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Alonso to Red Bull ?


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#101 st99

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 18:44

Obviously. Alonso hasn't exactly given Vettel any reason to like him has he? In fact, he has gone out of his way to make sure he gives no credit or respect to Vettel.


Exactly and I think Vettel is starting to get tired of hearing Alonso constantly downplaying his achievements.
I doubt Red Bull would even think about pairing two top-drivers that don't get along, if people were already doubting the Vettel-Raikkonen pairing because two nº1 drivers in one team wouldn't work and they are friends, then this is would be insane.

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#102 Kingshark

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 18:50

No no no no no no no no no Alonso will ruin Red Bull like he ruined Ferrari and McLaren. Most overrated driver on the grid.

Why? Scared? :lol:

You seem so confident that Vettel would beat Alonso in the same car, so why are you now crying and begging for them not to be teammates? :clap:

Alonso didn't ruin either teams. Ferrari have been ruined themselves since 2009. Mclaren ruined themselves with spygate.

#103 Timstr11

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 18:52

Mateschitz is going to say 'NO'.

#104 pRy

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 18:55

I suppose it's possible the talks aren't directly about 2014 but perhaps 2015. Maybe Alonso wants to secure his next seat early in the game of F1 musical chairs.

Or it could just be Bernie.

#105 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 18:56

He didn't mince his words either. Pretty much came straight out and said he doesn't get along with Alonso and would not want to be in the same team as him. Brought Kimi's name up without prompting which was also interesting.

So that rules out Alonso at Redbull, unless Vettel decides to move to Ferrari. Can't see that happening.

I got the impression he just didnt want to say that he considers Alonso the better driver.

#106 Coral

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 18:58

I really, really want this to happen. Sadly, Ferrari are nowhere at the moment and Alonso's talents are being wasted. Vettel and Alonso in the same team sounds mouth-watering...IMO Vettel has had it too easy at Red Bull over the past few years and I would like to see him with a team-mate who would really challenge him. Webber is not a bad driver but let's face it, he's no Alonso. Vettel and Alonso are not exactly the best of friends either and I reckon sparks would really fly between them. Bring it on! :D

#107 Burai

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 18:58

Alonso puts pressure on Ferrari to get their act together (as if they needed reminding). Red Bull puts pressure on Raikkonen to accept their offer. So far there doesn't seem to be much more to this story.


I'd be inclined to agree but this whole situation reminds me of the time Jenson Button and his managers went for a factory visit to Woking at the end of 2009 with the intention of bluffing Mercedes into raising his retainer and for Raikkonen to drop his wage demands for McLaren.

A couple of hours later, Button's signed for McLaren, Kimi's got nowhere to go and Michael Schumacher's coming out of retirement.

DARE TO DREAM!

#108 fabr68

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 18:59

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/23484208

Ferrari team boss Stefano Domenicali said: "First of all we have a contract with him [Alonso] and for sure everyone knows about it.

"Fernando is an asset for the team. We need him to work very closely with everyone at this difficult moment in the season."

Ferrari insist Alonso has a cast-iron contract until the end of 2016, with no get-out clauses of any kind, and say he has made no contact with Red Bull.

They believe the claims that Alonso has approached Red Bull are mischief-making by their rivals aimed at destabilising the Italian team at a crucial moment in the championship.

Alonso's manager Luis Garcia Abad told BBC Sport there had been "no discussions" with Red Bull.

He said a meeting between himself and Horner on Friday at the Hungarian Grand Prix was about Red Bull junior driver Carlos Sainz, who is also represented by Abad.



#109 pRy

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:00

I got the impression he just didnt want to say that he considers Alonso the better driver.


Wasn't that. Vettel won't think that either. In Vettel's head he is the best driver. I think it's purely that he doesn't get on with him.

#110 mardmarium

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:04

I think Vettel would prefer Kimi over Alonso, but not because their driving capacity but for their off-track behaviour.
He knows that if Alonso ends up in Red Bull the relationship would be like the one with Webber now or even worse and it's obvious that he's tired of it and knows that with Kimi the relationship outside the track would be far easier.


Every team has two drivers who apart from being teammates are rivals. It’s not about being good friends or about “I don´t like your off track behavior”, the team should decide what is the best choice, analyzing objective facts, not personal relationships between drivers.

In any case I seriously doubt that Vettel doesn´t want Alonso as teammate due to “off track behavior”, that would be too childish in my opinion; after all nothing dramatic has happened between them. Vettel has an established position in his team and he probably thinks that Alonso could threaten that position more seriously than other drivers, which is a normal human reaction. Vettel should probably have been more cautious in this aspect, but as I said, he is human after all.


