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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04 - PART III


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#1001 alframsey

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 19:24

Depends what you consider 'not shit'.

Well personally I'm more of a Independent or Guardian man, I know some people can't stand the guardian either :p Little off topic though haha

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#1002 stanga

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 19:27

Well personally I'm more of a Independent or Guardian man, I know some people can't stand the guardian either :p Little off topic though haha


The Grauniad is a joke of a paper. But there is no accounting for taste. :p

#1003 HopkinsonF1

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:26

The Grauniad is a joke of a paper. But there is no accounting for taste. :p

Putting aside politics, The Guardian, Times and Financial Times are the best papers we have in terms of incisive insight, quality of writing and commitment to investigative journalism. Although the Guardian's current F1 correspondent is a complete joke – Richard Williams was a big loss for them.

Compared to those papers, the Telegraph is a bizarre throwback. Little investigative journalism, a laughable editorial agenda, science reporting on par with the Mail and far too many tabloid pieces filling in the gaps. And the Independent's problem, to put it bluntly, is that it isn't very good.

#1004 SophieB

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:38

Enough of newspaper chat, folks.

#1005 SophieB

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:22

Not really any fresh update, but eh, summer break.

Team still unsure what caused Rosberg's "unusual" engine failure

It's been frustrating that we've had problems with the car and doubly frustrating I'm sure for Nico they've occurred all on his car.

"We had two chassis problems earlier in the year, we stabilised, and then we had an engine failure at the last race.

"That was a very unusual failure. We've not had an engine failure I think since 2008. We're investigating the recent failure. As I say, it was very unusual; we don't know what's happened."



#1006 undersquare

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:34

Not really any fresh update, but eh, summer break.

Team still unsure what caused Rosberg's "unusual" engine failure

I remember reliability was a big thing Brawn took to Ferrari back in 1996 or whenever it was. But Nico seems to have taken over from Schumi as the guy with the least reliable car on the grid. Let's hope that's the lot for this year. I like the 'work more intelligently' line anyway, even if it's a bit obvious.

#1007 Lamag

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 13:07

This season so far Rosberg ha three DNFs. He have more DNFs than any other driver in the top six of the WDC. He has 84 points and he probably lost close to 30 points with those DNFs this year.

Its a shame for Mercedes Benz to have a driver capable of fighting for the championship with such reliability issues on his car.

Edited by Lamag, 07 August 2013 - 13:08.


#1008 Markn93

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 13:16

Looking at the positions he's retired from I'd revise that number.

#1009 Kvothe

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 13:29

This season so far Rosberg ha three DNFs. He have more DNFs than any other driver in the top six of the WDC. He has 84 points and he probably lost close to 30 points with those DNFs this year.

Its a shame for Mercedes Benz to have a driver capable of fighting for the championship with such reliability issues on his car.


Australia 4th, but what would have been a net 6th place behind Hamilton (loss 8 points)

China was 12th after the second pit stop just before he retired, had been running in ninth (loss 0/2 points)

Hungary, was 9th when retired (loss 2 points)

I don't think 30 is a good estimation.

Edited by Kvothe, 07 August 2013 - 13:30.


#1010 slmk

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 13:36

Australia 4th, but what would have been a net 6th place behind Hamilton (loss 8 points)

China was 12th after the second pit stop just before he retired, had been running in ninth (loss 0/2 points)

Hungary, was 9th when retired (loss 2 points)

I don't think 30 is a good estimation.


Lewis lost more points from his tyre blowout than all of Rosberg's DNFs (per the above).

#1011 MP422

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 15:02

30 points !! Not even close. More like 8-12 !

#1012 Timstr11

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 15:17

Pirelli thinks the Hungary pace is not due to the new tyres but due to something Mercedes did to to the car to control the effect of high temperatures: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109211

Edited by Timstr11, 07 August 2013 - 15:18.


#1013 bauss

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 15:28

Pirelli thinks the Hungary pace is not due to the new tyres but due to something Mercedes did to to the car to control the effect of high temperatures: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109211



interesting, wonder what that means going forward...so hoping we have a competitive 2nd half

#1014 Markn93

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 15:48

Pirelli thinks the Hungary pace is not due to the new tyres but due to something Mercedes did to to the car to control the effect of high temperatures: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109211

Hope they're right. Rather the team finally figured it out than lucked into it.

