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Horrible 2014 sound [merged]


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#2001 Jon83

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:48

Seriously, you watched that race and you still don't want to go see them?

 

To be fair, the other two races have been dire.



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#2002 Lazy

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:54

Not dire just average, there has never been an era in F1 when there were epic races every weekend.



#2003 Massa_f1

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:16

To be fair, the other two races have been dire.

 

Exactly! I am not letting one good race all of a sudden change my mind on this new era. I will judge at the half way point in the season. The F1 media is going to town on just how good this race was. All this shows to me is how concerned they were after the first two races. All this egg on face of all the doubters comments have been said far to early. China could easily be another Sepang bore. In fact i expect it to be.



#2004 Jon83

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:22

Exactly! I am not letting one good race all of a sudden change my mind on this new era. I will judge at the half way point in the season. The F1 media is going to town on just how good this race was. All this shows to me is how concerned they were after the first two races. All this egg on face of all the doubters comments have been said far to early. China could easily be another Sepang bore. In fact i expect it to be.

 

The race was good but the safety car had a massive impact on it. The first stint battle between HAM and ROS was the best part of the race IMO and there was some decent stuff between Williams and Force India but on the whole I felt tyres were too influential and again, this race wasn't dissimilar to a lot of what we saw last season.

 

(sorry off topic a little)



#2005 SpartanChas

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:29

I wanted to visit a track this year, but after watching this:

https://www.youtube....h?v=SyMvD4WxOfk

I refuse to pay money for it. If this is the sound level I'm going to be experiencing, I might as well just let my friends going in circles around me with a vacuum cleaner.

Seriously, I want to hear the cars roaring all over the track. I want not to be able to hear my own voice while them passing by. FIA DO SOMETHING FOR FUC*S SAKE! :mad:

Well then I don't care what you think, if you think noise is more important than what's happening on track go and watch something else.

The point of Bahrain is that it proved that this formula CAN produce an exciting race, not that it will ALWAYS produce exciting races. It's just unrealistic to expect that.

Edited by SpartanChas, 07 April 2014 - 09:40.


#2006 masa90

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:40

Well atleast sofar to me the sound hasnt been an issue.

Yes, i liked v10s and v8 better but i think the whole f1 2014 concept is so flawed in many ways that sounds doesnt even get me annoyed.

 

I just get depressed thinking about the upcoming races and the way competition is flawed.



#2007 Jamiednm

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:01

The race was so good yesterday that I didn't care about the sound. I actually like the sound at low speed and under breaking - it's just at high speed that its's ropey in my opinion.

 

We're planning on going to the Spanish GP and the sound situation has no influence at all on that decision.



#2008 Jamiednm

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:02

I wanted to visit a track this year, but after watching this:

 

 

I refuse to pay money for it. If this is the sound level I'm going to be experiencing, I might as well just let my friends going in circles around me with a vacuum cleaner.

 

Seriously, I want to hear the cars roaring all over the track. I want not to be able to hear my own voice while them passing by. FIA DO SOMETHING FOR FUC*S SAKE!  :mad:

 

That video is spectacular. You couldn't have chosen a worse video to back up your point.



#2009 stanga

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:05

That video is spectacular. You couldn't have chosen a worse video to back up your point.

 

My thoughts exactly. That is what I'd pay my money for.



#2010 BullHead

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:09

I imagine it's hard to find a video of people booing at the cars and moaning they can't hear them...

#2011 yasushi888

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:56

Seriously, you watched that race and you still don't want to go see them?

 

The race was great, but I think it could be even better if the sound was good. Also what about Friday and Saturday, what about when there isn't any racing? That's when the sound plays a bigger part in the spectacle.

I think the problem is when watching live at the circuit, the sound on TV although I think it was better before doesn't bother me too much.

I would rather pay money to watch another series with better looking cars and better sound. Every series has good races and bad races.



#2012 stkildaresident

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:12

The race was great, but I think it could be even better if the sound was good. Also what about Friday and Saturday, what about when there isn't any racing? That's when the sound plays a bigger part in the spectacle.

