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Who will be granted the Red Bull seat?


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Poll: Who is in pole to take the vacant Red Bull seat? (752 member(s) have cast votes)

Who do you think will be Vettel's next teammate?

  1. Raikkonen (340 votes [53.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.21%

  2. Ricciardo (274 votes [42.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.88%

  3. Alonso (25 votes [3.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.91%

Vote

#51 mattferg

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:19

Vergne's a moderate driver at best. If the choice was on setup ability it would be Riciardo. I'm left wondering about the value of STR and the young driver program. It has failed to produce a single outstanding driver if you consider that Vetted was a BMW protege. The sooner Red Bull are forced to sell STR the better. That way Faenza can operate as a fully independent outfit.


Except Vettel wasn't, he was on loan to BMW-Sauber from Red Bull.

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#52 Zesus

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:25

I think it's in Kimi's hands now if he wants to drive for Red Bull next year. His words in today's interviews sounded more like farewell to Lotus.

#53 rasul

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:28

Why isn't Massa in that poll? :D

Speaking about his chances to stay in a Ferrari in 2014, Felipe said «In the next few months I will know what future awaits me. Of course, Red Bull Racing won the last three League titles, so that a free vacancy in this command is an interesting option. However, I have a good chance to continue a career in Ferrari».



#54 Oho

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:32

My guess is if Red Bull has genuine interest in Raikkonen and Lotus proves to be competitive to fight for championship all the way to the end this year, this decision is going to drag beyond the season end.


No kidding, like Räikkönen would pack the punch to hold RBR hostage, yeah right.

#55 seahawk

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:39

diResta, as the best driver in a midfield team, is the obvious choice.

#56 DrF

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:41

When does Vettel's contract end? He's not going to stay there forever.

#57 Dzeidzei

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:44

Given that Webbo has caused enough strife, two #1 drivers is exactly what they don't need.


Maybe they think that having #1 and #2 drivers has caused a lot of probs. Now we'll have two number ones.

Anyway this is all futile as the seat is Kimis already.

#58 RealRacing

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:47

Seeing that it's unlikely for RBR to buy someone out of their contract, shouldn't we focus on the drivers that would actually be available next year? I believe that discards Button and Hamilton for sure (not that Hamilton would have been a right fit had he been available anyway). Rosberg's contract at MErcedes is until the end of 2013 so he might be an option if he gets tired of Mercedes not delivering. Hulkenberg is an option too. What about Massa? Would definitely be time for a change for him. Sutil?

#59 MP422

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:49

I fig it was between JEV and DR... don't understand where Raikkonen would fit in.

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#60 SpaMaster

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:50

No kidding, like Räikkönen would pack the punch to hold RBR hostage, yeah right.

That is one way of looking at it. I certainly don't think of it as Raikkonen holding RBR hostage. I have already made it quite clear that I am not sure if Red Bull would go for a competitive top-drawer driver for the other seat. But we have seen the some of the driver vacancies have gone well past the season-end recently to get finalized. It is quite common these days for driver decision to be made at the season end, and why would Red Bull be in any hurry to fill their seat till they get whoever they want? Do you think driver market would become vacant with drivers filling up other seats when a Red Bull seat is available?

#61 scheivlak

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:55

Rosberg's contract at MErcedes is until the end of 2013 so he might be an option if he gets tired of Mercedes not delivering.

It is "for 2013 and beyond" http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96046

#62 Peter Perfect

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 17:59

Seeing that it's unlikely for RBR to buy someone out of their contract, shouldn't we focus on the drivers that would actually be available next year? I believe that discards Button and Hamilton for sure (not that Hamilton would have been a right fit had he been available anyway). Rosberg's contract at MErcedes is until the end of 2013 so he might be an option if he gets tired of Mercedes not delivering. Hulkenberg is an option too. What about Massa? Would definitely be time for a change for him. Sutil?

Correct.

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns25722.html

Horner said Jenson Button, who is just tenth in the drivers' championship this year at the wheel of McLaren's uncompetitive car, is not an option.

"Jenson's a class act, as a team player, a human being, a driver," he said.

"He's not on our radar because he's not available. He's married to the team that he's driving for."



#63 Sakae

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:01

One doesn't has to be genius to realize that RBR at the moment has leverage due to its competitiveness, and they can wait and choose among several drivers who might potentially agrre to a contract.

- Kimi
- STR drivers
- Hulk
- Koba
- Di Resta (my least fav. choice)
- Rosberg
- Massa
- and some others from the forgotten world of no names

At the end if Seb drives alone, he might rake enough points to get both titles on his own in both categories. :D

Edited by Sakae, 27 June 2013 - 18:02.


