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Horrible 2014 sound [merged]


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#2651 Tourgott

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 04:50

Yeah,rule changes have always been part of the evolution of F1.Perish the thought the rules of the remain static! OMFG!!

 

The difference is that from 1950 until the mid 2000's most rule changes were wisely done or at least did not change the sport that much (in a stupid way) as ridiculous things like DRS did.

F1 is like a commercial concern. Stupid decisions lead to bankruptcy sooner or later.


Edited by Tourgott, 17 May 2014 - 04:51.


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#2652 uffen

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:46

Actually F1 as the pinnacle is not a recent thing at all.  Colin Chapman dubbed it the pinnacle a long time ago and he was probably not the first.

 

"Formula 1 should be the pinnacle of motor racing. It should have the minimum of parameters controlling performance. There are only four parameters which control a racing car; one is the power from the engine; the second is the aerodynamical download it can produce; the third is the amount of grip which can be obtained by the tyres and the fourth is the weight." - Colin Chapman

 

Also, Formula 1 is named "1" because it was the first formula for open wheeled racing with the others following on.  It has been Formula 1 since the 1940's.

OK, I can't argue with that. Colin was right and his "pinnacle" matches mine the way I see it. Notice he didn't use the words technology, sport, marketing, racing, etc. A simple pinnacle - the top of the formula heap. Now F1 has to be the pinnacle of everything.



#2653 nonobaddog

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:57

OK, I can't argue with that. Colin was right and his "pinnacle" matches mine the way I see it. Notice he didn't use the words technology, sport, marketing, racing, etc. A simple pinnacle - the top of the formula heap. Now F1 has to be the pinnacle of everything.

 

I totally agree with that.  Formula 1 should be the pinnacle of Motor Racing, period.  Not the rest of the garbage.  What we have now is what happens when they lose that focus and try to force the other stuff like marketing and "road relevance" on top of it.  The racing inevitably gets diluted.



#2654 4MEN

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 16:22

I totally agree with that.  Formula 1 should be the pinnacle of Motor Racing, period.  Not the rest of the garbage.  What we have now is what happens when they lose that focus and try to force the other stuff like marketing and "road relevance" on top of it.  The racing inevitably gets diluted.

And what "pinnacle of motorport" should mean?. I think it deserves a proper topic.

My opinion? The car that any young boy or girl dream to race one day. Biggest acceleration and braking, and biggest cornering speed (that excludes drag racing). A jet fighter on wheels, basically.



#2655 Henri Greuter

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 09:48

And what "pinnacle of motorport" should mean?. I think it deserves a proper topic.

My opinion? The car that any young boy or girl dream to race one day. Biggest acceleration and braking, and biggest cornering speed (that excludes drag racing). A jet fighter on wheels, basically.

 

 

Biggest.. biggest... biggest...

Must the designers make the cockpits large enough so the drivers can wear ant-G suits to cope with all the acceleration, decelleration and G forces?

And you really expect to see some racing and fighting for positions if topseeds and corner speeds are at the maximum?

 

Henri


Edited by Henri Greuter, 18 May 2014 - 09:48.


#2656 4MEN

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:44

Biggest.. biggest... biggest...

Must the designers make the cockpits large enough so the drivers can wear ant-G suits to cope with all the acceleration, decelleration and G forces?

And you really expect to see some racing and fighting for positions if topseeds and corner speeds are at the maximum?

 

Henri

Maybe if the cars are hard to drive and physically difficult to manage the drivers would be more prone to make mistakes and therefore lose the position.



#2657 Henri Greuter

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 21:25

Maybe if the cars are hard to drive and physically difficult to manage the drivers would be more prone to make mistakes and therefore lose the position.

 

Mistakes.....

Well...

 

Given how less tolerant the current cars are, I think you're asking to see a lot of hi-speed crashes because with the kind of speed you want to see there is so little room for error, let alone time to recover, that it will end in off track excursons. In the case of non-Tilke tracks that means a bigger chance for contact with tire wall or whatever.

Or do you want to see more Tilke tracks with large run off areas so the cars can become the corner taking dragsters you wanna see?

 

Henri


Edited by Henri Greuter, 18 May 2014 - 21:25.


