114 replies to this topic

[frederik-]

After watching todays race, I wonder which driver has most retirements from P1? Vettel has quite a few, Raikkonen as well from his McLaren years..

[OO7]

After watching todays race, I wonder which driver has most retirements from P1? Vettel has quite a few, Raikkonen as well from his McLaren years..

Kimi had a few in 2005. Vettel had at least 3 in 2010, 1 in 2011, 1 in 2012 that I remember and Sunday's race, however he did inherit P1 on Sunday. Lewis had 1 that I recall in 2009 and 2 in 2012.

[TheThirdTenor1]

Kimi had a few in 2005. Vettel had at least 3 in 2010, 1 in 2011, 1 in 2012 that I remember and Sunday's race, however he did inherit P1 on Sunday. Lewis had 1 that I recall in 2009 and 2 in 2012.

Vettel had 2 in 2010.

[Atreiu]

A quick look at Forix showed me 10 for Senna between crashes, spins and mechanical problems.
And 4 for Kimi.

Edited by Atreiu, 01 July 2013 - 19:25.

[OO7]

Vettel had 2 in 2010.

Bahrain, Australia & Korea.

[TheThirdTenor1]

Bahrain, Australia & Korea.

he didnt retire in bahrain.

[scheivlak]

Mika Hakkinen had quite a few in 1998-2001!

And then there's Chris Amon, 4 times in total winning position in 1968-69 and a tyre failure throwing him back at the 1972 French GP.

[OO7]

A quick look at Forix showed me 10 for Senna between crashes, spins and mechanical problems.
And 4 for Kimi.

I'm assuming frederik- meant due to mechanical issues or circumstance that could be perceived as being out of a drivers control.

[OO7]

he didnt retire in bahrain.

Thanks for that.

[d246]

Jim Clark must be up there.

[Atreiu]

I'm assuming frederik- meant due to mechanical issues or circumstance that could be perceived as being out of a drivers control.

I know, I just went for the total because I expected it to be a significant number as well.

In 1989 alone he had mech DNFs at Detroit, Montreal and Monza. Plus the DSQ at Suzuka which should be included.

[bogi]

Never forget,

[Atreiu]

By the way, it's very hard to get the exact numbers because sometimes the failure happens with the driver in the lead, but he limps for a while and is classified in another position before retiring definitely. For example, Hakkinen at Australia 1999. Forix has it that he retired from 5th.

Edited by Atreiu, 01 July 2013 - 19:50.

[garoidb]

According to Forix, Lewis has retired from the lead on three occasions. Fernando is the same . Sebastien is also the same. I only see two for Kimi.

However, these figures relate to retirements, and not just lost races (e.g. Lewis did not retire yesterday) and sometimes drivers limp on and retire from lower positions even though the reliability issue strikes while in the lead (e.g. Vettel is shown as retiring from P5 yesterday and I'm not completely sure why).

[Radion]

I remember Räikkönen:
-Nurburgring 2003
-Nurburgring 2005
-Hockenheim 2005
-Imola 2005

Edited by Radion, 01 July 2013 - 19:55.

[Boxerevo]

Mclaren had some bad retirements.

Edited by Boxerevo, 01 July 2013 - 19:56.

[rasul]

According to Forix, Lewis has retired from the lead on three occasions. Fernando is the same . Sebastien is also the same. I only see two for Kimi.

However, these figures relate to retirements, and not just lost races (e.g. Lewis did not retire yesterday) and sometimes drivers limp on and retire from lower positions even though the reliability issue strikes while in the lead (e.g. Vettel is shown as retiring from P5 yesterday and I'm not completely sure why).

It clearly means that we can't rely on Forix.

[surbjits]

Hakkinen in Spain is probably the most infamous.

[Nonesuch]

Vettel is shown as retiring from P5 yesterday and I'm not completely sure why.

Did he pass the timing line before coming to a stop? That might have registered him passing the line at very low speed, after being passed by a number of cars. Hence P5, because he retired a lap 'too late'?

But I seem to recall him stopping fairly early on the S/F straight, so this might not be the actual reason.

Edited by Nonesuch, 01 July 2013 - 20:03.

[EMorris]

According to Forix, Lewis has retired from the lead on three occasions. Fernando is the same . Sebastien is also the same. I only see two for Kimi.

