463 replies to this topic

[2ms]

So were the failures caused by the track or not? It sounds a bit like they were since they appear to have been caused by cuts rather than by internal failures. But it's a lot of failures for one race.

[Baddoer]

Can't remember they had tire failures last year in Silverstone. Something has been changed and it's not the track I think. Oh wait, we have new tires!

Edited by Baddoer, 30 June 2013 - 14:21.

[noikeee]

Find it very very hard to believe it's not Pirelli's fault to some extent, to be honest (old spec tyres or not). It's just a giant cluster**** and turned this race into a bit of a joke.

[stanga]

Debris obviously.

Perhaps after this, and given how exciting the 2nd part of the race was, perhaps we can engineer the tires to be more explosive in future seasons.

Personally, I'd welcome a couple ounces of semtex in each wheelrim.

[Mc_Silver]

Bring Michelin back to Formula 1!

[DanardiF1]

So were the failures caused by the track or not? It sounds a bit like they were since they appear to have been caused by cuts rather than by internal failures. But it's a lot of failures for one race.

Easy answer. No.

I have never seen any racing car have a puncture caused by running over kerbs. Never. Only 2 months ago there were 30 odd LMP and GT cars racing here for 6 hours, and not one puncture was suffered.

[BigCHrome]

It's obviously not debris.

[w00dy]

Given the state of Silverstone - or the lack of state, I think these failures were caused by the track.
OTOH the tyres are sh!t, but we knew that for a while.

[spacekid]

Does anyone know if there were any tyre failures in any of the other races at Silverstone this weekend?

The kerbs at Silverstone have not produced tyre failures like this in previous years. There have been tyre failures in other races this year with different kerbs that were not previously a problem.

The only common factor is Pirelli F1 tyres.

[spacekid]

Given the state of Silverstone - or the lack of state, I think these failures were caused by the track.
OTOH the tyres are sh!t, but we knew that for a while.

So why is it only the F1 Pirelli tyres that fail here?

And what caused the identical failures at other tracks?

[GiancarloF1]

An utter disgrace, the worst since USA 2005. I still think Michelin can be better next year.

[olliek88]

Bring Michelin back to Formula 1!

Because their tyres never failed...

[toxicfusion]

From Sky, Jenson has 'signed a letter' regarding the safety, wonder what that says and who has signed it

[BigCHrome]

From Sky, Jenson has 'signed a letter' regarding the safety, wonder what that says and who has signed it

Would be interesting if the drivers union decide that they won't race until there are tire changes.

[PokePoke]

Bring Michelin back to Formula 1!

Because Michelin has always provided the most durable tire, like GP USA 2005, oh wait...

Edited by PokePoke, 30 June 2013 - 14:31.

[discover23]

Replace Silverstone with Brands Hatch or build another circuit in London.

[bmardini]

Tires are being produced for show, not sport.

Its a joke. Bernie wants cars pitting a lot because that justifies the $6000 paddock club passes. you know, cause the guests want to see cars.

Thank god silverstone is a wide open circuit. Can you imagine if this happened at a tighter circuit? We're damn lucky we didn't see some spectacular accidents today.

[karne]

This reeks of Dunlop and Bathurst, where every year there are tyre problems, usually identical and caused by structural failure, and yet somehow Dunlop get away with saying, "No, no, it's the drivers, they keep running over exactly the same piece of debris in exactly the same way!"

At least Pirelli don't yet have blood on their hands over these. Dunlop already has the ghost of Mark Porter hanging over them.

Pirelli have been lucky so far. They may not be so lucky next time. It's too much of a risk. A risk the drivers shouldn't have to take.

[smitten]

Would be interesting if the drivers union decide that they won't race until there are tire changes.

A driver's strike would split the board in a most humerous way ;-) Even better if only half the drivers strike...

[fabr68]

Pirelli tires went from delaminations to explosion failure mode. At the same time, Red Bull and Mercedes no longer have problems with them (other than wear) on race trim. At the same time Ferrari and Lotus no longer are good on the tires.

Nothing changed on the tires?

Edited by fabr68, 30 June 2013 - 14:32.

[DanardiF1]

Because Michelin has always provided the most durable tire, like GP USA 2005, wait...

Which they then advised their teams not to race with. They didn't bury their head in the sand like Pirelli.

Michelin are probably the best tyre manufacturer (for racing use certainly) in the world. They push the technical limits with their tyres and understand safety.

[turssi]

Unacceptable what happened today. Pirelli tires, under pressuring, hotter temperatures, bad tire structures, Silverstone kerbs. Something in the combination pushed the situation across the acceptable limit.

What they need to do is analyze the causes and have a short term solution available for next race. After that they need to upgrade the tires.

[DanardiF1]

Replace Silverstone with Brands Hatch or build another circuit in London.

