63 replies to this topic

[muramasa]

Not sure if thread for this exists or not, searched the forum but couldnt find one so here it is;

Japan's Super Formula (formerly called Formula Nippon) will introduce brand-new car from 2014, and the shakedown test was conducted last week (10-11 July) at Fuji Speedway.

SF14
Chassis manufacturer: Dallara
Engine: 2.0litre direct injection 4-cylinder(I4) turbo

Hybrid (KERS): "System-E" (introduced from 2015?)

length: 5268mm
wheelbase: 3165mm
width: 1900mm
height: 950mm
wight: 650kg (incl. driver)

gearbox: Ricardo - 6 speed , Zytek - paddle shift
brake: brembo
steering: KYB
tyre: Bridgestone













more pics
http://ms.toyota.co....llara-sf14.html
http://response.jp/a...899/578753.html
http://car.watch.imp...710_607249.html

video



exhaust sound;
Toyota
Honda


edited to add some more info

Edited by muramasa, 20 July 2013 - 08:36.

[midgrid]

My first thought was that it bears some similarity to the Panoz DP01.

Is that Kazuki at the wheel?

[Gene and Tonic]

It's quite a nice looking car. But then again, admitting that makes me kind of sad that I've become desensitised to disproportionate dimensions between the front and rear wings

[muramasa]

My first thought was that it bears some similarity to the Panoz DP01.

Maybe due to angle. Yea from the back the new car still looks like current car or kinda old Indy-ish coz of low bodywork
http://car.watch.imp.../607/249/14.jpg

Actually it's the current SF car that well resembles Panoz.
http://superformula....01/f02img02.jpg
http://sudacolumn.co.../04/09/fn09.jpg
Current car, which is in use since 2009, is made by Swift. With it, at that time, they shifted more towards Indy or USA open wheel series concept.

The new car is pretty much current GP2 car imo.
http://car.watch.imp.../607/249/02.jpg
http://car.watch.imp.../607/249/03.jpg

Is that Kazuki at the wheel?

Yeah, Toyota was tested by Nakajima jr, Honda by Izawa.

[TecnoRacing]

...another fairly conventional looking Dallara made junkbox... and now w/ a 4 cylinder

the Swift was the much neater car imo....

[eronrules]

so we had 'tilke-dromes' and now we have 'dallara-spec-uninspiring-soapbox'

what was wrong with swift??? this one looks like the front was taken from current GP2 series and rear is fattened a bit. and what's up with the diffuser??? it's the size of the channel tunnel

[ezequiel]

I prefer the old (current) Swift, it has more personality. Read somewhere that the Dallara is already faster than the Swift, which is major words.

[eronrules]

btw, that exhaust pipe is sticking like a 'sore thumb-err-exhaust'

hopefully they'll put it inside the bodywork, perhaps at the end of the coke bottle, or above the rear crush structure (where the rain-lights blink), or like early 90's F1 cars, in the middle of the diffuser.

[PerfectMan]

What is the deal with that engine cover? Sigh, why do designers insist on making very ugly cars just to kind of look like old F1 cars?

[eronrules]

What is the deal with that engine cover? Sigh, why do designers insist on making very ugly cars just to kind of look like old F1 cars?

it's a 4 pot turbo, with no airbox, it only has a roll-hoop, that's why it's kinda like that, looks like old indy cars. but, the sidpods are huge, i was expecting a nice undercut in there, guess 2014 cars will look like pretty same too, due to higher heat removal of TC engines. anyone has a guess as to how much power these 4 cyl TC will produce??? 500+???

[packapoo]

I was getting excited until I got to the manufacturers name.

[eronrules]

I was getting excited until I got to the manufacturers name.

Bridgestone???

[Afterburner]

Looks better than the DW12 and its awful wheel covers, at least.

[sesku]

I think it look pretty but why every other single seater series in the world have to follow F1 design for their front wing? Hate it.