I think the problem is when watching live at the circuit, the sound on TV although I think it was better before doesn't bother me too much.

I would rather pay money to watch another series with better looking cars and better sound. Every series has good races and bad races.

Good point :up: , people who come to the circuit, usually pay to attend the whole 4 days, not just race day. And the price is definitely not right as this year the cars are not only FUGLY :mad: , and the sound :mad:  (fork me dead) total antiphysis to everything we have come to associate with F1.



#2013 byrkus

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:15

Is it just me, or did the engines actually sound louder this whole weekend...? Specially in the onboard shots?



#2014 Lotus53B

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:22

Is it just me, or did the engines actually sound louder this whole weekend...? Specially in the onboard shots?

On the BBC coverage, the engine sound was noticeably louder, and it sounded good.



#2015 ExFlagMan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:41

FOM footage muted the previous cars as well. The onslaught about the sound would be even worse.  ;)

If they where pushing out 143 db as has been claimed then it was probably just as well!

#2016 Radion

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:08

That video is spectacular. You couldn't have chosen a worse video to back up your point.

No, my point was about the noise, not the action. Hence the video's the best I could find to back my point. 

 

Plus, noise is part of formula one. I won't buy tickets in advance, just to maybe (who guarantees there'll be fights like this all the time?) have a good race without decent noise. period.


Edited by Radion, 07 April 2014 - 12:10.


#2017 RuDee

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 15:35

What i really miss is not just the scary sound that came out from the old engines, but also the sound that stays present in the farthest distance. Combining the 20+ car sounds produces the monstrous sound that we are missing!

 



#2018 Nonesuch

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 16:11

That video is spectacular. You couldn't have chosen a worse video to back up your point.

 

I don't know about spectacular; you can see drivers overshooting a corner in a hopeless attempt to overtake in every Formula Ford race at your local track. :p But I actually do like the sound in that video better than on some of the TV images. It reminds me of the great Peugeot and Audi Le Mans cars, though whether or not that's what F1 should aspire to I couldn't say.



#2019 chipmcdonald

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 16:37

It's not just the impressiveness that is gone, it's the audible feedback of what the driver is doing, combined with coasting into turns.   You can hear when ERS is switching on/off sometimes - the pitch of the engine (if you can hear it...) suddenly drops - but then, you don't know exactly why.  When it's working, you don't know how much, and in what way.   The engine sound is non-linear to the driver's foot.



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#2020 chipmcdonald

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 16:42

What i really miss is not just the scary sound that came out from the old engines, but also the sound that stays present in the farthest distance. Combining the 20+ car sounds produces the monstrous sound that we are

 

 

Yes!  800hp shrieking in the distance, hearing the cars go up and down through the gears, was part of the live experience.  The effect of that volume *at* a distance conveys it's power.  The nature of the engineering - trying to eke out every last rpm - was *conveyed in the sound*.  You *knew* you were hearing something that was both very precise, but also at the limit.

 

.. and from a great distance.

 

I'm sure someone will invent "silent fireworks" and some people will think "isn't that great!?".



#2021 Tourgott

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 16:53

That video is spectacular. You couldn't have chosen a worse video to back up your point.

 

That video is awful. Again I'm really shocked how quiet these engines are.  :eek:



#2022 Tourgott

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 17:00

Btw. TV ratings in Germany dropped again by about 1 million.

http://www.dwdl.de/s...echelt_bei_rtl/



#2023 nonobaddog

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 17:17

Boy, the announcers and everybody are sure falling all over themselves to say what a wonderful race that was.  It certainly had some very good parts to it.  But looking at the big picture - there was a 10 lap shoot-out green at the end and Mercedes gapped the field by 23 seconds, even while fighting.  I'd say the 'fight' for the constructor's championship is over with 16 races left.  That can't be good for F1.  And there are only 2 drivers with the potential to win the driver's championship.  At least that might be interesting.
I really have to applaud Mercedes and the way they handled the team orders issue.  Some will say it was stupid but that was real racing spirit and I loved it.  If they keep that up there is a chance for a fight for the driver's championship.


