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Horrible 2014 sound [merged]


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#3151 nonobaddog

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:04

They have to use the same 8 ratios for Monza as they do for Monaco.

 

So, if they can use 8th gear in Monaco it will be low in the rev range - well below 10,000rpm. At Monza they will be pulling 12,000rpm in the same gear, or more.

 

I doubt anyone actually used 8th at Monaco, and rarely atthe other circuits so far.

 

In previous years they had one less gera, 7 in total. But they could change the ratios and/or the final drive to suit each circuit. This year they are stuck with what they've got.

 

Yes, you are right.  I was thinking they could still change ratios when ever they wanted.  Now they can only change the set of ratios once per season.

 

I suspect they simply do not use 8th gear at the slow tracks.  But they still have a gear for each speed range.  They would not drive around at low RPM when they have a lower gear if they were racing, they might do it to save fuel though.  So I don't see where that implies any thing about the power band really.



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#3152 Wes350

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 06:04

I still have a hard time understanding how FOM can be so much worse than a fan with a phone trackside:

 

 

THAT sounds very cool. I like it.

 

An almost Sci-Fi sound to the cars as they pass at speed.

 

Why wouldn't they do more to get that on their broadcasts???

 

Too busy trying to get shots of the crowd and drivers girlfriends I suppose...



#3153 Clatter

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 11:03

Because the rules have limited the maximum amount of fuel and the broadcasters have sometimes highlighted drivers fuel saving the assumption is that they are driving around trying to save fuel.

The reality is that, at least for most races, they spend no more time fuel saving than at any tiem since refuelling was banned.

Over the past several years the teams have rarely, if ever, actually put enough fuel in the cars to complete the race distance at full power. In some instances, like Malaysia 2013, teams have miscalculated (Mercedes thought that the GP would be wetter, therefore slower and less fuel would be required).

In some races this year the teams have not even bothered to put in a full 100kg of fuel. Williams, notably, never seems to be in danger of using 100kg of fuel during a race.

Also, the 8 gears are for every race this year.

From Monza and Spa, to Monaco.

The fact that soem teams have used 8th on tracks not as fast as Monza would suggest that they have a very wide power band. Lewis Hamilton commented in testing that he coudl take hairpins in 4th or 5th gear....possible because of the power band.


Whilst I agree that there had always been fuel saving going on I do think it's more severe now than previously. I didn't notice it too much on TV but it was very noticeable when sat at Silverstone last week. The length of time off throttle at corner entry was a surprise and braking far less severe than I can ever remember.

#3154 JHSingo

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:28

 

They don't watch to get premenantly damaged hearing of course, but the loudness and the way the sound went through your body is still something that could be enjoyed.

 

What is the first thing someone who goes to a rock concert tells you? How loud it was or how it felt to be near a big speaker, F1 is no different.

 

 

 

I guess it is just a personal thing. I once went to a rock concert and found it a deeply unpleasant experience. It was far too loud, the booming nature of the speakers made me feel ill, and by the end of it I was highly relieved to get out of such a hot and claustrophobic environment. Afterwards, I told myself never again. So for me, I don't need to be deafened at a race track to have a good time. If the main thing you want from F1 is loud engines, there's plenty of alternative racing series to choose from.


Edited by JHSingo, 12 July 2014 - 12:28.


#3155 4MEN

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:46

THAT sounds very cool. I like it.

 

An almost Sci-Fi sound to the cars as they pass at speed.

 

Why wouldn't they do more to get that on their broadcasts???

 

Too busy trying to get shots of the crowd and drivers girlfriends I suppose...

This take shows speed but not advertising nor sponsors.



#3156 Tourgott

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 15:14

 

This moment when you suddenly love the V6. Hilarious  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:



#3157 AlanK

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 22:40

Ha ha. Thats like a giant Scaletrix set.

 

As for the F1. Been visiting Silverstone since 1987. Loved the sound this time around. At the entry to Abbey the sound was amazing especially the Marussia. Sat on the terracing at the exit of Luffield was equally impressive. Becketts and Copse were also good especially on the exit as the cars struggled for grip and the full exhaust note kicked in.

 

It obviously hasn`t put people off. The 3rd largest ever weekend gate and ticket sales already up for next year. This may suprise some people but its not a noise contest. Its not obligatory for F1 cars to be louder that GP3 or GP2. In fact they sounded antiquated compared to the F1 technology.