Edited by Markn93, 07 August 2013 - 15:49.


#1015 Juggles

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 15:48

It's read by people who think the country is run by another country


Kudos to you, sir. Yes Minister reference for those who haven't seen it.

As for Hembery's comments, I'm now slightly confused as to where Mercedes' race pace weakness is. If the new tyres were irrelevant then Hungary suggests they are fine in the heat and Silverstone suggested they are fine on a high speed, twisty track. Why then was their race pace comparatively poor at the Nurburgring, perhaps the place you'd expect least trouble out of the last three races for a car that eats its tyres? Maybe it's now just a question of set up? It's becoming very hard to predict when these race pace issues will rear their head again, if indeed they do.

#1016 bauss

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 16:01

Kudos to you, sir. Yes Minister reference for those who haven't seen it.

As for Hembery's comments, I'm now slightly confused as to where Mercedes' race pace weakness is. If the new tyres were irrelevant then Hungary suggests they are fine in the heat and Silverstone suggested they are fine on a high speed, twisty track. Why then was their race pace comparatively poor at the Nurburgring, perhaps the place you'd expect least trouble out of the last three races for a car that eats its tyres? Maybe it's now just a question of set up? It's becoming very hard to predict when these race pace issues will rear their head again, if indeed they do.


could be that they lucked into it in SStone but didnt realize what exactly was the key.

Nurburgring failure and the success of Hungary should make them have a pretty solid idea of what exactly they need to do setup wise going forward.

#1017 JaredS

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 16:15

This season so far Rosberg ha three DNFs. He have more DNFs than any other driver in the top six of the WDC. He has 84 points and he probably lost close to 30 points with those DNFs this year.

Its a shame for Mercedes Benz to have a driver capable of fighting for the championship with such reliability issues on his car.


I think it's a little harsh to be calling Nico a car breaker already. I did wonder if he's maybe over driving it in order to keep pace with Lewis, but I don't think there's enough proof for such claims.

#1018 SophieB

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 16:52

I don't see anything in Lamag's post blaming Rosberg for the W04's reliability issues. :confused:

#1019 Xeriks

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 16:54

Very strange post, he said nothing of the sort, he sure isn't blaming him for his reliability problems.

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#1020 Szoelloe

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 17:33

I think it's a little harsh to be calling Nico a car breaker already. I did wonder if he's maybe over driving it in order to keep pace with Lewis, but I don't think there's enough proof for such claims.


ehmm, LOL?

#1021 undersquare

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 18:05

ehmm, LOL?

I reckon a little bit of fun was being poked :D

#1022 PAGATRON

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 20:44

You know I was wondering which fuels/oils FI was using was it Petronas or Mobil, so I did some digging
and it seems Mac, FI and Merc are all using Mobil. So is Merc's deal with Petronas just on commercial basis?

#1023 Spoch

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 20:51

You know I was wondering which fuels/oils FI was using was it Petronas or Mobil, so I did some digging
and it seems Mac, FI and Merc are all using Mobil. So is Merc's deal with Petronas just on commercial basis?

Yes....purely commercial....even merc road cars carry a plate in the engine recommending mobil 1

#1024 mlsnoopy

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:57

You know I was wondering which fuels/oils FI was using was it Petronas or Mobil, so I did some digging
and it seems Mac, FI and Merc are all using Mobil. So is Merc's deal with Petronas just on commercial basis?


When you spent 20 years developing the engine with one oil partner it would be foolish to change it.

#1025 JaredS

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:42

I don't see anything in Lamag's post blaming Rosberg for the W04's reliability issues. :confused:


Sorry, entirely my fault.

I had went to post:

----
Could it be that Nico's driving style is causing him to suffer more DNFs? Though I think it's a little harsh to be calling Nico a car breaker already. I did wonder if he's maybe over driving it in order to keep pace with Lewis, but I don't think there's enough proof for such claims.
----

But the post was tongue in cheek, as I don't think there's any chance that Nico is at fault for the poor reliability.

