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Mid season form


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Poll: Mid season form (306 member(s) have cast votes)

Which driver performed best so far this season?

  1. Vettel (144 votes [47.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.06%

  2. Webber (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  3. Alonso (8 votes [2.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.61%

  4. Massa (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Button (3 votes [0.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  6. Pérez (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Räikkönen (66 votes [21.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.57%

  8. Grosjean (3 votes [0.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  9. Rosberg (3 votes [0.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  10. Hamilton (61 votes [19.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.93%

  11. Hülkenberg (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  12. Gutiérrez (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  13. Maldonado (3 votes [0.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  14. Bottas (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  15. di Resta (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  16. Ricciardo (2 votes [0.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.65%

  17. Sutil (3 votes [0.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  18. Vergne (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  19. Pic (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  20. Bianchi (4 votes [1.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.31%

Which car has been the fastest so far this season?

  1. Red Bull (206 votes [67.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 67.32%

  2. Ferrari (6 votes [1.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.96%

  3. Mercedes (84 votes [27.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.45%

  4. McLaren (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Lotus (3 votes [0.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  6. Force India (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Toro Rosso (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Sauber (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. Williams (2 votes [0.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.65%

  10. Caterham (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  11. Marussia (4 votes [1.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.31%

Which team has performed better?

  1. Red Bull (205 votes [66.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.99%

  2. Ferrari (5 votes [1.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.63%

  3. McLaren (2 votes [0.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.65%

  4. Mercedes (60 votes [19.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.61%

  5. Lotus (24 votes [7.84%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.84%

  6. Sauber (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Williams (2 votes [0.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.65%

  8. Toro Rosso (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  9. Force India (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  10. Caterham (1 votes [0.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.33%

  11. Marussia (5 votes [1.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.63%

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#101 mnmracer

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:26

Depends on the definition of unlucky. I agree that Seb's and Kimi's failures cost them in terms of the position they were at the point of failure in the race. However, what's the point of having a fast car when you aren't able to compete for the lead in the first place? Your race is compromised immediately and you are already playing catch up. Frequent niggling failures don't even give you the opportunity to challenge for WDC on a consistent basis each weekend.

It's fine to have some KERs problem during the race when you're out front but for that to happen in qualifying on a track that is hard to overtake you are screwed for one e.g. forget looking at a possible win, you won't even have the chance to. I'd rather have one or two failures in the lead or in a podium position a year rather than have frequent failures that put you on the back foot every w/e.

I don't see Martin Brundle saying 'If he didn't have bad luck, he'd have no luck at all' for Seb/Kimi whereas he has multiple times for Webber. Kimi definitely had problems during his McLaren days but on the whole hasn't had too many problems. I'd trust Brundle's opinion over yours any day.

The amount of luck is an easily quantifiable thing. If Brundle, along with you, doesn't know the numbers, that unknowingness doesn't chance said numbers.
Since 2009, in absolute numbers, Vettel and Webber have had roughly the same number of mechanical issues.

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#102 IlMuro

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:11

I don't see why Vettel is rated so highly. He's been excellent but so have all the other top drivers.

#103 OldSoldier2

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:16

I don't see why Vettel is rated so highly. He's been excellent but so have all the other top drivers.

Vettel has won the most races (4) thus far. That is the same amount as Alonso, Kimi, and Lewis combined.

#104 Konsta

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:17

I don't see why Vettel is rated so highly. He's been excellent but so have all the other top drivers.

Mark Webber is no slouch. SV has achieved 3 WDCs back-to-back while MW has not really challenged for the titles. Yes, RBR has produced very good cars for several years now but SV has exploited the potential to the fullest.

#105 IlMuro

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:19

Mark Webber is no slouch. SV has achieved 3 WDCs back-to-back while MW has not really challenged for the titles. Yes, RBR has produced very good cars for several years now but SV has exploited the potential to the fullest.


Thanks for that. I agree with what you say, but that is not really anything to do with what i wrote.

Edited by IlMuro, 12 August 2013 - 08:19.


#106 IlMuro

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:29

Vettel cannot be the best even though he has beaten everybody for the last four years.

You do realise that apart from Webber they don't drive the same cars?

#107 Thomas99

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:38

Mark Webber is no slouch. SV has achieved 3 WDCs back-to-back while MW has not really challenged for the titles. Yes, RBR has produced very good cars for several years now but SV has exploited the potential to the fullest.

