34 replies to this topic

[DutchQuicksilver]

Title says it all. The last few laps were some of the best racing since Pirelli came into the sport. When drivers don't have to worry about tyre management, the racing is so good. Loved Webber and Alonso going all out. Though, it may have looked cooler because the drivers they were overtaking had slightly worser tyres, it was great to watch.

So, bring back Bridgestone tyres, combined with good DRS zones like today and the racing will be cracking!

[joshb]

The last laps would've been boring though if everyone's tyres we the same age

[Baddoer]

Bridgestone, Goodyear, Avon or even Micheleien... No more Pirelly plaease, no thanks.

[Lopek]

The racing was so great because of the differing wear levels of the tyres on different cars. If you have super durable tyres then it would not have happened. It was Pirelli tyres that made those last laps happen.

[ApexMouse]

Slightly worse? Did you watch the race, or Just kimi?

They overtaking cars were on tyres 12+laps younger than those in fornt. Its becuase of the wear that you actually had a race. if that was 2010 webber and alonso would be screwed. Honestly such bullshit gets posted about the tyres.

[Henrik B]

Of all the things F1 might need, Bridgestone isn't one of them.

And as Lopek says, the racing was great precisely because of Pirellis high tyre wear. I bet Kimi was wishing for Bridgestones in the last few laps...

[turssi]

The last laps were fun to watch and could only have happened with Pirelli.

[discover23]

It was because of the safety... Without the safety and bridgetone tires the race would have been pretty boring with huge gaps and processions..

[wj_gibson]

Title says it all. The last few laps were some of the best racing since Pirelli came into the sport. When drivers don't have to worry about tyre management, the racing is so good. Loved Webber and Alonso going all out. Though, it may have looked cooler because the drivers they were overtaking had slightly worser tyres, it was great to watch.

So, bring back Bridgestone tyres, combined with good DRS zones like today and the racing will be cracking!

All that will happen then is that the field will get strung out very quickly after the safety car pulls in, resulting in the finishing order completely static, as frequently happened in the Bridgestone era. There would not have been the kinds of charge that Webber and Alonso put in during the final laps, for instance.

[hotstickyslick]

Remember the days when some drivers never stopped for new tyres? I liked those days better.

[Atreiu]

Slightly worse? Did you watch the race, or Just kimi?

They overtaking cars were on tyres 12+laps younger than those in fornt. Its becuase of the wear that you actually had a race. if that was 2010 webber and alonso would be screwed. Honestly such bullshit gets posted about the tyres.

There would still be DRS...

[David M. Kane]

Adrian Newey said after the race that a proposal was bought forward after Canada to change the sidewalls of the tires and 3 teams turned the proposal down because it would affect them negatively. Who were those 3 teams?

[Seanspeed]

Last few laps prove that a safety car near the end of the race with the order shuffled a bit is often entertaining.

That's it.

[Vesuvius]

Last laps were thanks to some having new tyres and some with very old...and thanks to SC they were close enough to others. If anything it was thanks to pirelli, we never saw these kind of races with bridgestones...and I would rather take michelins than bridgestones, much better tyres.

[Vesuvius]

Adrian Newey said after the race that a proposal was bought forward after Canada to change the sidewalls of the tires and 3 teams turned the proposal down because it would affect them negatively. Who were those 3 teams?

Ferrari, Force India and Lotus.

[NoDivergence]

Slightly worse? Did you watch the race, or Just kimi?

They overtaking cars were on tyres 12+laps younger than those in fornt. Its becuase of the wear that you actually had a race. if that was 2010 webber and alonso would be screwed. Honestly such bullshit gets posted about the tyres.

Hamilton had tires that were 12 laps younger than those he was overtaking? He was catching Alonso like crazy. Hamilton on 2010 tires would CREAM the guys he was passing today.

[topical]

Title says it all. The last few laps were some of the best racing since Pirelli came into the sport. When drivers don't have to worry about tyre management, the racing is so good. Loved Webber and Alonso going all out. Though, it may have looked cooler because the drivers they were overtaking had slightly worser tyres, it was great to watch.

So, bring back Bridgestone tyres, combined with good DRS zones like today and the racing will be cracking!

Nonsense post. The only reason those last laps were good were because of new versus old tyres, and that only happens if you have significant degradation. Honestly, think before you write!

