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Alonso to Red Bull ?


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#751 Winter98

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 16:25

IMO Horner should ditch Seb now if he won't take Alonso as a team mate and take FA and Kimi for next year. Because simply on the balance of probabilities Seb will not win too many more WDC's for Red Bull,


What is the formula for calculating this probability?

Jimi, I seriously think you should get in touch with an F1 team, they will pay you a lot of money to show them.

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#752 JimiKart

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 16:26

Four posts with a common denominator, nobody wants FA to drive the same car as Seb... how is FA going to beat Seb you ask, you know it's not with with politics, that's only an excuse to to keep Fred out... Seb knows as do all of you, if Fernando drives the same car - even though Seb is so well entrenched in the team, Seb will lose, there's no other explanation forthcoming.

#753 HP

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 16:35

What is the formula for calculating this probability?

Jimi, I seriously think you should get in touch with an F1 team, they will pay you a lot of money to show them.

Even without knowing his formula, I know I could put up at least counter formula. So that will be fun to debate.


#754 HP

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 16:45

IMO Horner should ditch Seb now if he won't take Alonso as a team mate and take FA and Kimi for next year. Because simply on the balance of probabilities Seb will not win too many more WDC's for Red Bull, Horner needs to look to the future and he also needs to measure the car against someone other than Seb, maybe it's even quicker than we think, maybe Seb should have wrapped up the last 3 years well before he did and not have to have relied on lady luck in 2 out of 3 to win.



Four posts with a common denominator, nobody wants FA to drive the same car as Seb... how is FA going to beat Seb you ask, you know it's not with with politics, that's only an excuse to to keep Fred out... Seb knows as do all of you, if Fernando drives the same car - even though Seb is so well entrenched in the team, Seb will lose, there's no other explanation forthcoming.

And what is it what you want? Please make some sense.

Apparently you don't want Vettel and Alonso in the same team, when you suggest that RBR ditch Vettel for Alonso and Kimi...

#755 ebc

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 16:55

Four posts with a common denominator, nobody wants FA to drive the same car as Seb... how is FA going to beat Seb you ask, you know it's not with with politics, that's only an excuse to to keep Fred out... Seb knows as do all of you, if Fernando drives the same car - even though Seb is so well entrenched in the team, Seb will lose, there's no other explanation forthcoming.


None of us think Seb would lose we just don't like Alonso and prefer Kimi

Alonso has been beaten by 3 different team mates over a season in his career, Vettel would make it 4.

Seb on the other hand has never been beaten over a season.

Vettel has nothing to fear in facing the Spaniard, Alonso is no push over but he has struggled with Trulli and Hamiltons speed and I think it would be the same with Vettel.

Alonso is a trouble maker and having him in the team would hurt RedBull just like it did with Mclaren.

#756 velgajski1

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 17:30

IMO Horner should ditch Seb now if he won't take Alonso as a team mate and take FA and Kimi for next year. Because simply on the balance of probabilities Seb will not win too many more WDC's for Red Bull, Horner needs to look to the future and he also needs to measure the car against someone other than Seb, maybe it's even quicker than we think, maybe Seb should have wrapped up the last 3 years well before he did and not have to have relied on lady luck in 2 out of 3 to win.


Thats one of the dumbest proposals I ever read on this forum :)

Seb has joined an exclusive club made by Schumacher and Fangio (3 titles in a row). Not only that, he is obviously youngest driver to achieve this. Why, oh why would RBR change him for Kimi and Alonso who are probably not in the same league as Vettel and are both quite old and past their prime?

In all honesty, I don't think Ferrari is the problem. Alonso is just not as good as some of his fans make him to be - it is as simple as that.

Edited by velgajski1, 11 August 2013 - 17:32.


#757 JimiKart

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 17:40

None of us think Seb would lose we just don't like Alonso and prefer Kimi

Alonso has been beaten by 3 different team mates over a season in his career, Vettel would make it 4.

Seb on the other hand has never been beaten over a season.

Vettel has nothing to fear in facing the Spaniard, Alonso is no push over but he has struggled with Trulli and Hamiltons speed and I think it would be the same with Vettel.

Alonso is a trouble maker and having him in the team would hurt RedBull just like it did with Mclaren.