[eronrules]

I think it look pretty but why every other single seater series in the world have to follow F1 design for their front wing? Hate it.

i think the issue is with how dallara designs the rest of the car, the front wing is fairly similar to that of GP2, and i'll bet dallara have made the argument that buying this design will save the organisers more money than a radical muliti-element curved FW. cost is a bigger issue with this spec series than performance.

btw, if they wanna produce a low draggy car, why the hell they've kept that Beam wing above the diffuser??? there is no need for that with that ski-ramp diffuser, just bolt on the RW on to the diffuser itself.

Edited by eronrules, 19 July 2013 - 07:39.

[PayasYouRace]

Interesting. It has a good look to it. I think I preferred the old car's swooping, slightly insane reflection of Japanese pop-culture looks. This looks a bit too GP2, though I do like the old Champcar influences.

I'm glad they got rid of the ugly lights round the roll-hoop though.

[eronrules]

Interesting. It has a good look to it. I think I preferred the old car's swooping, slightly insane reflection of Japanese pop-culture looks. This looks a bit too GP2, though I do like the old Champcar influences.

I'm glad they got rid of the ugly lights round the roll-hoop though.

wasn't that used during 'boost' or 'push to pass' thingy??? i thought it was helpful.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Why does Dallara get EVERY chassis deal? Is it because they're so big now they can undercut all other bids and make money through sheer volume?

[ch103]

Not sure if thread for this exists or not, searched the forum but couldnt find one so here it is;

Japan's Super Formula (formerly called Formula Nippon) will introduce brand-new car from 2014, and the shakedown test was conducted last week (10-11 July) at Fuji Speedway.

SF14
Chassis manufacturer: Dallara
Engine: 2.0litre direct injection 4-cylinder turbo

Thank you for sharing. I must admit, I have always been a fan of Super Formula. I think it is safe to say that this car is what the "Indy" cars will look like in a few years, lol.

Even though the car has a four cylinder engine, I like the idea of being able to buy a road car that has the "Super Formula" engine in it. (Much like F1 with the V6's coming up)

[Brandz07]

very boxy.

[rhukkas]

Nippon has gone from one of the most original a cool designs in recent years to that repugnant shower of ****

[NotAPineapple]

Even though the car has a four cylinder engine, I like the idea of being able to buy a road car that has the "Super Formula" engine in it. (Much like F1 with the V6's coming up)

I don't know anything about the Super Formula engine, but I'd hazard a guess that also has f-all to do with any current production car.

Similarly, you seriously in the belief that the V6s in F1 have anything to do with any production car on the road?

I just facepalmed myself so hard I swallowed my arm...

[dau]

Why does Dallara get EVERY chassis deal? Is it because they're so big now they can undercut all other bids and make money through sheer volume?

Swift got the last one and who else is there after Lola's demise? Panoz? Mygale?

[johnmhinds]

Why does every single seater platform need a humongous front wing these days.

I don't see any sign of the overtaking lights system which made the series somewhat unique, which is a shame.

Edited by johnmhinds, 19 July 2013 - 12:38.

[V8 Fireworks]

SF14
Chassis manufacturer: Dallara
Engine: 2.0litre direct injection 4-cylinder turbo

a. Is there not some kind of anti-monopoly rule?

b. Why not an affordable stroker kit 1990s F1 engine like this bad boy:

Sound:
(Judd)

Or even the IRL 3.5L V8s are better?

Effieicieny, efficiency...

[V8 Fireworks]

Swift got the last one and who else is there after Lola's demise? Panoz? Mygale?

How can they if they don't have a chance? Spec series everywhere.

LMP shows there are PLENTY of non-Dallara organisations capable of building race cars.

[johnmhinds]

How can they if they don't have a chance? Spec series everywhere.

LMP shows there are PLENTY of non-Dallara organisations capable of building race cars.

Not many are building cars in the amounts you need to supply a full 18 car race series though.

Edited by johnmhinds, 19 July 2013 - 12:57.

[froggy22]

A neat looking car, but not at all interesting looking. Can't remember the last Dallara car that had nice sidepods, almost as if it was part of their design ethic to put the wrong sidepods on all their cars. I was never a big fan of the Swift car and thought it got old and quite dated quite quick. But at least it had some character and was interesting to look at.

[dau]

How can they if they don't have a chance? Spec series everywhere.