[Atreiu]

Last few laps prove that a safety car near the end of the race with the order shuffled a bit is often entertaining.

That's it.

Give points for qualifying, reverse the grid and reduce race distance to 60km.

;-)

[Wingcommander]

DRS passes and huge tyre advantages... i didnt find it very entertaining.

[mtknot]

Give points for qualifying, reverse the grid and reduce race distance to 60km.

;-)

Or have multiple races that add up to the same race distance. Why don't they do this instead actually?

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

And as Lopek says, the racing was great precisely because of Pirellis high tyre wear. I bet Kimi was wishing for Bridgestones in the last few laps...

I disagree. If that were the case then we're watching a manufactured result, and every Bridgestone runner back in the day would have finished side by side.

True, you can have "racing" on cars with tires made of cheese. That doesn't mean cheesy tires are a prerequisite for RACING.

I prefer attacking racers, not cruising "managing a bad car/tires/engine/fuel/whatever mediocre concept" 'racing".

[slideways]

DRS passes and huge tyre advantages... i didnt find it very entertaining.

It's modern f1 aka fake excitement. I can't stand the drs or paper tyres.

[andrewr]

Last few laps prove that a safety car near the end of the race with the order shuffled a bit is often entertaining.

That's it.

True, but for me it was not the overtaking so much as seeing the eventual top 4 guys going hell for leather without having to worry about their tyres lasting the distance.

[Atreiu]

Three years ago on Bridgestones with no KERS or DRS Alonso had a fastest lap three seconds faster than Webber today. I still think there was nothing wrong with them. The mandatory pit stop was what forced everyone into the same strategy.

Edited by Atreiu, 01 July 2013 - 02:30.

[Brother Fox]

The last laps would've been boring though if everyone's tyres we the same age

This, and all the other ones saying the same with varying degrees of class isnt true though is it?


Rosberg, Webber and Alonso were on new tyres werent they? I think Hamilton maybe?


So those 3 or 4 were racing on similar tyres and they were racing hard. Kimi got stooged by a pit call no doubt and got mugged over the following laps, so that was a pity.

[black magic]

thedifference was new vs old but the key was s some and not others risking the pitstop - not whether bridgestone or pirelli.

newer bridgestone had more grip than old bridgestones else there would never have been changes to tyres during qual on the bridgestones either.

the point stands about seeing cars visibly being driven to their limits, not the delta of a useless tyre.

[Xeriks]

People say that low deg tyres are bad for the sport, but when the teams worked out how to deal with the tyres last year we had some awesome races, so I wouldn't mind seeing Bridgestone come back.

[muramasa]

Nonsense post. The only reason those last laps were good were because of new versus old tyres, and that only happens if you have significant degradation. Honestly, think before you write!

Bridgestone tyre too had massive difference in pace b/w new and old tyre. Remember Kobayashi at Valencia '10, Kubica at Singapore '10 and so on.

Last laps were thanks to some having new tyres and some with very old...and thanks to SC they were close enough to others. If anything it was thanks to pirelli, we never saw these kind of races with bridgestones...and I would rather take michelins than bridgestones, much better tyres.

because of DRS and KERS. With new tyres and only less than 10 laps to go after SC, drivers could push hard without need to worry about tyre deg...just like they did with bridgestone.

It was because of the safety... Without the safety and bridgetone tires the race would have been pretty boring with huge gaps and processions..

as some people suggested, it's DRS and KERS that enable on-track overtaking. Also huge gap was norm in any era. Actually current state of cars finishing so closely (like several to 10 sec or so) is very odd one in F1 history.
Also odd is that current cars are extremely close each other. 2008/09 was the extreme peak, 15 drivers within 1 sec in Q2 was norm. With refuelling banned, the field spread out abit again from 2010 but still it's quite tight.
With such sensitive and refined aero, frozen, equalized and rev-limited engines and cars performance being so close, I'd be surprised if race isnt a procession. And that's exactly why they had to come up with and resort to such fake solutions like "hi-deg" tyres, DRS and KERS (as push-to-pass). I thought those solutions were temporary and they would look into fundamental solution (like ground effect) and make complete overhaul of aero, but sadly they are too conservative.

