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LdM Not Happy With Alonso's Comments


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#51 kosmos

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:46

Pretty fair comment for me. I don't know where is the problem.


Why is fair to you?, as far as I know he said nothing bad about the team, the only thing he did in the
Spanish TV was commenting about the facts, others car more quick, we need to improve and that kind of stuff, he even said that he was sure to be in the title hunt till the end.

This is not neccessary, the only thing it does is add fuel to the fire, a president should know better, even if he is right, something that we don't know.

I'm on the phone, if is needed I will translate what he said in the spanish tv later.

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#52 ForzaGTR

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:48

I'm not a fan of the man himself, but I admire Alonso's driving and I must say LDM is way out of order with these comments. On a large number of occasions in the last 4 years, Alonso has dragged an inferior Ferrari into positions no one thought possible, whilst at the same time his team mate was usually nowhere to be seen. Alonso has spared Ferrari's blushes many times whilst being extremely patient in the wait for a car to rival Red Bull. Alonso does not deserve a public dressing down by LDM.



#53 David M. Kane

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:48

Good on Fred. :up: He deserves better equipment. Luca needs to get over himself...

#54 Massa

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:50

Why is fair to you?, as far as I know he said nothing bad about the team, the only thing he did in the
Spanish TV was commenting about the facts, others car more quick, we need to improve and that kind of stuff, he even said that he was sure to be in the title hunt till the end.

This is not neccessary, the only thing it does is add fuel to the fire, a president should know better, even if he is right, something that we don't know.

I'm on the phone, if is needed I will translate what he said in the spanish tv later.



If Alonso really said that i want a RB9 for his birthday, while two days ago his management was in talk with Horner, i don't think it was fair by Alonso and LDM comment was necessary.

#55 Sin

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:50

I still don't know which Alonso comments those are about, did he talk any different about Ferrari in Hungary than he did before anywhere?

#56 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:50

Perhaps Alonso blasting every time against the team and inferior car is getting on some Italians nerves? It is not all their fault and Alonso seems to be not on his top game. He did loose the 2012 championship by himself. He was getting passed by Massa left and right on more than one occasion in the second half of the season. He had a massive points advantage before Spa and he lost it all.

Alonso is also part of the team and a bit responsible for developing it due to his feedback. Looks like it isn't helping much... Perhaps he should stop blaming the car for everything gone wrong to him.

#57 PurpleHam

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:51

Alonso has every right to move on to a better seat, 4 seasons with Ferrari and they are no closer to giving him a WDC than they were when he first joined.

Drivers have to look out for number 1 first, teams soon get rid if they are not doing the job, it's dog eat dog.

#58 fabr68

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:55

During the 1996-1999 years how many times did you heard Schumacher argue against the team in public?


As many times as Alonso has.

#59 Markn93

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:55

A timely tweet:

Fernando Alonso ‏@alo_oficial 1m
Día fantástico de cumpleaños ! Gracias a todoooos!! Feliz!! ;)))

Fantastic birthday!!! Thanks to all..!!!! Happy!!

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#60 kosmos

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:55

If Alonso really said that i want a RB9 for his birthday, while two days ago his management was in talk with Horner, i don't think it was fair by Alonso and LDM comment was necessary.



Certo si riferiva alle frasi in cui lo spagnolo aveva dichiarato che come regalo di compleanno gli sarebbe piaciuto avere una Red Bull

I see no quotes, so maybe is BS, out of context or it was a joke.

#61 ali.unal

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:56

I still don't know which Alonso comments those are about, did he talk any different about Ferrari in Hungary than he did before anywhere?

http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=6374965

#62 seltaeb

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:57

I'm very surprised Ferrari would make comments like this, publicly, about Alonso, no matter what he did or said. If anything, Fernando has greatly flattered the car the past 3 seasons. Look at where Felipe has been. What would people be saying about the Ferrari the past handful of years without Fernando dragging it into some good results?

Just think, for one second, about who Ferrari could get to replace Alonso if he did leave.

Jenson? Hulkenberg? Who else?

Lewis, Nico, and Vettel all seem happy where they are.

#63 P123

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:57

I don't think this would have been aired in public if not for the Alonso to Red Bull rumours which sprang up. I never heard Alonso say anything particularly contentious apart from stating that Ferrari need to improve which is fairly bleedin' obvious! It does suggest a degree of friction in the relationship.

