20 replies to this topic

[holiday]

The age of 37 seems pretty much the ceiling now, doesn't it? It is weird, but only very few drivers went past this age since the late 1990s: DH (horribly so), RB (solidly so), PDLR and MS, the latter two who returned from long spells of absence to racing being rather special cases.

From the top of mind top drivers who retired from f1 at 36-37: Alesi, Coulthard, Irvine, Frentzen, Trulli, Fisichella. Villeneuve, Heidfeld and Häkkinen even earlier. Now Webber.

Although every retirement scenario was unique, the f1 market seems to have settled down around this age as best before date, kind of comparable to the often cited threshold of 40 for the career of Hollywood actresses. Why is this so? Fitness freaks like Trulli, Schumacher and Webber, for example, were/are probably still fitter at this age than their average f1 competitor.

Edited by holiday, 27 June 2013 - 14:35.

[TheMidnight]

The age of 37 seems pretty much the ceiling now, doesn't it? It is weird, but only very few drivers went past this age since the late 1990s: DH (horribly so), RB (solidly so), PDLR and MS, the latter two who returned from long spells of absence to racing being rather special cases.

From the top of mind top drivers who retired at 36-37: Alesi, Coulthard, Irvine, Frentzen, Trulli, Fisichella. Villeneuve, Heidfeld and Häkkinen even earlier. Now Webber.

Although every retirement scenario was unique, the market seems to have settled down around this age as best before date, kind of comparable to the often cited threshold of 40 for the career of Hollywood actresses. Why is this so? Fitness freaks like Trulli, Schumacher and Webber, for example, were/are probably still fitter at this age than their average f1 competitor.

It's an extension of real life, look around in the media etc....it's mainly targetted at young people, I suspect the 'young is fresh' mantra does ring true in F1 and perhaps skews thinking.

There are reductions in reaction speed (how relevant a few 100th's is I don't know) and maybe there is an insurmountable barrier you hit mid thirties irrespective of fitness.

Edited by Elissa, 27 June 2013 - 14:32.

[Ross Stonefeld]

You retire when you stop competing, not when you leave F1.

Schumacher retired(twice), Heidfeld has not.

[Cool Beans]

There are reductions in reaction speed (how relevant a few 100th's is I don't know) and maybe there is an insurmountable barrier you hit mid thirties irrespective of fitness.

Looking at wheel to wheel battles it seems to go in the opposite direction between the current leaders and the GP2 generation.

[apoka]

I don't have the impression that the field gets considerably younger. After MS, Rubens and Webber retired, this may seem to be the case, but does not necessarily need to be the case in the long run. In particular, it doesn't look like there are many young drivers pushing at the moment. You could say that we are both lacking old and young drivers.

[ardbeg]

They start younger. At 37, most of them have been racing for 30 years. If things then start to go backwards I guess motivation fades quickly. Note that going backwards is a relative term, they might be just as good as when they were 25, but the young guns keep getting better. I doubt very much that Fangio had someone teaching him about apex, slow in/fast out and trailbraking when he was a toddler.

Edited by ardbeg, 27 June 2013 - 14:45.

[undersquare]

The biggest difference I notice is that they start to make more mistakes, gradually creeping up after around 33/34.

[Xpat]

Is the mistake curve a bell curve?

[pingu666]

that happened with dc, could be happening to mark martin too :\
I think in f1 its really obivous normaly if a driver loses interest and desire, and theres probably the aculilated effect of pressure since say 10 years old, or earlier. must be some level of mental exhaustion i guess

[ardbeg]

that happened with dc, could be happening to mark martin too :\
I think in f1 its really obivous normaly if a driver loses interest and desire, and theres probably the aculilated effect of pressure since say 10 years old, or earlier. must be some level of mental exhaustion i guess

I think in general, the wish to win, to impress, dampens with age. Specially if have had success and have nothing more to prove. Competition nowadays is also a lot harder than 40 years ago and experience does not give a seasoned driver much advantage since he is radio controlled.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think it's more to do with years in racing than actual age.

[Tenmantaylor]

The further you go past the age of the average champion you are less and less likely to compete. Simple as. In top level sports for most people 35 is a pretty common boundary. There are some notable exceptions but not many.