Oh because Brands is so much safer?

[Petroltorque]

So Everyone wants to put the blame on Pirelli without having the evidence of the tyre post mortem .Bare in mind most of the critical failures occurred on the left rear. AFAIK Pirelli were planning to introduce new tyre compounds from the British GP but the proposal was blocked by the FIA. Their reasoning was that all teams need to be in agreement. Let's face it, non of these teams are going to agree anything since they are all driven by self interest. The irony is that the FIA has pushed through a number of rule changes on the grounds of safety. Aren't catastrophic tyre failure a safety issue. These guys are going to have to keep it on the tarmac in Spa and Suzuka.

Edited by Petroltorque, 30 June 2013 - 14:51.

[Atreiu]

Circuits have been imperfect ever since they were first built. Drivers have used kerbs as much and as hard as possible for a long while too. Carbon fibre debris isnt news either. So even if the kerbs at Silverstone are not ideal, these tyres tolerance is too marginal. Its clearly a significant risk. Alonso could have been smacked head on by tyre wreckage and all other failure could have ended much worse as well.

Im not sure what else has to actually happened for the tyres to be revised.

[Pitlane]

Whatever you think of pirelli, did you all notice that none of the drivers listened to those warnings about hitting the curbs. When safetycar went in they were all on them again..

[olliek88]

Which they then advised their teams not to race with. They didn't bury their head in the sand like Pirelli.

Michelin are probably the best tyre manufacturer (for racing use certainly) in the world. They push the technical limits with their tyres and understand safety.

And yet Michelin still brought tyres that where unsuitable for the job, even with endless in season testing and a massive budget, neither of which Pirelli have the luxury of. Not to mention Pirelli wanted to change the construction of the tyres but the teams blocked it. Today was unacceptable but Pirelli have had the door closed in their face at almost every opportunity by both the teams and the FIA, they haven't buried their heads in the sand, the teams pushed Pirelli's head into it.

[SR388]

An utter disgrace, the worst since USA 2005. I still think Michelin can be better next year.

My first grand prix in person.


You know what open wheel series runs on all kinds of courses? Indy.


I think Pirelli and F1 need to look at what other series are doing to provide safe and reliable tires, that ALSO provide interesting racing. Perhaps Firestone gets a lot more leeway in testing, and that can be the answer.

I don't like blaming the drivers for the tire failure, they did not drive in an unreasonable fashion. The standard practice is to use the curbs, and Pirelli should have built these tires with that in mind.

Edited by Buttoneer, 03 July 2013 - 10:37.

[flyboy]

I am going to hurry up and buy tickets for Spa at the end of the Kemel straight... it should be verrrry interesting...

[Coops3]

Circuits have been imperfect ever since they were first built. Drivers have used kerbs as much and as hard as possible for a long while too. Carbon fibre debris isnt news either. So even if the kerbs at Silverstone are not ideal, these tyres tolerance is too marginal. Its clearly a significant risk. Alonso could have been smacked head on by tyre wreckage and all other failure could have ended much worse as well.

Im not sure what else has to actually happened for the tyres to be revised.

Exactly. Whilst the direct cause was probably the track itself, this didn't happen last year, or the year before, or the year before that...

Edit: Just to add - I've said this before, but why does a puncture always result in complete destruction of the tyre, such that a massive piece of tyre goes flying up in the air behind? It's a disaster waiting to happen. It must be addressed.

Edited by Coops3, 30 June 2013 - 14:47.

[DanardiF1]

I am going to hurry up and buy tickets for Spa at the end of the Kemel straight... it should be verrrry interesting...

I wouldn't bother... by the looks of it some cars won't even make it out of Raidillon.

[bourbon]

They need to look to see what the cause was? That is just being kind to Pirelli.

Pirelli needs to get it together - quick - so that we can forestall anything worse resulting. FIA's fast wearing tyre idea is a complete failure - Ted just admit it.

[ensign14]

So were the failures caused by the track or not?

Not. That's the face-saving excuse so that the FIA doesn't get sued by anyone injured by a flying car. Four different teams were affected, three of the delaminations came on the straight.

[Coops3]

They need to look to see what the cause was? That is just being kind to Pirelli.

Pirelli needs to get it together - quick - so that we can forestall anything worse resulting. FIA's fast wearing tyre idea is a complete failure - Ted just admit it.

I'd say that's a fair assessment.

[TheF1BOB]

Bring back Goodyear.

[st99]

Would be interesting if the drivers union decide that they won't race until there are tire changes.

If I were them I would not race until I was sure this wouldn't happen anymore. Luckily none of the drivers was hurt today but what if this happens in a circuit where the barriers are closer?

Sorry, but for me what happened today is unacceptable.

[Atreiu]

And, by the way, hopefully the FIA will much more demanding when inspecting kerbs from now on. Silverstone isnt the last circuit in which drivers go all over them at reasonble speeds.