 

It is what it is and one day it will change again. If you don`t like it, don`t go. Attendance figures suggest you won`t be missed!



#3158 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:24

I've always thought that to be a mainly British problem. Move next a racing circuit, airport\airfield etc. etc and then complain about the noise, utterly stupid.

 

It is very Dutch as well. Zandvoort, Assen and the airport @ Schiphol all suffer from it.



#3159 Wuzak

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:50

It is very Dutch as well. Zandvoort, Assen and the airport @ Schiphol all suffer from it.

 

Even Monza has had that problem.



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#3160 Jon83

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:57

Ha ha. Thats like a giant Scaletrix set.

 

As for the F1. Been visiting Silverstone since 1987. Loved the sound this time around. At the entry to Abbey the sound was amazing especially the Marussia. Sat on the terracing at the exit of Luffield was equally impressive. Becketts and Copse were also good especially on the exit as the cars struggled for grip and the full exhaust note kicked in.

 

It obviously hasn`t put people off. The 3rd largest ever weekend gate and ticket sales already up for next year. This may suprise some people but its not a noise contest. Its not obligatory for F1 cars to be louder that GP3 or GP2. In fact they sounded antiquated compared to the F1 technology.

 

It is what it is and one day it will change again. If you don`t like it, don`t go. Attendance figures suggest you won`t be missed!

 

I don't think the ticket numbers being high is a surprise considering there was such a strong possibility of a British winner.

 

 



#3161 Tourgott

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 15:58

It obviously hasn`t put people off. The 3rd largest ever weekend gate and ticket sales already up for next year. This may suprise some people but its not a noise contest. Its not obligatory for F1 cars to be louder that GP3 or GP2. In fact they sounded antiquated compared to the F1 technology.

 

            #3126            



#3162 Fonzey

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 18:16

THAT sounds very cool. I like it.

 

An almost Sci-Fi sound to the cars as they pass at speed.

 

Why wouldn't they do more to get that on their broadcasts???

 

Too busy trying to get shots of the crowd and drivers girlfriends I suppose...

 

The FOM coverage sucked during the V8s too, the trackside sound was FAR better than anything FOM produced, even through mobile phones etc. It's more damaging now because the V6s have got more subtle qualities in their soundtrack, IMO.



#3163 Lazy

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:42

I still have a hard time understanding how FOM can be so much worse than a fan with a phone trackside:

 

Indeed and why don't we get some camera angles like that as well that really give the impression of speed?



#3164 Clatter

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:01

Indeed and why don't we get some camera angles like that as well that really give the impression of speed?

Because you don't a lovely view of the trackside advertising.



#3165 nonobaddog

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 13:41

 

Too busy trying to get shots of the crowd and drivers girlfriends I suppose...

 

Funny, I don't mind at all when they show the drivers girlfriends.



#3166 Lazy

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 13:48

Because you don't a lovely view of the trackside advertising.

True, but you might get more people watching to see the advertising in the wide shots.



#3167 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 19:15

Because you don't a lovely view of the trackside advertising.

 

Little to prevent an ad on the back side of the guard rail or on the opposite side, in that particular camera position. And there would not have to be a pillar right through Emirates.  I'm pretty sure there would be solutions if anyone could be bothered at all.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 15 July 2014 - 19:16.


#3168 Wuzak

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:20

Whilst I agree that there had always been fuel saving going on I do think it's more severe now than previously. I didn't notice it too much on TV but it was very noticeable when sat at Silverstone last week. The length of time off throttle at corner entry was a surprise and braking far less severe than I can ever remember.

 

Thinking about this, it may not have been fuel saving, as such. It may have been harvesting for the ERS.

 

A while ago I calculated, very roughly, the amount of energy that could be recovered under braking. Silverstone was by far the lowest total. as low as 3/8 of the allowed limit.

 

The early lift off may be an attempt at topping off the energy store, with the team calculating that the benefit of extra ERS usage is greater than the loss of time in braking zones.



#3169 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:24

Thinking about this, it may not have been fuel saving, as such. It may have been harvesting for the ERS.

 

A while ago I calculated, very roughly, the amount of energy that could be recovered under braking. Silverstone was by far the lowest total. as low as 3/8 of the allowed limit.

 

The early lift off may be an attempt at topping off the energy store, with the team calculating that the benefit of extra ERS usage is greater than the loss of time in braking zones.

 

 

 

Thinking along that line....  Monza could well become very, very interesting ......

