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Horrible 2014 sound [merged]


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#1901 Seanspeed

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:21

If the people surrounding the track stop complaining about the noise, you know there's something wrong.

Its like a house party that doesn't get the cops called at least once. It means you're not partying hard enough.

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#1902 Tourgott

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:24

Plus, how do you know it would have been back with the V8? 

 

Because until the first tests everybody calmed us that the V6 are not quieter than the V8.   ;)



#1903 Massa_f1

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:46

To me the engines sound quieter here than they did in Sepang. Although Brundle reckons they are louder. Maybe it's cause I watched Indycar last weekend, and then a bit of GP2. I have accepted the change, but I will never like them. When a pimped up road car goes by the road next to your house and its louder then when your watching an F1 race I know it's too quiet.



#1904 ExFlagMan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:53

To me the engines sound quieter here than they did in Sepang.

Possibly because there are less grandstands than at Sepang so the sound gets dissipated more.

#1905 Jamiednm

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:03

The sound is very underwhelming but I am getting used to it. My concern sound-wise is the relatively low-revving engines. They just don't sound racy. It would instantly improve if the teams ran their engines up to the allowed 15k RPM. The sound would still be underwhelming, but they'd at least sound like they are straining to go fast. That was very apparent when watching F1 in previous years - that straining sound made it all seem furious. That's what I'm missing.

#1906 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 11:48

If the people surrounding the track stop complaining about the noise, you know there's something wrong.

Its like a house party that doesn't get the cops called at least once. It means you're not partying hard enough.

 

True in a way, but as with house parties, in the long run the other tenants win.

And to be fair, in this case it was not that people moved next to an active racetrack and then complained.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 05 April 2014 - 11:51.


#1907 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 11:50

Because until the first tests everybody calmed us that the V6 are not quieter than the V8.   ;)

 

And it was obvious that it would not be true. I'm not even sure I read "not quieter", I seem to remember only "sound will be fine" (which does not really make a statement about dB)



#1908 Tourgott

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:09

And it was obvious that it would not be true. I'm not even sure I read "not quieter", I seem to remember only "sound will be fine" (which does not really make a statement about dB)

 

I knew it will sound different but I didn't know that it will be quieter. Especially the engineers from Mercedes emphasized that "it will be still very loud".

 

Btw. My main problem is not the loudness. I basically really hate the noise itself.



#1909 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:22

I knew it will sound different but I didn't know that it will be quieter. Especially the engineers from Mercedes emphasized that "it will be still very loud".

 

Btw. My main problem is not the loudness. I basically really hate the noise itself.

 

100 or 110 dB IS "still very loud": http://www.chem.purd...in/dblevels.htm

Just not as loud as before.

 

If you thought that taking energy out of the emissions and feeding it back into the engine instead of wasting it as noise, and stuffing a turbo into the exhaust path would make no difference, well, I cannot do anything about that :)

 

Edit: Personally I like the complexity of the new sound a lot as I wrote before. It could do with a few dB more and FOM needs to get its act together (but they didn't with the NA engines either, it was just not as obvious)


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 05 April 2014 - 12:23.


#1910 Tourgott

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:31

100 or 110 dB IS "still very loud": http://www.chem.purd...in/dblevels.htm

Just not as loud as before.

 

As somebody already pointed out it depends on the measurement. RTL and AMuS stated it is 143 vs 97 dB. And this is a huge difference so it is not "still very loud" compared to before.

 

Yes I have no clue about those technical things so I had no idea about energy instead of noise and so on. But do you know what? I'm with 99% of the F1 fans and we all are not interested in those things. Most people don't care about this green shit (in sports). Nevertheless the engine manufactures think we do.


Edited by Tourgott, 05 April 2014 - 12:33.


#1911 Lazy

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:38

If the people surrounding the track stop complaining about the noise, you know there's something wrong.

Its like a house party that doesn't get the cops called at least once. It means you're not partying hard enough.

