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#1 rd500

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 00:12

To be open i wouldnt be on this forum if you are passionate about grand prix/Championship racing.

i rarely come on here now, i remember the the outcry here when controlled 600cc 4 strokes only were going to replace open class up to 250cc open class prototype bikes and then after a few weeks they were all for them, buying intio Dornas "close racing for tv" dupe.

I once put a petition up on this site promoting open class racing in America but was trodden on barr a few guys who were really passionate about the sport.

If you are passionate about 2 strokes then this isnt the best place, believe me i have tried, you are well outnumbered.



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#2 Dewie

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 03:38

To be open i wouldnt be on this forum if you are passionate about grand prix/Championship racing.

i rarely come on here now, i remember the the outcry here when controlled 600cc 4 strokes only were going to replace open class up to 250cc open class prototype bikes and then after a few weeks they were all for them, buying intio Dornas "close racing for tv" dupe.

I once put a petition up on this site promoting open class racing in America but was trodden on barr a few guys who were really passionate about the sport.

If you are passionate about 2 strokes then this isnt the best place, believe me i have tried, you are well outnumbered.

Yes there was an outccy when the 600 controlled bikes were introduced BUT !!! they have produced fantastic racing to date you would have to agree.
I have raced with both 2 & 4 stroke engines in both solo and sidecars, I do not think it matters what power plant you run as long as you are racing and better still wining :kiss:

#3 GD66

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:00

If you are passionate about 2 strokes then this isnt the best place, believe me i have tried, you are well outnumbered.




I was chatting to a mate this morning who went to the Derby Phoenix club meeting at Donington last weekend, they had 50-odd strokers racing there of all persuasions, so best to get off the couch and out the door if you need a two-stroke fix. Must say our historic meetings here have plenty of LCs and RGVs these days, plus a fleet of 20 125 and 250 GP strokers running in our Moderns support class.
If you're hoping for a return of strokers to the GPs you're kidding, but ICGP are still strong. Get one of your own going, then you'll be in it up to your eyes !


#4 fastfitter

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:55

they have produced fantastic racing to date you would have to agree.


Indeed, difficult to see how it could be better. Top five in the Assen Moto3 race covered by 0.4 sec. Just turn the sound down  ;)


#5 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 14:31

If you're hoping for a return of strokers to the GPs you're kidding............

Never say never.
Oddly enough, from 2014 there will be a 2 stroke only class in motocross, with a capacity limit is 300cc. Really looking forward to the strokers return to the MX track, and if the positive comments are anything to go by, I am not alone.
I have never been a huge fan of the thumpers in MX, although I must say they have produced great racing in the road racing GP's.

#6 RC162

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 18:20

To be open i wouldnt be on this forum if you are passionate about grand prix/Championship racing.

i rarely come on here now, i remember the the outcry here when controlled 600cc 4 strokes only were going to replace open class up to 250cc open class prototype bikes and then after a few weeks they were all for them, buying intio Dornas "close racing for tv" dupe.

I once put a petition up on this site promoting open class racing in America but was trodden on barr a few guys who were really passionate about the sport.

If you are passionate about 2 strokes then this isnt the best place, believe me i have tried, you are well outnumbered.


Dear RD
I admire you for your love of all things two stroke but for me I am a racing enthusiast not just a two stroke enthusiast. There has been some brilliant racing in the current four stroke classes but how you come across is that all of this racing is crap because it uses four stroke engines and not two strokes. You were not trodden on but you were disagreed with and there is a difference. I'm sorry you feel unwelcome on this forum but to say only those who love two strokes are passionate about the sport is wholly untrue. You are passionate about a certain type of engine not the sport of motorcycle racing. Just my opinion.

RC

#7 timbo

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 02:52

Unfortunately its all about the television these days, and Moto2 and Moto3 are providing a good TV spectacle.

Old 125/250/350/500/750GP bikes will sit in a shed for years until someone comes up with a viable Historic class for them and then they will start coming out again, and people who have forgotten will remember how easy it is to maintain them compared to 4strokes and hopefully we will experience them again, as they were meant to be ridden.
I can only hope events like the upcoming Classic TT on the Isle of Man will recognise these bikes.