Edited by Atreiu, 30 June 2013 - 14:51.

[DanardiF1]

If I were them I would not race until I was sure this wouldn't happen anymore. Luckily none of the drivers was hurt today but what if this happens in a circuit where the barriers are closer?

Sorry, but for me what happened today is unacceptable.

Same here.

[Petroltorque]

Does anyone seriously believe that a new tyre supplier can enter at this late stage. Where are they going to obtain their tyre data from? Part of the blame has got to be placed firmly at the FIA's door Pirelli had a tyre READY for this race and its use was blocked by the FIA, wtf? They use their mealy mouth excuse of lack of unanimity.

[study]

If I were them I would not race until I was sure this wouldn't happen anymore. Luckily none of the drivers was hurt today but what if this happens in a circuit where the barriers are closer?

Sorry, but for me what happened today is unacceptable.

It seemed the most danger was from flying rubber

[Ross Stonefeld]

Here's some info for people claiming this has NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE, it can't possibly be caused by the circuit, why would it only happen on the straights, etc, etc.

A small step on the inside of the entry of the Bus Stop chicane was to blame for the tyre failures Michelin suffered during the Belgian Grand Prix last Sunday, according to Pascal Vasselon, the company's Formula One project manager.

The right rear Michelin tyre on Jenson Button's BAR-Honda car disintegrated as he travelled at 320 km/h into the Les Combes corner and he was pitched into a spin that forced him into the Minardi of Hungarian Zsolt Baumgartner.

Button's tyre failure followed a blow out for McLaren's David Coulthard early in the race, with Williams driver Juan Pablo Montoya also suffering the same problem late in the event.

The French tyre supplier launched an investigation and concluded the tyres had been damaged at the entry of the Bus Stop chicane.

"We had a late night on Sunday trying to understand what happened," Vasselon told Italy's Gazzetta dello Sport. "Dealing with damaged tyres unfortunately prevents us from establishing with certainty the nature of the failure.

"We noticed the existence of a small step between the inside of the kerb and the grass at the entry of the Bus Stop; the edge of the step is blackened, showing the frequent passage of tyres."

Toyota's third driver Ryan Briscoe also had on accident on Friday at the Eau Rouge corner due to a deflated tyre. Vasselon said they had discovered a similar problem at the exit of the chicane, too.

"We noticed that Briscoe pinched the kerb at the turn's exit and we noticed that small step when we went there for checks," he added. "The organisers sorted it out before qualifying but we did not think that the same problem was also at the chicane's entry."

By my count that's four 'failures' on four cars. Three in the race, one in practice.

[DILLIGAF]

What was the track temp? Was it unusually hot & the tyres couldn't cope? Vergne's failure looked like a classic delamination whilst Hamilton's looked like a puncture that then shredded/exploded. Either way it's unacceptable & dangerous. I don't blame Pirelli, they are providing the tyres requested. But in doing so they have compromised the tyre's reliability. Terrible PR for the Pirelli brand.

[SonicAngel]

So who's tires failed today? I remember Hamilton, Massa, Perez, Verne and I heard Roseberg had one as well but he managed to escape it being right next to the pit and with SC being called... Am I missing one?

[GodHimself]

We need some DMACKs!!!

[ensign14]

A small step on the inside of the entry of the Bus Stop chicane was to blame for the tyre failures Michelin suffered during the Belgian Grand Prix last Sunday, according to Pascal Vasselon, the company's Formula One project manager.

AKA " Michelin not to blame for Michelin tyre failures, says Michelin spokesman".

[Atreiu]

Here's some info for people claiming this has NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE, it can't possibly be caused by the circuit, why would it only happen on the straights, etc, etc.



By my count that's four 'failures' on four cars. Three in the race, one in practice.

It happens and has to be addressed/fixed. After today, there is no more room for "there can only be changes if the teams agree unanimously". For both kerbs and tyres.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Fortunately we have you to tell us what really happened.

[Petroltorque]

If I were them I would not race until I was sure this wouldn't happen anymore. Luckily none of the drivers was hurt today but what if this happens in a circuit where the barriers are closer?

Sorry, but for me what happened today is unacceptable.

Look on the back of your Silverstone ticket; it says' motor racing is dangerous'. You won't eliminate risk. At best you try to manage it. The problem is that drivers use the white lines as loose indicators of the circuit limits. If you brought back the big saw tooth kerbs, they'd soon stick to the tarmac

[Atreiu]

Fortunately we have you to tell us what really happened.

I just watched the race, the guys who know are probably at Silverstone. But its safe enough to guess tyres should not blow up like that no matter where the biggest share of responsability lies.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think it's telling that Vettel had cuts on a tire that survived. So something external is damaging the tire.