#1026 jjcale

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 19:16

Has anyone seen the cartoon in this week's Autosport ... is about next year's Merc engine - what do you think the cartoonist is trying to say??

I am a little worried that he is hinting at something not being quite right with the engine.... or his he poking fun at the relationship between Lauda and Brawn?

#1027 SophieB

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 19:26

I think it's just poking gentle fun at the contrast between Merc unveiling the sound of their engine with pride on YT and the general public reaction to that sound.

#1028 jjcale

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 19:31

I think it's just poking gentle fun at the contrast between Merc unveiling the sound of their engine with pride on YT and the general public reaction to that sound.


Ah... thanks. Been swamped this week - no idea what is going on in the world ATM.

... that's a relief - both for Merc and the other teams depending on them for a good engine.

#1029 karlth

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 16:24

Decision to stop developing 2013 car difficult says Rosberg

More wins in 2013, or the 2014 title? Nico Rosberg is in two minds about how Mercedes should tackle the second half of this season. But with the sweeping rules changes for 2014 looming, and some teams already turning their full focus to the new cars, Rosberg is unsure how Mercedes should proceed.

Speaking to Germany's Auto Motor und Sport, he seemed to acknowledge that, notwithstanding Mercedes' absolutely front-running car, the chance of winning the 2013 title is slim. What Rosberg is implying is that Mercedes might now consider simply switching the full weight of the team's resources to the 2014 project.

"The progress we have made, however, is huge," Rosberg explained. "But our goal is to be where Sebastian (Vettel) is."

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns26073.html?


:stoned:

PS. Ross is quoted in the article saying, quite sensibly, that any decision will only be taken after the new update packages at Spa and Monza have proven their worth. Unlike McLaren's Whitmarsh Ross knows how to win a championship.

Edited by karlth, 10 August 2013 - 16:26.


#1030 Boxerevo

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 16:28

I will read this and not think about i would think normally because i still like Rosberg very much as a team mate. (Fan of mind games :smoking: )

Agree with you Karlth,Ross will know what to do.

Edited by Boxerevo, 10 August 2013 - 16:31.


#1031 study

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 17:48

If Rosberg was in Lewis place I'm not sure he would be saying the same.

Whats the problem anyway, it was only a while ago that people where moaning that they had too many designers and tech heads. It shouldn't be a issue to spread them around and do both.

#1032 Juggles

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 17:58

To be fair Rosberg isn't committing one way or the other. He's correct to say that if it's just about getting more wins this season then they should pour everything into 2014 but, as it stands, the WCC and WDC are both still to play for. Also, I can't seriously believe that Mercedes will be underprepared for 2014 given the emphasis they've placed on it since halfway through last year. For now at least it's worth pumping that performance into the W04.

#1033 undersquare

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 18:04

If Rosberg was in Lewis place I'm not sure he would be saying the same.

Whats the problem anyway, it was only a while ago that people where moaning that they had too many designers and tech heads. It shouldn't be a issue to spread them around and do both.

I'd imagine it's things like windtunnel time, CFD time, model-making and so on. Yeah I don't know why they'd ask Nico anyway, 2013 can only be Lewis now so Nico is bound to be hoping for a fresh start next year and want the team to concentrate on that.

And Ross is probably going to be thinking about forcing Red Bull to keep resources on this year, too. The last thing anybody needs is for Newey to be able to go 100% on next year in September.

#1034 femi

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 05:56

I'd imagine it's things like windtunnel time, CFD time, model-making and so on. Yeah I don't know why they'd ask Nico anyway, 2013 can only be Lewis now so Nico is bound to be hoping for a fresh start next year and want the team to concentrate on that.

And Ross is probably going to be thinking about forcing Red Bull to keep resources on this year, too. The last thing anybody needs is for Newey to be able to go 100% on next year in September.


I think it is a safe bet that he is not just thinking about it, he is doing it. Ross is a skillful and smooth operator. He ripped through Mclaren and in parallel to that has delivered a competitive package and in-season car development that IMHO is so far unparalleled. What had been one of RB's strong point was the difficulty to lure away staff from them. Mercedes has turned itself into a team that most in the paddock will be proud to be associated with next to them apart from RB is Ferrari but I sense Ferrari is looking tired and old...

