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Alonso under investigation ?


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#101 Coops3

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:28

That's basically it, the team themselves cannot send any control signals to the car.

Out of interest, when the DRS is disabled is it physically disabled or is the signal really just telling the drivers they cannot use it?


I don't know for certain, but I've always assumed it's physically disabled, otherwise wouldn't it say something like "DRS prohibited"?

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#102 Fontainebleau

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:29

That's basically it, the team themselves cannot send any control signals to the car.

Out of interest, when the DRS is disabled is it physically disabled or is the signal really just telling the drivers they cannot use it?

I understand that it is physically disabled, otherwise the explanation of the difference between qualy mode and race mode does not make sense (as in both cases the DRS would work exactly the same).

#103 Szoelloe

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:31

That's basically it, the team themselves cannot send any control signals to the car.

Out of interest, when the DRS is disabled is it physically disabled or is the signal really just telling the drivers they cannot use it?


It is disabled


#104 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:36

Why is it when a DRS system malfunctions to allow the driver to use it when he shouldn't be, it's always, always Alonso? This has to be at least the fourth time he had such an issue over the years. There has to be something to it that is not a coincidence.

#105 Coops3

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:36

I understand that it is physically disabled, otherwise the explanation of the difference between qualy mode and race mode does not make sense (as in both cases the DRS would work exactly the same).


I think he means when it's disabled by race control during the race. I guess the question is, when we get the message on the telly saying "DRS disabled", what specifically does that mean? Does it mean it's automatically disabled by race control and the driver's couldn't use it even if they wanted to?

#106 ardbeg

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 13:43

Guess you can look at it in this way:
The DRS in the cars are by default disabled. The gun is in closed holster, safety catch is on
When you come into a DRS zone, the holster is opened, you can pull the gun out. Guns safety catch is on
When Charlie enable DRS, the timing system that checks if a car is <1 s behind is enabled
If you are <1s behind, a signal is sent from race control releasing the safety catch
When you pass the DRS line, holster open and you can draw and shoot

In Hungary, Alonsos safety catch was held open and he could draw and shoot each time he passed the DRS line.

#107 repete

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 19:36

This is one occurrence from any team in 2 and half seasons, a knee jerk reaction is not required.

i think this is the second occurrence from just alonso this season, in Bahrain he opened his DRS WELL before the activation zone on the front strait (this was before it broke and stayed open). I think he also used it in China last year illegally.

#108 crespo

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 19:51

i think this is the second occurrence from just alonso this season, in Bahrain he opened his DRS WELL before the activation zone on the front strait (this was before it broke and stayed open). I think he also used it in China last year illegally.

On the flip side, he couldn't use it inside the actual DRS zones at all in China or Bahrain IIRC. I'm not sure it can be called an advantage, per se.

#109 Clatter

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 00:22

i think this is the second occurrence from just alonso this season, in Bahrain he opened his DRS WELL before the activation zone on the front strait (this was before it broke and stayed open). I think he also used it in China last year illegally.


That wasn't the same failure as the one being discussed.


#110 skyfolker

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:35

i think this is the second occurrence from just alonso this season, in Bahrain he opened his DRS WELL before the activation zone on the front strait (this was before it broke and stayed open). I think he also used it in China last year illegally.

That was China 2011 and this is this year's Bahrain.

#111 ardbeg

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:19

That was China 2011 and this is this year's Bahrain.

Seems like it's a habit rather than a mistake.

#112 Kimbo

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 14:47

i think this is the second occurrence from just alonso this season, in Bahrain he opened his DRS WELL before the activation zone on the front strait (this was before it broke and stayed open). I think he also used it in China last year illegally.


Do you have a video of this by any chance?

#113 Skinnyguy

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 14:49

Do you have a video of this by any chance?




#114 Kimbo

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 14:54


Thanks. Don't know if it was already broken by then or not.

#115 Skinnyguy

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 14:56

Thanks. Don't know if it was already broken by then or not.


It wasn´t broken. He closed it again down the straight to let Rosberg back pass, opened it again, and it still closed under braking into T1.

#116 ardbeg

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 14:57

Thanks. Don't know if it was already broken by then or not.

Interesting that he turned it off at the middle of the straight, than on again. That should not be possible.

#117 Skinnyguy

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 15:03

Interesting that he turned it off at the middle of the straight, than on again. That should not be possible.


Of course it is possible. Drivers have full control over it once they get in the zone and they are in the required conditions to use it.

They can close it manually when they find yellow flags in the middle of the DRS zone before it gets disabled by race control. Let´s not forget they needed to close it manually in practice and qualifying 2012 in the way into the corners without braking zone (like 130R).

#118 ardbeg

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 15:59

Of course it is possible. Drivers have full control over it once they get in the zone and they are in the required conditions to use it.

They can close it manually when they find yellow flags in the middle of the DRS zone before it gets disabled by race control. Let´s not forget they needed to close it manually in practice and qualifying 2012 in the way into the corners without braking zone (like 130R).

Well, according to the tech spec DRS should be deactivated by either the release of the button or by touching the brakes. There migh be a possibility that the system stays enabled, but I am under the impression that the DRS is "loaded" by the race control signal, therefore "fired" by the driver. But of course there is a possibility that there is a continous signal throughout the DRS zone.

In either case, Alonso activated his DRS seconds before Nico, who was ahead, so either Nico was very slow on the button or Alonso's DRS was working independently from any race control signals.

Edited by ardbeg, 01 August 2013 - 16:00.


#119 Skinnyguy

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 16:13

In either case, Alonso activated his DRS seconds before Nico, who was ahead, so either Nico was very slow on the button or Alonso's DRS was working independently from any race control signals.


It´s the second. Just check where DRS zone starts in Bahrain.

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#120 ardbeg

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 18:13

It´s the second. Just check where DRS zone starts in Bahrain.

He clearly gained an advantage. It is captured on film. Did he get a pealty? I do not recall? If not, why is nobody protesting? Tell me, I know you know the answer :)

Edited by ardbeg, 01 August 2013 - 18:13.


#121 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 19:08

i think this is the second occurrence from just alonso this season, in Bahrain he opened his DRS WELL before the activation zone on the front strait (this was before it broke and stayed open). I think he also used it in China last year illegally.


Back in Bahrain FIA had this problem with the new ECU which meant that they could not enable/disable the DRS remotely.
http://www.motorspor...e-in-melbourne/

They were therefore lenient with violations. As I said before in this thread, I'm pretty sure Alonso always pressed the button to cut down on mental load and reaction time. Normally, a disabled DRS would ignore his button press anyway, but it seems likely that this habit is difficult to control in cases of malfunction.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 01 August 2013 - 19:10.


#122 Skinnyguy

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 20:27

He clearly gained an advantage. It is captured on film. Did he get a pealty? I do not recall? If not, why is nobody protesting? Tell me, I know you know the answer :)


Yes he got an advantage. No he didn´t get a penalty. He got away with it because FIA failed to provide decent DRS control telemetry. Nobody was protesting because a couple of laps after that his race was ruined anyway.

Need any more info?

#123 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 16:45

I'm a long way from being 'nando's biggest fan, but can't point the finger at him on this one. You're going to get conditioned to pressing that button whenever it might work, regardless of if you think it will do anything.

That's where I am on this. Part of the rhythm of driving a circuit is most likely to do every lap what might work more often than you think. Where a driver ducks into the pits after the detection point, if he's not in front of you, you may not 'think' to do something, so do it anyway. I know that's how I would do it. If you do something automatically and without thinking it saves the higher thought processes for other more critical activities.

If on the odd occasion it works when it shouldn't, that's a bonus!