#64 bsrf1

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:08

I think kimi is in the state of heart vs mind. He knows and stated many times he would not be in F1, if it is not from Lotus. And the relationship has been good and he is treated very well. The only problem is with the car not being competitive enough for the championship over a season. He knows that team got the name because of him but ROI is not at the expected level, though it is not is his mistake. He still in dilemma whether to support them further. From his age perspective, he would not be here in F1 come 2017. This is kind of last chance for him and could be his last switch.

My point is that he will be with RBR is he chooses so.

Edited by bsrf1, 27 June 2013 - 18:09.


#65 SpaMaster

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:14

One doesn't has to be genius to realize that RBR at the moment has leverage due to its competitiveness, and they can wait and choose among several drivers who might potentially agrre to a contract.

- Kimi
- STR drivers
- Hulk
- Koba
- Di Resta (my least fav. choice)
- Rosberg
- Massa
- and some others from the forgotten world of no names

At the end if Seb drives alone, he might rake enough points to get both titles on his own in both categories. :D

Non-sense, Red Bull will certainly not win WCC. You are under-estimating how much of a contribution Webber has made to Red Bull over the years. He is the perfect no.2 driver. He may bark all he want, but he certainly gave the best possible punch for the team overall. He was made to believe he had the freedom to fight for himself all he wants. This gave the best possible confidence for a second driver and brought out the best in him. Every WCC Red Bull has won - it owes a lot to Webber. If a driver like Massa had driven for them, they may not have won those WCCs. So, it is ignorant to say Vettel would win both titles by himself.

#66 apoka

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:14

When does Vettel's contract end? He's not going to stay there forever.

2015

#67 Oho

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:15

It is quite common these days for driver decision to be made at the season end.



Is it really, announcements are one thing signing the dotted line quite another. Being mere spectators I think neither one of us is in particularly good positions to say when deals are struck especially when the team is on the lookout for salaried rather than pay driver to fix team finances. Actually the only genuinely late deal for a plum seat I recall from last few years is Räikkönen to Lotus.

#68 charly0418

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:16

We all know its Kimi


Lets make a poll of who will be Lotus 2 drivers next year, that would be more interesting

#69 RealRacing

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:19

It is "for 2013 and beyond" http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96046


I wonder what the "beyond" entails and if there's some kind of performance clause. If I did have one and a RBR seat became available, I'd be ringing my lawyer at least...But yeah, it makes it unlikely.


#70 Sin

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:22

I hope Nico Hülkenberg.... I think if not Kimi than Ricciardo... even tho I would rather have Ricciardo than Kimi

#71 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:23

I have been wrong before, so can easily see that I am here as well. But really do not understand the various names thrown around for the second seat at Red Bull.

Kimi Raikkonen - I can not see this making any sense for Red Bull, it is the best way to make the internal strife in the team worse than it already is and I see no possible upside to such a deal.
Lewis Hamilton - Partly same argument as for Kimi, will make zero sense for Lewis and I can see no upside for Red Bull.
Jenson Button - A clear number 2 driver, who does not seem himself as such all which could come from such a move would be Jenson being exposed even more than he have already been.
Nico Hulkeneberg - I think highly of him, and I think that he is on the Ferrari radar as a possible Massa replacement, however would not be until 2015 I think.
Di Resta - Would be a clear downgrade from Webber, can not see any reason for Red Bull to pursue him.

Seriously can not see it be between other than Ricciardo or Vergne.

:cool:

#72 SpaMaster

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:28

Is it really, announcements are one thing signing the dotted line quite another.

Do we know the difference between the two either way?

Being mere spectators I think neither one of us is in particularly good positions to say when deals are struck especially when the team is on the lookout for salaried rather than pay driver to fix team finances. Actually the only genuinely late deal for a plum seat I recall from last few years is Räikkönen to Lotus.

Button is another example. Schumacher signing that caused such a splash on to a WCC winning future-Mercedes was also late. Many other seats also get filled late. To me, announcement and real signing are the same, the time we get to know is all that matters really.

#73 redreni

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:44

This question is not particularly aimed only at you. It made me wonder. When is the last time teammates lost WDC because they took points of each other? One could say 2007, but even that I would say it was more of a case of off-track squables rather than taking points off each other on track. Massa and Raikkonen themselves were competing against each other until the last few races. Even then 2007 seems to be the only year in a long span. When was the last time and how frequently did it use to happen even in the olden days? I agree that teams are very wary of this. But, come to think of it, it is more to do with team harmony and heirarcy, less confusion and tension and making things simple and easier to manage. I expect Red Bull to be no different to this. McLaren is the only team that have followed the other philosophy for a long period of time, and, surprisingly they have good records to show for it!