#2658 mongo580

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 22:33

So what was the outcome of the Trumpet Testing? Apart from it sounding like wet butt cheeks slapping together. Will the teams adopt?

What did the European fans think of the new sound? I have yet to see any comments apart from fan boys on here.



#2659 chipmcdonald

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 22:44

Bothers me not in the slightest now that you mentioned it.BTW,what revs did the Cosworth DFVs and the inline 4 turbo Beemers of yeasteryear peek at?...and who really cared?...and and was the racing any less enthralling? :rolleyes:

 

1) those engines were not being used *after* the advent of 20,000 rpm engines;

2) those engines were not being doled out and restricted based on regulations.

 

If they were running the present "power units" *to their limit*, that would be great, I'd have no problem with that.  Fuel flow restricted, and "you'd better not blow any up or else we're going to punish you further" - that's lame and has nothing to do with F1.



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#2660 chipmcdonald

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 22:52


So, when, say, M-B pulls out in the next while they will likely want to realise some of their asset and they will sell the blueprints and machine tools to someone else, maybe an Ilmor off-shoot. So Ilmor will continue to produce the renamed engines. Development will have less money behind it, perhaps, but with F1 freezing so much for long periods this isn't so bad.

 

Exactly - and Ferrari isn't going anywhere.  Only Ferrari and Cosworth providing 3 liter V10's running at 18,000+?  That would be sooooo awful. :rolleyes:

 

Smaller makes would come in.  It's not as if F1 racing is the only thing companies make engines for.  I'd rather have a series running V10 Cosworths to the limit, Kia V10's and whatever, than overly expensive Goldbergian "power units".

 

 

If F1 is honest, and a real "competition" - Audi and Toyota's TDI engines are just as green, let them be engine suppliers.   Let Drayson run his all electric system.  Let GE supply turbine engines.   THAT is "F1", not the phony charade we have now.

 

"Ok, let's fight, but, no hitting below the belt, and... you've got to wear the Comfy Cushion gloves, and limit your swings to 1 per minute.  And, you can't punch harder than 20 psi, and absolutely you may not train any harder before a fight begins.  And you must not eat breakfast beforehand, or accept any water in between rounds.  And ... and.. "

 

:rolleyes:



#2661 chipmcdonald

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 22:58

Yeah,rule changes have always been part of the evolution of F1.Perish the thought the rules of the remain static! OMFG!!

 

So what if the rules remain static?  Would we be seeing 22,000 rpm cars now?

 

Hows about pnumatic valves? Or at a pot shot, double clutches enabling seemless shifting??

 

How would these things have come about if they were going by 2014 rules?  THEY WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED. 

 

It was F1's lack of regulation that allowed real innovation.  The engines now are FROZEN, and even before that SPEC.  Having everyone agree "hey guys, let's build new engines for next year!  Hurray!"  does not mean miraculously innovation is going to happen.   "Innovation" this year is Mercedes running the turbo axle to the other side of the engine? 

 

Sorry, that is not quite as interesting of an "innovation" as pneumatic valves to allow trans-15,000 rpm to occur, or clutches that shift in less than 3 milliseconds....  There can be no more real innovation.



#2662 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 14:04

 I agree there is nothing to be gained by making the current engines louder, much like a chavved up Civic etc blatting away just making a racket. 

 

:mad:

 

:up:  :up:


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 19 May 2014 - 14:07.


#2663 jjcale

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 08:32

I suspect that like me, most of you have not heard the cars live yet .... so this may be the best substitute we will have for a little while.

 



#2664 Exb

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 09:00

I suspect that like me, most of you have not heard the cars live yet .... so this may be the best substitute we will have for a little while.


Great video. Any one with Monaco knowledge know where it was shot from? Was it from the Rocher, that place looks a scary place to stand especially when its been raining.

#2665 Tourgott

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:02

Sounds so ridiculous through the tunnel  :lol:  :lol:



#2666 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 13:09

They sound just as terrible here as they have everywhere else...



#2667 superden

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 13:52

Nothing wrong with it, here or anywhere else. You don't like it, well that's unfortunate but the negativity from some on here is just boring.



#2668 SPBHM

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 13:57

I suspect that like me, most of you have not heard the cars live yet .... so this may be the best substitute we will have for a little while.