#64 kimster89

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:58

Hehe this tweet is like saying to LdM: I dont care, talk to the hand :)

Or maybe he is happy coz the negotiations with RBR are goin well?

#65 bsrf1

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 17:58

I some how thought that his comments about F2012 uncalled for and downplaying its race pace (at least in the latter half of the season). I think team has fedup with his continuous public talk about the car and need for the improvements. However, he is right this time around and team thinks otherwise. Wondering what Ferrari's PR doing these days? Everyone knows talking to media does not solve any of the problems rather it affects the morale of the team. First Alonso on Spanish TV and Ferrari on official website, very sad indeed.

#66 fabr68

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:01

Today's news should be about Ferrari's recovery plan after Hungary.

Instead, we hear Ferrari is unhappy with Alonso and throws him under the bus in public :down:

I guess is LdM is very happy with Massa and Domenicalli.

#67 kosmos

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:03

Hehe this tweet is like saying to LdM: I dont care, talk to the hand :)

Or maybe he is happy coz the negotiations with RBR are goin well?



His tweet was online way before the article, hours before.

#68 SpaMaster

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:03

Fernando was asked after the race what he wanted for his birthday. He replied "Red Bull RB9"


http://autosprint.co...ta-alonso/9252/

Wow, tempers flaring!

#69 falalalalaland

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:04

This just got reported on Autosport proper.

Don't you just love it when the claws come out :rotfl:
Nice way to start the mid-season break.

#70 st99

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:04

Certo si riferiva alle frasi in cui lo spagnolo aveva dichiarato che come regalo di compleanno gli sarebbe piaciuto avere una Red Bull

I see no quotes, so maybe is BS, out of context or it was a joke.


I don't think Montezemolo would react like this if that was a joke. But when did he said that? Not to the Spanish Tv.

#71 P123

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:04

I mean, Hamilton openly went to speak to Red Bull in person at Montreal, then revealed a load of McLaren telemetry to the world and I didn't see McLaren's website sandblasting him.

So this would suggest that something a bit more substantial than this is up at Ferrari.


McLaren's website doesn't have an opinion piece written by a petulant child. That's the difference. There were a few within McLaren who were fairly unhappy, as stated by Whitmarsh at the time.

This outburst from LdM suggests that the Alonso to Red Bull rumour has some substance to it.

#72 exmayol

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:05

Just think, for one second, about who Ferrari could get to replace Alonso if he did leave.

Jenson? Hulkenberg? Who else?


I think 3rd coming of MSC is not far fetched ;)

#73 Ikebana

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:05

Good on Fred. :up: He deserves better equipment. Luca needs to get over himself...


Kind of how I see it.

I still have faith in Ferrari. But if after the summer they are still going backwards, it's over for me. I may be called "a worse fan" because I don't support a team under all circumstances but as an Alonso fan I feel kind of frustrated to see a driver I personally consider to be the best of the grid to get wasted in a team and a car that void the will of a driver to achieve something.

Perhaps Alonso blasting every time against the team and inferior car is getting on some Italians nerves? It is not all their fault and Alonso seems to be not on his top game. He did loose the 2012 championship by himself. He was getting passed by Massa left and right on more than one occasion in the second half of the season. He had a massive points advantage before Spa and he lost it all.

Alonso is also part of the team and a bit responsible for developing it due to his feedback. Looks like it isn't helping much... Perhaps he should stop blaming the car for everything gone wrong to him.


Yes, Ferrari is not performing because Alonso doesn't give proper feedback.

Edited by Ikebana, 29 July 2013 - 18:08.


#74 swerved

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:07

This just got reported on Autosport proper.

Don't you just love it when the claws come out :rotfl:
Nice way to start the mid-season break.



The claws, the toys, everything could come out! Its just a shame we dont have a race next week :lol:

I think LdM is right though, no driver is bigger than the team, as we heard following the race in Malaysia.


#75 exmayol

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:07

On a serious note, I can't blame FA with talks to RBR, assuming they are true. He's not getting any younger. Some say MSC talked to McLaren in 1998... I personally FA remains calm and eventually succeeds with Ferrari.

Edited by exmayol, 29 July 2013 - 18:08.