#111 SamH123

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:08

If Alonso is really keen for this I can't help but feel there is a bit of a lack of foresight (if he wants to move for a stronger car)

Next year is the start of a whole new car spec with all the top teams starting from a level playing field.
If Alonso moves to RB, and say Hulkenberg moves to Ferrari, who's to say Ferrari don't get their car right and Hulkenberg doesn't streak to a world championship? Alonso would look stupid

Vettel vs. Alonso would be huge/awesome though, it would settle a lot of scores

#112 werks prototype

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:09

I got the impression he just didnt want to say that he considers Alonso the better driver.




Perhaps Vettel, like many, just thinks that Raikkonen possesses greater race craft than Alonso and Hamilton greater speed than Alonso.





#113 RedOne

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:09

I got the impression he just didnt want to say that he considers Alonso the better driver.


I got the same impression.

#114 wj_gibson

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:09

It might be a whole new car spec for 2014, but bear in mind that the last significant rules "re-sets" (1998 and 2009) saw Newey-designed vehicles rise to the top very quickly.

#115 2ms

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:10

Look at things from Red Bull's perspective. Santander Ferrari has basically been a failure. Meanwhile, Kimi's been the biggest sensation in F1. They need someone who can bring the points home and get podiums every weekend. There's no one who does that like Kimi except Vettel. Alonso is fast but he has a lot of shunts and off weekends.

#116 Nemo1965

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:11

Vettel vs. Alonso would be huge/awesome though, it would settle a lot of scores


Agreed. I would love it. The idea is even better than when I heard that Button was going to McLaren.


#117 st99

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:12

Every team has two drivers who apart from being teammates are rivals. It’s not about being good friends or about “I don´t like your off track behavior”, the team should decide what is the best choice, analyzing objective facts, not personal relationships between drivers.

In any case I seriously doubt that Vettel doesn´t want Alonso as teammate due to “off track behavior”, that would be too childish in my opinion; after all nothing dramatic has happened between them. Vettel has an established position in his team and he probably thinks that Alonso could threaten that position more seriously than other drivers, which is a normal human reaction. Vettel should probably have been more cautious in this aspect, but as I said, he is human after all.


I'm not saying that Vettel wouldn't want Alonso as teammate, I'm giving the reason I think why Vettel would prefer Raikkonen over Alonso.

#118 fabr68

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:12

Vettel is very smart for not wanting Alonso alongside him. Specially for his on-track behavior (i.e. racing skills)

He would rather get a Massa beaten ex-teammate.

No wonder he did not want Hamilton either.

#119 superdelphinus

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:13

How on earth has Kimi been the 'biggest sensation' in f1?

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#120 panzani

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:13

Alonso is not — and will never be — a Team player. That means his place is obviously Fehahi. Neither is Vettel, as he already proved dangerously overtaking Webber against his Team orders. So both are exactly were both perfectly fit. In the very unlikely event this happens to happen all other Teams will spark the most expensive Champaign bottles ever sold or drunk!

Besides, as a corollary, RBR won't fit Kimi as well, for the very same opposite reasons...

#121 Radion

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:15

Vettel is very smart for not wanting Alonso alongside him. Specially for his on-track behavior (i.e. racing skills)

He would rather get a Massa beaten ex-teammate.

No wonder he did not want Hamilton either.

I don't think vettel fears somebody that got beaten by a rookie either.;)

#122 fabr68

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:18

I don't think vettel fears somebody that got beaten by a rookie either.;)


I think he does fear him. He already said he prefers a driver beaten by Massa. :lol:

#123 TFLB

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:19

If Alonso is really keen for this I can't help but feel there is a bit of a lack of foresight (if he wants to move for a stronger car)

Next year is the start of a whole new car spec with all the top teams starting from a level playing field.
If Alonso moves to RB, and say Hulkenberg moves to Ferrari, who's to say Ferrari don't get their car right and Hulkenberg doesn't streak to a world championship? Alonso would look stupid

Vettel vs. Alonso would be huge/awesome though, it would settle a lot of scores

One flaw in your reasoning - Hulkenberg would never streak to a world championship because he is nowhere near good enough.

