19 replies to this topic

[GS1]

As someone who has followed F1 since 1994, (after Ayrton Senna passed away). The minnows have always cried about cash position and the top teams in the sport have done well financially. Like Bernie says: 'Welcome to the Piranha Club'. (Hope he is found not guilty on the bribery charge-he lost Slavica and $US 800 mil in the divorce)

[pingu666]

i dont remmber so many house ads and blank cars in the past.

[spacekid]

I believe 'welcome to the pirhana club' was Ron Dennis's welcome to Eddie Jordan - probably the most plain speaking utterance Ron ever made in F1.

No doubt in commercial terms F1 is in very good shape. It has high grossing TV deals broadcasting to literally hundreds of thousands of people in some countries with pay TV, and many circuits in far away lands where the number of f***s the locals do not have to give could be measured in gigawatts, throwing millions to CVC to have their desolate concrete run off areas broadcast around the world.

Cash flow into the sport is not a problem.

I have never known F1 to lack soul so much as it does now. But thats only my perspective/problem.

Edited by spacekid, 31 July 2013 - 21:42.

[GS1]

As long as Bernie is CEO, F1 will have a soul. Lauda as Non-Executive Chairman of the Silver Arrows also adds soul.

[BlackCat]

i'd say the entertainment is in good shape, there is sellable tv-time, there are 3rd world countries eager to pay Bernie money for nothing and so on.

as for sport... have not seen much of it in f1 in last decades

[swerved]

I suppose this news might relevant here. Statement from Philip Morris.


"Because of the economic downturn I am compelled to cancel the event Wrooom 2014. Unfortunately, in this time of crisis the costs of the event are no longer sustainable, therefore we are forced to delete it from our activities in 2014. "


http://www.motoblog....na-di-campiglio

[DampMongoose]

I believe 'welcome to the pirhana club' was Ron Dennis's welcome to Eddie Jordan - probably the most plain speaking utterance Ron ever made in F1.

Yes it was Ron that said that although he must have been having an off day I would have expected something more like...

RON: "Edward, as an aspiring, emulous, concomitant antagonist in our frequently byzantine affiliation I would like to extend congenial discourse and contribute our cognition that soliciting of monetary funding may prove laborious to a fledgling entity!"

Eddie: "Mega!"

[GS1]

I stand corrected. It was Ron Dennis, when Flavio Briatore signed Micheal Schumacher

[Shambolic]

As someone who has followed F1 since 1994, (after Ayrton Senna passed away). The minnows have always cried about cash position and the top teams in the sport have done well financially. Like Bernie says: 'Welcome to the Piranha Club'. (Hope he is found not guilty on the bribery charge-he lost Slavica and $US 800 mil in the divorce)

F1 in 1994 had 14 teams. Some thrived, some struggled and went under.

F1 in 2013 has 11. One of the front running teams of recent times is constantly up for sale, and there's frequent reports as to its desperate financial state. A successful midfield team appears to only have a future if it can shoehorn an adolescent paydriver into a seat in the next few months. Two teams at the back of the grid look far from certain to survive long term. A long standing midfield team is mostly funded by its owner's business ventures, some of which are not doing at all well. This gives cause for concern for that team. A once front running team has fizzled into obscurity, and mostly survives thanks to benevolent dictator cash in exchange for selling a seat.

In fact, at present I would say the teams looking at all solvent, and stable, are: Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull and Torro Rosso. But TR is only healthy for as long as a fizzy drinks maker chooses to run a second, generally unsuccessful team. Red Bull might stay around for the medium to long term, but ultimately the team is a blend of a rich man's hobby, and a global marketing exercise. Mercedes make not so subtle threats about pulling out every time there's opportunity to do so (each and every minute hint of corruption in F1 is met with Mercedes reminding everyone they're obliged to withdraw if the sport isn't morally pure..).

To have five moderately stable teams, in other words ten cars reasonably likely to remain on the grid, is not "Good Shape". Because not only is the rest of the grid shaky, there's little to no sign of new teams, or people looking to buy existing teams. Whilst Bernie might have made a handful of rich men even richer, whilst making himself vastly wealthy, the sport has most certainly suffered. Rocketing costs of participating are only part of the problem, if a part much in need of actually tackling. Something is rotten in F1, when there are more teams dropping out than joining. When countries are investing hundreds of millions in building venues, only to find their calendar slot taken away years before they can recoup their costs.

I've not even touched upon the move to pay tv, removing F1 from the sponsor viewing masses in exchange for a short term cash boost in Bernie's pocket.

[smitten]

Rocketing costs of participating are only part of the problem, if a part much in need of actually tackling. Something is rotten in F1, when there are more teams dropping out than joining.

The entry hurdles are so high, the system (monetary) is so rigged in favour of the front running teams, and of course most forms of innovation have been comprehensively smothered.

It still works and I still love to watch it, but you are right and it sometimes seems like a house of cards.

[ExFlagMan]

Too all that now add the fact that one of the much vaunted new locations for 2014 has failed to meet the application deadline for a race in 2014 - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109130 - I guess that BCE will bung the FIA a few million to allow a late application if necessary.

[DampMongoose]

Too all that now add the fact that one of the much vaunted new locations for 2014 has failed to meet the application deadline for a race in 2014 - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109130 - I guess that BCE will bung the FIA a few million to allow a late application if necessary.

He won't be in a position to if the German legal system has its way...