 

 

comparing it to the 1970's (more like a week ago to be more precise)

 



#2669 Nav

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 12:31

I have been a committed F1 fan for over 20 years however hearing the cars at Monaco one word comes to mind. PATHETIC.

 

My lawnmower is louder. F1 is about speed and noise. I still remember Montoya thundering through Monza in his V10 BMW in 2003 qualifying, like a rocket. It was fast and it was loud.

 

And all we have now is a bunch of Peugeot 206's. I have switched off and I am sure many others have too.


Edited by Nav, 25 May 2014 - 12:32.


#2670 stkildaresident

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 12:50

Yeap, they are no longer extraordinary. They have no "IMPACT". They really do sound like leaf blowers. Don't care which driver wins whatever, their glory is not going to put food on my table, but I was interested in F1 for the last 19 years because the cars used to invoke an emotional response which made it worthwhile. Bring back V10's ya bastards !! :mad:



#2671 Dalton007

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 13:56

Got used to the sound. I really like the sound of the turbo, perhaps because I drive a turbo diesel.  :p



#2672 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 14:23

Bastard.  ;)  Why drive a turbo diesel when you can drive an S2000?  Why!???  ;)

 

They most definetely sound like a junior formula car.

 

If you like them, then I guess you think that...

 

ITEM 1

 

is as good as ITEM 2

 

 

Hint: It's not:wave: Just being factual.  :p


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 25 May 2014 - 14:26.


#2673 skid solo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:42

I suspect that like me, most of you have not heard the cars live yet .... so this may be the best substitute we will have for a little while.

https://www.youtube....h?v=vPn8tGhR-1c

I was in Monaco and the engines sound louder then this. What's noticeable is the difference between the manufacturers. The Renault cackles and coughs at low speed . The Mercedes is by far the smoothest sound but when in a Mercedes it is markedly different from when it's in the Williams and Mclaren. The two Mercedes sound so smooth right through the rev range. To me they sound beautiful. You can hear the turbo and under braking they sound a bit like jet engines. Personally I loved them. When the GP2 cars came out they sounded archaic in comparison. I think in time people will begin to appreciate that we are listening to advances in technology. Sound after all is wasted energy, so the quieter they are the more efficient they are.
I went to Monaco with a friend who builds drag racing engines and he just kept shaking his head saying, " it's absolutely awesome what they are doing, squeezing that much power out of those power plants."
It's so easy for some people to sit in their armchairs with a beer in their hands criticising what they see on the TV without any appreciation of the achievement."
They are right about one thing, it is not what F1 was about, but it is very much what F1 is about now and I for one think it's brilliant"

Edited by skid solo, 27 May 2014 - 10:42.


#2674 chipmcdonald

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 11:29

It *could* be brilliant.  Except it's deliberately *limited* - and convoluted for no reason.  

 

"Achievement" - nobody is short changing Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault on what they're *having* to do.    It's that it's based on a mistaken premise that has nothing to do with the way F1 has been until now.   What they're doing isn't the result in competiting with each other, as much as it is getting on with a ridiculous set of rules. 

 

Which is what it sounds like: the mild percolation of corporate grey. 



#2675 scheivlak

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 11:48

I think the cars sounded great in Monaco with those menacing growls ricocheting between the buildings.



#2676 muramasa

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 12:24

 F1 is about speed and noise.

nope, F1 is about taking in, leading, finetuning and exercising new technology and always evolving. When it becomes "noise for the sake of noise", noise itself becomes the purpose, then F1 loses all the point and relevance.



#2677 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 12:24

Nice to see that when people hear them live they're enjoying it.



#2678 JHSingo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 13:00

nope, F1 is about taking in, leading, finetuning and exercising new technology and always evolving. When it becomes "noise for the sake of noise", noise itself becomes the purpose, then F1 loses all the point and relevance.

 

Well said.

 

I fail to understand these rather simple minded people who say they're going to stop watching, just because of the sound. I'd suggest that if the only reason you watched F1 before was because of the sound...well, the sport never really was for you in the first place. There is so much more to F1 than just the noise, that if you can't appreciate it just because there's a different sound now, there's plenty of alternative forms of racing you can watch instead.