It‘s not just about whether you operate a clear 1-2 policy, its about whether you select drivers who are going to perform at a roughly equal level. Mclaren unwittingly did so in 2007 (I say unwittingly because they can‘t have imagined Hamilton would do as well as he did) and they got mugged for the title. In 2008 they intentionally signed someone who wasn‘t at Hamilton‘s level and hey presto, Hamilton won the title, beating Ferrari‘s roughly equally matched pair. This happens all the time. There are exceptions, like Alonso‘s defeat to Vettel in 2010 when Red Bull had the more evenly matched drivers, but even then Red Bull had much the faster car and still only won the title due to a blunder by Ferrari, otherwise Alonso would have come through the middle to pinch it.

There is a balance, though. Ideally you want a second driver good enough to come second when your first driver wins, thus taking points off your rivals. That‘s why Massa‘s gonna be out on his ear.

#74 undersquare

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 18:45

I reckon Ricciardo. Kimi would end up punching Sebi in the face and Hulk and Di Resta are too feisty as well.

#75 metz

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:00

:smoking:

I reckon Ricciardo. Kimi would end up punching Sebi in the face and Hulk and Di Resta are too feisty as well.

You are confused with Sutil.

#76 williams96

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:04

If they don't announce a driver soon then I'd be more hopeful that one of the two STR drivers will get a chance. Problem is up until a few race weekends ago Ricciardo was the more obvious choice out of the two. After a couple of bad weekends and a few good performances from Vergne it will be a much more difficult decision.

I hope a 'young' driver gets a shot.

#77 Buttoneer

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:07

Buttoneer=wizard. :p

It's my troll account.

#78 aramir11

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:13

Juan Pablo Montoya :eek:

#79 RealRacing

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:15

Juan Pablo Montoya :eek:


Sebastien Loeb. Speaking of which, where can I watch WTCC outside of Europe, FOX, ESPN?

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#80 apoka

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:16

Kimi Raikkonen - I can not see this making any sense for Red Bull, it is the best way to make the internal strife in the team worse than it already is and I see no possible upside to such a deal.

Just to point out the obvious: The upside could be that RB thinks Kimi gets more points than the TR drivers.


#81 Longtimefan

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:19

Play #2? As in Red Bull offering him to "joing us for fun, win some races, be careful not to beat Vettel"?
Yeah, right.


Yeah you got it.. just like Mark atm although they don't really need to tell him to slow down, simply knobbling his kers usually works ;)


#82 discover23

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:20

Juan Pablo Montoya :eek:

lol.. I hear he may be looking for a ride for next year.

#83 undersquare

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:21

:smoking:
You are confused with Sutil.

Hmmm, now you mention it I don't think any of the other German drivers would be a safe choice...

Personally I'd replace Sebi with Kimi, win championships and sell a lot more fizzy drinks, but that's just me.

#84 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:22

Juan Pablo Montoya :eek:

Barrichello is also waiting at the phone, as we speak :D .

Di Resta - Would be a clear downgrade from Webber, can not see any reason for Red Bull to pursue him.

Would he really be such a downgrade though? He might not be one of the fastest drivers, but di Resta regularly score points and finishes races without trouble. He's one of the cleanest racers on the grid and can overtake, like at Monaco this year, when he isn't on long-stint strategies.

I'm not sure whether the Toro Rosso drivers should be promoted, as on the outside it looks like there's not much difference between them and they haven't done a great deal to warrant a move to a top team, imo.

#85 Sakae

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:25

Non-sense, Red Bull will certainly not win WCC. You are under-estimating how much of a contribution Webber has made to Red Bull over the years. He is the perfect no.2 driver. He may bark all he want, but he certainly gave the best possible punch for the team overall. He was made to believe he had the freedom to fight for himself all he wants. This gave the best possible confidence for a second driver and brought out the best in him. Every WCC Red Bull has won - it owes a lot to Webber. If a driver like Massa had driven for them, they may not have won those WCCs. So, it is ignorant to say Vettel would win both titles by himself.

You take me far too seriously on my day off. :)

#86 discover23

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:26

The obvious is Kimi but I don't think RB and Vettel want that.. and maybe Kimi would also have second thoughts about joining Vettel's team. So I would say that it is very likely that one of the TR drivers gets the 2nd seat. Getting someone else would mean that their young driver development program sucks so why the hell are they still backing Toro Rosso..

Edited by discover23, 27 June 2013 - 19:27.


#87 Juan Kerr

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:36

If Vettel beats Kimi:

Vettel haters/Hamilton+Alonso fans: "Well Kimi was shit anyways he got beaten by Massa"

you forget, circumstances are the only reason these days why driver A beats driver B

#88 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:39

Just to point out the obvious: The upside could be that RB thinks Kimi gets more points than the TR drivers.


If they think so then their junior program have delivered a lot less than it should have, I understand that Raikkonen is a strong driver I just do not see him joining Red Bull having an upside for Red Bull.

