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How do you assess Mercedes's penalty?


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415 replies to this topic

Poll: What do you think of the outcome? (391 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think of the outcome?

  1. It is fair (158 votes [40.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.41%

  2. Their points should have been duducted (84 votes [21.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.48%

  3. They should have been banished from this year (34 votes [8.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  4. FIA should have let the rivals have a test session (73 votes [18.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.67%

  5. FIA should have imposed a deterrent fine (42 votes [10.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.74%

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#401 Lelouch

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 18:29

I'd say certainly say they are insulting the intelligence of everyone when they say they didn't learn anything about their car from this test.

Frankly, that seems to be the case with most of the statements of team managers/members whenever there is controversy.

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#402 study

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 18:39

If next months test is changed to a full blown tyre test does that Mean Merc are allowed to join, as they are only banned from the YDT, not a full test.

#403 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 22:11

Yeah it is pretty pathetic. The thing is, I like Merc and its drivers and was looking forward to their finding success - but not through contravention of the regulations (i.e. cheating). It just taints the entirety of their program.


The test was a spectacular success when the results are reviewed. In the three races prior to the test - 35 points. In the three races since the test - 99 points. A potential net benefit of 64 points and two places gained in the wcc. Getting away with this gifted test is paying huge dividends for Mercedes.

#404 Nomore

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 22:20

The test was a spectacular success when the results are reviewed. In the three races prior to the test - 35 points. In the three races since the test - 99 points. A potential net benefit of 64 points and two places gained in the wcc. Getting away with this gifted test is paying huge dividends for Mercedes.


It's called cheating

#405 redreni

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 22:26

If next months test is changed to a full blown tyre test does that Mean Merc are allowed to join, as they are only banned from the YDT, not a full test.


The tribunal decision bans them from the "young driver test". "Young driver test" is defined in the regulations. If the regulations were amended so that race drivers can drive in the young driver test, then you could have a tyre test with race drivers, call it the "young driver test", and Mercedes would still be banned from it. But it needs a regulation change, so either the FIA has to rule it's a safety-related change and impose it without agreement, or Stefano and Christian have an awkward phone call to make to Ross to ask him to show them a very considerable amount of goodwill....

#406 Shambolic

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 22:48

It's highly coincidental that pre test Mercedes had one lap pace but terrible race pace due to tyre management, and post test they have one lap pace and also good race pace thanks to, it appears, massively improved tyre management. Yet people still seem to be denying this, and trying to paint Mercedes as the victim somehow (whilst trying to drag Ferrari into the argument in a "Well, they did it too, so to wrongs, even when one of the wrongs isn't wrong, make a right.."). Which has me curious - Would people be trying to absolve Mercedes of any guilt if Hamilton was still at McLaren, and Schumacher was still driving the Mercedes?

#407 P123

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 22:56

It's highly coincidental that pre test Mercedes had one lap pace but terrible race pace due to tyre management, and post test they have one lap pace and also good race pace thanks to, it appears, massively improved tyre management.


They had terrible race pace in one race- Barcelona. It was an anomaly of a race, a race that was so bad for them it would be impossible not to improve on. If you had watched the prior races you would have seen Hamilton come through from 13th to 5th place in Bahrain, passing a Red Bull in the final laps; Hamilton finishing 3rd in China; and the Mercedes battling the Red Bull's in Malaysia until a fuel issue intervened. That doesn't happen if you have terrible race pace. A huge step was not required- clearly it is a very quick car. We've also not seen any more 4 stop races since Barcelona due to more conservative tyre choices from Pirelli, so that will help Mercedes avoid any scenarios such as Spain, and to a lesser extent Bahrain.

#408 heineken2008

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 23:00

Well, I tell you what . . from what LH has said to the press - Merc did know what tyres they were testing

So, yes, the FIA got it completely wrong - although I didnt for a minute believe that it was as innocent as Merc made it out to be

LH: "We had that tyre test to develop and improve the tyres to stop that from happening and after that tyre test they didn't do anything"

#409 One

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 23:09

It's called cheating


Got to say these.

1. FIA were silly even to spell a sentence out to Mercedes that FIA may agree to let 2013 car run if Pirelli is conducting the testing. This was out of order.
2. Ross took his chance in letting FIA sell out this sentence by carefully selecting his wording of his question. Ross plotted out all process and excuses to win this situation. He took his risks and said he is fully responsible.

I am not a Ross fan, neither Michael's. I say Ross is the guy. He is the smartest. He is very brave as well. I think that Ross deserves this moment of success for coming a few races. I am convinced that the likes of Ferrari or Red Bull will not allow Mercedes to run away.


#410 P123

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 23:37

Well, I tell you what . . from what LH has said to the press - Merc did know what tyres they were testing


You're a few weeks behind: Rosberg on tyre test

#411 drag

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:54

How they got away with no penalty for test in which clearly they break the rules and they done it in very secret manner is beyond thinkable ,there are no other words to explain it was unsporting and cheat .....big blow for this year championship.

#412 ardbeg

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:51

How they got away with no penalty for test in which clearly they break the rules and they done it in very secret manner is beyond thinkable ,there are no other words to explain it was unsporting and cheat .....big blow for this year championship.

I guess you didn't follow that story in great detail and you are not familiar with how things are done in F1? Not only in F1, it applies to all areas where there is competition and money involved. That some of the behind-the-scenes events leaks out is not a blow, it is just good that more people are getting educated in whats going on out there, out there in the real world outside the television.

#413 Szoelloe

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:05

Well, I tell you what . . from what LH has said to the press - Merc did know what tyres they were testing

So, yes, the FIA got it completely wrong - although I didnt for a minute believe that it was as innocent as Merc made it out to be

LH: "We had that tyre test to develop and improve the tyres to stop that from happening and after that tyre test they didn't do anything"


wrong. But just to save pointless posts, we can agree to disagree.


#414 Ricardo F1

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 15:59

The test was a spectacular success when the results are reviewed. In the three races prior to the test - 35 points. In the three races since the test - 99 points. A potential net benefit of 64 points and two places gained in the wcc. Getting away with this gifted test is paying huge dividends for Mercedes.

Talk about selective data . . . :lol:

So you're saying not only did they mostly run on 2014 rubber, only trying the 2013 Kevlar band for a piece of time . . but they did this at a Pirelli event where they couldn't test any upgrades and suddenly they found out exactly what was wrong with the car AND managed to fix that overnight. Monaco was next up - and Mercedes had been easily quickest over a single lap for some time - so nobody was shocked when Vettel couldn't get past Rosberg. Canada was next and oh look, Mercedes still not on top of their tyre problems. Silverstone - definitely better. But none of this could possibly be from the reams of data collected on the 2013 car with the 2013 tyres that they've been pounding around for three days at a race weekend, no all of this improvement comes a 1000km test on which they mostly drove on 2014 tyres.

Do you realize how absurd that actually sounds?


#415 mey3059

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 16:12

In all this talk about testing there is one number I find intriguing ... 1000 Kms !

Mercedes, Pirelli all say they did 1000 kms as was allowed, I suppose we are to believe they calculated the number of laps that makes 1000 Kms and did exactly that ( nothing more nothing less ) :)

#416 surbjits

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 20:08

I found this whole thing hilarious, Brawn is a wiley ol' fox.