 

The cars are still fast. They're still difficult to drive, and if anything this year are much harder to driver than they have been in previous years. Just look at the way the cars squirm about out of corners just from that video previously posted.  So it really is quite funny when people argue that they're somehow not as difficult to drive as they were previously. Visually, for me at least, this year is far more impressive than what we've had in recent years.



#2679 skid solo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 16:34

It *could* be brilliant.  Except it's deliberately *limited* - and convoluted for no reason.  
 
"Achievement" - nobody is short changing Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault on what they're *having* to do.    It's that it's based on a mistaken premise that has nothing to do with the way F1 has been until now.   What they're doing isn't the result in competiting with each other, as much as it is getting on with a ridiculous set of rules. 
 
Which is what it sounds like: the mild percolation of corporate grey. 


I disagree with you. A painter needs a frame and a designer needs a set of aero regulations to design within. These engines have parameters which have been very cleverly thought out. I have watched f1 since the early 1970's and other than the previous turbo era have never been so excited by the technology in f1 as I am now. It is relevant and very clever. I can't see how that is a mistaken premise?
I was delighted to watch them around Monaco and see they have lost none of their magic. They are beautiful pieces of technological design and far prettier in real life than on TV

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#2680 4MEN

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 17:11

I disagree with you. A painter needs a frame and a designer needs a set of aero regulations to design within. These engines have parameters which have been very cleverly thought out. I have watched f1 since the early 1970's and other than the previous turbo era have never been so excited by the technology in f1 as I am now. It is relevant and very clever. I can't see how that is a mistaken premise?
I was delighted to watch them around Monaco and see they have lost none of their magic. They are beautiful pieces of technological design and far prettier in real life than on TV

http://americansolarchallenge.org/



#2681 Tourgott

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 17:37

Nice to see that when people hear them live they're enjoying it.

 

I finally had the chance to talk to some friends in Spain. They actually went to the GP two weeks ago and they said it was horrible. They were pretty disappointed just like the majority of the people they asked.

So I have a feeling the opposite is correct. When people hear them live they're even more disappointed.


Edited by Tourgott, 27 May 2014 - 17:37.


#2682 skid solo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 17:43

I finally had the chance to talk to some friends in Spain. They actually went to the GP two weeks ago and they said it was horrible. They were pretty disappointed just like the majority of the people they asked.
So I have a feeling the opposite is correct. When people hear them live they're even more disappointed.


When you say people hear them live you are suggesting all people. As I have heard them live and wasn't disappointed your assumption is completely wrong. I suggest not listening to your friends, go buy a ticket and judge for yourself.

#2683 skid solo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 17:45

http://americansolarchallenge.org/


Not sure if you are taking the P or not 4 men? Problem with solar power in the UK is it rains all the time

#2684 4MEN

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 17:56

Not sure if you are taking the P or not 4 men? Problem with solar power in the UK is it rains all the time

Just saying, F1 doesn't need to be relevant. There are plenty of other competitions targeting that goal.



#2685 Tourgott

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 17:56

When you say people hear them live you are suggesting all people. As I have heard them live and wasn't disappointed your assumption is completely wrong. I suggest not listening to your friends, go buy a ticket and judge for yourself.

 

I only wanted to clarify that the assumption above is completely wrong. My friends talked to at least 100 people (they camped at the track) and nobody liked the sound. A few didn't care but the majority hated it.

At least for me this is a more reliable source than the few exceptions in this forum.

 

BTW. I went to the German GP for many years but I sold my ticket a few weeks ago just like a lot of my German friends.



#2686 skid solo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:33

I only wanted to clarify that the assumption above is completely wrong. My friends talked to at least 100 people (they camped at the track) and nobody liked the sound. A few didn't care but the majority hated it.
At least for me this is a more reliable source than the few exceptions in this forum.
 
BTW. I went to the German GP for many years but I sold my ticket a few weeks ago just like a lot of my German friends.


Well I talked with more than 100 people and they all loved it..

#2687 skid solo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:38

Just saying, F1 doesn't need to be relevant. There are plenty of other competitions targeting that goal.


