers than any other country.


...most of whom had also become famous for capturing an Enigma machine.


#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 14:53

Pah! Can't even spell Liechtenstein ...

#5 Michael Ferner

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 15:19

Yet, nobody complains when Jimmy Clark is listed with 25 Grand Prix wins, or Stirling Moss with 16...

#6 Tom Glowacki

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 15:22

...most of whom had also become famous for capturing an Enigma machine.



Actually, Robert Kubica stole the Enigma.

#7 Collombin

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 15:28

Actually, Robert Kubica stole the Enigma.


No more incorrect than saying Patrese came close to winning the championship.


#8 D-Type

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 16:17

Actually, Robert Kubica stole the Enigma.


But the British didn't trust him and the other Poles and insisted on cracking Enigma for themselves. The other question is: did they give the results to the US or did they sell them?

#9 kayemod

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 17:10

Yet, nobody complains when Jimmy Clark is listed with 25 Grand Prix wins, or Stirling Moss with 16...



If we're counting Indianapolis 65, make that 26.

#10 Rob G

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 17:48

Someone on Facebook has drawn attention to the following website: Countries with the most Grand Prix drivers.

I guess it's an American site because, surprise, surprise, the U.S. has had more Grand Prix drivers than any other country.

Yeah, right, of course the have. There were all those guys who raced in the American Grand Prix from 1950 to 1959. What's that you say? There wasn't an American Grand Prix until 1959. That's what I thought but apparently we're wrong.

Including all the Indy drivers as Grand Prix drivers is just wrong. Were they included in the World Championship? Yes. Were they GRAND PRIX drivers? I think not.

The person who wrote the article is Romanian, not American. So you probably shouldn't automatically point your finger westward whenever something stupid like this article comes up.

#11 Barry Boor

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 17:50

Well, if it's posted on a British website, I'm disgusted that they just blindly put this info out there.

#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 18:03

Originally posted by kayemod
If we're counting Indianapolis 65, make that 26.


But surely it's only drivers from when the Indy 500 was a World Championship race?

Which ended, if I recall correctly, in 1960...

#13 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 18:18

Well, if it's posted on a British website, I'm disgusted that they just blindly put this info out there.


This is always the best approach to correcting errors. Vilification. Particularly if you can do it on national lines.

Which I've found the Brits are very good at.  ;)

#14 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 18:22

Actually, you should blame Forix for this one, he seems to have based it on their figures.

So they list Brazil as having had 31 F1/GP/Whatever drivers. Among those 31 is Luis Razia who took part in two Friday practice sessions during the era when 'third drivers' were permitted.

#15 D-Type

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 18:26

It's all part of the "Formula 1 World Championship" history rewrite which goes something like this:

Formula 1 began in 1951
In 1952 and 1953 Formula 2 became 'honorary' Formula 1
From 1951 to 1960 the Indianapolis International Sweepstakes was an 'honorary' Formula 1 race
World Championship qualifying race = Formula 1 race = Grand Prix = Grande Epreuve
Any race for cars complying with the current Formula 1 but not qualifying for the World Championship was an 'unofficial' Formula 1 race
The term "Formula 1" has always been trade marked
etc

#16 Bloggsworth

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 18:34

They merely have to change the heading to "drivers participating in a World Championship race" then the point is unarguably correct. Interestingly, were the situation to be resurrected it would be untrue, as for many years now the field for the Indy 500 has been very un-American... Either way, it's not worth getting upset about.

#17 Barry Boor

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 18:39

True, Bloggs, but you know how these things on the internet tend to become accepted as accurate eventually - and that does upset me.

But then, in 50 years time who will care anyway?

#18 Sharman

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 18:50

True, Bloggs, but you know how these things on the internet tend to become accepted as accurate eventually - and that does upset me.

But then, in 50 years time who will care anyway?

My grandchildren I hope Barry :wave:


#19 Barry Boor

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 18:58

I hope too, but I seriously doubt it.

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#20 Tom Glowacki

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 19:06

But the British didn't trust him and the other Poles and insisted on cracking Enigma for themselves. The other question is: did they give the results to the US or did they sell them?



They trusted him enough to make him C.O. of 303 Squadron.

#21 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 19:26

The Indy 500 is less American these days but it's also very much less a world championship points event.

#22 kayemod

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 19:28

But surely it's only drivers from when the Indy 500 was a World Championship race?

Which ended, if I recall correctly, in 1960...


That's true of course, but given the original post, this isn't a thread about factual accuracy.


#23 nexfast

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 20:53

That's true of course, but given the original post, this isn't a thread about factual accuracy.

Their accuracy in maths can be exemplified by this delightful sentence: "The best Swiss driver in history is Clay Regazzoni, who won three races between 1970 and 1979, four of which for Ferrari"

#24 Doug Nye

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 21:02

Their accuracy in maths can be exemplified by this delightful sentence: "The best Swiss driver in history is Clay Regazzoni...


Hmm - in a convoluted kind of manner, Rudi Caracciola suddenly springs to mind...  ;)

DCN

#25 Barry Boor

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 21:03

Regga better than Siffert? Ooops, here we go......


#26 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:14

I think he's trying to say most successful.