#124 2ms

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:21

Alonso get beaten by Trulli who got beaten by Kovalainen. Imagine how upset golden boy would be if Trulli's managers came to RBR to express interesting in Trulli taking the seat. Or even exponentially worse: Imagine how upset golden boy would be if Kovalainen's managers came to RBR to express interesting in Kovalainen taking the seat!

Edited by 2ms, 28 July 2013 - 19:23.


#125 sopa

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:21

People are seriously discussing this move?

#126 PNSD

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:22

Other flaw is of course Adrian Newey. Last time we got new regs he produced the RB5, the car that all of Vettels titles are essentially built around.

#127 fabr68

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:25

Alonso get beaten by Trulli who got beaten by Kovalainen. Imagine how upset golden boy would be if Trulli's managers came to RBR to express interesting in Trulli taking the seat. Or even exponentially worse: Imagine how upset golden boy would be if Kovalainen's managers came to RBR to express interesting in Kovalainen taking the seat!


Still, Vettel already said he prefers Raikkonen (i.e. fears Alonso as his teammate)

#128 Radion

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:26

Still, Vettel already said he prefers Raikkonen (i.e. fears Alonso as his teammate)

Stop this BS.


#129 Cool Beans

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:28

Alonso sold himself to Santander. He's gonna drive that Ferrari whether he likes it or not.

#130 mattferg

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:29

Why? Scared? :lol:

You seem so confident that Vettel would beat Alonso in the same car, so why are you now crying and begging for them not to be teammates? :clap:

Alonso didn't ruin either teams. Ferrari have been ruined themselves since 2009. Mclaren ruined themselves with spygate.


Only thing I'm scared about is Alonso having to blackmail the team, risking the WDC just because he can't take Vettel beating him, and then eventually losing it to Mercedes just because Alonso's a bad loser.

#131 2ms

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:30

Still, Vettel already said he prefers Raikkonen (i.e. fears Alonso as his teammate)


Nah, Alonso's been a pain in the ass to every team he's driven for. He's a prima donna. Nobody want that in a team. Ferrari puts up with it because he came with Santander. Red Bull don't need Santander.

#132 DaddyCool

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:30

Seems to me that soon the "every driver wants to drive for Ferrari" mantra will be changed to another team :)

#133 scheivlak

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:31

Still, Vettel already said he prefers Raikkonen (i.e. fears Alonso as his teammate)

Now that's some jumping at conclusions :D

It was clear from the BBC interview that Seb's main reason for preferring Kimi was not because he fears Alonso more, but that having Kimi as a teammate means that he has a good and fair teammate which whom he will have a good relationship.

#134 SpaMaster

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:33

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/23484208

:lol: This is riling up Ferrrari. When do you hear a driver having a contract with a team for the next three years being rumoured to be moving to another team? Domenicalli saying things like Alonso should work with the engineers and the team during this difficult time (as opposed to putting feelers out at the enemy camp). Irrespective of whether the news is true or not, the news has been played to perfection by Red Bull even though they know that they would never take Alonso.

#135 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:35

Perhaps Vettel, like many, just thinks that Raikkonen possesses greater race craft than Alonso and Hamilton greater speed than Alonso.

So you think Vettel is looking for the best teammate he can get? Surely you know F1 better than that.

#136 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:36

Now that's some jumping at conclusions :D

It was clear from the BBC interview that Seb's main reason for preferring Kimi was not because he fears Alonso more, but that having Kimi as a teammate means that he has a good and fair teammate which whom he will have a good relationship.

Not clear, just how you interpreted it.

#137 fabr68

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:36

Only thing I'm scared about is Alonso having to blackmail the team, risking the WDC just because he can't take Vettel beating him, and then eventually losing it to Mercedes just because Alonso's a bad loser.


Nah, I think you and Sebastian are more scared about Alonso trashing Vettel and then having to mount the same drama Red Bull did with Webber. Multi-21 and all that BS...

#138 denthierry

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:37

:lol: This is riling up Ferrrari. When do you hear a driver having a contract with a team for the next three years being rumoured to be moving to another team? Domenicalli saying things like Alonso should work with the engineers and the team during this difficult time (as opposed to putting feelers out at the enemy camp). Irrespective of whether the news is true or not, the news has been played to perfection by Red Bull even though they know that they would never take Alonso.


Aaaaand i LOVE it!! :rotfl:

#139 apexpredator

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:38

I do think there is substance to this story, purely from the fact that it's translated from being a 'rumour' to a topic of discussion with Alonso, Vettel, Horner and Stefano commenting on the same day (without explicitly denying it)

The real question is how much of it is genuine and how much is just politics. Red Bull have their agenda, to put them in a better negotiation position with Kimi, who no doubt will be asking for a holy mother of grail wage. Alonso has his agenda, to put pressure on Ferrari to raise their game or risk losing him.