For car manufacturers to be involved F1 has to be relevant. If we want to return to the V8 cosworth DFR and kick out the manufacturers then no it doesn't. But then for that we can go and watch historic f1...

#2688 paulb

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:48

They sound just as terrible here as they have everywhere else...

I thought the confines of Monaco amplified the terribleness.



#2689 Jamiednm

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:55

I saw them live at the Spanish GP and liked it. As a previous poster said, the Mercedes sound amazing under breaking.

#2690 skid solo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 19:05

I thought the confines of Monaco amplified the terribleness.


It's historic f1 for you then boyo

#2691 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 19:36

I'm starting to like the sound actually. I appreciate the fact that we can hear things other than the engine noise. all the whistling and the crackling... Actually you hear what the car does.



#2692 A310V6

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 19:46

@SkidSolo "For car manufacturers to be involved F1 has to be relevant. If we want to return to the V8 cosworth DFR and kick out the manufacturers"

 

 

Cosworth has some nice V10’s, i prefer these.

 

I can accept the sound of the V6, if we had enough power, now we have nothing.

 

Sorry but if this is what the manufacturers want, give me F1 with only Ferrari & Cosworth engines and decent power.



#2693 skid solo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 20:04

@SkidSolo "For car manufacturers to be involved F1 has to be relevant. If we want to return to the V8 cosworth DFR and kick out the manufacturers"
 
 
Cosworth has some nice V10’s, i prefer these.
 
I can accept the sound of the V6, if we had enough power, now we have nothing.
 
Sorry but if this is what the manufacturers want, give me F1 with only Ferrari & Cosworth engines and decent power.


What are you on about? They have loads more torque which means the drivers are short shifting through the gearbox constantly to control rear wheel spin..

#2694 nonobaddog

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:09

I could handle the slower lap times IF the cars didn't sound like wet farts and IF the cars were not so ugly and IF the racing were more competitive.

The rule changes caused all of these factors to get worse than previous years in Formula 1.  Only rule changes can fix it.  The question is will future rule changes lean toward improving Formula 1 or making it even worse?



#2695 scheivlak

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:30

. My friends talked to at least 100 people (they camped at the track) and nobody liked the sound. A few didn't care but the majority hated it.

At least for me this is a more reliable source than the few exceptions in this forum.

 

I'm afraid that you're just about as trustworthy and reliable as your avatar guy.



#2696 4MEN

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:43

For car manufacturers to be involved F1 has to be relevant. If we want to return to the V8 cosworth DFR and kick out the manufacturers then no it doesn't. But then for that we can go and watch historic f1...

What car manufacturers? We have just Renault and Mercedes. They shouldn't be THAT powerful (unlike their engines, :)) to dictate the way F1 has to be.



#2697 McLaren

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:43

I went to the Chinese Grand Prix this year and thought that they sounded great. Not as loud as the previous era's, but more interesting. Videos don't do the sound justice.



#2698 skid solo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:04

What car manufacturers? We have just Renault and Mercedes. They shouldn't be THAT powerful (unlike their engines, :)) to dictate the way F1 has to be.


Well the last time I watched F1 we had Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, lotus, Caterham and McLaren. All manufacturers of cars. Next year Honda is coming back in.

#2699 scheivlak

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:08

What car manufacturers? We have just Renault and Mercedes. They shouldn't be THAT powerful (unlike their engines, :)) to dictate the way F1 has to be.

Well, we still have them now (and AFAIK Ferraris are not kit cars) and Honda will be joining next year.

Both Mercedes and Renault were ready to quit at some moment if there wasn't a change.

 

But I'm glad you acknowledge the power of their engines - if that's what you've meant  :D



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#2700 4MEN

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:17

Well the last time I watched F1 we had Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, lotus, Caterham and McLaren. All manufacturers of cars. Next year Honda is coming back in.

 

Well, we still have them now (and AFAIK Ferraris are not kit cars) and Honda will be joining next year.

Both Mercedes and Renault were ready to quit at some moment if there wasn't a change.

 

But I'm glad you acknowledge the power of their engines - if that's what you've meant   :D

 

Marussia also manufactures cars, or did. Infiniti, too. Do you prefer I call them "engine makers?"

 

I don't include Ferrari because they obviously are not in F1 just for selling their road cars.