#76 seltaeb

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:08

Kind of how I see it.

I still have faith in Ferrari. But if after the summer they are still going backwards, it's over for me. I may be called "a worse fan" because I don't support a team under all circumstances but as an Alonso fan I feel kind of frustrated to see a driver I personally consider to be the best of the grid to get wasted in a team and a car that void the will of a driver to achieve something.


+1.

#77 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:09

Where are Alonso's supposed declarations aguing agains his team? All he did was not commenting about those RB rumour, because in his own words "summer break is very long for journalists".

He has declared lots of times he is happy at Ferrari, and he will stay with them until his contract ends and probably longer... So, what's LdM angry about? He should start tweaking other's ears, Stefano's for example.


I was wondering the same thing, I don't remember to have seen a single comment by Alonso this weekend (or the previous ones) which could prompt such a response.

Edit: Ah, saw the Autosprint thing now. Well if Ferrari had given Alonso the fastest car once in four years, he would not have a reason to want an RB9. He probably should not have said that, but IMHO the reaction is a bit over the top, LdM has lots of reasons to thank Alonso for the support in these 4 years.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 29 July 2013 - 18:15.


#78 schubacca

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:23

On the contrary, I think this will bring about some positive things. Alonso will see the light and realize that he doesn't come ahead of Ferrari.

You might recall that Schumacher tried to put himself above the team when he acted like he wasn't ready to come back to the Malaysia GP after he broke his leg. He didn't want any part of helping Irvine winning a championship ahead of him at Ferrari. I recall that LdM called MS and reminded him who the boss was and obligated him to come back to race. Things didn't turn out too badly at all after that. Ferrari and MS went on to win 11 consecutive/concurrent championships (WDC & WCC) over the next 6 seasons. Ferrari happy, MS happy, everybody happy.


Please.

MS was the perfect team player. When his engine blew in Japan 2006, what did he do?

He shook the hands of his mechanics and team.

But just in case you forgot. MS in 2010-2012 at Mercedes showed how much class the gentleman had concerning equipment that was clearly not up to the task....

The naughty side of FA is rearing its head again. For $30 million, the guy should keep quiet publically.

#79 st99

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:25

Alonso's interview for La Gazzetta dello Sport:

Q: Domani fa 32 anni. Che macchina vuole in regalo?
A: Quella degli altri.

Translated:
-Tomorrow it's your 32nd birthday, which car do you want?
-The other's car.


I get Alonso is tired of not having the fastest car but this isn't the best thing to say about your team.

Edited by st99, 29 July 2013 - 18:26.


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#80 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:26

Please.

MS was the perfect team player. When his engine blew in Japan 2006, what did he do?

He shook the hands of his mechanics and team.


I'm pretty sure Alonso would be calmer had he won a few WDCs with Ferrari. Totally incomparable situations.

#81 Gintonious

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:31

I think it is a bit big for Ferrari to tell Alonso to watch what he says, considering what he has said about not being quick enough being actually TRUE!

#82 garoidb

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:31

I doubt Newey and Brawn will ever work together. Newey is the kind of character who insists of being left alone to do his work (which was part of the reason he wanted out of McLaren) and I can't see Brawn taking that approach.


I believe they have actually worked at the same team in the past, at Beatrice/FORCE/Haas or whatever it was called. Somebody had a good eye for talent. Obviously, Brawn was not in charge though, so your point stands.

Edited by garoidb, 29 July 2013 - 18:32.


#83 Lotusseven

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:35

His tweet was online way before the article, hours before.


No, it was not if you talking about this tweet.


#84 SR388

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:42

What did it take for Prost to get kicked off the team in 91?

Mind you Prost was a free agent.

One does not criticize Ferrari.

#85 Markn93

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:43

Clear message to Ferrari from Alonso in this tweet - https://twitter.com/...0041088/photo/1

#86 Owen

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:43

Sounds like they are both in need of a three week break.

#87 swerved

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:43

Yes, something is very wrong with this Ferrari to go public with this, just not right. :down: When Vettel goes crazy they sort this things behind closed doors...

Also, what were Alonso's comments that made Montezemolo angry? Since Alonso joined Ferrari he did nothing but support the team whole the time, even when they give him a car that is not capable of winning for 3 years.