Ahhh... I'd love to see Alonso at RB with Seb, can we start with the next race? I think what bothers people is it`s clear that FA would love to go to RB tomorrow to race along side Seb, but Seb has already said he doesn't want to race Alonso because of `politics`(as if that has anything to do with driving). Everyone else is up in arms about it and even though many reasons are given why RB shouldn't consider Fernando, it's telling the only one missing is Seb not fairing well... then there's always the worry that the "get Fernando out of my way" cry's might start or the classic `I want Fernando`s wing`demands may happen and again Seb may be cast in a bad light etc etc etc.

Too bad for Fernando and lucky for Seb fans, I don`t think a deal will be done.



#758 JimiKart

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 17:45

Thats one of the dumbest proposals I ever read on this forum :)

Seb has joined an exclusive club made by Schumacher and Fangio (3 titles in a row). Not only that, he is obviously youngest driver to achieve this. Why, oh why would RBR change him for Kimi and Alonso who are probably not in the same league as Vettel and are both quite old and past their prime?

In all honesty, I don't think Ferrari is the problem. Alonso is just not as good as some of his fans make him to be - it is as simple as that.


So to clairfy; you think it`s dumb for a team to find out whether or not they are getting the maximum out of their car. AND you think Webbo (with all due respect) is a standard to measure by.


#759 yr

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 17:55

Four posts with a common denominator, nobody wants FA to drive the same car as Seb... how is FA going to beat Seb you ask, you know it's not with with politics, that's only an excuse to to keep Fred out... Seb knows as do all of you, if Fernando drives the same car - even though Seb is so well entrenched in the team, Seb will lose, there's no other explanation forthcoming.


Why would Seb, as well as "we all" know he would lose to FA if they were teammates? If I remember correctly, FA lost against ROOKIE Hamilton in equal cars, no? What the hell makes you think he would beat Vettel in Vettels own ground now that Vettel is in his prime? I would say it would be extremely unlikely that Alonso would be the one who ends up with most points if he and Vettel were in RB next year.

Edited by yr, 11 August 2013 - 17:57.


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#760 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:06

And what is it what you want? Please make some sense.

Apparently you don't want Vettel and Alonso in the same team, when you suggest that RBR ditch Vettel for Alonso and Kimi...

:rotfl: The fear has inadvertantly come out.

#761 yr

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:07

1. Ferrari are more than happy with FA's driving and know 100% he's got more than the maximum from the car...


There´s no way to stretch imagination enough to be so delulded that somebody could actually think Alonso had done that.



#762 JimiKart

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:08

Why would Seb, as well as "we all" know he would lose to FA if they were teammates? If I remember correctly, FA lost against ROOKIE Hamilton in equal cars, no? What the hell makes you think he would beat Vettel in Vettels own ground now that Vettel is in his prime? I would say it would be extremely unlikely that Alonso would be the one who ends up with most points if he and Vettel were in RB next year.


I think Alonso is not only a better driver but one who can handle pressure to drive a flawless season better, given a car that unlike today`s Ferrari can qualify up front, FA should come out on top - I`d even go as far as saying if FA went to RB tomorrow with all his WDC points he would probably lose to Vettel this year, but if the team don`t treat him like they do Webbo, next year on even terms Seb loses.

About Hammy and 2007, I`m over it and I`m waiting for the memoirs of both Hamilton and Alonso in 10 years to learn the truth.

#763 JimiKart

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:13

And what is it what you want? Please make some sense.

Apparently you don't want Vettel and Alonso in the same team, when you suggest that RBR ditch Vettel for Alonso and Kimi...



Synopsis of my earlier post to clarify for people having trouble with the way it was worded;

My earlier post clearly says to put them (Seb and Fred) together in the same team, it clearly says that if Seb says no, ditch him and run kimi and fred

#764 yr

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:19

About Hammy and 2007, I`m over it and I`m waiting for the memoirs of both Hamilton and Alonso in 10 years to learn the truth.


Yeah, I´ll bet you are waiting some sensational news that would explain why rookie Hamilton beat double WDC Fernando, right? It cant be possible that the rookie was just a bit better that year? Sorry mate, get over it, Alonso isnt God. He lost to a rookie and he would most likely lose to Vettel next year if he should move there, just like Vettel would propably lose to him next year if he moved to Ferrari.

Drivers like Kimi, Fernando, Sebastian and Lewis can all do "wonders" in car, none of them is head and shoulders above the other three.

