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1960 F.2 programme - a long shot


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#1 Barry Boor

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 20:32

As I say, I realise that this is an unlikely quest but if I'm going to learn anything, I'm going to learn it from TNF.

I'm in the process of constructing the F.2 cars for the 1960 season. There are dozens of Coopers of various types and although I'm pretty confident that most of the British ones were green, I am aware that there may have been one or two variations; e,g, George Wicken's car was maroon.

I am aware of several car colours - Marsh, Lewis, B.R.P, Atkins but there are so many others.

I know that race programmes quite often gave car colours so I'm wondering if anyone has a programme that featured an F.2 race from that year that lists colours?

Well, you've got to ask, haven't you?



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#2 Michael Oliver

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 21:50

As I say, I realise that this is an unlikely quest but if I'm going to learn anything, I'm going to learn it from TNF.

I'm in the process of constructing the F.2 cars for the 1960 season. There are dozens of Coopers of various types and although I'm pretty confident that most of the British ones were green, I am aware that there may have been one or two variations; e,g, George Wicken's car was maroon.

I am aware of several car colours - Marsh, Lewis, B.R.P, Atkins but there are so many others.

I know that race programmes quite often gave car colours so I'm wondering if anyone has a programme that featured an F.2 race from that year that lists colours?

Well, you've got to ask, haven't you?


If you get stuck Barry, I might be able to help with the programme from the 27th August 1960 at Brands Hatch (Kentish 100). It is on a list of programmes my Dad has and I know he is in the process of sorting them into files, one per year at the moment, so you might be in luck! Let me know if you want me to ask... He also has the programme for the Lavant Cup at Goodwood on April 18th 1960. Of course, that is no guarantee the programme will give the colours.

Edited by Michael Oliver, 07 July 2013 - 21:50.


#3 cooper997

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:49

I've just had a quick look and I have the 18/4/60 Goodwood programme. The FII Lavant Cup does have the colours listed.

Happy to scan if you provide an email, Barry.

Stephen

#4 taylov

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:43

Aintree 200 - 30th April 1960


Mass of green Lotus and Cooper entries but here are the "other colours".


Porsche Works 5 & 6 Silver

Porsche Walker 7 Blue

Porsche Gregory 8 White

Cooper Yeoman Credit 10 & 11 Green/Red

Cooper Centro-Sud 12 Red

Cooper Equipe Nationale Belge 14 & 15 Yellow

Cooper N.Z.I.G.P. 19 & 20 Silver

Cooper John Surtees 21 Blue

Cooper Reg Parnell 22 Blue

Cooper Jim Russell 24 Green/Silver

Cooper Org. Interautocourse 25 Blue

Cooper George Wicken 26 Red

Hume Cooper, T. Payne for I Raby 31 Red

Cooper B. Collumb 33 Blue

Tony





#5 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 00:45

If Michael turns up the August programme, then you have a couple from the beginning of the year, one from when the cars were introduced mid-year, or repainted, it might be good to see all three lists here...

#6 Stephen W

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:15

Aintree 200 - 30th April 1960

Porsche Works 5 & 6 Silver

Porsche Walker 7 Blue


The 'works' Porsches appear to have all been 'solid silver with white roundels & black numbers' having not yet adopted the nose colours to identify the different cars. The Walker car had the usual white banding through the white roundel on the nose.

Edited to amend reference to the works Porsche colours.

Edited by Stephen W, 09 July 2013 - 08:20.


#7 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:59

Hi , I would like any scans too, but I could ask Barry , of course.

#8 cooper997

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:54

Bjorn, just pm an email for the scan, haven't heard from Barry at this stage.

Stephen

#9 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 13:03

Sorry, Steven, somehow I missed your first post.

brucebook48@hotmail.com

Thank you very much.

#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 21:20

Why not post it up here for posterity?

I'm sure others would find interesting stuff in it...

#11 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:14

Thanks Steven :

kjerbjoern@hotmail.com

#12 Barry Boor

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:19

A staggeringly large F.2 entry at the 1960 Aintree 200.

 

200.jpg

 

With apologies to Mr. McKinney - I will change the white to silver soon, David.    ;)



#13 Stephen W

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:58

Follow these links for photos from Aintree of the Porsche F2s:

 

Graham Hill: http://shop.simonlew...-200-7207-p.asp

 

Jo Bonnier: http://shop.simonlew...e-200-611-p.asp

 

Stirling Moss: http://shop.simonlew...hoto-7206-p.asp



#14 Barry Boor

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 09:32

I realise that the Porsches did not have the coloured noses at some races in 1960 but I like the idea of them so I painted mine up right from when the cars were built.

 

There are a few errors in my set of cars. For a start, I think that by Aintree the Hume had been painted all red, I just haven't got around to that yet. The Schlesser car should have some white on it. In 1959 Ballisat's Cooper, was a Dick Gibson car with a yellow nose. I don't know if Ecurie Prideaux was anything to do with Gibson but I've kept the yellow nose anyway.

 

In 1959, Parnell's cars had some red on the nose but two pictures kindly sent to me by Mr. McKinney show a single white(?) stripe down the front at Snetterton then a similar livery to the factory F.1 cars at Aintree....  One wonders why.  Plus, I'm still running Brabham in a car with a red nose - simply to distinguish it from the other Coopers.

