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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04 - PART III


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#1 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:14

Probably a good time to start a new thread.

Let's get something very clear - this thread is for discussing the car, it is not the place for discussion, insinuation or anything else pertaining to how you feel about Mercedes or any other team or driver being cheats or not.

Furthermore it is not a Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg or Lewis vs Nico thread.

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#2 Watkins74

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:18

edit: thread in transition, copy and pasted from previous thread.

Tabatha Valls: @tabathavalls9m

"HAM is over half a second faster than anyone else (except ROS, +0.2) in Sector 1. That’s where he’s making the difference. Big time #F1"


Looks like he's nailing the heavy breaking then...... at last..... Good old CI


Seeing your avatar it makes me miss Haug and wonder what he is thinking of all this.

Edited by Watkins74, 05 July 2013 - 10:19.


#3 slmk

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:19

Thank you for the new thread. I was about to start it, but made more sense to let a mod.

Re: FP1, great job by Mercedes, though I'm convinced that Mercedes pushed slightly more due to upgrades on the car, as opposed to them being genuinely 1 second faster than the rest.

#4 MeatPopsicle

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:21

Was either of them running the passive DRS does anyone know?

Edited by MeatPopsicle, 05 July 2013 - 10:22.


#5 maverick69

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:22

edit: thread in transition, copy and pasted from previous thread.


Seeing your avatar it makes me miss Haug and wonder what he is thinking of all this.


Haha!

He's probably tucking into a ft long Bratwurst with a tear in his eye as we speak!

All joking aside - he must surely take some credit for the foundations put in place to develop a car like this (see that I got the car in there :p )

#6 maverick69

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:23

Was either of them running the passive DRS does anyone know?


Nico for the first few laps

#7 Obi Offiah

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:24

Was either of them running the passive DRS does anyone know?

Nico ran it for a few laps early in the session.

#8 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:26

Nico for the first few laps

Installation lap only, then they took it off. Ross said it was meant to be trialled at YDT but thats another story

#9 UPRC

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:26

It's blowing my mind how quickly Mercedes is improving this year after wallowing around like fools for a few seasons. If it wasn't so hot out, I'd wear my Mercedes coat on race day to support the boys (mainly Nico though, I've been tooting his horn since his debut).

The endless hiring of technical geniuses is finally paying off. :up:

#10 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:30

so, anyone know how the change to last years tyres for hungary will affect the mercs? will they lose any of this perceived progress from these last few races? i think a few might be counting chickens before they are hatched.

#11 V3TT3L

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:31

The endless hiring of technical geniuses is finally paying off. :up:

It took a while because there weren't many shop floor workers to build the parts, just managers and directors :rotfl:

#12 Obi Offiah

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:33

so, anyone know how the change to last years tyres for hungary will affect the mercs? will they lose any of this perceived progress from these last few races? i think a few might be counting chickens before they are hatched.

We ultimately won't know until the cars are run in Hungary, however I think the 2012 structures will promote less degradation.

#13 KiloWatt

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:58

so, anyone know how the change to last years tyres for hungary will affect the mercs? will they lose any of this perceived progress from these last few races? i think a few might be counting chickens before they are hatched.


I'm worried about this. I think it's 50/50 that it will help them or hurt them... If it does hurt them, we can just hope that they'll recover quickly.

#14 Fangiola

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:01

I'm worried about this. I think it's 50/50 that it will help them or hurt them... If it does hurt them, we can just hope that they'll recover quickly.

Or do another secret test :)

#15 F1ultimate

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:02

I'm hoping for a dominant Red Bull-esque weekend with a comfortable 1-2. The team deserves one given how hard they have worked in turning things around post-Brawn 2009.

#16 Asterion

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:24

Hoping for a 1-2 finish at the end of the race. Future looks bright.

#17 KiloWatt

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:34

Or do another secret test :)


That'll help, just keep it secret this time... :rotfl:

#18 race addicted

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:37

Positively surprised to suddenly learn that they've been trialling a PDRS! I had written that off completely.

First signs looking very, very good from Mercedes, and I too miss Norbert Haug btw.

#19 akshay380

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:39

Was Norby at Merc garage? They showed someone on world feed just after HAMs first timed run on softs.

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#20 bonjon1979a

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:41

Not looking as good on the soft.

#21 slmk

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:42

Not looking as good on the soft.


Looking pretty bad actually.

RBR consistently faster in all sectors.

#22 superdelphinus

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:44

Suggests a bit more fuel to me

#23 Markn93

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:45

Think they're running a fair bit more fuel. Lewis only improved 3 tenths on this morning's time with a tyre on Webber that was 9 tenths faster than the medium, plus Lewis didn't get a good lap in on these softs. We'll see tomorrow and in the long runs.

#24 weltmeister1995

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:48

Think they're running a fair bit more fuel. Lewis only improved 3 tenths on this morning's time with a tyre on Webber that was 9 tenths faster than the medium, plus Lewis didn't get a good lap in on these softs. We'll see tomorrow and in the long runs.

Sorry but red bull is usually heavier in P1,P2,if they look good in practice,then they have a good shot for the pole.
Maybe mercedes mess up the setup,or the new parts aren"t working as suspected.
It will be a fight for the pole between red bull,mercedes.Red bull is looking better on race pace,and in qualy mercedes have a little advantage,but maybe red bull will find time to get pole...

#25 jrg19

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:52

Im going to call fuel, both the Mercs stayed out longer too.

#26 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:52

They've probably taken a bad setup turn or have put more fuel in. Think how early they set the time in FP1 on mediums. That pace doesn't just disappear!

#27 maverick69

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:53

Think they're running a fair bit more fuel. Lewis only improved 3 tenths on this morning's time with a tyre on Webber that was 9 tenths faster than the medium, plus Lewis didn't get a good lap in on these softs. We'll see tomorrow and in the long runs.


Lewis had significant understeer on every corner - which would suggest a healthy glug of fuel. Potentially it was simulation of the 1st stop.

They will defo want to dial a bit of that out though - so no doubt some set-up work going on.

#28 SamH123

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:53

Sorry but red bull is usually heavier in P1,P2,if they look good in practice,then they have a good shot for the pole.
Maybe mercedes mess up the setup,or the new parts aren"t working as suspected.
It will be a fight for the pole between red bull,mercedes.Red bull is looking better on race pace,and in qualy mercedes have a little advantage,but maybe red bull will find time to get pole...


Not sure I agree about RB running heavier

FP1 & FP2 have had very similar results to the Chinese GP FP1 & FP2, where Hamilton took pole

#29 Lamag

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:58

Rosberg did a mistake during his first flying lap with soft and had to abort it, then his second flying lap was ruined by traffic and had to abort it. It was during his third lap when he was capable of doing a clean flying lap and still he was able to being two tens off Vettel.

#30 slmk

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:34

Doesn't look like the slew of upgrades did much to help Mercedes gain pace.
Shows that the more visibles updates are oftentimes the least effective.

Mercedes vs RBR for pole, Mercedes's best hope for the race, as we stand, is a podium finish. RBR looks so strong.

#31 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:37

I don't think its as clear cut as it seems.

#32 meddo

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:40

I've heard all of your rants last race also. Wait for it...
It will be Mercedes vs. Red bull till the last race.

#33 Boxerevo

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:42

1 30 still high times,lets wait for FP3.

#34 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:43

Vettel: They (Mercedes) were bloody quick this morning, we couldn't have done that time.

Edited by TomNokoe, 05 July 2013 - 13:43.


#35 slmk

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:46

Vettel: They (Mercedes) were bloody quick this morning, we couldn't have done that time.


Well, that's BS, because they did even better!

#36 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:48

Well, that's BS, because they did even better!

1:31.7 on green track baseline setup Webber only went half a second faster in FP2, I don't know.

#37 Obi Offiah

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:48

Well, that's BS, because they did even better!

He meant they couldn't do that time in FP1.

#38 weltmeister1995

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:52

Vettel: They (Mercedes) were bloody quick this morning, we couldn't have done that time.

Yes that"s true,but now the red bulls find the new setup and also some updates,and its working amazing.They are really good in race pace and in 1 lap pace.
You never know,Mercedes drivers are more then 40 points behind,that"s really a lot.So if vettel get"s some wins in next 5 races,he will walk this.Huh and when the second part of the season comes,with the part of Asia races,Japan,Singapur,Korea,India,you know which car is the fastest here for 3 years.If mercedes want both WDC,WCC they have to get the max points out of next 4 races(Germany,Hungary,Spa,Monza),if they don"t its game over.

#39 slmk

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:53

He meant they couldn't do that time in FP1.


I know that. But even then, it's BS. The only thing it shows is that Mercedes' baseline setup was great, but it doesn't have any influence on their perforrmance in Q or the race. The track will be rubbered in, likely hotter too. Mercedes seems sort of lost in their setups right now, while RBR and FER seem to have found a sweet spot.

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#40 Fangiola

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:56

Some info and pics of the passive DRS

http://www.gptoday.c...s_to_trial_DRD/

#41 JaredS

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:57

I know that. But even then, it's BS. The only thing it shows is that Mercedes' baseline setup was great, but it doesn't have any influence on their perforrmance in Q or the race. The track will be rubbered in, likely hotter too. Mercedes seems sort of lost in their setups right now, while RBR and FER seem to have found a sweet spot.


It's only my guess, but personally I *think* that Merc spent FP1 on low fuel pace and FP2 mainly on race pace. I think they were simply heavier than Red Bull, especially Lewis. We'll know for sure in quali.

#42 bauss

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:00

a 30.4 is pretty damn quick, Webber on pole did 30.0 in 2011. it does look to me we have a bit more deg than the RBs here and as for out and out lap pace, its unclear.... something btw a Canada n Silverstone.

#43 Speedoholic

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:00

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
"The pace of the Mercedes cars this morning was quite a shock to everyone in the paddock," says @Susie_Wolff on @BBC5LiveF1

Heavy fuel runs in FP2?

#44 maverick69

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:02

The car showed good baseline pace - and they clearly got pretty much a full test of what is a very substantial upgrade. That clearly now needs be analysed.

Also, track temps are going to be a fair bit warmer tomorrow - so you don't really want to go "chasing" a perfect set-up just yet..... particularly with the behavior of the option tyres.

IMHO, all in all, a pretty satisfactory day, with some work to do. But I am confident that they are there or there abouts for winning this race (pref Hamilton), although the Bulls, as ever, will be strong.


#45 jrg19

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:03

Maybe holding back in FP2 to not draw too much attention, that 1 second in FP1 was insane.

#46 maverick69

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:05

Maybe holding back in FP2 to not draw too much attention, that 1 second in FP1 was insane.


Maybe they fitted the suspension upside-down :p

#47 Delta1

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:05

Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
"The pace of the Mercedes cars this morning was quite a shock to everyone in the paddock," says @Susie_Wolff on @BBC5LiveF1

Heavy fuel runs in FP2?



I think they are sandbagging. Hamilton especially probably cruised on his hot lap, as he lost tenths in each sector, and was suspiciously slow.

#48 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:05

I don't think we're gonna get any answers until Q3!

#49 maverick69

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:06

I think they are sandbagging. Hamilton especially probably cruised on his hot lap, as he lost tenths in each sector, and was suspiciously slow.


Lots of understeer on each corner..... which probably means plenty of juice......

#50 jrg19

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:07

I pretty sure it was mentioned during the session by Ant too, can't wait for qualifying to find out.