People say that low deg tyres are bad for the sport, but when the teams worked out how to deal with the tyres last year we had some awesome races, so I wouldn't mind seeing Bridgestone come back.

yip, Bridgestone tyres provided varying strategic possibilities actually, as evidenced by Webber at Hungary '10 where he did "qualifying run" throuhout the race with more stop to win. With Bridgesone, drivers could push hard and attack and go v fast with more stint if they wanted to, and could preserve tyres and go slower and longer if they wanted to.


People blame Bridgestone for just everything coz tyre is visible element and they were easy target, either forgetting or enable to see that the real culprit is sensitive aero. When tyre is under spotlight, there's sth fundamentally wrong about racing and cars.
Bridgestone contributed to F1 so much, providing quality tyres and being fair to all teams, keeping low profile and humble attitude, yet many people spit on their back when they withdrew. What a reward for such dedication.
Fortunately teams and organizers realized their efforts and value, they jointly persuaded bridgestone to change their mind and stay in F1, Hamashima and co were respected and loved by many, and were provided fond farewell after Abu Dhabi '10.

[Spa]

Last laps were pure entertainment in my view, and that’s thanks to Pirelli and its degradation, I love it. A different matter are the tyre explosions, that’s a safety issue which has to be cured, but don’t touch tyre wear please, It's great to have more “strategy scope” and different approaches to the same situation, that was impposible with Bridgestone 1 stop (clone) races…

Cheers! ;-)

Edited by Spa, 01 July 2013 - 08:28.

[andrewr]

Last laps were pure entertainment in my view, and that’s thanks to Pirelli and its degradation, I love it.

I disagree. It's precisely BECAUSE of Pirelli degradation we don't see these sorts of last laps more often. We had a special case here where a few drivers where bunched up due to a SC and used the oppurtunity to get fresh rubber. As such they didn't need to worry about degradation and could go hard till the end, instead of nursing their tyres as usual.

[OO7]

DRS passes and huge tyre advantages... i didnt find it very entertaining.

Webber passed a Lotus around the outside of Brooklands and passed Alonso into Stowe as well as others. With the two passes I mentioned, the DRS got him close enough, but he was still behind those cars into the braking zone which is how it should be. Sure there were some easy blast straight by passes, but there were also some really good battles born out of differences in tyre wear.

[ensign14]

It's not Pirelli's fault - they're building to order.

If people want overtaking, then either DRS, or decomposing tyres. Both are not necessary. I'd be happier with banning tyre changes and rewarding the strategic driver - it's notable that when that happens MS was nowhere.

[ivand911]

I didn't saw much degradation yesterday? I don't know what some here saw? Tyres were OK, I even think that drivers were pushing this race? The only problem with the tyres were explosions. Lewis, Webber , Alonso, Rosberg had pretty new tyres at the end and they all pushed and it was still interesting? Only Kimi has much older tyres and they passed him. But this was because tyre age(wear) ,not because of some bad degradation. I don't think tyre degradation was any obvious yesterday. But, tyres for me were clearly changed for better racing ,but bad construction/safety.

I'd be happier with banning tyre changes and rewarding the strategic driver - it's notable that when that happens MS was nowhere.

When that happen you mean, his car was nowhere. For sure MS wouldn't mind hard durable tyre that can last whole race. I guess you know nothing about him. He didn't liked this cheese tyres and that this was not F1 any more. This is one of the reasons why Webber is leaving too.

Edited by ivand911, 01 July 2013 - 09:42.

[Masenco]

So we all agree that the reason the end of the race was so exciting was that people were on different strategies (consiously or not), but also that we dont want people to have to manage tyres all race and drive to a delta.

Therefore what the sport needs to do is figure out a way to make it appealing for different teams to use different race strategies without the need for cheese tyres.

I think coming up with a way to make 1,2 and 3 stops work out to very close race-times would get us a lot of the way there.

[Markn93]

So we all agree that the reason the end of the race was so exciting was that people were on different strategies (consiously or not), but also that we dont want people to have to manage tyres all race and drive to a delta.

Therefore what the sport needs to do is figure out a way to make it appealing for different teams to use different race strategies without the need for cheese tyres.

I think coming up with a way to make 1,2 and 3 stops work out to very close race-times would get us a lot of the way there.

This. I think the answer may just be refuelling.