Mercedes can and should start attacking the RB team stability assuming that is not already happening.

#1035 undersquare

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 13:11

I think it is a safe bet that he is not just thinking about it, he is doing it. Ross is a skillful and smooth operator. He ripped through Mclaren and in parallel to that has delivered a competitive package and in-season car development that IMHO is so far unparalleled. What had been one of RB's strong point was the difficulty to lure away staff from them. Mercedes has turned itself into a team that most in the paddock will be proud to be associated with next to them apart from RB is Ferrari but I sense Ferrari is looking tired and old...

Mercedes can and should start attacking the RB team stability assuming that is not already happening.

Yep it's now looking like one of the top two teams - in the news ALL the time, all those poles, and now the wins. Monty and Horner bitching about testgate which is a great sign, and the Brawn/Hamilton axis starting to look rather scary :smoking:

Anyone would want to be at Mercedes now.

#1036 IAMG

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 14:04

Yep it's now looking like one of the top two teams - in the news ALL the time, all those poles, and now the wins. Monty and Horner bitching about testgate which is a great sign, and the Brawn/Hamilton axis starting to look rather scary :smoking:

Anyone would want to be at Mercedes now.


:up:
Regardless of what Lauda says LH went to Merc cuz of Brawn. Brawn is the man. He is super cool under pressure and strategizes with his

instincts not just computer readouts. He has tremendous faith in LH's ability and I believe will allow him to make racing decisions. His radio

transmission in Hungary was classic. Man I am driving here I love the car, just let me be.Remember Hungary 2008 when LH requested to

park the car. 'No Lewis ur a chump just shut up and drive'

#1037 JaredS

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 14:20

Has anyone seen the cartoon in this week's Autosport ... is about next year's Merc engine - what do you think the cartoonist is trying to say??

I am a little worried that he is hinting at something not being quite right with the engine.... or his he poking fun at the relationship between Lauda and Brawn?


Errrm how on earth would Autosport know if there was something not quite right with the engine anyway? The only thing that Mercedes has released to the public is the sound of it.

#1038 JaredS

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 14:42

His radio transmission in Hungary was classic. Man I am driving here I love the car, just let me be.


Actually what was said was a bit different:

Race engineer: Ok Lewis, traction metrics are under 2000 and temps are looking good.
Lewis: Please just let me drive man.

I disagree it was a classic. It was both stupid and rude. Something that Kimi would usually say and it'd be just as stupid and rude if Kimi does it.

His engineer is giving Lewis data and affirmation of the tyres. Those 4 round black bits that have caused Mercedes all sorts of problems this season and Lewis personally to go backwards in races and lose a few races. So the engineer giving data about the tyres is hugely important and his engineer was actually giving him good news and confirming to Lewis that he should just keep doing what he's doing as it was working.

I don't understand Lewis' reaction to that. I'll put it down to bad mood over the whole state of his personal life and probably a lot of nervousness about not being sure how the race will pan out and if tyres will hold. But I hope he reviews it and improves his communication with his race engineer. I must say his race engineer has been fantastic so far.

#1039 OO7

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 14:49

Actually what was said was a bit different:

Race engineer: Ok Lewis, traction metrics are under 2000 and temps are looking good.
Lewis: Please just let me drive man.

I disagree it was a classic. It was both stupid and rude. Something that Kimi would usually say and it'd be just as stupid and rude if Kimi does it.

His engineer is giving Lewis data and affirmation of the tyres. Those 4 round black bits that have caused Mercedes all sorts of problems this season and Lewis personally to go backwards in races and lose a few races. So the engineer giving data about the tyres is hugely important and his engineer was actually giving him good news and confirming to Lewis that he should just keep doing what he's doing as it was working.

I don't understand Lewis' reaction to that. I'll put it down to bad mood over the whole state of his personal life and probably a lot of nervousness about not being sure how the race will pan out and if tyres will hold. But I hope he reviews it and improves his communication with his race engineer. I must say his race engineer has been fantastic so far.