I'd say the sport/show is in the balance, failure to deliver and merc and engines will go compete against Porsche at le mans, red bull could leave if the new engine regs don't deliver for them and Dietrich plays elsewhere which would be 4 more cars gone... Who's going to join with the current financial burden for new teams? With that and circuits that can't pay to host, the pathetic tyre situation and manipulated 'racing' we have I'd say it's far from good shape!

Edited by DampMongoose, 01 August 2013 - 18:53.

[BRG]

As someone who has followed F1 since 1994, (after Ayrton Senna passed away). The minnows have always cried about cash position and the top teams in the sport have done well financially. Like Bernie says: 'Welcome to the Piranha Club'. (Hope he is found not guilty on the bribery charge-he lost Slavica and $US 800 mil in the divorce)

This message has come to you from FOM & CVC, owners of the Formula One^TM World Championship. Remember, we appreciate your custom and we know that you don't have a choice.

[DampMongoose]

This message has come to you from FOM & CVC, owners of the Formula One^TM World Championship. Remember, we appreciate your custom and we know that you don't have a choice.

didn't know Bernie was on this forum... Waiting for the "desolate cash rich desert circuits are the best aren't they" thread next!

[spacekid]

didn't know Bernie was on this forum... Waiting for the "desolate cash rich desert circuits are the best aren't they" thread next!

We already have the 'F1 without DRS passes was boring' thread, so why not?

[PayasYouRace]

F1 in 1994 had 14 teams. Some thrived, some struggled and went under.

F1 in 2013 has 11. One of the front running teams of recent times is constantly up for sale, and there's frequent reports as to its desperate financial state. A successful midfield team appears to only have a future if it can shoehorn an adolescent paydriver into a seat in the next few months. Two teams at the back of the grid look far from certain to survive long term. A long standing midfield team is mostly funded by its owner's business ventures, some of which are not doing at all well. This gives cause for concern for that team. A once front running team has fizzled into obscurity, and mostly survives thanks to benevolent dictator cash in exchange for selling a seat.

In fact, at present I would say the teams looking at all solvent, and stable, are: Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull and Torro Rosso. But TR is only healthy for as long as a fizzy drinks maker chooses to run a second, generally unsuccessful team. Red Bull might stay around for the medium to long term, but ultimately the team is a blend of a rich man's hobby, and a global marketing exercise. Mercedes make not so subtle threats about pulling out every time there's opportunity to do so (each and every minute hint of corruption in F1 is met with Mercedes reminding everyone they're obliged to withdraw if the sport isn't morally pure..).

To have five moderately stable teams, in other words ten cars reasonably likely to remain on the grid, is not "Good Shape". Because not only is the rest of the grid shaky, there's little to no sign of new teams, or people looking to buy existing teams. Whilst Bernie might have made a handful of rich men even richer, whilst making himself vastly wealthy, the sport has most certainly suffered. Rocketing costs of participating are only part of the problem, if a part much in need of actually tackling. Something is rotten in F1, when there are more teams dropping out than joining. When countries are investing hundreds of millions in building venues, only to find their calendar slot taken away years before they can recoup their costs.

I've not even touched upon the move to pay tv, removing F1 from the sponsor viewing masses in exchange for a short term cash boost in Bernie's pocket.

We could say much of the same things about 1994.

Tyrrell were struggling along with a sponsorless car but for Ukyo Katayama's Mild Seven money. Lotus and Larrousse were just about dead. Minardi had only survived due to a merger with Scuderia Italia that winter. Obviously Simtek and Pacific were propping up the rear of the grid with basically no money to speak of. Ligier was essentially Benetton's Toro Rosso at the time to, as Flavio had his hand in both.

"F1 in 1994 had 14 teams. Some thrived, some struggled and went under."

"F1 in 2013 has 11." Some will thrive, some struggle and some will go under. It's just how it goes.

Back then the calendar was far from stable either, with European Grands Prix being parachuted in to replace failed GPs (Jerez instead of Buenos Aires in 1994). The cars were pretty dangerous, as shown by multiple injuries and deaths that year. The FIA added in new regulations to improve "the show" (refuelling, 12 lap limit in qualifying, soon to be only Saturday qualifying) and many consider the FIA to have been particularly meddling in that year's title fight. Many circuits had very slow sections or chicanes put in, thankfully most reverted to more reasonable forms.

So it's all fine and dandy to list today's F1 problems, but there have always been similar problems, and F1 always manages to plod along in some form or another.

[jjcale]

This message has come to you from FOM & CVC, owners of the Formula One^TM World Championship. Remember, we appreciate your custom and we know that you don't have a choice.

Dont knock it .... Gotta get that Float going!

[PretentiousBread]

didn't know Bernie was on this forum... Waiting for the "desolate cash rich desert circuits are the best aren't they" thread next!

[Sakae]

Open wheel racing such as an F1 series has healthy potential, waiting to be exploited. Is F1 healthy? No, I don’t think so due to several factors. Regulatory system I think needs revamping from ground up (track testing has to come back), technical direction is off course (dependency on aero is excessive, and “curing” it with tire compounds is crazy, never mind artificial stimuli such as DRS). The business model appears shaky most of all. Instability of racing locations is deplorable, selection of new (financially weak) entrants is eyebrow rising, and ultimately absence of CA suggests further undercurrents in ranks discontent. I am puzzled over fan-base which puts up with a season with underdeveloped cars, whilst paying full price of admission. (My 2 cents).

[P123]

didn't know Bernie was on this forum... Waiting for the "desolate cash rich desert circuits are the best aren't they" thread next!

"No fans in the grandstands. This is Forumula 1."