LMP shows there are PLENTY of non-Dallara organisations capable of building race cars.

Aren't most private LMPs actually more or less modifications of pretty old Lola and Courage designs?

[V8 Fireworks]

Swift got the last one and who else is there after Lola's demise? Panoz? Mygale?

How can they if they don't have a chance? Spec series everywhere.

LMP shows there are PLENTY of non-Dallara organisations capable of building race cars.

[eronrules]

a. Is there not some kind of anti-monopoly rule?

b. Why not an affordable stroker kit 1990s F1 engine like this bad boy:

Sound:
(Judd)

Or even the IRL 3.5L V8s are better?

Effieicieny, efficiency...

i think it's cause they'll use souped up production based engines, not specialized engines made specifically for the series, though only IMO, muramasa san may know more.

[ch103]

I don't know anything about the Super Formula engine, but I'd hazard a guess that also has f-all to do with any current production car.

Similarly, you seriously in the belief that the V6s in F1 have anything to do with any production car on the road?

I just facepalmed myself so hard I swallowed my arm...

No need to face palm. lol.

Time will prove me to be correct. You will see Mercedes, Renault (Nissan) and Honda cars that are going to be marketed with "the F1 Engine". This is in line with making the racing series more relevant to road cars. Of course there will not be a road car that has the exact F1 engine, but they will be allowed to market the engines as such. The car companies will be able to have another marketing tool in their bag now.

Keep in mind, there are many road cars already have V6 Turbocharged engines.

[PayasYouRace]

wasn't that used during 'boost' or 'push to pass' thingy??? i thought it was helpful.

I think so, and it's not a bad idea, especially for the trackside spectator, but they were still pretty ugly. I'm sure they could have incorporated a more subtle lighting strip or something.

[NotAPineapple]

Time will prove me to be correct. You will see Mercedes, Renault (Nissan) and Honda cars that are going to be marketed with "the F1 Engine". This is in line with making the racing series more relevant to road cars. Of course there will not be a road car that has the exact F1 engine, but they will be allowed to market the engines as such. The car companies will be able to have another marketing tool in their bag now.

This I believe 100%. As stupid as it is, I know this will happen. Anyone who gets excited about buying a V6 because of the new F1 engines is an absolute idiot and deserve to have their money taken from them. Its 100% marketing with absolutely no substance to it. On a technical level, there is nothing about the V6 engines which are more road relevant than the previous V8 or V10 and there is absolutely no way that road car development will benefit from this change beyond "marketing fluff".

Add to that the fact that the costs of implementing this change are likely to finish off a few teams financially, and it just seems like an absolutely ridiculous image exercise.

Keep in mind, there are many road cars already have V6 Turbocharged engines.

So what, there are a lot of V8s too...

[saudoso]

Why do they have to follow the stupid trends of Formula 1 rule making?

[muramasa]

what was wrong with swift??? this one looks like the front was taken from current GP2 series and rear is fattened a bit. and what's up with the diffuser??? it's the size of the channel tunnel

nothing wrong about Swift. current car is 5 year old now, so just that it's about time they changed to new car. Usually they introduce new car every 3 years (current car was introduced in 2009, the one before was in 2006), so originally FN09 was meant to be replaced at the end of 2011, but due to reasons like economic situation and overall motorsports circumstance in Japan, it's got 2 year extension.

I prefer the old (current) Swift, it has more personality. Read somewhere that the Dallara is already faster than the Swift, which is major words.

At shakedown at Fuji, it was 5sec or so off the best lap by current car on the 1st day. But on 2nd day, its lap time as well as top speed was already almost as fast as the current Super Formula car, so it's a positive start.
New car is well lighter (-20kg) than its predecessor and designed to go few sec faster over 1 lap. According to Izawa who tested the new car for Honda, current Swift is faster than new Dallara on high speed corners because Swift car has got more downforce, but SF14 is quicker and more agile in slower corners.

btw, that exhaust pipe is sticking like a 'sore thumb-err-exhaust'

hopefully they'll put it inside the bodywork, perhaps at the end of the coke bottle, or above the rear crush structure (where the rain-lights blink), or like early 90's F1 cars, in the middle of the diffuser.

yea exhaust looks abit dumb. The engine is Inline4, so has single exhaust, hence no exhaust pipe on left side. I imagine the aero is asymmetry to quite a degree. Dont know why the compromise, or if it's the final config. They plan to put hybrid system some time in the future, so maybe hot air outlet for turbo/hybrid cooling on the left?