#2024 4MEN

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 18:17

I wanted to visit a track this year, but after watching this:

 

 

I refuse to pay money for it. If this is the sound level I'm going to be experiencing, I might as well just let my friends going in circles around me with a vacuum cleaner.

 

Seriously, I want to hear the cars roaring all over the track. I want not to be able to hear my own voice while them passing by. FIA DO SOMETHING FOR FUC*S SAKE!  :mad:

You almost didn't hear the cars coming. One blink and you miss the overtake!



#2025 4MEN

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 18:31

Yes!  800hp shrieking in the distance, hearing the cars go up and down through the gears, was part of the live experience.  The effect of that volume *at* a distance conveys it's power.  The nature of the engineering - trying to eke out every last rpm - was *conveyed in the sound*.  You *knew* you were hearing something that was both very precise, but also at the limit.

 

.. and from a great distance.

 

I'm sure someone will invent "silent fireworks" and some people will think "isn't that great!?".

I've been only to one circuit, the one at Barcelona. The first time i saw an F1 in action the most outstanding thing was... the sound, of course. 

 

f1_circuit_de_catalunya_croquis.jpg

 

Sitting at the pelouse in front of turn 5 the experience of being "surrounded" by the cars was amazing. You heard them coming from the straight, passing through turns 1-2. Then disappear and you hear them going back the little hill. You don't see them but you feel them. You follow them with their sound through turn 3 and wait them to appear at turn 4. They brake at 5 and accelerate going to 6-7. They disappear again at 8 but you can still hear them. You could "follow" them from one point for almost half the circuit. That's gone now.


Edited by 4MEN, 07 April 2014 - 23:18.


#2026 Happs

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 00:05



#2027 chipmcdonald

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:43

 

Boy, the announcers and everybody are sure falling all over themselves to say what a wonderful race that was.  It certainly had some very good parts to it.  But looking at the big picture - there was a 10 lap shoot-out green at the end and Mercedes gapped the field by 23 seconds, even while fighting.  I

 

Not only that, Nico is now talking about how the race is somehow representational of "the new formula" - when in reality, part of the reason the race was great is because they had fuel to run at the end.  It didn't have anything to do with quiet V6 turbos or fuel saving.

 

Same thing with Niki, "this new Formula One" - it's not the regulations that made it a great race!  If anything it was remarkable because it was a great race DESPITE the frakking regulations!

 

Nico and Niki seem to be eager to put it out there that "the new rules are great!" for some reason... and it turns out Merceds now appears to be the reason the rules were warped into what we have now.



#2028 chipmcdonald

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:45

 

 

".... and begin to conservatively rev their POWER UNITS to a mild buzzing sound, all of them have one thought in mind - to get to the first corner without going over the fuel delta!"

 

EXCITING!



#2029 Henri Greuter

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:54

 

The easiest solution I can think off right now (since I can't oversee all the complications that change causes to the components involved) is to disconnect one of the exhausts from the turbo and let it vent off the exhaust gasses into the air directly and have the benefit of at least one back of cylinders not being muffled any longer. And keep the other bank still connected to the turbo.

Toyota did such in 2000 in CART when on certain tracks they used only one back of cylinders to drive the turbo. Maybe such could be done in F1 as well.
But again, I have no idaa about the consequences this would have on the construction of cylinderheads etc.
And the noise might be louder, but if it will be better???????


henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 10 April 2014 - 12:54.


#2030 JHSingo

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:56

I'm amazed to see this thread still going. Why?

 

Hasn't everything been said that needs to be said already? It seems to me the same people are just going over the same old points again and again, and not really achieving a great deal. Still, to each their own I suppose.

 

They're going to change it, so chill the eff out.



#2031 uffen

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 13:17

Yes, JHSingo, it has all been said. I feel compelled to mention two things, though. It is to the nature of the dicsussion. It is difficult to have a reasoned debate when there are so many involved and people drift in and out of the thread.