 

Henri



#3170 Clatter

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:52

Thinking about this, it may not have been fuel saving, as such. It may have been harvesting for the ERS.

 

A while ago I calculated, very roughly, the amount of energy that could be recovered under braking. Silverstone was by far the lowest total. as low as 3/8 of the allowed limit.

 

The early lift off may be an attempt at topping off the energy store, with the team calculating that the benefit of extra ERS usage is greater than the loss of time in braking zones.

You could be right. Either way it does result in a dramatic decrease in the spectacle, and the cars being louder would not have improved things..



#3171 Madera

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:23

I really miss this :(

https://www.youtube....h?v=5SoZiTxdQyw



#3172 Spinnekop

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:27

As I recall it, the restrictions and "stagnation" was due to the perceived need to slow the cars down and retain driver control over actions. This was done for safety reasons and to prevent so many circuits from becoming too small/tight/inadequate for the task at hand. For a time there certainly was fewer cubic metres of money floating around and that hampered the big, obvious strides.

 

There was still innovation and development, though. Reliability grew by leaps and bounds - not a small engineering feat. Engine revs soared into the 20K+ range and there was a lot of engine and fuel and lubrication development behind that. Then there's the dreaded "aero" stuff which gained back so much of the losses associated with the other restrictions. There are plenty of other examples. Most of this was not visible or sexy or even particularly desired, but it was there. I cannot comment on LMP but they had their formula and F1 had theirs.

 

Comment 2614 misses my point (but may nail others). The past had much to admire as does the present, and, I hope, the future. Alas "change" doesn't mean "good change" and for many the engine howl of the recent past is sorely missed. I will judge the current sound when I hear it live (very soon!). I'm sure those that sneer at howl-lovers complain about other things that the present has to offer - double points, DRS, assigned driver numbers - take your pick from a long list - which you did by complaining about technical stagnation. Obviously not everything the FIA causes meets with everyone's approval.

 

As an aside I find this whole "F1 is the pinnacle" thing a rather recent invention. Every race series runs to a formula, even if it is not in the name. Formula 1 was simply the open wheel/open cockpit formula that was at the top end. Formula Ford, Formula 3, Formula 2, Formula 1. Plus all the other (Atlantic, Inter-Continental, Tasman, etc.) in between. It was the pinnacle because of where it sat in the order of things, not because it had to have the latest tech, or the biggest audience, or the best drivers (some of the best ran Le Mans, CanAm, etc.). Now F1 has to be the pinnacle of everything (speed, technology, motor sport, development, racing, and on and on) and it is becoming more and more an artificial and the audience is becoming increasingly polarized (witness so many debates on the Atlas forums). Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

 

 

Actually F1 as the pinnacle is not a recent thing at all.  Colin Chapman dubbed it the pinnacle a long time ago and he was probably not the first.

 

"Formula 1 should be the pinnacle of motor racing. It should have the minimum of parameters controlling performance. There are only four parameters which control a racing car; one is the power from the engine; the second is the aerodynamical download it can produce; the third is the amount of grip which can be obtained by the tyres and the fourth is the weight." - Colin Chapman

 

Also, Formula 1 is named "1" because it was the first formula for open wheeled racing with the others following on.  It has been Formula 1 since the 1940's.

:up: Howzit guys been offline for a bit so have enjoyed catching up with the discussion.

 

Good assesments there. I referred to F1 needing to be the pinnacle sport, by that I meant the cars should be the most challenging, exciting open wheel series that only the very best drivers can do well in, For that reason if a racing driver manages to get into F1 he has reached the highest level of his potential career, no question about it.

 

Back when Colin Chapman said that the F1 cars were not even the fastest race cars around, they were easily trumped in power and speed by the sports racers but it was still the ultimate formula. As mentioned rarely have F1 cars had the most new and advanced drivetrains out there but thats not the point of racing after all. Also the beautifull and ingenius engineering that went into the engines of the 90's was not obvious but amazing.

 

As a marketing exercise F1's product appeal is based on manufacturers having their brand associated with the sport. Having a sensible and sociably responsible drive train that doesn't excite removes some of the aspirational knock on effect car companies are looking for. The powers that be have somehow lost their flipping minds and shot themselves in the foot.

 

If having the latest tech defines what makes a car special then a Prius is a more aspirational road car than a Ferrari F40, Porsche Carrera GT or McLaran F1? :drunk:  Thank goodness my Alfa has broken so I can finally get a Honda Jazz, My palms are getting sweaty already in anticipation of all that excitement.... oooh so sensible  ;) 



#3173 TurboF1

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 04:06


 
This moment when you suddenly love the V6. Hilarious  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


At 33-36 seconds, THAT'S what I call flexible bodywork :lol: ;)

#3174 Lazy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:09

 

If having the latest tech defines what makes a car special then a Prius is a more aspirational road car than a Ferrari F40, Porsche Carrera GT or McLaran F1? :drunk:  Thank goodness my Alfa has broken so I can finally get a Honda Jazz, My palms are getting sweaty already in anticipation of all that excitement.... oooh so sensible  ;)

I don't see what's so aspirational about those cars, pretty much any road car will do a much better job on the road and you're much better off with a proper race car on the track. 

 

Their only function is to show how much money you have or to compensate for penile inadequacy. Normally both.


Edited by Lazy, 18 July 2014 - 08:10.


#3175 electro

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 16:01

Just got back from Friday practice at Hockenheim, and though I really hate to admit it (since I really do find the new engines/tech interesting & really don't care for the whole "F1 was better back then" sentiment), the cars are just not that exciting sounding. The last races I went to were in the V10 era, and the visceral bone chilling feeling you got  from the insane sound of those engines really was a totally different experience from what I saw today.



 



#3176 Spinnekop

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 13:43

I don't see what's so aspirational about those cars, pretty much any road car will do a much better job on the road and you're much better off with a proper race car on the track. 

 

Their only function is to show how much money you have or to compensate for penile inadequacy. Normally both.

OK good point there maybe not the best example. Good thing I'm riding a scooter at the moment then :lol:



#3177 KTownDevil

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 18:23

Back from Hockenheim.

 

The sound was really bad, never seen so many people without ear protection. 



#3178 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 18:50

Just back from Hockenheim and the cars sound just fine. Quieter but it detracted nothing from my experience.

That being said, the grandstands in the stadium section are very close to the track, when the cars were any distance away at all they were very very quiet indeed. I imagine the sound is much more of an issue at the more open tracks.

#3179 Vepe1995

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 19:55

Back from Hockenheim.

 

The sound was really bad, never seen so many people without ear protection. 

 

Was the sound bad (meaning the actual sound, not loudness) or just not loud enough (which is what I presume you mean, judging from your comment about ear protection)?



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#3180 KTownDevil

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 19:58

Was the sound bad (meaning the actual sound, not loudness) or just not loud enough (which is what I presume you mean, judging from your comment about ear protection)?

 

Both. They sound like an vacuum cleaner, not spectacular at all. Everyone around me was pretty disappointed. We loved the GP2 cars, much better.



#3181 ApolloBluecat

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 20:02

Why do people get so hooked up on the sound the cars make?

 

They need to look at the racing and if it's good and close.... then is that not more important?



#3182 chipmcdonald

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:01

Why do people get so hooked up on the sound the cars make?

 

They need to look at the racing and if it's good and close.... then is that not more important?

 

 Impressive sounds stir the imagination and visceral edge of watching a "battle".

 

 For those that continue to want to be bemused in this thread in which that idea means nothing - I can't understand.  

 

 My town hosted the National Southern Nationals drag boat race this weekend, on the river located about half a mile away from my house.  They're running it about 2 miles downstream from where I live.

 

I could hear the eliminations from inside my house yesterday.  Impressive, even at the distance.  But I'm not into drag racing, or boats, and I had other things to do, so I was at home....

 

... but occasionally one would turn around down at my end of the river, and hit the throttle.  They're top fuel dragsters on water; the sound is like a more convoluted thunder, combined with more overtones, a subsonic roar.  Makes my German shepherd freak out, shakes the walls. 

 

Makes *me* want to go see them race.

 

I would have today, except it was a nasty, rainy day.  I've never gone to watch them, I've always had to be somewhere else, but I would have today - and the compelling reason would have been to see the machines that made that sound race.

 

 25,000 spectators bring in out of town revenue; not F1 or Augusta National $$$$$$ revenue, but revenue.   Lots of multi-million $ houses along the river near there, nobody seems to mind for one weekend a year, basically having a top fuel race in their backyards.  What if you lived literally on a top-fuel drag strip...?

 

 

augusta-southern-nationals.jpg

 

 

http://visitaugustag...n-nationals.jpg


Edited by chipmcdonald, 21 July 2014 - 06:03.