#8 greg1953

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 07:31

I'm a two stroke lover and raced TRs & TZs ( with no great success but a lot of fun ) and admit to being a bit upset at the demise of the 250 class in GPs but the Moto 2 racing is as good as we've seen for years. The bikes seem fairly equal, there's a full grid and to be fair the last few years of the 250s wasn't that good, little close racing and a huge difference in the speed of the top bikes to the rest of the field, and am I correct in thinking that an Aprilia was over a million quid to rent for the season ?
Without question some of those bikes were the most beautiful creations ever to sit on a grid ( my opinion ) and if I won the lottery I would buy several but for spectating the Moto 2 has been a good move, did anyone watch Espargaro into the first corner at Mugello ? unbelievable.
Greg

#9 fil2.8

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:00

Unfortunately its all about the television these days, and Moto2 and Moto3 are providing a good TV spectacle.

Old 125/250/350/500/750GP bikes will sit in a shed for years until someone comes up with a viable Historic class for them and then they will start coming out again, and people who have forgotten will remember how easy it is to maintain them compared to 4strokes and hopefully we will experience them again, as they were meant to be ridden.
I can only hope events like the upcoming Classic TT on the Isle of Man will recognise these bikes.



Yes , it is all about TV , unfortunately , Timbo , even the circuits aren't user friendly , vision and photographic opportunities being severely limited :o , it's all corporate crap now , for people who know nothing and have little or no interest in the sport and just turn up for a free day out :rolleyes:

But I must take issue regarding viable classes to run historic race bikes , be it 2 or 4 smoke . Here in the UK there is the thriving CMRC , plus other clubs which cater for these bikes , plus there is the European ICGP series .

Going back to the original topic , I am a 2-smoke ' nut ' , but admire greatly proper factory 4-smoke race bikes , be it single , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 8 cylinders , as long as they are proper race bikes , and not converted road bikes as most of the racing seems to be now .

Part of the problem is there doesn't seem to be any scope for engine builders / tuners / call them what you will , as there is the sameness under a seemingly controlled environment , with far to many rules , regulations , computer operators etc :mad:

It never was a cheap sport , but , lets have proper race bikes out there again , with only 1 proddy race , not a complete day of them , and yes , I know in the ' good old days ' ------- whatever that means :p , a fair few race bikes were converted , but you had variety , not the same boring sameness you get now . Back in the day , when Honda's wonderful 6 , or the MV's / Yamaha 4's etc were fired up , a huge crowd would form around these machines , I know all of this , because I was there :up: , as I still am , mostly at the CMRC meetings , but doing the 1000 bikes at Mallory , on the original track , pre chicanes , with a couple of tz's I have , see you there !!!

Phil ( another boring old fart :lol: ) :wave: :clap: :clap:

#10 RC162

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:49

Unfortunately its all about the television these days, and Moto2 and Moto3 are providing a good TV spectacle.

Old 125/250/350/500/750GP bikes will sit in a shed for years until someone comes up with a viable Historic class for them and then they will start coming out again, and people who have forgotten will remember how easy it is to maintain them compared to 4strokes.


They may be easier to strip and rebuild but they are certainly not cheap. Keeping a good TZ350 competitive for a club season takes a lot of hours and parts. The lads I know who currently run club four strokes can do a whole season without a strip.


#11 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:15

I've never understood this two stroke v four stroke business. I simply enjoy motorcycle racing whatever the engines are. I enjoyed the works Yamahas and Suzukis when they were popular just as much as the works Hondas. It's all just racing, surely?

#12 GD66

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:15

:up: :wave:

Edited by GD66, 04 July 2013 - 10:16.