 

For one, please don't suggest that people "get used to it." This is a very weak argument. We can get used to anything, good or bad. After all, we "got used" to processional racing so why rail against it? Let it be processional - we're used to it. Schumacher (or Vettel) winning all the time? Hey, we're used to it, so no complaints allowed. Double points? Absurd and stupid, yes, but we'll get used to it.

 

Secondly, explaining why something is the way it is may be interesting in it's own way, but it is very unlikely to alter one's subjective opinion. For example, we all know why the new engines sound the way they do, so if a person thinks the sound is crappy, reminding him of the reasons behind the sound doesn't help. Explaining that a person is ugly because he, or she, has yellow teeth and a huge scar across his or her face doesn't suddenly make me say, "Oh, I see, now I think she's lovely." Same for engine sound.

 

This has been an interesting thread, full of strong opinion and passion. That's good.



#2032 johnmhinds

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 14:15

I'm amazed to see this thread still going. Why?

 

Hasn't everything been said that needs to be said already? It seems to me the same people are just going over the same old points again and again, and not really achieving a great deal. Still, to each their own I suppose.

 

They're going to change it, so chill the eff out.

 

I don't see what point you're trying to prove by describing every forum thread on the internet...  :drunk:


Edited by johnmhinds, 10 April 2014 - 14:16.


#2033 uffen

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 14:54

I don't see what point you're trying to prove by describing every forum thread on the internet...  :drunk:

At least you didn't say "get used to it!"



#2034 johnmhinds

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 15:24

At least you didn't say "get used to it!"

 

He's not as bad as the guy a couple of pages ago who asked why everyone was complaining about the sound of F1 cars, in the thread about the sound of F1 cars.  :cat:



#2035 nonobaddog

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 15:40

He is just a noobie troll wannabe.  Hopefully he will get better at it.



#2036 JHSingo

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 19:26

He is just a noobie troll wannabe.  Hopefully he will get better at it.

 

So just because I may hold a different opinion to you, I'm a noob?

 

Okay dude. Whatever you say.



#2037 nonobaddog

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 22:53

So just because I may hold a different opinion to you, I'm a noob?

 

Okay dude. Whatever you say.

 

I respect different opinions.  I don't respect the "so chill the eff out" part.  Very trollish and a new low in useless posts.



#2038 nonobaddog

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 22:56

 

The easiest solution I can think off right now (since I can't oversee all the complications that change causes to the components involved) is to disconnect one of the exhausts from the turbo and let it vent off the exhaust gasses into the air directly and have the benefit of at least one back of cylinders not being muffled any longer. And keep the other bank still connected to the turbo.

 

I don't think one bank of a V6 would sound very good.  I haven't heard one but I remember the old days when they had in-line sixes with split manifolds and one guy had a muffler on one half-manifold and a straight pipe on the other half-manifold and it didn't sound very good.  I realize that is a totally different beast but three cylinders just doesn't have the best potential.
 
If they have to use 6 cylinders, I think they should have gone with a supercharger.  They are already spinning the turbo with an electric motor to reduce the lag, kind of going half way to a supercharger.  So why not go with a supercharger with very low lag and no need for the extra electric motor.  Then they could open both banks of cylinders, reduce back pressure and sound a little more like a racing engine.


#2039 Morbus

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 23:14

I believe that if Formula 1 can survive with the current engine sound, I think it can survive with electric engines.

 

And here's why. Last year the engine noise was nice to year (relatively speaking), it had presence, it enriched the experience. This year it's basically some sound, it's basically there to cover up the tire squeal, the gear changes, and whatnot, it's not nice, it's certainly bearable, but not nice, not interesting and doesn't serve any real purpose. The cars come down the straight you used to hear them all the way down. Now? Only when they are already well into the braking zone can you start to hear the first ones, it's pathetic.