Eh, Webber nearly won 2010 and the team gave him some pretty ****ed up treatment that season.



#108 MikeV1987

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:48

Vettel has been on his own level this season. I'd have to say Merc has the fastest car but RBR have been the best performers overall. Consistency wins championships.

Edited by MikeV1987, 12 August 2013 - 08:48.


#109 joshb

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:48

Vettel has won the most races (4) thus far. That is the same amount as Alonso, Kimi, and Lewis combined.


i'm hoping we can say the same with regard to titles come November!

#110 joshb

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:49

Eh, Webber nearly won 2010 and the team gave him some pretty ****ed up treatment that season.


at least they gave him a car which didn't break down whenever he was leading

#111 Thomas99

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:20

Vettel has been on his own level this season. I'd have to say Merc has the fastest car but RBR have been the best performers overall. Consistency wins championships.

Merc had races when their car was falling out of the points during the race.

#112 Thomas99

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:20

at least they gave him a car which didn't break down whenever he was leading

Thats true, they just told him to turn his engine down so Vettel could crash into him.

#113 Jimisgod

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:40

Vettel has been on his own level this season. I'd have to say Merc has the fastest car but RBR have been the best performers overall. Consistency wins championships.


Merc was a non event until Monaco. RBR has had the fastest car over the whole 10 races - race pace matching the Ferrari/Lotus and quali pace matching the Merc.

#114 bourbon

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:14

Sebastian has done a good job this season. The RBR has been good all season, but not great. Nonetheless, with Seb behind the wheel, it is often called the 'fastest' and 'best' anyhow and that is just a tribute to Sebastian's ability.

Merc has stepped up, but it is difficult to rate them without consideration of that test. So we'll wait on next year for them.

Lotus has also been pulling it out of the hat - at least in Kimi's trim.

#115 swerved

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 22:48

The F1 Times mid-season top ten.

 

10/ Ricciardo

9/   Sutil

8/   Button

7/   Hulkenberg

6/   DiResta

5/   Rosberg

4/   Hamilton

3/   Alonso

2/   Raikkonen

1/   Vettel.

 

http://www.f1times.c...s/display/07935



#116 rasul

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 23:52

Hmm, f1fanatic's mid-season rankings are quite different:

 

10. Romain Grosjean
9. Sergio Perez
8. Nico Hulkenberg
7. Mark Webber
6. Nico Rosberg
5. Jenson Button
4. Fernando Alonso
3. Lewis Hamilton
2. Kimi Raikkonen
1. Sebastian Vettel
 
Though everyone seems to agree on top 2 at least. 


#117 MP422

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 23:58

Hamilton, great qualifying performance and only really one mistake in malaysia driving into the Mclaren pit box. Adapting to a new team and matching the performance of Alonso and Raikkkonen. Took me a while to decide between him and Vettel but after the win in Hungary i believe he and merc are the story of 2013 so far.

 

Fastest car to mid season, RB9.

 

Best team RBR, just look at those pitstops  :eek:



#118 Shiroo

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:07

Hamilton, great qualifying performance and only really one mistake in malaysia driving into the Mclaren pit box. Adapting to a new team and matching the performance of Alonso and Raikkkonen. Took me a while to decide between him and Vettel but after the win in Hungary i believe he and merc are the story of 2013 so far.

 

Fastest car to mid season, RB9.

 

Best team RBR, just look at those pitstops  :eek:

 

Hamilton best driver of the season? 

 

bro-do-you-even-leviosa.jpg

HE was good, but Vettel, Raikkonen and Alonso were way better than him. No offence, but he has even less victories than Rosberg, and I rate Rosberg pretty high but not on the highest tier, yet.



#119 Thomas99

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:22

 

 

HE was good, but Vettel, Raikkonen and Alonso were way better than him. No offence, but he has even less victories than Rosberg, and I rate Rosberg pretty high but not on the highest tier, yet.

I can't take people seriously who keep saying this. Rosberg inherited one of those wins from Hamilton's Silverstone tyre failure.



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#120 OO7

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:32

I can't take people seriously who keep saying this. Rosberg inherited one of those wins from Hamilton's Silverstone tyre failure.

The drivers who have yet to record a victory this season have obviously been performing poorly, such as Bianchi, Riccardo, Bottas etc.