However, these figures relate to retirements, and not just lost races (e.g. Lewis did not retire yesterday) and sometimes drivers limp on and retire from lower positions even though the reliability issue strikes while in the lead (e.g. Vettel is shown as retiring from P5 yesterday and I'm not completely sure why).

He was in 5th position when he rolled over the start/finish line before coming to a stop

[garoidb]

It clearly means that we can't rely on Forix.

I'm sure there is a reason for it. I'll see if I can find out. I would say the Forix information is probably extremely accurate, too much so for the purposes of this thread. I imagine it records, cold bloodedly, the position the driver held at the time he retired, which is not what we really want to know.

[garoidb]

Did he pass the timing line before coming to a stop? That might have registered him passing the line at very low speed, after being passed by a number of cars. Hence P5, because he retired a lap 'too late'?

But I seem to recall him stopping fairly early on the S/F straight, so this might not be the actual reason.

He was in 5th position when he rolled over the start/finish line before coming to a stop

Thanks. I would imagine the reason is something along these lines.

[Craven Morehead]

Jean Alesi retired from the lead a bunch of times in the Ferrari and at least twice more in the Benetton.

[mclarensmps]

Never forget,

I was actually in tears when that happened

[Collombin]

The obvious contender is Moss, so I had a quick check and he appears to have retired from the lead 12 times. Think what his win % would have been

The turbo era was full of retirements from the lead - I am sure Prost is the most prolific victim (Piquet had a fair few too though, and Arnoux seemed to lead far more than he won).

[Disgrace]

Montoya in 2001 is another painful season of retirements from P1. Brazil, Germany and USA. Belgium would have been another one but for Williams screwing around on the grid. He also retired from P1 twice in 2003 (Austria, Japan), and once in 2005 (Hungary).

[rasul]

I'm sure there is a reason for it. I'll see if I can find out. I would say the Forix information is probably extremely accurate, too much so for the purposes of this thread. I imagine it records, cold bloodedly, the position the driver held at the time he retired, which is not what we really want to know.

If Forix says that Vettel had only 3 retirements from P1, it's definitely not true. I remember at least 5.

[joshb]

Vettel's last retirements:

Australia 2010- From the lead
Turkey 2010- Technically he did have a nose in front of Webber even though it was an attempted pass for the lead
Korea 2010- From the lead
Abu Dhabi 2011- Puncture from the lead, made it round to the pits, where they retired it
Valencia 2012- From the lead
Italy 2012- From 5th I think
GB 2012- From the lead

Why can't the thing die when he's P11 in Malaysia or P15 in Spa!!!

The one race he's inherited
Singapore 2012- Around 3 secs behind Hamilton- may/may not have been able to challenge

Edited by joshb, 01 July 2013 - 20:13.

[ensign14]

Just had a quick look at Stirling Moss' record - eight mechanical failures from the lead...if Colotti hadn't effed up the simple task of casting a gearbox, and had Walker noticed that the thing that kept breaking was the gearbox, he'd've waltzed the 1959 title; he lost 3 wins and a second as a direct result that season alone.

To put that into some context, the points Moss lost through gearbox failures in 1959 were enough to come second in the world title on their own.

Quick edit: make that nine, if one includes Monaco 1955, which he led on track for about sixteen seconds but never got around to complete the lap in he lead. Or take it back to eight as he missed a gear at Spa in 1958.

Edited by ensign14, 01 July 2013 - 20:18.

[Atreiu]

It clearly means that we can't rely on Forix.

Nah, we can but we have to be able to dig through the numbers and also pair our memory.
Vettel probably crossed the line at watever slow speed possible before coming to a full stop in 5th and that's officially where he retired from.

[joshb]

How many has Hamilton lost through retirement?

Abu Dhabi, Singapore, Brazil in 2012
must be one or 2 others

Then he's lost others like yesterday through punctures etc

[ensign14]

Jim Clark must be up there.

Perhaps the single most arresting statistic in World Championship history is Clark had 25 wins but only 1 second place - and that was due to a fouled engine which dropped him from the lead. If he were capable of winning, he won.

But I can only find five lead retirements for him. Which of course does not include e.g. Monza 1967 where Chapman's obsession with lightness cost him a churn of fuel and an astonishing victory.

[OO7]

How many has Hamilton lost through retirement?

Abu Dhabi, Singapore, Brazil in 2012
must be one or 2 others

Then he's lost others like yesterday through punctures etc

Abu Dhabi in 2009.