 

I more than tired of Brundle's BS logic and "excuses", but his whole deal about "well when was the last time someone attended a grand prix and came home saying "Gosh, that GP sounded fantastic!" is so retarded. I don't spend my days praising the faded white shade of my little Citro├źn Saxo, but if I wake up in the morning and it's suddenly bright pink, I'm gonna complain! This is like suddenly Obama gets the voice of 12 year old girl. Nobody ever praised him for his voice, but you'll look at him not talking in public ever again...



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#2040 johnmhinds

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 23:15

So just because I may hold a different opinion to you, I'm a noob?

 

Okay dude. Whatever you say.

 

You weren't expressing your opinion, you were just complaining about the repetitive nature of web discussion forums.

 

As long as the cars sound like this people are going to continue to express their opinions about it, and you don't get to choose when the discussion ends just because it's boring to you.



#2041 917k

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 23:19

You weren't expressing your opinion, you were just complaining about the repetitive nature of web discussion forums.

 

As long as the cars sound like this people are going to continue to express their opinions about it, and you don't get to choose when the discussion ends just because it's boring to you.

 

But the whole discussion is like complaining about the weather. Without a weather machine, not much you can do - but if you want to devote time and energy railing against something you have no control of, go ahead. To me, a colossal waste of time but that's just IMO.


Edited by 917k, 10 April 2014 - 23:19.


#2042 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 23:43

Explaining that a person is ugly because he, or she, has yellow teeth and a huge scar across his or her face doesn't suddenly make me say, "Oh, I see, now I think she's lovely."

 

Oi!  That's not very nice!  Stop describing my face dammit!  :mad:

 

 

:lol:



#2043 johnmhinds

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 00:16

But the whole discussion is like complaining about the weather. Without a weather machine, not much you can do - but if you want to devote time and energy railing against something you have no control of, go ahead. To me, a colossal waste of time but that's just IMO.

 

Welcome to the internet, you must be new around these parts, we specialise in wasting time on energy on discussing things we have no control over, take a seat in the corner and we'll bring over our complimentary bowl of stfu...



#2044 wepmob2000

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 00:36

But the whole discussion is like complaining about the weather. Without a weather machine, not much you can do - but if you want to devote time and energy railing against something you have no control of, go ahead. To me, a colossal waste of time but that's just IMO.

You have just described about 98% of this and most other forums on the internet however.... and isn't devoting your time to moaning about people wasting their time a waste of your time? :-p

Maybe its not also not a waste of time, didn't a widely signed petition just help pressure a Government minister in the UK into tendering her resignation? I know for sure that if everyone stayed silent on everything they disliked, nothing would ever change.

Edited by wepmob2000, 11 April 2014 - 00:42.


#2045 917k

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 02:05

You have just described about 98% of this and most other forums on the internet however.... and isn't devoting your time to moaning about people wasting their time a waste of your time? :-p

Maybe its not also not a waste of time, didn't a widely signed petition just help pressure a Government minister in the UK into tendering her resignation? I know for sure that if everyone stayed silent on everything they disliked, nothing would ever change.

 

 

Telling someone how you feel about something is all well and good - telling someone how you feel about something, everyday, 10 times a day, is obsessive.

 

We got it the 1st time - the next 50 times were just repetition.



#2046 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:06

 

I don't think one bank of a V6 would sound very good.  I haven't heard one but I remember the old days when they had in-line sixes with split manifolds and one guy had a muffler on one half-manifold and a straight pipe on the other half-manifold and it didn't sound very good.  I realize that is a totally different beast but three cylinders just doesn't have the best potential.
 
If they have to use 6 cylinders, I think they should have gone with a supercharger.  They are already spinning the turbo with an electric motor to reduce the lag, kind of going half way to a supercharger.  So why not go with a supercharger with very low lag and no need for the extra electric motor.  Then they could open both banks of cylinders, reduce back pressure and sound a little more like a racing engine.



As for the sound of the noise, I recall the first generation Turb V6s to be nice sounding engines and I am a bit disappointed in the current breed not sounding as nice. But what to do about that, I don't know.