#121 Thomas99

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:06

The drivers who have yet to record a victory this season have obviously been performing poorly, such as Bianchi, Riccardo, Bottas etc.

Irrelevant to the point that Hamilton has performed far higher than Rosberg.



#122 OO7

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:17

Irrelevant to the point that Hamilton has performed far higher than Rosberg.

I am agreeing with you.  Although I believe Vettel has performed best so far, it's not because of the number of wins he has achieved.  Also Kimi has underperformed, by not getting the most out the car during qualification.  The Lotus has often been the fastest race (having the ability to make one stop less work on numerous occasions) car and while making up plenty of positions due a lowly grid slot makes for some excitement, it tends to mask what actually was a great result. 



#123 Shiroo

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:20

I am agreeing with you.  Although I believe Vettel has performed best so far, it's not because of the number of wins he has achieved.  Also Kimi has underperformed, by not getting the most out the car during qualification.  The Lotus has often been the fastest race (having the ability to make one stop less work on numerous occasions) car and while making up plenty of positions due a lowly grid slot makes for some excitement, it tends to mask what actually was a great result. 

 

Well he beat Romain 8-1 or so. Hardly underperformance quali wise. It's just RBR and Mercedes were always way faster than Lotuses so he simply couldn't reach them



#124 Cult

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:31

Well he beat Romain 8-1 or so. Hardly underperformance quali wise. It's just RBR and Mercedes were always way faster than Lotuses so he simply couldn't reach them

 

Romain has been struggling to adapt to the 2013 tyres, as soon as the 2012 kevlar belt tyres come into play he has been far stronger. Raikkonen has been good in qualifying so far but there were a number of times e.g. Bahrain (where he went slower in q3 than q2 and cost himself at least three places if not 4/5). It's safe to say that he's not been as good in qualifying as say Hamilton or Vettel, who with the odd exception have got everything out of the car.

 

I personally think Vettel has been the best, just. Followed by Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso and Rosberg.



#125 Lights

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:52

Romain has been struggling to adapt to the 2013 tyres, as soon as the 2012 kevlar belt tyres come into play he has been far stronger. Raikkonen has been good in qualifying so far but there were a number of times e.g. Bahrain (where he went slower in q3 than q2 and cost himself at least three places if not 4/5). It's safe to say that he's not been as good in qualifying as say Hamilton or Vettel, who with the odd exception have got everything out of the car.

 

I personally think Vettel has been the best, just. Followed by Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso and Rosberg.

What if in a Red Bull/Mercedes it's just easier to get through qualifying (driving on scrubbed tyres in Q2 for instance), and are able to save the best for last, while Raikkonen already had to get everything out of the car to get to Q3 seeing as his teammate failed to do so.



#126 Cult

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 13:02

What if in a Red Bull/Mercedes it's just easier to get through qualifying (driving on scrubbed tyres in Q2 for instance), and are able to save the best for last, while Raikkonen already had to get everything out of the car to get to Q3 seeing as his teammate failed to do so.

 

Romain had the pace to get through to Q3 as was evidenced by his Q1 lap; he went slower in Q2 due to mistakes he made on his quick lap so missed out by 0.06 seconds.

 

Obviously it's easier to get through to Q3 for the RB/Mercedes but it doesn't change the fact that they've been more consistent.



#127 Cult

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 13:15

This is a bit of evidence

 

Best overall times using best sectors:

 

Rosberg 1:32.250 (-) (0.08s lost)

Vettel 1:32.584 (-) (0.05s lost)

Alonso 1:32.663 (-) (0.00s lost)

Hamilton 1:32.762 (-) (no time lost)

Webber 1:32.975 (-) (0.1s lost)

Raikkonen 1:32.983 (DOWN 3) (0.34s lost)

Di Resta 1:33.146 (-) (0.09s lost)

Massa 1:33.207 (UP 2) (no time lost)

Grosjean 1:33.498 (DOWN 1) (0.26s lost)

Button 1:33.681 (UP 1) (0.02s lost)

 

If Raikkonen strung together his best three sectors in qualifying in Q3, he would have been 6th, not 9th. If I recall correctly he lost 2-3 tenths in the final sector by compromising his last corner.



#128 Lights

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 13:28

Note that I was also just speculating. Obviously I don't remember every detail of that session, I just quickly checked as I thought I remembered Grosjean not making it.