#13 fastfitter

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:18

Back in the day , when Honda's wonderful 6 , or the MV's / Yamaha 4's etc were fired up , a huge crowd would form around these machines , I know all of this , because I was there :up:


Me too. I also remember Hailwood saying the 70hp MV 4 was the ideal bike for the TT - these days you can buy double that straight after passing your test :)

And for years you'd see one or maybe two bits of factory exotica out in front, then you could go for a brew while you waited for all the Manx's and G50s to come round


#14 fil2.8

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:52

And for years you'd see one or maybe two bits of factory exotica out in front, then you could go for a brew while you waited for all the Manx's and G50s to come round




Ah , yes , but wasn't in invariably a damned good battle for the minor placings , with no quarter asked for , or given :clap: :clap: :up: :wave:

#15 Tonka

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 21:16

This will please a few (Nicked from the bike thread in Racing Comments)

https://pbs.twimg.co...IFMZf.jpg:large

The 1994 Suzuki RGV 500 XR84 ridden by Redding is owned by Northamptonshire businessman, Steve Wheatman, and is run at events by his own Team Classic Suzuki set up. The bike weighs just 135kg and produces around 195BHP from it’s 70° V-Four, 498cc two-stroke engine, enough to propel it to a top speed approaching 320km/h with the right gearing.

It’s a very different animal to the four-stroke, 600cc machine that Redding campaigns in the Moto2 World Championship and, judging from the list of injuries Schwantz sustained during his career, a little less forgiving too!

“The bike was absolutely amazing. Okay, the brakes weren’t great, but we were expecting that. The handling was incredible because the bike is so light; it was really easy to change direction. It accelerated hard too, with the front coming up in every gear. I didn’t need a rev counter; I just changed up whenever I felt the front wheel was high enough! There was a lot of power, but it was pretty controllable, nothing like the razor sharp powerband I was expecting. It turns like a 125 and was still pulling in sixth. They should bring these back. It was absolutely mega to ride!”

With no engine braking from the two-stroke motor, Redding wasn’t able to give the Spa crowd a demonstration of backing it in, for which he’s well known in Moto2, but he did manage to show them what the elbow sliders on his leathers are for.

“I was knee down and I could see I was quite close with the elbow, so I just leant it over a bit more and down it went. I don’t think they did that in 500GP back in 1994, but then the tyres we were using today offer a lot more grip than those Kevin Schwantz had to contend with when he raced the bike.”




#16 PaulMar

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 22:16

I've never understood this two stroke v four stroke business. I simply enjoy motorcycle racing whatever the engines are. I enjoyed the works Yamahas and Suzukis when they were popular just as much as the works Hondas. It's all just racing, surely?


I couldn't agree more :up:, having 'raced' one of each at a number of Southern 100s and MGPs in the late 70s & early 80s I found them to be very different but equally enjoyable riding experiences. And I still enjoy watching both side of 'the force' with equal relish, although I have to admit I prefer the variety of Moto GP & Moto 3 four strokes to the production engine based classes.

Anyway in another fit of self indulgence me and my Italian 'oil boiler' are on the Isle of Man Steam Racket to Douglas tomorrow for a few days watching 2 & 4 strokes racing round the Billown circuit. :clap:





#17 PaulMar

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:03

I couldn't agree more :up:, having 'raced' one of each at a number of Southern 100s and MGPs in the late 70s & early 80s I found them to be very different but equally enjoyable riding experiences. And I still enjoy watching both side of 'the force' with equal relish, although I have to admit I prefer the variety of Moto GP & Moto 3 four strokes to the production engine based classes.

Anyway in another fit of self indulgence me and my Italian 'oil boiler' are on the Isle of Man Steam Racket to Douglas tomorrow for a few days watching 2 & 4 strokes racing round the Billown circuit. :clap:



Just got back from IOM after good weather & great racing which was very sadly marred by an unprecedented 3 deaths during the week. Even more poignantly all 3 unfortunate competitors were from the Isle of Man.

I would like to offer my sincere condolences to the family and friends of David Jukes, Mark Madsen-Mygdal and Paul Thomas for their sad loss. But I hope they will eventually be comforted by appreciating the passion their loved ones had for their sport.