Edited by muramasa, 23 July 2013 - 04:53.

[HaydenFan]

Looks like what they wanted from the GP2 car and IndyCar. You have the raised nose and full width wing of the GP2 car, and what we might see in the body kits for IndyCar in the airbox/engine cover design.

I'm happy to see the series go for the turbo 4 cylinder though. While a V8 or V10 or V12 sound great, with F1, IndyCar, and LMP racing going towards the turbo 6 cylinder, this helps from a automaker aspect in that Japanese makers are renown for making terrific 4 cylinder engines for their street cars.

And I've said it in the IndyCar threads, I wanna buy stock in Dallara. They are solely supplying IndyCar/GP2/GP3/FR3.5/Super Formula/Indy Lights (for now)/F3 and I am probably missing a series or two. That's over 100 cars running needing spares and replacements at tens of thousands of dollars for the tiniest of winglets.

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

this helps from a automaker aspect in that Japanese makers are renown for making terrific 4 cylinder engines for their street cars.

When I can buy a car that has the same engine block in it as an F1 engine... THEN I'll buy the "road car relevance" bs.

They *could* do this, and that would tremendously exciting and interesting. Oh well.

2 liter TC engines. That video didn't exactly thrill me with sound. BRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (wind noise). I really, REALLY hope I'm REALLY, REALLY wrong that the even smaller V6's next year sound A LOT more impressive than these 2.0 tc cars....

The 21st century wasn't supposed to suck this bad.

[boyRacer]

Interesting. It has a good look to it. I think I preferred the old car's swooping, slightly insane reflection of Japanese pop-culture looks. This looks a bit too GP2, though I do like the old Champcar influences.

I'm glad they got rid of the ugly lights round the roll-hoop though.

I agree the current car looks and sounds better IMO... but yes the lights were ugly.

Edited by boyRacer, 20 July 2013 - 02:39.

[mtknot]

looks like they grabbed the HRT chassis and added a huge rear diffuser to it... I swear those sidepods are way too huge for the engine they're putting into it though.

Why are they getting rid of the swifts?

[Afterburner]

I agree the current car looks and sounds better IMO... but yes the lights were ugly.

Wait, this is the car they're replacing?

I agree with the poster above--where is open-wheel motorsport headed this century?

[eronrules]

looks like they grabbed the HRT chassis and added a huge rear diffuser to it... I swear those sidepods are way too huge for the engine they're putting into it though.

Why are they getting rid of the swifts?

that's because the first HRT car was made by Dallara and the subsequent ones followed the first one as a base.

[eronrules]

a bit more info from racecar engineering website ...

http://www.racecar-e...ncept-revealed/

The turbocharged four cylinder direct injection units will produce around 550bhp and have a 50bhp boost function, which it is thought will come from a hybrid system. Up to 700Nm of torque will also be on offer. The powertrains will be shared with the new 2014 GT500 cars and also possibly DTM.

but this is the info i'm concerned about ...

it will also feature DRS.

now a 50 HP boost, Possible KERS ... and then DRS??? WTF??? that's a bit of an overkill IMO. can anyone verify this??? Wikipedia also says it'll have DRS.


also, there seems to be a homologization of different spec serieses into one single spec, specially interms of engine. (which is a bit confusing)

The car weighs 650kg and will be powered by two litre turbo engines from Honda, Toyota and possibly Nissan, similar to the 2014 DTM/GT500/NASCAR United Sportscar Racing specification to be used in both the pan-European Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters and North American NASCAR United Sportscar Racing DTM series and in Super GT by the GT500 specification in Super GT (any DTM or Super GT500 manufacturer can participate). It will also has the DRS feature as in Formula 1. 30% of the car is manufactured in Japan.[2]

so does that mean NASCAR and DTM will have same engine??? AFAIK NASCAR still uses pushrod actuated engines while DTM uses quad cam. also does this mean BMW/AUDI/Merc in NASCAR and vice-versa???

Edited by eronrules, 20 July 2013 - 05:39.

[muramasa]

anyone has a guess as to how much power these 4 cyl TC will produce??? 500+???

yes official figure for the new I4 turbo is 550bhp. Current engine is 3.4litre V8 and produces 600bhp+.
It will also have hybrid system called "System-E" that is effectively KERS, so as a whole power unit, it should exceed 600bhp as well. Not sure if it's p2p or integrated system. At the moment "System-E" is expected to be introduced in 2015 or later tho.

i think it's cause they'll use souped up production based engines, not specialized engines made specifically for the series, though only IMO, muramasa san may know more.

true about "not specialized engine". Super Formula and SuperGT are using same engine now, and they will continue to do so from 2014 onwards with the introduction of new car/engine/regs too. Whole point of the common engine of course is cost cutting and to lure more manufacturers.

I think so, and it's not a bad idea, especially for the trackside spectator, but they were still pretty ugly. I'm sure they could have incorporated a more subtle lighting strip or something.

the hoop lights serves its purpose perfectly, but agree it looks funny. Those lights show remaining p2p and flash fast when it's used, that's why it cannot be made subtle nor strip.
I'm not sure new car will have push-to-pass boost (the one that temporarily unlocks engine's rev-limit). If KERS system (that they plan to put in the future but not from next year) is p2p, that should mean engine p2p boost is gone.

[Victor_RO]

so does that mean NASCAR and DTM will have same engine??? AFAIK NASCAR still uses pushrod actuated engines while DTM uses quad cam. also does this mean BMW/AUDI/Merc in NASCAR and vice-versa???

No, there will (eventually) be a DTM-style series running in the USA as a support series to the sportscar racing series owned by Nascar and resulted from the merger of Grand-Am and the ALMS.

[eronrules]

No, there will (eventually) be a DTM-style series running in the USA as a support series to the sportscar racing series owned by Nascar and resulted from the merger of Grand-Am and the ALMS.

cars going right in a NASCAR event??? it's the end of the world as we know it

[muramasa]

a bit more info from racecar engineering website ...

http://www.racecar-e...ncept-revealed/

That's bit old and seems not everything in there is accurate.
So far I havent read anything about 50bhp boost function and DRS for SF14. True about 550bhp (target figure for the new engine) and the car made to 2010 F1 safety standard tho. Also true that the engine being shared b/w Super Formula and Super GT, but they've already been doing that for several years now. Same engine, that's for sure, but it's not like you can remove engine from SF car and bolt it on to GT and drive. SuperGT car and SF car are completely different, one weighs over 1100kg while the other weighs less than 700kg.　While sharing basic design, engines are heavily tuned and customized according to car.

Not sure about what's going on with those touring car series right now, but SuperGT and DTM are set to adopt same regs regarding car spec in 2014, in a way that Super GT adopt much of DTM rule. Engines will still be different b/w the 2 series for a while, but they're planning to have same engines by 2016, in a way that DTM adopting SuperGT/SuperFormula's new 2.0 I4 turbo that will come next year. Also just recently Super GT, DTM and Grand-Am agreed to adopt universal technical regs from 2017.
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/108753
http://www.dtm.com/e...ns-in-2017.html

----

EDIT: correction, yes the new I4 turbo is planned to have 50bhp p2p boost, by uncapping fuel restriction temporarily.

Edited by muramasa, 31 July 2013 - 21:45.

[maverick69]

I wonder how many parts are inter-changeable with the GP2 car?

[pingu666]

Why does Dallara get EVERY chassis deal? Is it because they're so big now they can undercut all other bids and make money through sheer volume?

quite possibly, and i think they do loss leading, so the car is cheap, but spares are £goraceorhavekidneys.
brian brainfart did let them set prices and have exclusive contract for spares for indycar which must be a nice cash cow.

[DrProzac]

650 kg with the driver, or without?