[undersquare]

Is the mistake curve a bell curve?

Hmm, I dunno. They can carry on in less intensive series can't they? Sportscars and tintops. What age is Tarquini!! So my instinct would be not. Looking at reaction time the slope is not too far off linear after about 20, up to around 60.

[Alfisti]

I think it's more to do with years in racing than actual age.

I don't think so. I don't care WHO you are, once you hit 25 your body starts to regress. Other than sports that are EXTREMELY stop/start in nature or have very small time "on the field" (think ice hockey) you barely see anyone head into their 40's. You just can't compete with men half your age.

[DS27]

I think it's more to do with years in racing than actual age.

This makes no sense to me, and Damon started (very) late, but still lost it in a big way.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I don't think so. I don't care WHO you are, once you hit 25 your body starts to regress. Other than sports that are EXTREMELY stop/start in nature or have very small time "on the field" (think ice hockey) you barely see anyone head into their 40's. You just can't compete with men half your age.

This isn't a physically high intensity sport. It's more mentally stressful. So I think after a long time at the top you get tired mentally. Damon Hill has a relatively short F1 career but he packed a lot into it. He didn't get slow one day, he stopped wanting to go fast.

Which is why you often see guys get their second wind if they go off and do somethin else. Yeah other series aren't as competitive as F1, but they aren't as stressful either.

[Winter98]

Is the mistake curve a bell curve?

As someone who is on the wrong side of 50, I can attest from personal experience: The body only goes downhill.

[Winter98]

This isn't a physically high intensity sport. It's more mentally stressful. So I think after a long time at the top you get tired mentally. Damon Hill has a relatively short F1 career but he packed a lot into it. He didn't get slow one day, he stopped wanting to go fast.

Which is why you often see guys get their second wind if they go off and do somethin else. Yeah other series aren't as competitive as F1, but they aren't as stressful either.

I agree the mental side is huge in F1, but so is the physical side.

In order to be competitive, a driver has to be in top shape, because the top drivers are separated from the "wannabes" (still great drivers in their own right), by fractions of a percent. It would be extremely rare, maybe impossible, to find someone so naturally gifted that they could overcome other naturally gifted drivers and overcome a lack of physical fitness at the same time.

[artista]

I think it's more to do with years in racing than actual age.

This isn't a physically high intensity sport. It's more mentally stressful. So I think after a long time at the top you get tired mentally. Damon Hill has a relatively short F1 career but he packed a lot into it. He didn't get slow one day, he stopped wanting to go fast.

Which is why you often see guys get their second wind if they go off and do somethin else. Yeah other series aren't as competitive as F1, but they aren't as stressful either.

I agree with that.
I know it might look totally unconnected in a motorsport forum, but I think it's interesting to look to what has happened in gymnastics in the last 30-40 years. First, the gymnasts arrived to the high competition younger and younger and they begun to retire younger and younger. A few Olympic cycles ago, the minimum age changed and now they arrive to the high competition at the ages they were retiring 25 years ago and they retire when they are much older. What has remained constant is the number of years they compete, or in other words, the number of years they can survive the mental stress.

I see something similar in F1: the younger they start, the younger they tend to retire.
Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, though.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I agree the mental side is huge in F1, but so is the physical side.

In order to be competitive, a driver has to be in top shape, because the top drivers are separated from the "wannabes" (still great drivers in their own right), by fractions of a percent. It would be extremely rare, maybe impossible, to find someone so naturally gifted that they could overcome other naturally gifted drivers and overcome a lack of physical fitness at the same time.

The physical demands or driving race cars are really overrated. It's much more than the non-racing world gives them credit for, but far less than the motorsport industry thinks it has.

[Collombin]

I know it might look totally unconnected in a motorsport forum, but I think it's interesting to look to what has happened in gymnastics in the last 30-40 years.

The same has happened in men's downhill ski racing. 26 used to be over the hill, nowadays some guys only start to peak in their mid 30s, which is astonishing for such a physical sport - certainly one more physically demanding than motor racing. Nothing to do with a rule change either - I just guess top sportsmen now have better training/diets etc that enable them to stay fitter for longer.