Yeah, but imagine going to a House party and they're playing the same music they did 10 years ago.



#1912 Lazy

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:41

 Nevertheless the engine manufactures think we do.

 

The manufacturers think the people who buy their cars do, and they're right.



#1913 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:50

As somebody already pointed out it depends on the measurement. RTL and AMuS stated it is 143 vs 97 dB. And this is a huge difference so it is not "still very loud" compared to before.

 

It is still very loud on an absolute scale, after all 110 dB (one of the numbers quoted) is at the pain threshold according to the chart I posted, and while 97 is noticeably quieter than 100 dB due to the db scale maths, if you look in the chart for the 100 dB examples, it is still very loud, in comparison to that. Yes, it is not very loud compared to 143 dB, but how wise are 143 dB if 150 dB gives you eardrum rupture? (Edit: and keeping in mind that all this noise is wasted energy that engineers would have harvested for a long time if REGULATIONS had not forced NA engines. After all they want to win first, not entertain)

 

 

Yes I have no clue about those technical things so I had no idea about energy instead of noise and so on. But do you know what? I'm with 99% of the F1 fans and we all are not interested in those things. Most people don't care about this green shit (in sports). Nevertheless the engine manufactures think we do.

 

 

Forgive my bluntness, but do you know what: I don't care much about the needs of F1 "fans" like that.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 05 April 2014 - 12:51.


#1914 SenorSjon

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:55

100 or 110 dB is easily gotten at home with a bit of tuning on your car or motorbike. And for less cash than a F1 ticket. When F1 is more silent than home, why go to a race when the otherworldly aspect is gone?

#1915 Tourgott

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:58

 

The manufacturers think the people who buy their cars do, and they're right.

 

Yeah, that's why Volkswagen, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Toyota, Ford, ... are part of F1.  :rolleyes:

 

Forgive my bluntness, but do you know what: I don't care much about the needs of F1 "fans" like that.

 

Pretty arrogant. Especially because F1 would not exist if there are only such complacent fans like you.  :rolleyes:



#1916 Lazy

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 13:01

 

Yeah, that's why Volkswagen, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Toyota, Ford, ... are part of F1.  :rolleyes:

 

 

Porsche are rumoured as are Ford, as long as the flat earthers don't sabotage the formula I'm sure we'll see more soon.



#1917 Tourgott

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 13:04

Porsche are rumoured as are Ford, as long as the flat earthers don't sabotage the formula I'm sure we'll see more soon.

 

Could you please stop to spread this ridiculous rumor and concentrate on the facts? We already had this discussion. It will never happen at least in the next 15 years.


Edited by Tourgott, 05 April 2014 - 13:06.


#1918 Lazy

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 13:13

Could you please stop to spread this ridiculous rumor and concentrate on the facts? We already had this discussion. It will never happen at least in the next 15 years.

lol



#1919 Tombstone

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 13:19

Most of the whinging about the noise comes from those too young to recall the '77 to '88 turbo era.



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#1920 yasushi888

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 13:22

Yeah, but imagine going to a House party and they're playing the same music they did 10 years ago.

 

Sounds good to me, you can go back further if you like!!!



#1921 ExFlagMan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 13:30

Given that 100db is claimed capable of 'serious damage possible in 8 hr exposure' then maybe quieter engines are a good idea. OK so F1 race is < 2hr but a full day at a GP is getting close.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 05 April 2014 - 13:31.


#1922 SpartanChas

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 13:30

Yeah, that's why Volkswagen, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Toyota, Ford, ... are part of F1. :rolleyes:



Pretty arrogant. Especially because F1 would not exist if there are only such complacent fans like you. :rolleyes:

Last I hear, Porsche, Audi and Toyota are building green hybrid racing engines for Le Mans.

Porsche would have come to F1 if they didn't get into WEC.

Edited by SpartanChas, 05 April 2014 - 13:40.