Well, not quite since he joined.


“Words are useless. We talk a lot of Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays about new pieces we bring to each track, but there have been many Fridays on which the words were for nothing.”

http://grandprix247....little-updates/



Then there was the supposed incident following the race in India where he apparently took exception to something Pat Fry had said.

http://www.foxsports...25#.Ufa28b2_26M




Its not the first time though that LdM has said something, though a little more subtle than todays quotes.



“He’s right that there aren’t any “phenomenons” in circulation. But first Fernando should win the world title and then we will certainly not put anyone alongside him who would bother him"

http://www.jamesalle...ho-bothers-him/


#88 schubacca

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:46

I'm pretty sure Alonso would be calmer had he won a few WDCs with Ferrari. Totally incomparable situations.


Perhaps,

But MS won 2X with Benetton and waited 4 years at Ferrari before winning another WDC....

I think that FA is utterly brilliant as a F1 driver.

However, he should be the team player...

#89 garoidb

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:48

What did it take for Prost to get kicked off the team in 91?

Mind you Prost was a free agent.

One does not criticize Ferrari.


They must have thought they would be OK with Alesi, whose star was still very high at that time.* They won't be thinking that about Massa, I would guess. To let Alonso go, they would need to be getting Vettel or Kimi (or Hamilton but that is virtually impossible). I don't see Kimi going back there, so unless they can get Vettel in a swap, they need to keep Alonso IMO.

*Edit: If only they had Schumacher on their radar! Then it would have been a good move.

Edited by garoidb, 29 July 2013 - 18:50.


#90 SpaMaster

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:48

Clear message to Ferrari from Alonso in this tweet - https://twitter.com/...0041088/photo/1

As some said, this is bringing out the worst in Alonso. LdM's comment was never going to be taken well by Alonso.

#91 F1Champion

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:49

I think Alonso has a right to be a little pissed off this season. The car has fallen away and it is still poor in qualifying. Although Ferrari can't be entirely blamed, he lost twice in 2010 and 2012 in only the last race. A strategy blunder that shouldn't of happened in 2010 and the unbelievable luck of Vettel to race and collect points after being hit hard and not have any real damage. I guess Alonso is still feeling like Ferrari didn't react enough for the tail end of last season, he just needed more development from the team and Red Bull in the last 4-5 races brought a car that was much faster and gave Vettel the tools to win.

#92 jjcale

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:51

FA is out of order. The management have to consider the impact of his actions on the morale of the other members of the team and this was a predictable response... even if a statement like this is a bit bizzare:

As usual, Montezemolo did not mince his words when it came to asking the team to step up a gear. Each one of the engineers present received a “gift” of a knife, along with an invitation – metaphorical up to a point – to put it between their teeth when thinking how to tackle the second half of the season.


http://formula1.ferr...i-doesnt-sit-me

#93 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:52

Perhaps,

But MS won 2X with Benetton and waited 4 years at Ferrari before winning another WDC....


True, but he was younger, and Alonso has waited for 7 years by now (own fault or not) and his time is running out.

I think that FA is utterly brilliant as a F1 driver.
However, he should be the team player...


Yeah, but he has been for most of 3.5 years in not-so-great cars. It's inevitable that there are strains in such a situation, on both sides. I mean, I don't think Vettel would even be at RB today had the cars been switched between Ferrari and RB during 2010-13. Edit: And who would say he's wrong?

More edit: And anyway, if you cite one event - the 2006 blowup - for MS, there would be many to choose from for Alonso too, when he was magnanimous after team problems. IIRC, once when a mechanic didn't put the wheel on correctly, Alonso said in an interview that he didn't stop in the perfect spot. If that had been MS it would be an eternal example for exemplary behavior.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 29 July 2013 - 19:00.


#94 schubacca

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 18:58

True, but he was younger, and Alonso has waited for 7 years by now (own fault or not) and his time is running out.



Yeah, but he has been for most of 3.5 years in not-so-great cars. It's inevitable that there are strains in such a situation, on both sides. I mean, I don't think Vettel would even be at RB today had the cars been switched between Ferrari and RB during 2010-13. Edit: And who would say he's wrong?



Yep, but I think that his 2 WDCs are worth more than SV's 3....;)

#95 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 19:03

Kind of how I see it.