The don't think Lewis' response was particularly rude and we have to consider the usefulness of the information during a time when a driver may not want to be distracted. If Lewis didn't have to alter any part of his task then the information wasn't of any particular use. If the broadcast was made while he was negotiating a bend, then it could have been quite distracting. Also I don't believe that message was from Hungary.

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#1040 Boxerevo

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 15:05

I don't like rudeness too but talking distract like hell.

Everytime my gf got in to talk with me something... if i really processed what she said... i got in "instantaneous" error prone mode.

Sometimes the error came with a delay... so i never played anymore with her in house. :lol:

Edited by Boxerevo, 11 August 2013 - 15:05.


#1041 Moore

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 15:47

Actually what was said was a bit different:

Race engineer: Ok Lewis, traction metrics are under 2000 and temps are looking good.
Lewis: Please just let me drive man.

I disagree it was a classic. It was both stupid and rude. Something that Kimi would usually say and it'd be just as stupid and rude if Kimi does it.

His engineer is giving Lewis data and affirmation of the tyres. Those 4 round black bits that have caused Mercedes all sorts of problems this season and Lewis personally to go backwards in races and lose a few races. So the engineer giving data about the tyres is hugely important and his engineer was actually giving him good news and confirming to Lewis that he should just keep doing what he's doing as it was working.

I don't understand Lewis' reaction to that. I'll put it down to bad mood over the whole state of his personal life and probably a lot of nervousness about not being sure how the race will pan out and if tyres will hold. But I hope he reviews it and improves his communication with his race engineer. I must say his race engineer has been fantastic so far.


This is the actual transcript from F1fanatic.

59 Peter Bonnington: Can you go diff entry four, diff high speed four.

59 Lewis Hamilton: Hey man, I’m trying to focus here, I’m happy with the way the car is. Do you want me to increase pace?

59 Peter Bonnington: Just keep doing what you’re doing at the moment.

http://www.f1fanatic...dio-transcript/

Edited by Moore, 11 August 2013 - 15:51.


#1042 Juggles

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 15:48

The don't think Lewis' response was particularly rude and we have to consider the usefulness of the information during a time when a driver may not want to be distracted. If Lewis didn't have to alter any part of his task then the information wasn't of any particular use. If the broadcast was made while he was negotiating a bend, then it could have been quite distracting. Also I don't believe that message was from Hungary.


You're right, I think the one quoted was from a few races ago. I've heard similar transmissions three times this season but the one from Hungary popped up in the race edit:

Bonnington - "Ok Lewis, diff high speed 4."

Hamilton - "Hey man, I'm trying to focus here. I'm happy with the way the car is."

1:54 of Hungary race edit

Obviously we don't have the communications from before and after. Just listening to that exchange I can understand why Bonnington wanted to make sure Hamilton's car was totally optimised at all times but also why Hamilton felt the car was fine and didn't want to start fiddling around with it. If you have a car which already has the speed to comfortably win the race why risk tinkering? I'm sure the engineers were very nervous and so wanted to be as helpful as possible, but at that point Hamilton clearly just wanted to get on with it.

As I said Hamilton has been snappy with Bonnington a few times. I think eventually Bonnington will work out exactly when his driver needs information and when he doesn't. I remember Hamilton got quite irritated early last season because Andy Latham wasn't feeding him enough information. Now it seems Bonnington is feeding him too much, so let's hope they find a happy medium! I notice that Bonnington was previously a data engineer which could explain his ostensibly tech-heavy exchanges with Hamilton (and I assume Schumacher before).

#1043 JaredS

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 15:53

The don't think Lewis' response was particularly rude and we have to consider the usefulness of the information during a time when a driver may not want to be distracted. If Lewis didn't have to alter any part of his task then the information wasn't of any particular use. If the broadcast was made while he was negotiating a bend, then it could have been quite distracting. Also I don't believe that message was from Hungary.


My bad, it was from the Canadian GP

I agree if it was said during a corner etc. Kimi has said that previously - don't talk to me during a corner. But I think given the importance of tyre management and his engineer giving him very important information regarding that e.g if the traction and tyre temps were well within limits, the engineer is effectively letting Lewis know he can push more.

