130 replies to this topic

[Jepho]

Apperently there is a romour going on

Twitter, joseluisf1

Aparently Sauber and Mclaren saw kevlar in the failed tires on their cars



For those who dont know what that means, Red bull and Mercedes have pushed Pirelli to use kevlar on their tyres but got blocked by other Teams.

What do u think?

[rmpugh]

I think this was commented on by Ted in his notebook feature, saying it looked strange. Nothing further was mentioned though.

[Sakae]

So, who is in trouble then?

[ensign14]

Twitter, joseluisf1

Aparently Sauber and Mclaren saw kevlar in the failed tires on their cars

That's nothing, I saw Jesus in a shred of tyre.

[artista]

Just for the sake of the information (I won't enter in the discussion, at least ot yet), the link to the article where this Jose Luís got the information from:

http://www.marca.com...1372672736.html

[SpaMaster]

That would support Pirelli's view that delamination without-inflation is safer than puncture-like explosion. They changed something and that has gone from one delamination in two races to 5 explosions in one race.

[goingthedistance]

So, this is suggesting that they changed the tyre construction without the permission of the teams? Interesting if true. Doubtful though.

[Trust]

If true discard the Silverstone results and ban them from F1.

[trogggy]

If true discard the Silverstone results and ban them from F1.

[rmpugh]

If true discard the Silverstone results and ban them from F1.

After first designing cars that can race without tyres?

[Deluxx]

Anyone else tired of hearing about tires so much in F1? I know it's part of racing but......this is too much.

You don't hear about how the sphere is sewn in futball. You don't hear about what material is made to sew a baseball. You just play the sport.

Too much emphasis on this crap causes pirelli to feel like the show is in their hands and then they go and do something dangerous/disasters to the sport. Meh.

Just tired of hearing about them all the time, lol

[Lazy]

After first designing cars that can race without tyres?

Get down to Kwik Fit.

[w00dy]

If true discard the Silverstone results and ban them from F1.

Nah, just ban Hembery from the Young Drivers Test..

[Outsider]

So, this is suggesting that they changed the tyre construction without the permission of the teams? Interesting if true. Doubtful though.

i don't find anything doubtful in that.

[Dunder]

I have an open mind but the source is not exactly reliable/objective.

If (and it is a big if) any changes were made beyond the bonding process/materals, I suspect the FIA would have known - which in some ways would be an even bigger 'scandal'.

[Baddoer]

That said, I actually never saw old steel band on the TV when tyres exploded like a bubbles yesterday...

[wj_gibson]

Unless the steel has just broken to bits.

The main news story on the Autopsort front page features a graphic photo of Vergne's tyre exploding, showering the following Lotus of Kimi Raikkonen in a load of fine, rather metallic-looking shards.

[goingthedistance]

I couldn't see this in Jose's tweets. Did he delete it?

[BoschKurve]

Anyone else tired of hearing about tires so much in F1? I know it's part of racing but......this is too much.

You don't hear about how the sphere is sewn in futball. You don't hear about what material is made to sew a baseball. You just play the sport.

Too much emphasis on this crap causes pirelli to feel like the show is in their hands and then they go and do something dangerous/disasters to the sport. Meh.

Just tired of hearing about them all the time, lol

The tires took on too big of a role in F1 currently.

Not to say that tires did not ever matter in F1 because they've always been an important part of the equation. Pirelli and F1 just approached this in altogether the wrong manner, and the tires became the centerpiece of the show. It's killed my interest in the races this year because hearing about the tires from start to finish, and pre and post-race is not fun at all.

[kimster89]

Im just waiting from Pirelli to say: sayonara, we have enough of this ****. This is just getting more and more bizzare.

[glorius&victorius]

http://www1.skysport...s-tyre-failures

Anthony raises questions that need answering.

[Diablobb81]

They'll get another reprimand.

3 reprimands and everyone starts on 3 tires.

[Myrvold]

http://www1.skysport...s-tyre-failures

Anthony raises questions that need answering.