My idea about half the exhaust pipes open was priomarily to do at least something for those out heare who can't accept that F1 is no longer a eardrum splitting experience anymore and just a thought to increase the level of self-torture for them.

mechanical Superchargers demand power to drive them and they can't porvide the kind of boost levels that a turbo can. So I fear that the combustion engine part of the PU would be much weaker when mechanically supercharged instead of turbocharged. In which case the power obsessed fans will scream hell about gutless powerless engines.

I do belive the turbo is the right direction, but maybe have a look on twinturbos again. I never heard the early single turbo Renault F1s but i was told and have read that the Old RS01 sounded different then the latat twinturbocharged versions.


Henri

#2047 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:47

I believe that if Formula 1 can survive with the current engine sound, I think it can survive with electric engines.

 

And here's why. Last year the engine noise was nice to year (relatively speaking), it had presence, it enriched the experience. This year it's basically some sound, it's basically there to cover up the tire squeal, the gear changes, and whatnot, it's not nice, it's certainly bearable, but not nice, not interesting and doesn't serve any real purpose. The cars come down the straight you used to hear them all the way down. Now? Only when they are already well into the braking zone can you start to hear the first ones, it's pathetic.

 

 

Wrong. OK Jerez has a short straight but I didn't have to strain to hear them.



#2048 Jon83

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:58

 

Boy, the announcers and everybody are sure falling all over themselves to say what a wonderful race that was.  It certainly had some very good parts to it.  But looking at the big picture - there was a 10 lap shoot-out green at the end and Mercedes gapped the field by 23 seconds, even while fighting.  I'd say the 'fight' for the constructor's championship is over with 16 races left.  That can't be good for F1.  And there are only 2 drivers with the potential to win the driver's championship.  At least that might be interesting.
I really have to applaud Mercedes and the way they handled the team orders issue.  Some will say it was stupid but that was real racing spirit and I loved it.  If they keep that up there is a chance for a fight for the driver's championship.

 

 

 

This

 

I watched some of the F1 midweek report last night and there were talking about this race as being one of the best of all time. Complete fantasy.

 

The race was good but in the main part it was due to the safety car. Sure there was some decent action between FI and Williams but IMO it was a lot about tyres. It also displayed how far Mercedes are ahead of everyone else which is exactly what many have been moaning about with regard to Red Bull.

 

I do wonder whether or not people are deliberately going over the top about Sunday's race, especially given how bad the previous two were. I also wonder whether it would have been as loved had Rosberg been in Hamilton's position from the start or had he eventually won.

 

Then again, I'm a cynic.

 

With regard to the sound, I didn't think they sounded any better (or worse) in Bahrain. I thought the GP2 cars sounded a lot better to be honest.


Edited by Jon83, 11 April 2014 - 10:42.


#2049 Jazza

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:46

 

mechanical Superchargers demand power to drive them and they can't porvide the kind of boost levels that a turbo can. So I fear that the combustion engine part of the PU would be much weaker when mechanically supercharged instead of turbocharged. In which case the power obsessed fans will scream hell about gutless powerless engines.

 

 

 

It doesn't have to be a conventional mechanical Supercharger. They are already using motors and battery power to spin up the turbine. Why not just have an electrical powered supercharger only? Have no motors to drive the car like they have now, but instead harvest the energy under braking and use all of it to spin the supercharger.

 

* No waste of engine power on the supercharger. (All power needed comes from the brakes)

* Still capable of more power than a larger NA engine. 

* Plenty of marking potential to make claims of being futuristic and relevant etc. (Irrespective of whether it is or not, just like most claims in F1)

plus

* Plenty of exhaust noise.  

 

As the above seems to hit all the right buttons, I can understand why they didn't consider it. 



#2050 ExFlagMan

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:45

And waste all the exhaust energy just to make some noise. Turbochargers are more relevant to road car manufacturers than electric powered superchargers driven by the limited amount of energy a road car can recover from braking from the limited speeds achievable on most roads, so there is no marketing message to be gained from that.