[Collombin]

I make it 13 for Prost, but Moss' 12 still takes the moral unlucky crown, because Prost had far more races and far more of the retirements were his own fault.

[Radion]

Vettel's last retirements:

Australia 2010- From the lead
Turkey 2010- Technically he did have a nose in front of Webber even though it was an attempted pass for the lead
Korea 2010- From the lead
Abu Dhabi 2011- Puncture from the lead, made it round to the pits, where they retired it
Valencia 2012- From the lead
Italy 2012- From 5th I think
GB 2012- From the lead

Why can't the thing die when he's P11 in Malaysia or P15 in Spa!!!

The one race he's inherited
Singapore 2012- Around 3 secs behind Hamilton- may/may not have been able to challenge

How many has Hamilton lost through retirement?

Abu Dhabi, Singapore, Brazil in 2012
must be one or 2 others

Then he's lost others like yesterday through punctures etc

What are we talking about here exactly?
Retirements, caused by technical failure or retirement due to contact/driver error?
By the way @joshb: Italy 2012 wasn't really an retirement from the lead!

[Zava]

Abu Dhabi in 2009.

Vettel jumped him in the pits after keeping up with more fuel on board, Hamilton was second.

[Realyn]

Never forget,

There was a car on the pit straight, let's get our forks out.

[Collombin]

Perhaps the single most arresting statistic in World Championship history is Clark had 25 wins but only 1 second place

It is weird that he was a more prolific runner up in the Indy 500 than in WDC races.

[joshb]

Abu Dhabi in 2009.

Well that's debatable... Hamilton had brake problems which affected his pace from very early on but Vettel had already passed him in the pitstops before Hamilton pulled out

[joshb]

What are we talking about here exactly?
Retirements, caused by technical failure or retirement due to contact/driver error?
By the way @joshb: Italy 2012 wasn't really an retirement from the lead!

I didn't say Monza 2012 was from the lead- merely pointing out that 6 of his last 7 retirements were from the lead
We're talking about any form of retirement (crash, mechanical etc) but it must be a race ending retirement, not a problem which hindered the car (as in Bahrain 2010 for Vettel- he still finished that race)

[DampMongoose]

Jean Behra led a huge number of races without a win in the world championship, might be a contender, Mansell had a few significant ones too if memory serves...

[Collombin]

Jean Behra led a huge number of races without a win in the world championship, might be a contender, Mansell had a few significant ones too if memory serves...

On the other hand, he once led the championship after the first race of the season despite not winning that race!

[OO7]

Vettel jumped him in the pits after keeping up with more fuel on board, Hamilton was second.

He had been nursing a rear brake problem which eventually lead to his retirement.

[rijole1]

I was actually in tears when that happened

I know, me too...just heartbreaking

[jj2728]

It is weird that he was a more prolific runner up in the Indy 500 than in WDC races.

And not to forget that JYS retired from the lead in the '66 500.

[Kobasmashi]

Someone's already mentioned Prost from the Renault, in 1982 the Renaults were practically expected to run off into the distance and break down. Was it 1983 or 84 when Nelson Piquet had a rocketship (and badass-looking) Brabham with a time bomb BMW engine? I remember watching the season review for that year and he must have dropped out of the lead quite a few times that season alone.

[garoidb]

Someone's already mentioned Prost from the Renault, in 1982 the Renaults were practically expected to run off into the distance and break down. Was it 1983 or 84 when Nelson Piquet had a rocketship (and badass-looking) Brabham with a time bomb BMW engine? I remember watching the season review for that year and he must have dropped out of the lead quite a few times that season alone.

1984 I would think. He had nine pole positions and led 8 of the races, but only won 2.

[Collombin]

1984 I would think. He had nine pole positions and led 8 of the races, but only won 2.

Only retired from the lead 3 times that season, it seems. Funny how your memory plays tricks, I'd have guessed at least twice that many.

[fisssssi]

Not to ruin this thread with some basic maths and probability but...

Vettel's relatively high number of retirements while leading may coincide with the relatively high percentage of race laps he actually leads. You know, if he's usually out in front then that's where he's going to be when the car breaks down...

Perhaps if we compared driver's percentage of laps lead with the number of times they retired from the lead as a percentage of race starts... that might be slightly more worthwhile?

[hupholland]

Vettel also lost the lead in Brazil 2011 because of technical problems and as mentioned before, Bahrain 2010. Well, in the end it never cost him the championship (maybe this year?), so I guess there's a good mix of reliability and speed