Nice - for us outside UK (or maybe it's just me that cannot view it) what is the questions?

[Pitlane]

Anyone else tired of hearing about tires so much in F1? I know it's part of racing but......this is too much.

You don't hear about how the sphere is sewn in futball. You don't hear about what material is made to sew a baseball. You just play the sport.

Too much emphasis on this crap causes pirelli to feel like the show is in their hands and then they go and do something dangerous/disasters to the sport. Meh.

Just tired of hearing about them all the time, lol

Then again, imagine 50 000 people cheering in Camp nou, Messi shoots, the crowd explodes in a... no wait.. the ball explodes into small pieces, no goal..

Now imagine this happens 4 times in the same game..



Would there be a discussion about it you think?

[Frankbullitt]

http://www1.skysport...s-tyre-failures

Anthony raises questions that need answering.

He makes an interesting point about the steel band, how soft would it be, what I mean is if the steel band was indeed in the tyres yesterday, then where did it go after it blew?

[dau]

Anyone else tired of hearing about tires so much in F1? I know it's part of racing but......this is too much.

You don't hear about how the sphere is sewn in futball. You don't hear about what material is made to sew a baseball. You just play the sport.[...]

Actually, i can't remember the last World Cup ball that didn't receive massive criticism.

http://www.wired.com...currentPage=all
http://www.guardian....cup2006.sport15
http://en.wikipedia....ulani#Criticism

Erratic, unpredictable, favouring certain playing styles - reading those articles, it all sounds pretty familiar, doesn't it?

Edited by dau, 01 July 2013 - 14:37.

[Frankbullitt]

Nice - for us outside UK (or maybe it's just me that cannot view it) what is the questions?

Basically compares de-laminations from Bahrain and Barcelona to yesterday, and there is a very big difference, basically asking where was the steel band after yesterdays delams.

[Lazy]

Unless the steel has just broken to bits.

The main news story on the Autopsort front page features a graphic photo of Vergne's tyre exploding, showering the following Lotus of Kimi Raikkonen in a load of fine, rather metallic-looking shards.

Steel bands don't disintegrate, not at these sort of energies anyway.

[MichaelPM]

So this would mean that instead of making the tyres safer by reinforcing the construction they are making them fail and higher energy points and speeds. Would this mean that the compound is the real issue rather than the construction, being so soft that it can't handle shear forces inside the compound.

If true, this would mean pressuring Pirelli to make changes without full validation of design the most incompetent and dangerous thing the FIA and teams could have done.

[kimster89]

If true, this would mean the biggest scandal in f1 after stepneygate.

[kar]

Part of me hopes this is true, if nothing else to explain Ferrari and Lotus' sudden drop in performance and Redbull, Mercs uptick.

But if it's true, then it's going to lead to one hell of a storm in the sport.

[AustinF1]

Apperently there is a romour going on

Twitter, joseluisf1

Aparently Sauber and Mclaren saw kevlar in the failed tires on their cars



For those who dont know what that means, Red bull and Mercedes have pushed Pirelli to use kevlar on their tyres but got blocked by other Teams.

What do u think?

Holy crap. Looks like kevlar to me. Not steel.

Huge scandal if true. Remember the shot of the tire that came off Seb's car? I didn't think anything of it at the time, but that looked like kevlar in the cut.

[Dunder]

So this would mean that instead of making the tyres safer by reinforcing the construction they are making them fail and higher energy points and speeds. Would this mean that the compound is the real issue rather than the construction, being so soft that it can't handle shear forces inside the compound.

If true, this would mean pressuring Pirelli to make changes without full validation of design the most incompetent and dangerous thing the FIA and teams could have done.

Not really. The high sidewall on an F1 tyre is always going to make it susceptible to cuts and tears. They have to be flexible given the lack of suspension travel.

The difference between a 'hard' and 'soft' compound is actually very small in terms of the forces needed to deform/puncture them.