#1044 JaredS

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 15:55

You're right, I think the one quoted was from a few races ago. I've heard similar transmissions three times this season but the one from Hungary popped up in the race edit:

Bonnington - "Ok Lewis, diff high speed 4."

Hamilton - "Hey man, I'm trying to focus here. I'm happy with the way the car is."

1:54 of Hungary race edit

Obviously we don't have the communications from before and after. Just listening to that exchange I can understand why Bonnington wanted to make sure Hamilton's car was totally optimised at all times but also why Hamilton felt the car was fine and didn't want to start fiddling around with it. If you have a car which already has the speed to comfortably win the race why risk tinkering? I'm sure the engineers were very nervous and so wanted to be as helpful as possible, but at that point Hamilton clearly just wanted to get on with it.

As I said Hamilton has been snappy with Bonnington a few times. I think eventually Bonnington will work out exactly when his driver needs information and when he doesn't. I remember Hamilton got quite irritated early last season because Andy Latham wasn't feeding him enough information. Now it seems Bonnington is feeding him too much, so let's hope they find a happy medium! I notice that Bonnington was previously a data engineer which could explain his ostensibly tech-heavy exchanges with Hamilton (and I assume Schumacher before).


Nice post :up:

#1045 undersquare

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 16:09

I have a much better feel about Lewis/Bono than I used to about Lewis/Latham. All the drivers get emotional on the radio because it's so intense, but Lewis softens it with 'man' and that makes it inclusive and prevents it being arrogant or rude, afaic. It's early days in their relationship, anyway, I'm sure Bono knows the score.

#1046 bauss

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 17:33

those LH replies do sound quite snappy without context..but that is the thing... without context...who knows how many of those messages the guy relays to LH that LH thinks are unnecc. and distracting before he finally gives the snarky reply that gets broadcast.
In any case, you still sense the working relationship btw him n his engineer is good, comfortable n growing... the Andy one at Mac just felt cold throughout.... and like another poster said too much info is better than too little, which LH suffered from attimes at Mac.

Btw, it was very good to see them leave it up to LH to call in the first pitstop at Hungary. Even though some complained at the time that it put him behind Button...observing live timing, I knew it was the right moment to pit as the sectors were slow and it was obvious tires were going. There's no point running to some preset computer calculated lap just because...or trying to find clean air (you won't find anyway cos you will be slow on shot tires). Such common sense decision making was lacking attimes at Mac.


Back to the car, I sincerely hope they properly understand how to make the tires work now and they can nail the setup needed for any of the coming tracks...they would need it for that faint chance of overhauling 48 points and the WCC.

I have to admit I'm seriously looking forward to the next 9 races, whatever happens, it should be fun. I do hope my growing faith in the current Merc setup isn't premature or misplaced :)

Edited by bauss, 11 August 2013 - 17:35.


#1047 alframsey

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 17:36

You're right, I think the one quoted was from a few races ago. I've heard similar transmissions three times this season but the one from Hungary popped up in the race edit:

Bonnington - "Ok Lewis, diff high speed 4."

Hamilton - "Hey man, I'm trying to focus here. I'm happy with the way the car is."

1:54 of Hungary race edit

Obviously we don't have the communications from before and after. Just listening to that exchange I can understand why Bonnington wanted to make sure Hamilton's car was totally optimised at all times but also why Hamilton felt the car was fine and didn't want to start fiddling around with it. If you have a car which already has the speed to comfortably win the race why risk tinkering? I'm sure the engineers were very nervous and so wanted to be as helpful as possible, but at that point Hamilton clearly just wanted to get on with it.

As I said Hamilton has been snappy with Bonnington a few times. I think eventually Bonnington will work out exactly when his driver needs information and when he doesn't. I remember Hamilton got quite irritated early last season because Andy Latham wasn't feeding him enough information. Now it seems Bonnington is feeding him too much, so let's hope they find a happy medium! I notice that Bonnington was previously a data engineer which could explain his ostensibly tech-heavy exchanges with Hamilton (and I assume Schumacher before).

I will admit I've idea how Bonnington has been this season but he seems to be doing a better job than Latham, is that a common presumption? I wasn't a fan of Latham for Lewis tbh, not because he was bad but more because they just didn't seem to gel.

#1048 Moore

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:57

those LH replies do sound quite snappy without context..but that is the thing... without context...who knows how many of those messages the guy relays to LH that LH thinks are unnecc. and distracting before he finally gives the snarky reply that gets broadcast.
In any case, you still sense the working relationship btw him n his engineer is good, comfortable n growing... the Andy one at Mac just felt cold throughout.... and like another poster said too much info is better than too little, which LH suffered from attimes at Mac.

Btw, it was very good to see them leave it up to LH to call in the first pitstop at Hungary. Even though some complained at the time that it put him behind Button...observing live timing, I knew it was the right moment to pit as the sectors were slow and it was obvious tires were going. There's no point running to some preset computer calculated lap just because...or trying to find clean air (you won't find anyway cos you will be slow on shot tires). Such common sense decision making was lacking attimes at Mac.


Back to the car, I sincerely hope they properly understand how to make the tires work now and they can nail the setup needed for any of the coming tracks...they would need it for that faint chance of overhauling 48 points and the WCC.

I have to admit I'm seriously looking forward to the next 9 races, whatever happens, it should be fun. I do hope my growing faith in the current Merc setup isn't premature or misplaced :)


Search for the full race transcripts on f1fanatic they publish them after every race and they're a great read. Bono is an excellent engineer and he relays info to LH all race without complaint from LH. Its just a select few times were he actually comes across as snarky when speaking to bono and they seem to come later in the races.

#1049 IAMG

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 19:04

those LH replies do sound quite snappy without context..but that is the thing... without context...who knows how many of those messages the guy relays to LH that LH thinks are unnecc. and distracting before he finally gives the snarky reply that gets broadcast.
In any case, you still sense the working relationship btw him n his engineer is good, comfortable n growing... the Andy one at Mac just felt cold throughout.... and like another poster said too much info is better than too little, which LH suffered from attimes at Mac.

Btw, it was very good to see them leave it up to LH to call in the first pitstop at Hungary. Even though some complained at the time that it put him behind Button...observing live timing, I knew it was the right moment to pit as the sectors were slow and it was obvious tires were going. There's no point running to some preset computer calculated lap just because...or trying to find clean air (you won't find anyway cos you will be slow on shot tires). Such common sense decision making was lacking attimes at Mac.


Back to the car, I sincerely hope they properly understand how to make the tires work now and they can nail the setup needed for any of the coming tracks...they would need it for that faint chance of overhauling 48 points and the WCC.

I have to admit I'm seriously looking forward to the next 9 races, whatever happens, it should be fun. I do hope my growing faith in the current Merc setup isn't premature or misplaced :)


bauss my main man, right on point. they are not buying into the 'LH ain't cerebral myth'.
and faith can never be misplaced or premature. I will go on record and say LH 2013 wdc. I believe in the 2 important partnerships, the W04 no.s 9 and 10. and the pirelli tires,
and RB and LH. :eek:

#1050 peroa

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 21:56

Actually what was said was a bit different:

Race engineer: Ok Lewis, traction metrics are under 2000 and temps are looking good.
Lewis: Please just let me drive man.

I disagree it was a classic. It was both stupid and rude. Something that Kimi would usually say and it'd be just as stupid and rude if Kimi does it.

His engineer is giving Lewis data and affirmation of the tyres. Those 4 round black bits that have caused Mercedes all sorts of problems this season and Lewis personally to go backwards in races and lose a few races. So the engineer giving data about the tyres is hugely important and his engineer was actually giving him good news and confirming to Lewis that he should just keep doing what he's doing as it was working.

I don't understand Lewis' reaction to that. I'll put it down to bad mood over the whole state of his personal life and probably a lot of nervousness about not being sure how the race will pan out and if tyres will hold. But I hope he reviews it and improves his communication with his race engineer. I must say his race engineer has been fantastic so far.

You will never understand it.
You know why? Simple, you will never drive a machine like this, ever, let alone in a competitive situation.