:cool:


#89 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:40

Barrichello is also waiting at the phone, as we speak :D .


Would he really be such a downgrade though? He might not be one of the fastest drivers, but di Resta regularly score points and finishes races without trouble. He's one of the cleanest racers on the grid and can overtake, like at Monaco this year, when he isn't on long-stint strategies.

I'm not sure whether the Toro Rosso drivers should be promoted, as on the outside it looks like there's not much difference between them and they haven't done a great deal to warrant a move to a top team, imo.


I personally do not see Di Resta as anything for a top team to place any faith in.

:cool:


#90 Zyzzx

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:50

Voted Other.

Anyone think Kubica? Or maybe a 1 year Jr driver deal and then Kubica.


#91 autosportfan

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:53

I personally do not see Di Resta as anything for a top team to place any faith in.

:cool:


Agree, we will never see Di Resta in any of the top teams. He is an average driver and is as marketable as a visit to dentist. When he is interviewed on tv I need to either switch channels or fast forward ....










#92 Vesuvius

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:53

Voted Other.

Anyone think Kubica? Or maybe a 1 year Jr driver deal and then Kubica.


There is a bigger chance to win a lots of money in lottery.

#93 TFLB

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:54

Vergne. The better of the two STR drivers. Regarding other options - Raikkonen is not young any more, and his motivation is questionable. Hulkenberg and Di Resta are massively overrated and are only good for the midfield. Plus Red Bull would look rather silly not promoting from their junior team.

#94 TFLB

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 19:55

Voted Other.

Anyone think Kubica? Or maybe a 1 year Jr driver deal and then Kubica.

Kubica unfortunately is never going to return to F1. Didn't he say something along those lines himself recently?

#95 BenettonB192

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 20:00

I think one of the STR drivers will be promoted.
Kimi would be cool but he seems happy at Lotus.
Hulk would be my pick if i was in charge but i doubt Red Bull wants two Germans in their team, for marketing reasons alone.
Maybe Button? He seems at home at McLaren but with the rule changes coming and the team switching to Honda engines in 2015 they could have a success drought for a couple years before everything is starting to come together. Perhaps he would rather spent the last stint of his career in a more promising looking top team. I actualy think he would make a lot of sense for RBR. He's experienced, he's fast but not too fast, not a big drama queen as far as team internal politics goes. I've read Horner's comments but crazier things have happend so wouldn't rule it out.

#96 Cyanide

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 20:01

The deal with Raikkonen is probably already on the table, many pundits are reporting it and Red Bull admit they want him, so I don't understand why people are dismissing the story when they know squat. A lot of experts around here.

If Red Bull cared about internal harmony, they would have kicked out Webber a long time ago and employed any of the TR guys. This is not about internal atmosphere, this is about having two competitive drivers scoring as many points as possible. And hiring one from the sister team won't accomplish anything, no matter how good they show they are right now.

With so many uncertainties in the new turbo engine era, they need a consistent and reliable driver. I don't recall Vergne or Ricciardo being any of the two.

@Edit: Also, LOL at the guy questioning Kimi's motivation (AGAIN). You really want to go there?

Edited by Cyanide, 27 June 2013 - 20:06.


#97 brr

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 20:01

Plus Red Bull would look rather silly not promoting from their junior team.


They would look much sillier choosing a mediocre driver over a good one.





#98 Vesuvius

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 20:06

Vergne. The better of the two STR drivers. Regarding other options - Raikkonen is not young any more, and his motivation is questionable. Hulkenberg and Di Resta are massively overrated and are only good for the midfield. Plus Red Bull would look rather silly not promoting from their junior team.


Yes he is not young anymore but in no means old either, he still has few years left. The second part about questionable motivation?....seriously how can anyone still have any doubts whatsoever about his motivation :mad:

#99 Zyzzx

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 20:08

Kubica unfortunately is never going to return to F1. Didn't he say something along those lines himself recently?


Don't get me wrong. Im not trying to White Knight for him. Was just tossing him out into the mix. He would be highly motivated and a good PR move for Red Bull.

Also, didn't he do some Sim tests recently in secret and then recently said he didnt think he could do them (ie in secret) anymore? But I also could be mistaken.

edit: wanted to add how great it would be if it was say Kimi and then Red Bull puts out an Ox Cart of an car next year and Lotus pulls a Brawn with the new investers.

Edited by Zyzzx, 27 June 2013 - 20:11.


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#100 Currahee

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 20:08

Agree, we will never see Di Resta in any of the top teams. He is an average driver and is as marketable as a visit to dentist. When he is interviewed on tv I need to either switch channels or fast forward ....


What has his personality got to do with anything?

He usually always brings the car home. Without incident too.

Funny how Force India have stated today that they'll not stand in di Restas way if a top team come calling.

Do they know something?