[SpaMaster]

If Pirelli did swap to Kevlar from steel without informing the teams, they are huge spineless cheats. They always have had freedom to change tyres in the name of safety. But they did not want to accept any safety issue, still changed it without informing the teams. I hope they void the British GP and even Canada GP wherever these tyres were used.

[Disgrace]

Part of me hopes this is true, if nothing else to explain Ferrari and Lotus' sudden drop in performance and Redbull, Mercs uptick.

But if it's true, then it's going to lead to one hell of a storm in the sport.

Agreed. F1 got away lightly yesterday, but things are on the brink. A full blown shitstorm might actually achieve something positive in the longer run.

[Lelouch]

Agreed. F1 got away lightly yesterday, but things are on the brink. A full blown shitstorm might actually achieve something positive in the longer run.

+1 on that.

[Deluxx]

Actually, i can't remember the last World Cup ball that didn't receive massive criticism.

http://www.wired.com...currentPage=all
http://www.guardian....cup2006.sport15
http://en.wikipedia....ulani#Criticism

Erratic, unpredictable, favouring certain playing styles - reading those articles, it all sounds pretty familiar, doesn't it?

What I'm saying is you don't hear EVERY football match dominated about the ball, and post match comments about the ball, and teams doing simulators for each match with the ball... etc

[AustinF1]

[ExFlagMan]

What I'm saying is you don't hear EVERY football match dominated about the ball, and post match comments about the ball, and teams doing simulators for each match with the ball... etc

But there again FIFA and the clubs haven't yet come up with a scheme designed to force the ball makers to arrange the stitching on the ball to fail after about 20 mins of use.

[Grundle]

People are forgetting Pirelli can do what they fecking well want with the tyres.
Although it is ironic.

[fabr68]

So Pirelli already implemented the construction change from steel to kevlar belts and the result is worst then what is next?

The tires at the beginning if the season were not failing like this so I would say to revert back to those. However I am sure that some teams agenda willl be to push for the 2012 tire.

Edited by fabr68, 01 July 2013 - 15:32.

[Gilles4Ever]

People are forgetting Pirelli can do what they fecking well want with the tyres.
Although it is ironic.

No they can't hence the whole issue with not "officially" introducing the kevlar belted tyres yet

[AustinF1]

[Jovanotti]

I know how people were hyperventilating here after we saw tyres delaminating ("someone will get killed" and bullshit), whereas Pirelli always maintained delaminations aren't very dangerous because the tyre remains inflated at all times. Very ironic if these spectacular failures came during the first race with revised tyre structure.

[katmen]

current tires are too extreme regarding materials...

[SpaMaster]

If yesterday's failures were the result of change to kevlar-belt, I really hope they revert back to steel belt at least for the next race. I really can't prepare for another race on ticking bombs like this.

[wj_gibson]

Yeah, but they weren't meant to be reverting to a kevlar belt.

Indeed, if they have reverted to kevlar then they have done so despite not having secured unanimous agreement from the teams to do so; not only that, but the revised structure has proven to be structurally unsound. Not good.

[MortenF1]

Excuse me for not knowing any better, but isn't kevlar black? The most spectacular tyre-failure yesterday was Vergne's, and it was silver grey, shiny debris flying all over! Wouldn't that be the steel-belt just disintegrating?

[Massa_f1]

I am going to say this even though my favourite driver is currently leading the championship.

This is the worst season in F1 I have ever witness. I don't care about boring races and processions. Sport is that from time to time, and I think people should of dealt with it better, instead of demanding entertainment.

With all that has gone on this season positively stinks.

Edited by Massa_f1, 01 July 2013 - 15:47.

[onemoresolo]

Excuse me for not knowing any better, but isn't kevlar black? The most spectacular tyre-failure yesterday was Vergne's, and it was silver grey, shiny debris flying all over! Wouldn't that be the steel-belt just disintegrating?

Kevlar is naturally yellow, but that isn't to say it isn't a different colour when used in tyres, I'm not sure.

A lot of the debris from Verge would have been bodywork, as it did considerable damage to the car itself. It certainly wasn't all tyre, unlike Hamilton's who's car escaped largely unscathed.