#765 JimiKart

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:19

There´s no way to stretch imagination enough to be so delulded that somebody could actually think Alonso had done that.


Then that needs to be explained to every one in formula 1, all the team principals, engineers, technicians in the factories, everyone, because it`s the prevailing view among them. Wow, you better start informing people now - there`s a lot of minds to change with your new info...

edit, wasn`t it last year that team principal voted Alonso as the best driver despite the fact that Seb won the title.

Edited by JimiKart, 11 August 2013 - 18:24.


#766 Konsta

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:24

I think Alonso is not only a better driver but one who can handle pressure to drive a flawless season better, given a car that unlike today`s Ferrari can qualify up front, FA should come out on top - I`d even go as far as saying if FA went to RB tomorrow with all his WDC points he would probably lose to Vettel this year, but if the team don`t treat him like they do Webbo, next year on even terms Seb loses.

About Hammy and 2007, I`m over it and I`m waiting for the memoirs of both Hamilton and Alonso in 10 years to learn the truth.

Just like in 2010 when FA (with a lot of help from his team) was able to lose the championship AND whine about Petrov and then last season showing his class with his 'request for clarification'. Talk about actions under pressure.

#767 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:36

I think Alonso is not only a better driver but one who can handle pressure to drive a flawless season better, given a car that unlike today`s Ferrari can qualify up front, FA should come out on top - I`d even go as far as saying if FA went to RB tomorrow with all his WDC points he would probably lose to Vettel this year, but if the team don`t treat him like they do Webbo, next year on even terms Seb loses.

About Hammy and 2007, I`m over it and I`m waiting for the memoirs of both Hamilton and Alonso in 10 years to learn the truth.

The reality is he went to McLaren as a two-time WDC and got displaced from the team by a rookie. Even if you allege everyone in McLaren was conspiring against Alonso, you have to wonder why it came to that in the first place. In a team that was focused on him from the first race, a situation arose where an unproved rookie shook the foundation and kicked him out of the team altogether. This is definitely suggesting against Alonso going to Vettel's team and beating him comfortably.

#768 JimiKart

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:41

One would think that Seb would accept Alonso as a team mate willingly... With the prevailing view being `regardless of how many crowns he gets, until he leaves home like Hammy and Fred and challenges with another car he`s not been measured against the best on equal terms`. there`s the need find out if this is true before it`s too late.

This point of view is now in danger of being cast in stone - if Seb wins again this year and in next years car (an all new design) he should end up losing, then he better have beat his team mate and that team mate better be a very good standard to measure against, or the 4 year run will be carved in stone as the `Newey Era`and Seb will be a one-hit-wonder no matter how many crowns he has.

#769 JimiKart

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:47

The reality is he went to McLaren as a two-time WDC and got displaced from the team by a rookie. Even if you allege everyone in McLaren was conspiring against Alonso, you have to wonder why it came to that in the first place. In a team that was focused on him from the first race, a situation arose where an unproved rookie shook the foundation and kicked him out of the team altogether. This is definitely suggesting against Alonso going to Vettel's team and beating him comfortably.


I understand Alonso was beaten by a rookie, it`s just that doesn't really mean much as the `rookie`was Lewis Hamilton (in partnership with Ron Dennis, most of the team plus Daddy and company and god knows who else), apparently most of the F1 world in the know is of the same opinion, you should consider looking into why that is and rethink the importance you associate with the term `beaten by a rookie`

#770 yr

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:50

Then that needs to be explained to every one in formula 1, all the team principals, engineers, technicians in the factories, everyone, because it`s the prevailing view among them. Wow, you better start informing people now - there`s a lot of minds to change with your new info...

edit, wasn`t it last year that team principal voted Alonso as the best driver despite the fact that Seb won the title.


Everyone? Where did you get his? I have read some praising comments about Alonso from team principals, engineers etc, but then again, so have i read praising statements about Kimi, Sebastian and Lewis by same people too.

BTW:

AMuS ratings after 10 races :

Vettel 84
Hamilton 81
Alonso 79
Raikkonen 76
Rosberg 73
Webber 70
Hulkenberg 69
Button 66
Massa 63




#771 Buttoneer

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 18:51

Bored now.

You're discussing everyone anyway, so continue here please; http://forums.autosp...howtopic=187535