 

And I also think that it's a perception that drivers in the best cars are more consistent. It just looks that way. Because it's much easier to be more consistent in the best material. The faster the car, the more planted and easier to drive it usually is. Plus, little mistakes are harder to spot in qualifying as they simply have a larger error margin. Which also decreases the importance of a perfect lap and therefore takes off a part of the pressure.

So in my opinion I think it's really unfair to compare Kimi & Alonso in qualifying to for instance Vettel & Hamilton. Especially to argue things to be a 'fact'. While all of their cars have been quick at various stages this season, they each have different characteristics. How often has Webber not made Q3 compared to Grosjean for instance? It's simply too easy to criticize Kimi for not qualifying well enough when it's clear that the Lotus is far from pole position at most venues and that Kimi has done much better than Grosjean anyway.

 

Another example that just crossed my mind: Vettel confessing that his Q3 Monaco lap was messy, and the onboard showed that. Could've had pole, but still qualifies 3rd, and nobody cares. Kimi almost a second down in 5th, perhaps with a perfect lap. But who knows, because no one cares about how well someone did for P5.


Edited by Lights, 21 August 2013 - 13:30.


#129 OO7

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 15:05

Another example that just crossed my mind: Vettel confessing that his Q3 Monaco lap was messy, and the onboard showed that. Could've had pole, but still qualifies 3rd, and nobody cares. Kimi almost a second down in 5th, perhaps with a perfect lap. But who knows, because no one cares about how well someone did for P5.

:up:

Hence why driver of the day is usually some BS based on car competitiveness.



#130 Cult

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 19:27

Note that I was also just speculating. Obviously I don't remember every detail of that session, I just quickly checked as I thought I remembered Grosjean not making it.

 

And I also think that it's a perception that drivers in the best cars are more consistent. It just looks that way. Because it's much easier to be more consistent in the best material. The faster the car, the more planted and easier to drive it usually is. Plus, little mistakes are harder to spot in qualifying as they simply have a larger error margin. Which also decreases the importance of a perfect lap and therefore takes off a part of the pressure.

So in my opinion I think it's really unfair to compare Kimi & Alonso in qualifying to for instance Vettel & Hamilton. Especially to argue things to be a 'fact'. While all of their cars have been quick at various stages this season, they each have different characteristics. How often has Webber not made Q3 compared to Grosjean for instance? It's simply too easy to criticize Kimi for not qualifying well enough when it's clear that the Lotus is far from pole position at most venues and that Kimi has done much better than Grosjean anyway.

 

Another example that just crossed my mind: Vettel confessing that his Q3 Monaco lap was messy, and the onboard showed that. Could've had pole, but still qualifies 3rd, and nobody cares. Kimi almost a second down in 5th, perhaps with a perfect lap. But who knows, because no one cares about how well someone did for P5.

 

I do agree with you, it does work both ways though. A mistake made by drivers down the field is less easily noticed.

 

I've decided to do something similar as I did above with Bahrain for the six dry qualifying sessions. Button, Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Sutil, Hulkenberg and Massa are the seven best drivers at extracting performance on their ultimate lap on a time basis (in order). Button and Hamilton have been pretty much faultless and easily have the best results.

 

Hamilton, Hulkenberg and Perez are the only three drivers who have performed their best three sectors of qualifying on their final lap four times or more.

 

Gutierrez and Bottas have probably been the two most inconsistent qualifiers, with both not hooking up their best lap on five of six occasions. This is particularly suprising as both have gone out in q1 on multiple times. At least two of these times has cost Bottas a place in Q2.

 

One of the most costly mistake of the season was in fact Raikkonen's in Bahrain, costing him three places. This may have cost him the win, ultimately this could be the difference between a championship deficit of 38 and 24 points. Vettel and Rosberg both didn't execute in Hungary and cost themself a place, meaning Vettel should have been on pole and Rosberg 3rd. This was a huge error as the Red Bull would have probably won the race without this mistake.

 

When taking everything into account, across the season, you have to say Hamilton has been the best qualifying performer. Difficult to pick who's been best in the races; Hamilton's had Spain, Rosberg's had Hungary, Raikkonen's had Malaysia and Vettel's had Hungary. Alonso's been pretty great everywhere although he played a part in his Malaysia accident.

 

I think across both categories, Vettel has been marginally the best.