 

I am very happy with the Wicken car.  The programme may say RED but I saw George at Brands later in the year and the car was definitely maroon.



#15 David McKinney

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:42

Ecurie Prideaux was Dick Gibson, but AFAIK only one of his Coopers had a yellow nose

#16 Barry Boor

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:23

Lucky that it was the one that Ballisat drove then, isn't it?   :D



#17 jag38arw

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 14:55

A staggeringly large F.2 entry at the 1960 Aintree 200.

 

200.jpg

 

With apologies to Mr. McKinney - I will change the white to silver soon, David.    ;)

I attended the 60 Aintree and Oulton F2 meetings, and immediately noticed one serious omission from your excellent collection,that of probably the most attractive and eye-catching F2 car around at that time, the Tommy Atkins Cooper driven by Roy Salvadori, which retired during the 200, but a couple of weeks later won the Lancs & Ches F2 meeting at Oulton after Chris Bristow`s retirement, the car had silver spoked alloys that contrasted with what looked like opalescent green bodywork that really stood out from some of the bland colours around at that time,



#18 Barry Boor

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 15:37

Roy is there, #17.  The colour has been matched to several photos supplied to me by Ursula Dickinson (Tommy Atkins' daughter).

 

The opalescent green you mention sounds more like the colour on Tommy's Cooper Maserati sports car. 

 

By the way, the wheels were white.


Edited by Barry Boor, 14 November 2013 - 15:38.


#19 jag38arw

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 17:17

Roy is there, #17.  The colour has been matched to several photos supplied to me by Ursula Dickinson (Tommy Atkins' daughter).

 

The opalescent green you mention sounds more like the colour on Tommy's Cooper Maserati sports car. 

 

By the way, the wheels were white.

Wrong shade of green, the Atkins Cooper was much darker than your model, similar to No 28



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#20 Barry Boor

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 17:28

Looking at my picture I can see why you think that.  The picture was taken with a flash and the Atkins car looks MUCH lighter in the picture than it actually is. The Tony Marsh Cooper is bright mid green - nothing like the Atkins colour.

 

Even this photo doesn't convey the correct colour but it's closer than the picture above:

 

atkinscoop.jpg



#21 jag38arw

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 17:56

Looking at my picture I can see why you think that.  The picture was taken with a flash and the Atkins car looks MUCH lighter in the picture than it actually is. The Tony Marsh Cooper is bright mid green - nothing like the Atkins colour.

 

Even this photo doesn't convey the correct colour but it's closer than the picture above:

 

atkinscoop.jpg

That`s better, although from memory it was still a shade darker, at the Oulton Trophy meeting in april 60 , Salvadori was involved in a titanic battle with Bristow and McKee for 3rd place in that car, producing one of the best battles that I`ve ever seen at Oulton, ending only when Bristow`s engine suddenly went dramatically off-song, and McKee disappeared into the woods at the back of the circuit,...brilliant and unforgetable days.



#22 David McKinney

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 18:01

I suspect the problems are the same that always occur with discussions on colour...

I never saw that particular car but did see the Atkins T53 Bruce McLaren raced in NZ and Australia in 1962, and assuming it was the standard Atkins colour, agree with jag that it should be a shade darker than appears on my screen

#23 Barry Boor

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 18:09

Front row of the grid at that Oulton Park race:

 

Cooper%20Color04.jpg

 

I know this sort of thing shouldn't fascinate me, but it does.  The cars in that race were numbered 1 to 19, except for four cars that carried 115, 116, 117 and 118. (115, Piper, never appeared)  Late entries, I guess.....


Edited by Barry Boor, 14 November 2013 - 18:14.


#24 jag38arw

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 19:19


Front row of the grid at that Oulton Park race:

 

Cooper%20Color04.jpg

 

I know this sort of thing shouldn't fascinate me, but it does.  The cars in that race were numbered 1 to 19, except for four cars that carried 115, 116, 117 and 118. (115, Piper, never appeared)  Late entries, I guess.....

Thanks for posting that, I remember it like yesterday for it was another meeting I was at, It was the Lancs & Ches meeting at Oulton that followed the Aintree 200, and was particularly memorable for being Chris Bristow`s last UK race, A number of us track regulars had been watching Chris very closely since he burst on the scene in the latter half of 59, and during his brief and fleeting career demonstrated perhaps the greatest potential of any British driver then, and since, His last race at Oulton should have resulted in victory, leading from pole he secured a comfortable lead, only to retire with mechanical problems, gifting the win to Salvadori ahead of McKee and the Kiwi pair of Hulme and Lawton,
The picture which I have`nt seen before clearly shows what a distinctive and attractive car the Atkins Cooper was, I seem to remember that Roy may have raced that car at Monaco, and Mike McKee`s car, which we had a good look at after the race, for in those days it was possible to mingle with the cars and drivers in the paddock obtaining autographs, we were very lucky to have lived through those times.
 



#25 David McKinney

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 21:18

The Atkins colour in that photo is much closer to what I had in mind...