I still have faith in Ferrari. But if after the summer they are still going backwards, it's over for me. I may be called "a worse fan" because I don't support a team under all circumstances but as an Alonso fan I feel kind of frustrated to see a driver I personally consider to be the best of the grid to get wasted in a team and a car that void the will of a driver to achieve something.



Yes, Ferrari is not performing because Alonso doesn't give proper feedback.


I was not stating it as black and white as you do. When you are in your fourth year in a team, as a driver you also need to bring the team forward. The car is not it's best, but it isn't 100% Ferrari blame and 0% Alonso blame.

I think Alonso has a right to be a little pissed off this season. The car has fallen away and it is still poor in qualifying. Although Ferrari can't be entirely blamed, he lost twice in 2010 and 2012 in only the last race. A strategy blunder that shouldn't of happened in 2010 and the unbelievable luck of Vettel to race and collect points after being hit hard and not have any real damage. I guess Alonso is still feeling like Ferrari didn't react enough for the tail end of last season, he just needed more development from the team and Red Bull in the last 4-5 races brought a car that was much faster and gave Vettel the tools to win.

2010: was a wrong call, but you won't lose the championship in the last race.
2012: saw Alonso with a nice head start from Spa onwards. But in Spa he was hit by Crashjean, in Japan he eliminated himself by clipping his tire. Massa was outperforming him in the second part of last season and Alonso was not on his finest form. The championship was his for the taking, but he couldn't.


#96 ZZei

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 19:04

True, but he was younger, and Alonso has waited for 7 years by now (own fault or not) and his time is running out.



Yeah, but he has been for most of 3.5 years in not-so-great cars. It's inevitable that there are strains in such a situation, on both sides. I mean, I don't think Vettel would even be at RB today had the cars been switched between Ferrari and RB during 2010-13. Edit: And who would say he's wrong?

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. The ferrari has been a title contender 2 times in 2010 and 2012. Alonsos start of the season 2010 wasnt exactly jawdropping though the teams strategy was shitty in the last race. Last season the ferraris racepace was always up there though they didnt qualify as well (bar maybe 2 first races when they were lost). It would be a different thing if they were actually in the midfield aka the F60.

#97 Tauhid

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 19:04

If Alonso joked that he wanted a RB9 for his birthday gift, then that was a bit of a bad joke on his part, especially with the ill-timing of his manager talking with Red Bull for a seat...you really do not say anything funny about Ferrari, this isn't just any other team. Besides if Alonso does intend to join Red Bull, he may win a WDC sooner than he'd be able to do so at Ferrari. But Ferrari would have found the perfect replacement in Vettel by that time as well.

I understand Alonso's frustration and it's only human to act like he may have done but you really don't joke with Ferrari. BTW, Stefano may have enough assurances from Luca, but I am fed up with his leadership. Mercedes has taken in 4/5 of the very best technical geniuses in Formula 1 right under the nose of Ferrari. Roles have suddenly changed, it's almost like Mercedes is acting like Real Madrid, buying out all the talents in the industry aiming for all-out glory whereas Ferrari is left with taking up the scraps...

Edited by Tauhid, 29 July 2013 - 19:06.


#98 Lotusseven

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 19:05

Whatever happens between LdM and Alonso, I hope Alonso is always welcome back to his old team in Enstone currently called Lotus F1 Team.

#99 fabr68

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 19:06

Clear message to Ferrari from Alonso in this tweet - https://twitter.com/...0041088/photo/1


Clear as mud

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#100 hotstickyslick

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 19:10

I was not stating it as black and white as you do. When you are in your fourth year in a team, as a driver you also need to bring the team forward. The car is not it's best, but it isn't 100% Ferrari blame and 0% Alonso blame.

Rubbish. If a team isn't motivated, then they shouldn't be where they are.

2010: was a wrong call, but you won't lose the championship in the last race.
2012: saw Alonso with a nice head start from Spa onwards. But in Spa he was hit by Crashjean, in Japan he eliminated himself by clipping his tire. Massa was outperforming him in the second part of last season and Alonso was not on his finest form. The championship was his for the taking, but he couldn't.

Massa was outperforming? On what planet exactly? Ferrari and Alonso were beaten by the champions, it was never his for the taking.