I don't see this materializing though, especially when 2014 is such an unknown, there's no guarantee RBR will produce a great car. Plus post-2014 is so engine-centric that it plays into Ferrari's strength. They're much more comfortable developing engines than they are fiddling with aerodynamics. Unless Alonso can see something that we can't, like their 2014 engine is crap.

Edited by apexpredator, 28 July 2013 - 19:40.


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#140 Briz

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:39

I'm not sure I like the prospect of Alonso at RB with Vettel... I would prefer Vettel going to Ferrari to join Alonso to be honest. At least if Vettel goes to Ferrari and manages to perform better, there will be nothing doubtful about it, if he loses, I doubt there will be much noise either. On the other hand if Alonso joins RBR I fear he, his fans and journalists will be summoning scandals and conspiracy theories out of nothing each time if/when he ends up behind Vettel. Other than that of course I would love to see how they compare when in same machinery.

#141 Smile17

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:39

The move is unlikely but not out of the question. This is F1 and a lot of unexpected things have happened in the past. For Alonso staying at Ferrari and winning another WDC will be worth a lot more than running to RB and taking another title. But Ferrari needs to hurry up and alter the political field that we are in at the moment (which clearly doesn't favour them). When Alonso/Santander signed that long term deal I knew for sure that they were eyeing something beyond 2013.

Alonso has been in F1 for a long time and knows whether there is a future for him at Ferrari or not, things can change very fast. Ferrari made a lot of false promises. I truly believe that a lot of people in the paddock already know who the 2014 rule changes are going to favour and what kind of secret agreements have been made. Let alone the political game plan behind the scenes, it's not only Newey that delivered RB so much success.

Edited by Smile17, 28 July 2013 - 19:41.


#142 Vesuvius

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:40

So you think Vettel is looking for the best teammate he can get? Surely you know F1 better than that.


it's clear what Vettel means...he said just couple of days ago that he wants a team mate that he will comealong with and works in harmony and a team mate that thinks about the team as well and not only himself. Vettel and Alonso are not very good friends, while he is with Kimi and he just stated he likes Kimi more as his team mate and wouldn't have problems to work with him.


#143 krobinson

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:40

I rate both Kimi and Alonso higher than Vettel, I am sure Vettel too is aware of how fast those two are too. He would prefer Ricciardo over those two, because he would be no threat.
Why Vettel would prefer Kimi over Alonso? That is easy. Kimi is not a politician and it would be easier to give him nr.2 treatment, whereas Alonso is a skilled politician who could get the team around him much better. Kimi is completely unskilled as a politician.

#144 2ms

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:40

Of course Alonso would like to driver for Red Bull. Everybody would. They're the most prestigious team in F1. The problem is Raikkonen is available.

#145 swerved

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:42

Nah, I think you and Sebastian are more scared about Alonso trashing Vettel and then having to mount the same drama Red Bull did with Webber. Multi-21 and all that BS...



Alonso wont be going to Red Bull, they'd never be able to convince Vettel to crash on purpse.


#146 scheivlak

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:43

Not clear, just how you interpreted it.

Well, I don't know if you've seen it but I think the completely relaxed way he said it -with a twinkle in his eyes- supports that interpretation.
It was like a direct and open invitation, he genuinely wants Kimi to come over to Red Bull and as such it was far more a pro-Kimi than an anti-Fernando statement.

#147 fabr68

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:44

Alonso wont be going to Red Bull, they'd never be able to convince Vettel to crash on purpse.


If Alonso trashes Vettel enough, they might convince him.

#148 krobinson

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:44

Alonso wont be going to Red Bull, they'd never be able to convince Vettel to crash on purpse.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso did to Vettel in equal cars the same he did to Piquet - destroy him on track.

#149 Der Pate

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:45

I don´t understand that thread! Doesn´t have Alonso a contract with Ferrari?

#150 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 19:45

it's clear what Vettel means...he said just couple of days ago that he wants a team mate that he will comealong with and works in harmony and a team mate that thinks about the team as well and not only himself. Vettel and Alonso are not very good friends, while he is with Kimi and he just stated he likes Kimi more as his team mate and wouldn't have problems to work with him.

So he wants somebody who will do what hes not willing to do? Anyways its not clear at all. Just one way way of interpreting it.