#1923 30ft penguin

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 14:50

The sound is very underwhelming but I am getting used to it. My concern sound-wise is the relatively low-revving engines. They just don't sound racy. It would instantly improve if the teams ran their engines up to the allowed 15k RPM. The sound would still be underwhelming, but they'd at least sound like they are straining to go fast. That was very apparent when watching F1 in previous years - that straining sound made it all seem furious. That's what I'm missing.

 

Yes, the low revs are my main issue with the sound. To me, the cars all sound as if they are on a cooldown lap, even when they are driven at full speed during qualifying. It just "sounds slow".



#1924 pdac

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 15:03

As somebody already pointed out it depends on the measurement. RTL and AMuS stated it is 143 vs 97 dB. And this is a huge difference so it is not "still very loud" compared to before.

 

Yes I have no clue about those technical things so I had no idea about energy instead of noise and so on. But do you know what? I'm with 99% of the F1 fans and we all are not interested in those things. Most people don't care about this green shit (in sports). Nevertheless the engine manufactures think we do.

 

That's an interesting claim (unless, of course, you only consider those who are outraged by new power units as "F1 fans").



#1925 Clatter

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 15:23

Porsche are rumoured as are Ford, as long as the flat earthers don't sabotage the formula I'm sure we'll see more soon.

There have been rumours about Porsche for years, they always deny any interest. 

 

Its going to be hard enough for Honda joining the party late, it will be even harder for another manufacturer to join with the allowable tweaks becoming tighter each season. 



#1926 SpartanChas

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 16:02

Porsche won't be doing F1 and WEC at the same time anyway.

#1927 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 17:56

Porsche won't be doing F1 and WEC at the same time anyway.

 

Porsche said quite recently that they would have joined F1 if company rules had prevented them from competing against Audi, but their heart and history is in sports cars.



#1928 SpartanChas

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 18:28

It would be strange to see Porsche in F1.

Watching the qualifying rerun. They sound fine, as I've always said. If you want to hear a bad engine, watch first gen GP3. Can't wait to hear them for real, as well as all the other things that come with being at a GP.

Edited by SpartanChas, 05 April 2014 - 18:30.


#1929 nonobaddog

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 19:24

As an admitted old fart, I have seen a lot of changes in F1 over the years.  Certainly not all to my liking but they were all tolerable, until this season.  So I won't be going to any Gran Prix this year.  Maybe the sounds were a bigger part of the allure than I realized.  I just don't have enough desire to watch a bunch of those castrated cars fight for third place.  It seems like the excitement has been sucked right out of F1 this year.  I truly hope it comes back.  And I really hope it is good enough this year to attract the crowds it needs.



#1930 RuleyRamundo

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 19:42

No fans at the track so no fans moaned this weekend, result.

 

FIA it's getting better well done.



#1931 midgrid

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 19:43

It would be strange to see Porsche in F1.

7H99mRN.jpg



#1932 917k

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 19:49

7H99mRN.jpg

 

 

And TAG-Porsche of course - two World Championships, 84 and 85.



#1933 917k

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 19:51

No fans at the track so no fans moaned this weekend, result.

 

FIA it's getting better well done.

 

It will be all decided on TV numbers, as always. If they drop too much, you will see action of some sort.



#1934 ExFlagMan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 20:02

Bernie wants the numbers to drop - it reduces the value of the sport so CVC are more inclined to sell. He might be 83 but he ain't daft

Edited by ExFlagMan, 05 April 2014 - 20:02.


#1935 Lemans

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 20:12

Most of the whinging about the noise comes from those too young to recall the '77 to '88 turbo era.

 

I remember those engines well. They sound far better then the current engines. Much more anger and fury.



#1936 saudoso

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 20:34

Most of the whinging about the noise comes from those too young to recall the '77 to '88 turbo era.

I guess you are too, because it sounded nothing like these wet farts, if that's what you are implying.

 

EDIT: BTW, my first live GP was in 1978.


Edited by saudoso, 05 April 2014 - 20:35.


#1937 uffen

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 21:34

I remember those engines well. They sound far better then the current engines. Much more anger and fury.

Too right. The 80s turbos sounded like they were powerful, ready to burst. These new ones don't seem to sound like they are powerful at all.



#1938 scheivlak

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 21:44

Too right. The 80s turbos sounded like they were powerful, ready to burst. These new ones don't seem to sound like they are powerful at all.

And yet they have more power in race conditions. 

 

Maybe sound is just a pretty good indicator of waste, not of efficiency.



#1939 morrino

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 23:28

2013 pole time 1:32.330

2014 pole time 1:33.186

just 0.8 sec slow with less df, 50kg extra, smaller engines and harder tyres.

 

These cars will humilliate your loved -horrible sounding- V8s.


Edited by morrino, 05 April 2014 - 23:29.


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#1940 coppilcus

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 23:38

At least now we can her the tires screaming out of every pit stop...

#1941 uffen

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 23:46

And yet they have more power in race conditions. 

 

Maybe sound is just a pretty good indicator of waste, not of efficiency.

Sound is one indicator of waste, never was anything else. My understanding is that they have less power over a race lap. But that is neither here nor there. The sound isn't as formidible - your explanation of why it isn't as robust doesn't alter that.



#1942 saudoso

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 00:18

And yet they have more power in race conditions. 

 

Maybe sound is just a pretty good indicator of waste, not of efficiency.

Again, a lot of people, ticket buying people, TV watching people, give a damn about efficience and do care about sound.

 

Like FCW said, racing car engine's sound is just as much wasted energy as laughter is.


Edited by saudoso, 06 April 2014 - 00:19.


#1943 PokePoke

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:17

If even NASCAR CEO talk about killing current 850 HP engines, then you must know that the days of big, non-hybrid, non-turbo/non-supercharched V8/V10/V12 engines are numbered, and with them their sound. :stoned:

 

F1 without screaming NA high revs engines - no big deal.

NASCAR without uberpowerfull V8 big block - :confused:  c'mon

 

PS: Dorna also talk about  less fuel for SBk and rev limiter.


Edited by PokePoke, 06 April 2014 - 01:19.


#1944 stkildaresident

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:32

Most of the whinging about the noise comes from those too young to recall the '77 to '88 turbo era.

:rolleyes:

 

how the fork would you know? you did research on this? More baseless generalising.



#1945 eronrules

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:55

a lot of empty noise in this thread ... and it's diminishing as well. 



#1946 nonobaddog

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:34

a lot of empty noise in this thread ... and it's diminishing as well. 

 

 

Hey, just like F1 - empty noise and diminishing.  Good call.



#1947 Lemans

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:47

And yet they have more power in race conditions. 

 

Maybe sound is just a pretty good indicator of waste, not of efficiency.

 

Nobody is arguing that. I'm not sure what your point is.

 

Oh, and by the way, the turbo engines of the mid-80's did in fact have more power in race conditions then the current engines. Sorry, but what you're saying is just bullshit.


Edited by Lemans, 06 April 2014 - 03:04.


#1948 ExFlagMan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:09

Nobody is arguing that. I'm not sure what your point is.
 
Oh, and by the way, the turbo engines of the mid-80's did in fact have more power in race conditions then the current engines. Sorry, but what you're saying is just bullshit.

Possibly true, but they also had very minimal reliability, frequently ran out of fuel before the end of the race so could not use all that power, and, from the Brands Hatch race clip I found on youtube, didn't sound that much different from the current ones. And if a 26 car grid off the line at Brands Hatch sounds muted....

#1949 scheivlak

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:26

 

 

Oh, and by the way, the turbo engines of the mid-80's did in fact have more power in race conditions then the current engines. Sorry, but what you're saying is just bullshit.

Turbo engines in the eighties had somewhere around 700-750 hp max in race conditions. The current PU's have already more than that on full power.


Edited by scheivlak, 06 April 2014 - 07:29.


#1950 Jon83

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:02

The GP2 race yesterday sounded decent at least  :well: