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Alonso to Red Bull ?


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#651 Winter98

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 20:48

Apart from sky gate which was obvious a one off thing which happened 6 years ago, Alonso has been far less disruptive to any team than Vettel has been. I don't recall Alonso crashing into his team mate, throwing away a 1-2 for his team. Sure he once waived his hand for 2 seconds in anger, but some how I don't think that compares to crashing into your team mate. I also don't recall Alonso blatantly disobeying team orders like Vettel did, or being so disliked by a team mate as Vettel is by Webber. So despite the hyperbole nit picking that you listed, the fact is in substance, Alonso is nowhere near the disruptive force he is claimed to be and less than Vettel. I think he would be embraced by the red bull team and far more beloved than the childish kid they currently have.

So lets be clear here. The biggest team conflicts and spats since 2007 have been at Redbull between Vettel and his team mate. Vettel has a history of having conflict with his team and team mates.


Besides Spygate, you seem to have forgotten the entire fiasco that was 2007 and Hamilton/Alonso.

Or the current public spat between LdM and Alonso.

Or Alonso's words regarding Renault before he left that team.

Or Alonso's words last year accusing his engineers of being second rate...."We're racing Newey".

SV can go to any team he wants. We both know Alonso can't. That says it all.

No way RBR wants anything to do with Alonso and his history when they already have the most coveted driver on the grid.

Edited by Winter98, 06 August 2013 - 20:56.


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#652 Winter98

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 20:52

What you say makes sense.

This thread is “Alonso to Red Bull?”. Vettel opinion, according to some people here, seems to be an impediment for that matter. In this context, what I was trying to say is that if we have a scenario in which several drivers are equally (or almost equally) talented, the most logical thing is that any of those drivers will have problems being paired with any of the other ones.

In Alonso/Hamilton case, they have fewer problems, simply because they are driving inferior cars, so it´s always better fight against Vettel in equal machinery than in inferior machinery. In Vettel case it´s quite the opposite, so there are reasons for him not to want Alonso or Hamilton as teammates.

On the other hand, I’m sure that every single driver has his preferences related to “who do you want as teammate”, and most drivers probably would put Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel on the bottom of the list.

So I understand Vettel opinion, as I said previously, normal human reaction. Is this an obstacle for the “Alonso to Red Bull” topic? Yes, I think so, a serious one, although not the only one.


While you can make that argument, the fact is because of his age, Vettel is the most coveted driver on the grid. RBR has no need of Alonso, and FA's past history clearly shows that the risks are severe.

Edited by Winter98, 06 August 2013 - 21:03.


#653 EthanM

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 20:58

Alonso has a history of throwing his toys out of his pram when challenged. Whether you like it or not that's his history. Red Bull has 0 reason to employ Alonso, they have a team that works and so far is winning everything. What's the reason to even consider Alonso? To satisfy his crazy fans?

Alonso will see his Ferrari contract out. If he lets his ego run his mouth and goes into a head on collision with LdM he knows full well his only realistic alternative is Lotus. So my bet is after all the posturing Alonso will be a good boy and listen to uncle Luca and all this mess will be forgotten.

#654 Winter98

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 21:02

You really think Vettel would not be apprehensive about competing against Alonso as team mates considering the massive struggles he's had to beat him in superior cars? If you really believe that, you are not giving Vettels intelligence much credit.


If You really think Vettel would not be apprehensive about having a driver with Alonso's history of politicking and belittling him, as well as destabilizing teams when things don't go his way, then you are not giving Vettel's intelligence much credit.

#655 Winter98

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 21:04

Alonso has a history of throwing his toys out of his pram when challenged. Whether you like it or not that's his history. Red Bull has 0 reason to employ Alonso, they have a team that works and so far is winning everything. What's the reason to even consider Alonso? To satisfy his crazy fans?

Alonso will see his Ferrari contract out. If he lets his ego run his mouth and goes into a head on collision with LdM he knows full well his only realistic alternative is Lotus. So my bet is after all the posturing Alonso will be a good boy and listen to uncle Luca and all this mess will be forgotten.


^^ This. Well said Ethan.

#656 Radion

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 21:16

Alonso has a history of throwing his toys out of his pram when challenged. Whether you like it or not that's his history. Red Bull has 0 reason to employ Alonso, they have a team that works and so far is winning everything. What's the reason to even consider Alonso? To satisfy his crazy fans?

Alonso will see his Ferrari contract out. If he lets his ego run his mouth and goes into a head on collision with LdM he knows full well his only realistic alternative is Lotus. So my bet is after all the posturing Alonso will be a good boy and listen to uncle Luca and all this mess will be forgotten.

Well, there is a reson: Mercedes.
Merc has a strong pairing. RedBull can't afford 'wasting' the second seat. So there is definitely a reason to hire someone like alonso.
But then again: You have raikkonen availible, who is at least as fast as alonso and comes with less politics.

Conclusion: Alonso won't drive for RedBull as long as there are better options on the market for them.

#657 Risil

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 22:17

I can't believe this rumour has died already. Worst silly season ever.

#658 Winter98

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 23:40

I can't believe this rumour has died already. Worst silly season ever.


Realistically I think I had more chance of winning the lottery than of seeing FA go to RBR next year.

Edited by Winter98, 06 August 2013 - 23:41.


#659 apoka

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 05:20

I can't believe this rumour has died already. Worst silly season ever.

Yes, looks like it has died for now (see also http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109135 : When asked if Alonso was tempted to make a push for Red Bull's vacant seat, Briatore responded: "No, no temptation whatsoever." ).

The summer break started nicely with some interesting rumors, but seems to lose momentum (with another 2 weeks to go until the next race).


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#660 Antonov

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:17

Yes, looks like it has died for now (see also http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109135 : When asked if Alonso was tempted to make a push for Red Bull's vacant seat, Briatore responded: "No, no temptation whatsoever." ).

The summer break started nicely with some interesting rumors, but seems to lose momentum (with another 2 weeks to go until the next race).


almost three actually.

#661 currupipi

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 21:14

If You really think Vettel would not be apprehensive about having a driver with Alonso's history of politicking and belittling him, as well as destabilizing teams when things don't go his way, then you are not giving Vettel's intelligence much credit.



you keep using this word, could you please define what you mean by politicking

#662 keeppari

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:35

you keep using this word, could you please define what you mean by politicking


It's a considerate way of describing how politicians spend their time. Lying, cheating, manipulating and getting dragged into all sorts of scandals.

However, if you're actually good at it, very few people get a sniff of your antics. Alonso isn't quite up to the job.

#663 Winter98

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 13:46

you keep using this word, could you please define what you mean by politicking


On this forum, I believe the usual meaning is a planned course of off track action taken by a driver to accomplish a goal. Often that goal is to gain an advantage over a teammate, or rival, or to big themselves up.

So in Alonso's case, for instance, he has bigged himself up by belittling SV's achievements with his "We're racing Newey as well" comments and his "Samurai" comments. Also by complaining about the speed of his cars. Also by complaining that the team is favouring his teammate. Also by complaining that the team isn't 100% behind him.

As well with Alonso, there is spygate of course. And I think the "We're racing Newey as well" comments could also fit into the category of trying to gain an advantage over a rival.

You can look at keeppari's post, directly above, for another more succinct explanation.

Edited by Winter98, 08 August 2013 - 13:50.


#664 Afterburner

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:27

It's a considerate way of describing how politicians spend their time. Lying, cheating, manipulating and getting dragged into all sorts of scandals.

However, if you're actually good at it, very few people get a sniff of your antics. Alonso isn't quite up to the job.

You can't convict him just yet--he's only confirmed guilty of three of those. ;)

#665 JaredS

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:49

Alonso has a history of throwing his toys out of his pram when challenged. Whether you like it or not that's his history. Red Bull has 0 reason to employ Alonso, they have a team that works and so far is winning everything. What's the reason to even consider Alonso? To satisfy his crazy fans?

Alonso will see his Ferrari contract out. If he lets his ego run his mouth and goes into a head on collision with LdM he knows full well his only realistic alternative is Lotus. So my bet is after all the posturing Alonso will be a good boy and listen to uncle Luca and all this mess will be forgotten.


:up:

#666 currupipi

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 15:45

It's a considerate way of describing how politicians spend their time. Lying, cheating, manipulating and getting dragged into all sorts of scandals.

However, if you're actually good at it, very few people get a sniff of your antics. Alonso isn't quite up to the job.


so the complaint is that he is not a good politician, now i get it :rotfl:


#667 Winter98

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 15:53

so the complaint is that he is not a good politician, now i get it :rotfl:


Personally, I don't think FA is that bad at politicking.

His "We're racing Newey as well" comments certainly worked out well. A lot of people were tired of seeing SV winning everything, and it provided something his detractors could latch onto to not only take SV down a notch or two, but by default take their favourite driver up a notch or two.

I thought it was brilliant myself, the only downside being that RBR will never hire him to drive along side SV, so he gave up the possibility of driving for what is currently the best team in F1. That being said, with his past, RBR probably wouldn't have hired him in any case.

Edited by Winter98, 08 August 2013 - 15:55.


#668 PoleMan

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 23:18

Some high praise for Alonso and a potential move to Red Bull from a site that's normally one of his biggest critics:
http://www.planetf1....ed-Bull-Fighter

Can't really disagree with the logic (Or the Platitudes!), but I really hope Ferrari can sort their car this year and next, to allow Alonso and Massa to bring it to the Bulls, Mercs, Loti, etc. :up:

Let's cue the usual "Star Wars" bar scene of critics, haters and bitter fans of other drivers in 3...2... :lol:

"Faced with all these uncertainties, they have the opportunity of banking one absolute certainty. There is no better driver on the grid than Fernando Alonso. He has proven with Ferrari - especially last year - that he doesn't need the fastest car to win races. Investing in Fernando and creating an Alonso/Vettel line-up is the surest way of continuing the phenomenal success that the team have enjoyed over the last four years. Success is like a drug - the more you have, the more you want.

If Christian Horner is confident that he will be able to compete with the surge from Mercedes and its five technical directors next season then they will sign Raikkonen. If they are super confident they'll sign Ricciardo, but if they wanted to be rock solid certain that they've given themselves the best chance to retain the titles they will surely win again this year then they would go for Alonso."

Edited by PoleMan, 08 August 2013 - 23:25.


#669 ebc

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 23:30

There is no better driver on the grid than Fernando Alonso. He has proven with Ferrari - especially last year - that he doesn't need the fastest car to win races. Investing in Fernando and creating an Alonso/Vettel line-up is the surest way of continuing the phenomenal success that the team have enjoyed over the last four years. Success is like a drug - the more you have, the more you want.

If Christian Horner is confident that he will be able to compete with the surge from Mercedes and its five technical directors next season then they will sign Raikkonen. If they are super confident they'll sign Ricciardo, but if they wanted to be rock solid certain that they've given themselves the best chance to retain the titles they will surely win again this year then they would go for Alonso."[/i]


It is not a certainty at all, just his opinion. Alonso is one of the best but you could argue that Vettel and Hamilton are better. If they sign Alonso I think their chances of winning both titles would decrease.


#670 PoleMan

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 23:43

It is not a certainty at all, just his opinion. Alonso is one of the best but you could argue that Vettel and Hamilton are better. If they sign Alonso I think their chances of winning both titles would decrease.

:well: :well: :well: Where did anyone say it was a certainty? Couldn't have been more obvious that it was an opinion piece. In his opinion Alonso is the BEST DRIVER and would be the best choice for RB if they want to keep winning. Considering it's Andrew Davies writing that, that is high praise from one of Alonso's biggest critics.

In my opinion, I'd like for him to remain and win at Ferrari, alongside Kimi, but if Massa is resigned...then Felipe. :cool:

Edited by PoleMan, 08 August 2013 - 23:45.


#671 IAMG

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 00:15

:well: :well: :well: Where did anyone say it was a certainty? Couldn't have been more obvious that it was an opinion piece. In his opinion Alonso is the BEST DRIVER and would be the best choice for RB if they want to keep winning. Considering it's Andrew Davies writing that, that is high praise from one of Alonso's biggest critics.

In my opinion, I'd like for him to remain and win at Ferrari, alongside Kimi, but if Massa is resigned...then Felipe. :cool:


with the brawn boys posing a most formidable threat to rbr's dominance this year and years to come. rbr would be in trouble if they choose a second whipping boy(ricciardo) to act as rear gunner for their favorite

son. they most definitely need KR or FA. i would love to see sv exposed and i know FA would school him. KR would prove a most formidable threat also. actually i am surprised

DiResta is not being considered.


#672 discover23

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 00:49

I read today that RedBull confirmed that the talks between Garcia and Horner were about Alonso.. Not sure if this info was posted already.

#673 AustinF1

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 01:02

Alonso is one of the best but you could argue that Vettel and Hamilton are better.


There's not a lot to choose between those 3 imho, but that would be a pretty tough argument to make hold water.

#674 Winter98

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 01:10

It is not a certainty at all, just his opinion. Alonso is one of the best but you could argue that Vettel and Hamilton are better. If they sign Alonso I think their chances of winning both titles would decrease.


Indeed, if history has anything to teach us.

#675 SpaMaster

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:20

A site that's one of his his biggest critics? As if that gives them some credibility to their pieces? They are one of the worst outlets and tabloid-like. The article is as trash as anything else from there. Can't believe people would post an opinion-piece from there as if it is some authority.

#676 Watkins74

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 08:31

Indeed, if history has anything to teach us.

Like his two WDC's.

#677 Juggles

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:01

It is not a certainty at all, just his opinion. Alonso is one of the best but you could argue that Vettel and Hamilton are better. If they sign Alonso I think their chances of winning both titles would decrease.


Their chances of winning the WDC would go down, yes, but their chances of winning the WCC would surely go up?

Anyway, too much has happened between Vettel and Alonso in my opinion. If they were paired at Red Bull then the atmosphere would be aggressive from the very start. McLaren in 2007 is different because they didn't know Hamilton would be so good; Red Bull signing Alonso would be like Ron Dennis having a crystal ball at the start of 2007 and still pairing Hamilton and Alonso.

It's the same reason Vettel-Hamilton at Red Bull couldn't happen; the fallout would just have been so predictable.

#678 IAMG

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:00

Their chances of winning the WDC would go down, yes, but their chances of winning the WCC would surely go up?

Anyway, too much has happened between Vettel and Alonso in my opinion. If they were paired at Red Bull then the atmosphere would be aggressive from the very start. McLaren in 2007 is different because they didn't know Hamilton would be so good; Red Bull signing Alonso would be like Ron Dennis having a crystal ball at the start of 2007 and still pairing Hamilton and Alonso.

It's the same reason Vettel-Hamilton at Red Bull couldn't happen; the fallout would just have been so predictable.


yeah but don't u think alonso has matured from 2007. he would be going to a team with a 3 times world champion. while he would insist

on equality, the opportunity to be in a consistent race winner and to oppose SV would humble and excite him. why would there be a need for

him to become aggressive. he wants more titles and maybe just maybe he wants stiffer competition(especially SV in a Newey rocket).

but its SV who may not be able to contain himself when the inevitable would happen, so in that sense i see your point.

#679 revlec

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:01

It is not a certainty at all, just his opinion. Alonso is one of the best but you could argue that Vettel and Hamilton are better. If they sign Alonso I think their chances of winning both titles would decrease.


:up:





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#680 Fontainebleau

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:49

It is not a certainty at all, just his opinion. Alonso is one of the best but you could argue that Vettel and Hamilton are better. If they sign Alonso I think their chances of winning both titles would decrease.

Well, the important thing is what is the team directors' opinion, and since they all have approached Alonso in the last few years (ie after 2007) to make him an offer (and that includes Whitmarsh's comments on that respect) I'd say they tend to disagree with your views and agree with the one expressed by DAvies.

#681 SpaMaster

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:58

Well, the important thing is what is the team directors' opinion, and since they all have approached Alonso in the last few years (ie after 2007) to make him an offer (and that includes Whitmarsh's comments on that respect) I'd say they tend to disagree with your views and agree with the one expressed by DAvies.

Whitmarsh approached Alonso after 2007? BMW was the third best team in 2007 and they rejected Alonso precisely because of the Spygate saga. If Alonso is considered to be the best driver by team principal, Red Bull wouldn't want to stick with Vettel. I can't see Mercedes taking Alonso now either. If he is undoubtedly the best driver, these wouldn't be the case.

Edited by SpaMaster, 09 August 2013 - 10:59.


#682 mnmracer

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:00

Well, the important thing is what is the team directors' opinion, and since they all have approached Alonso in the last few years (ie after 2007) to make him an offer (and that includes Whitmarsh's comments on that respect) I'd say they tend to disagree with your views and agree with the one expressed by DAvies.

Vettel has also been approached by several team directors, so that's a non-argument.

#683 ebc

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:12

Well, the important thing is what is the team directors' opinion, and since they all have approached Alonso in the last few years (ie after 2007) to make him an offer (and that includes Whitmarsh's comments on that respect) I'd say they tend to disagree with your views and agree with the one expressed by DAvies.


They have approached him but they haven't signed him, and only RedBull have a top class driver in the other car which would be a problem when fighting for the WDC. It must be tempting to take on Alonso but I doubt they would go for it.

#684 Fontainebleau

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 13:09

Whitmarsh approached Alonso after 2007? BMW was the third best team in 2007 and they rejected Alonso precisely because of the Spygate saga. If Alonso is considered to be the best driver by team principal, Red Bull wouldn't want to stick with Vettel. I can't see Mercedes taking Alonso now either. If he is undoubtedly the best driver, these wouldn't be the case.

1.- No, Whitmarsh stated that losing Alonso was a "massive regret" and according to the article "it seems reuniting with a driver like Alonso cannot now be ruled out".
http://www.f1complet...view/13964/900/
http://www.topnews.i...egretquot-27141
I was also told that as Santander's sponsorship was running towards its end, McLaren was struggling to find any alternatives and, in an attempt to retain the bank they offered to hire Alonso back - very much to the bank's surprise, because their decision was to be made in light of the return their sponsorship was making, and not depending on which drivers were racing for the team (apart from the impact said drivers could have in the return of their sponsorship, and Hamilton was doing a good job there). But I have no quotes to back up such a story, so let's leave it as a rumour.

2.- Had BMW had any issues with Alonso's involvement in Spygate, they would have never started conversations with him. But they did, offering him a three-year pre-contract; Brawn approached him too, and in fact, as this article summarises, the key issue seems to have been Alonso's unwillingness to sign a contract for longer than one year, as he was already heading to Ferrari.
http://bleacherrepor...linked-with-bmw
"Fresh rumours have surfaced that Fernando Alonso, two-time world champion and Renault driver, has signed a three-year deal with BMW Sauber.
In recent weeks speculation has mounted as to where Alonso will be in 2009: it is believed that the Spaniard was seeking a one-year contract only, in order to leave himself a free agent for the 2010 season when Kimi Raikkonen's Ferrari contract expires."
"One other potential option for the 2005 and 2006 world champion is Honda, with team principal Ross Brawn having made no secret of the fact that he wishes to lure Alonso to his team. "
"It has also been mentioned that Alonso has been in talks with Red Bull Racing; this is unlikely, however, as Red Bull would be unlikely to offer Alonso a one-year contract"

3.- As for Brawn, he already made it clear that he'd love to have Alonso in his team several times.
http://www.telegraph...aris-grasp.html
"It is understood that team principal Ross Brawn, the man who guided Michael Schumacher to world titles at Benetton and Ferrari, and chief executive Nick Fry have made Alonso a name-your-price offer. "

Now, I am not saying that all these guys are making an offer to Alonso right now - I'd think that some of them are very happy with their drivers, and even if they like Alonso it may make no sense for them to have him now. But that is not the point I was refuting with my initial post; my post had been a reply to ebc's statement that a team's chance to win diminishes when they have Alonso because of issues such as 2007, and I was pointing out that given that all the current top directors had approached him after 2007 it seemed clear that they did not share his opinion.

Edit: just to address some of the other replies to my initial post, Vettel receiving offers from other teams has nothing to do with Alonso being wanted by teams despite anything that happened in 2007 (and if you read Whitmarsh's intervew above you may find some answers as to why they don't see 2007 as a big problem). And no, I am not saying that all of them are now making offers to Alonso, as explained above - only that the "nobody would want him because of past issues" tag is incorrect.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 09 August 2013 - 13:16.


#685 SpaMaster

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 13:50

^ Regretting is not necessarily close to hiring. I am sure he regrets the whole spygate saga, that has got nothing to do with wanting to hire Alonso again. This 'reuniting with Alonso cannot be ruled out' was just the writer's opinion, not Whitmarsh's quote.

Bleacherreport? 3 year contract with BMW? Never saw him drive for BMW. I remember in the wake of sygate scandal Thiessen categorically stated his team would not be interested in a driver like that.

I thought ebc's point was if you pair Alonso with Vettel, then the team's chances diminish, not by having Alonso only in the team. We don't need 2007 to suspect that way, it has always looked like that with Alonso.

#686 Fontainebleau

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 15:11

^ Regretting is not necessarily close to hiring. I am sure he regrets the whole spygate saga, that has got nothing to do with wanting to hire Alonso again. This 'reuniting with Alonso cannot be ruled out' was just the writer's opinion, not Whitmarsh's quote.

Bleacherreport? 3 year contract with BMW? Never saw him drive for BMW. I remember in the wake of sygate scandal Thiessen categorically stated his team would not be interested in a driver like that.

I thought ebc's point was if you pair Alonso with Vettel, then the team's chances diminish, not by having Alonso only in the team. We don't need 2007 to suspect that way, it has always looked like that with Alonso.

No; it is always how some people have wanted to look at it, but only because it suited their views. And no, you never saw him drive for BMW - as the article said, he wanted just a one-year contract, as he knew he was going to drive for Ferrari. Hence, they did not reach an agreement - but he was offered one, and that's the relevant point.

Don't you like bleachreport? Fine, here you have a few more:

http://www.f1technical.net/news/10419
http://sports.espn.g...o...&id=3634183

http://formula-one.s...s-alonso-talks/
F1: BMW Admits Alonso Talks
Spanish arm of German manufacturer confirms negotiations.

http://www.auto123.c...mp;artid=101060

http://www.auto123.c...so?artid=101709
"Wilder speculation, repeated in the authoritative French sports daily L'Équipe, is that Toro Rosso has thrown in a serious bid to sign the available Alonso next year.
"Of course I am interested (in Alonso), but so is everybody else," team co-owner Gerhard Berger said, admitting that his Faenza based team cannot compete with the financial incentives offered by its rivals.
Honda's Fry, meanwhile, advises Alonso to spurn BMW-Sauber's advances.
"Fernando found that McLaren is rigid, and BMW is even worse," he said."

http://www.f1fanatic...enault-in-2009/
"Recent rumours have linked him with BMW and Honda, and of course there remains a decent chance of him staying at Renault next year."

http://www.theguardi...torsports.sport (you'd love this one, it is from late 2007)
"Red Bull may have been a late entrant in the rush to secure the services of the twice world champion but the addition of Brawn's name to the mix makes such a partnership seem tenable. "

Just in case here you have Pino Allievi's announcement of the Ferrari deal that would prevent Alonso from accepting a long contract, dated December 2008 http://www.jamesalle...rrari-contract/

By the way, I would be very intrested in the quote you mentioned about Thiessen categorically stating he would not be interested in Alonso. It might help in trying to reconstruct the events till BMW decided to start negotiating with him in 2008.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 09 August 2013 - 15:45.


#687 SpaMaster

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:12

Is there a single direct quote from BMW on Alonso? Theissen for example? All I see is rumoured statements and one from the "Spanish" arm of BMW" (Of course, Spanish arm). I certainly remember Theissen specifically stating what I said. Sorry, I tried to find some links, but couldn't. Anyway, I have made myself clear on the original ebc's point. I appreciate all the efforts you have put in to look for so many old articles.

#688 crespo

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:36

Is there a single direct quote from BMW on Alonso? Theissen for example? All I see is rumoured statements and one from the "Spanish" arm of BMW" (Of course, Spanish arm). I certainly remember Theissen specifically stating what I said. Sorry, I tried to find some links, but couldn't. Anyway, I have made myself clear on the original ebc's point. I appreciate all the efforts you have put in to look for so many old articles.

You couldn't find anything because you made them up. We get it, you hate Alonso with a passion, now could you please leave this thread so the discussion can re-focus on the Alonso to RB rumors as opposed to why no team wants to sign Alonso, as you so vehemently want to keep "discussing"?

Personally, I don't think it'll happen, I think Alonso's fed up with what Ferrari have given him over four years and is starting to put his foot down instead of continuously backing the team whenever they start losing the development race (which has happened just about every year since he's been there). I don't consider myself a Tifoso, I'm an Alonso fan first, so I support his finally putting some pressure on the team, despite the backlash from the big boss.

Edited by crespo, 09 August 2013 - 16:40.


#689 HP

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:53

Is there a single direct quote from BMW on Alonso? Theissen for example? All I see is rumoured statements and one from the "Spanish" arm of BMW" (Of course, Spanish arm). I certainly remember Theissen specifically stating what I said. Sorry, I tried to find some links, but couldn't. Anyway, I have made myself clear on the original ebc's point. I appreciate all the efforts you have put in to look for so many old articles.

You probably refer to this, about BMW not interested in Alonso (searching Keywords Theissen and Alonso would have brought up this link)

http://www.motorspor...s_07120508.html

It's in German.

When Theissen was asked if his team was interested in signing Alonso, he said (translated): "Not for a second". And in the next question, when asked why not, since Alonso is a 2 times WDC Theissen said: "We are convinced that, this (hiring Alonso) wouldn't improve their situation as a team"

Edited by HP, 09 August 2013 - 16:55.


#690 HP

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:54

You couldn't find anything because you made them up.

He didn't made them up, see previous post.


#691 JSDSKI

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:57

The irony in all of this is that if R. Dennis and McLaren had maintained their original decision to have Alonso as a clear number one (as they planned when signing him and before Hamilton's arrival) then McLaren would have had at least three and maybe four WCC's and Alonso would have retired with a like number of WDC's and passed the baton onto a well trained and finely tuned Hamilton. McLaren would still be one of the top two or three teams.

But then we'd never have seen the clashes between FA and LH or SV and MW. That's been epic and much more entertaining than two or three years of McLaren domination. That would be as boring as the Red Bull domination has been. F1 thrives on conflict and competition.




#692 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 17:58

He didn't made them up, see previous post.


SpaMaster had said, "they rejected Alonso precisely because of the Spygate saga". There is nothing little in the Theissen quote to support that.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 09 August 2013 - 18:56.


#693 Fontainebleau

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 21:30

Is there a single direct quote from BMW on Alonso? Theissen for example? All I see is rumoured statements and one from the "Spanish" arm of BMW" (Of course, Spanish arm). I certainly remember Theissen specifically stating what I said. Sorry, I tried to find some links, but couldn't. Anyway, I have made myself clear on the original ebc's point. I appreciate all the efforts you have put in to look for so many old articles.

The Spanish arm of BMW is better than no quotes from BMW, don't you think?

Anyway, there are plenty of reports about Thiessen accepting their flirting with Alonso; for example, in Autosport
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/70606
"BMW Sauber say they are ready to wait for former world champion Fernando Alonso to make his mind up about where he wants to drive next year - after reminding the Spaniard that they are the fastest team in Formula One with a seat still available."
"When asked by autosport.com if he was interested in Alonso in spite of what happened at McLaren, Theissen said: "I am interested in fast drivers generally, but I would prefer not to comment now on individual drivers because we are evaluating it and I would prefer to talk to you when we have a decision.""

http://www.crash.net...s_for_2009.html
"BMW-Sauber has confirmed that it is in talks with former double Formula 1 World Champion Fernando Alonso about a potential drive at the team next year."
“We are the strongest team that still has a seat open for 2009, but we have not made any decisions yet. We are always interested in fast drivers.”


This is a summary in Autoracing.com:
"09/15/08 (GMM) A spokesman for the Spanish arm of the German manufacturer BMW has admitted that Fernando Alonso is in talks to switch to the BMW-Sauber F1 team in 2009.
Figures in the Monza paddock over the weekend were careful to play down or sidestep the raging speculation about the Spaniard's future.
But Gigi Corbetta, communication director for BMW Spain, told Spanish radio that talks are taking place.
"And the news of the renewal of Raikkonen (at Ferrari) has accelerated the process," Corbetta is quoted as saying by the Spanish newspaper Marca.
"Now it is necessary to wait until the end of the season."
27-year-old Alonso, meanwhile, confirmed that his future is not due to be clarified before the Singapore grand prix in two weeks.

09/14/08 BMW Motorsport director Mario Theissen said that they are waiting on Fernando Alonso for the 2009 season. These are his comments.
"There are several people and a few teams who have to make a decision – it is just not necessarily a joint decision,"
"We are still evaluating the situation and it is apparent we are the strongest team now which has an open seat for next year, so we will see what happens."
Theissen expressed that the Raikkonen contract news had very little impact on his decision, "one piece in a big jigsaw, nothing more.""

There are plenty of interviews with Spanish newspapers where Thiessen (and Kubica) hints at Alonso heading to BMW. But to be brutally honest, I'd rather not waste time in digging them up if they are going to be dismissed because they are "Spanish".

In any case I think that we have already listed more than enough evidence that Alonso and BMW were in talks in 2008 regarding a seat in 2009, so I'll leave it here.


#694 SpaMaster

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 21:57

Okay, if you are going to insist, there is still no quote from Thiessen or any BMW F1 decision-makers on wanting Alonso. The only relevant quote from the German site that HP quoted translates Thiessen's words as Alonso won't make their team better. Everything else is writers saying BMW that and this and those are rumours. Yes, I give no credence to Spanish arm of anything when it comes to Alonso. Do you think it is absolutely not possible that a team may not have liked Alonso in light of his blackmailing of his former team? A lesser driver would have been out of F1 by now. Alonso's talent have kept him in F1 - albeit in the wilderness for a few years before returning to a top team.

Edited by SpaMaster, 09 August 2013 - 21:57.


#695 scheivlak

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 21:59

Anyway, there are plenty of reports about Thiessen accepting their flirting with Alonso; for example, in Autosport
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/70606
"BMW Sauber say they are ready to wait for former world champion Fernando Alonso to make his mind up about where he wants to drive next year - after reminding the Spaniard that they are the fastest team in Formula One with a seat still available."
"When asked by autosport.com if he was interested in Alonso in spite of what happened at McLaren, Theissen said: "I am interested in fast drivers generally, but I would prefer not to comment now on individual drivers because we are evaluating it and I would prefer to talk to you when we have a decision.""


Now you mention that report one might quote another snippet as well from that same Autosport story: "BMW motorsport director Mario Theissen had been previously thought to be reluctant to sign Alonso in the wake of the problems he endured at McLaren last year, but has hinted that the double world champion is now a factor in their driver plans for 2009."

So it seems there's some truth in both sides of this ongoing discussion. BMW firmly closed the door to Alonso at the end of the 2007 season with all the spygate brouhaha in mind - see also that early quote that HP found.

Mid-2008 BMW began to look -very cautiously- for alternatives in case of Heidfeld's Q problems continuing, see e.g. http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/70377

Then a few things happened at once - some pretty good performances form Nick, Ferrari renewing Kimi's contract and Fernando finding more speed, confidence and better results with Renault. Alonso on september 28, 2008: "But as I have always said Renault will be my first priority because I feel at home in this team." http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/70982

September 30, 2008: "Renault trust Alonso will stay on" http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/71032

October 9, 2008: "Alonso says BMW was never a possibility" http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/71231 "It was never a serious approach because for them they were quite happy with their drivers and didn't want to change," said Alonso when asked about his talks with BMW by autosport.com.
"For me, it was not time to talk because I preferred to wait until the end of the season and concentrate on driving for Renault, which is my job this year. It was not time to make a decision. It was never a possibility for me or for them."
BMW Sauber team principal Mario Theissen declined to talk about the reasons behind the team's talks with Alonso coming to a close, but said that Heidfeld's improved form in the last three races was the deciding factor in the announcement rather than Alonso turning the team down.
"We had discussions with several drivers in the course of the evaluation process, but I won't name them," said Theissen.
"Singapore was a strong race weekend for Nick and we had originally postponed the deadline because of this - we wanted to see if he could come back to normal form. He's had two or three strong weekends now and we felt confident after Singapore that this is a performance we can rely on for next year."


Net result: everybody stayed where they were for the moment.

Edited by scheivlak, 09 August 2013 - 22:01.


#696 superdelphinus

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 23:29

Christ I'd love to see alonso replacing rosberg next season

#697 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:48

The irony in all of this is that if R. Dennis and McLaren had maintained their original decision to have Alonso as a clear number one (as they planned when signing him and before Hamilton's arrival) then McLaren would have had at least three and maybe four WCC's and Alonso would have retired with a like number of WDC's and passed the baton onto a well trained and finely tuned Hamilton. McLaren would still be one of the top two or three teams.

But then we'd never have seen the clashes between FA and LH or SV and MW. That's been epic and much more entertaining than two or three years of McLaren domination. That would be as boring as the Red Bull domination has been. F1 thrives on conflict and competition.

:up:

#698 revlec

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:34

The irony in all of this is that if R. Dennis and McLaren had maintained their original decision to have Alonso as a clear number one (as they planned when signing him and before Hamilton's arrival) then McLaren would have had at least three and maybe four WCC's and Alonso would have retired with a like number of WDC's and passed the baton onto a well trained and finely tuned Hamilton. McLaren would still be one of the top two or three teams.


:drunk:
You honestly think that Hamilton would have been unable to win the 2007 WDC with more support from Alonso?(Raikkonen won his 2007 WDC thanks to the support he received from Massa).

In 2010(HAM and VET received ZERO support from their team mate) if not for some reliability HAM could have won that WDC too(please don't bring me up HAM's mistakes because Alonso and Vettel have made more that year).

And last year(2012) we saw what happend on many occasions when he was leading a race.
_
Only in your head(and in those of some "pundits"[the same who predicted HAM would finish the year without a win]) Alonso is head and shoulders better than Vettel and Hamilton. I think the exact opposite, and Vettel has nothing to fear.

Edited by revlec, 10 August 2013 - 08:46.


#699 DrF

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:56

I seriously doubt we'll see Alonso in a Red Bull until Seb leaves.

If you thought the fireworks at Macca in 2007 were bad, imagine the friction if Alonso joined?

He's better off staying where he is and waiting to see what Allison can do.

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#700 Radion

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:56

The irony in all of this is that if R. Dennis and McLaren had maintained their original decision to have Alonso as a clear number one (as they planned when signing him and before Hamilton's arrival) then McLaren would have had at least three and maybe four WCC's and Alonso would have retired with a like number of WDC's and passed the baton onto a well trained and finely tuned Hamilton. McLaren would still be one of the top two or three teams.

But then we'd never have seen the clashes between FA and LH or SV and MW. That's been epic and much more entertaining than two or three years of McLaren domination. That would be as boring as the Red Bull domination has been. F1 thrives on conflict and competition.

So when the rookie matches the nr.1 driver, they should have said to lewis: 'You know what, you might be as fast as alonso and on some occasion even faster, but we forbid you to be faster than him because he's nr1.!' ?!

Yeah right... :rolleyes: